Natsuki

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There's nothing wrong with some characters being given unrestricted access to the teleportation grid. But pretending the addition leaves the character an undiluted natural concept character is ridiculous-- it reveals a basic misunderstanding about what a natural concept character is. If such a character were still a good natural concept, so would be Iron Man.



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Iron Man's "powers" come from his suit fully, he can't use Power Blasts without it, he can't use robotic strength without it, etc. To have a single "Power" come from a device doesn't dilute Natural Concept character's in a game such as CoX.

Like I had said, Manticore doesn't rely on technology giving his archery skills, yah he uses some high-tech arrows but he still has to deliver those arrows through his own skill and training. He has only one power outside of his Natural Concept, which is something you can not compare Iron Man to.

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And I *especially* don't get why you'd take offense at this.

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If you had decided to use Infrequent, or Isolated, or Rare, or Uncommon (Or some other word like these), and describe -why- not everyone would have access to a single power/device outside of their concept (Refering to Teleport and Flight). I wouldn't have taken offense.

In the CoX world, should every single Natural Concept character have a power outside of their concept? I would definitely say no.
In the CoX world, would all Natural Concept character's be unable to get access to one power outside of their concept? Again, I would definitely say no.

So, that tells me some powers would be more Uncommon to Natural Concept character's (Such as Teleportation and Flight), but to say they are Nonviable is going a bit too far.

Remember, in the CoX world, Nemesis created his army of robots back in 1945. Paragon City has all of the war-walls (thanks to the Rikti). Unlike our world, Technology is far more potent and prolific in CoX (as is Magic). Which is why I take offense to Teleport/Flight as being nonviable for a Natural Concept character.

If you want some natural purist who never groups with non-Natural's, then perhaps I could see Teleport/Flight as nonviable.

You weren't talking about Manticore, but you were dismissing the whole Natural Concept with Teleportation as "Nonviable". I disagree. There is a precedent, i.e. Manticore, that shows it -is- a viable Natural Concept to take Teleportation. As you mentioned, in the comics (which I haven't read all of them, in their wrappings still), Manticore doesn't use his Teleportation to move around in-combat, its solely used to get him around to where he is needed.

I see nothing wrong with any Natural Concept character, to be given access to Friend and Self Teleportation via the medical system by the Freedom Corps due to lack of "Powered" travel. I guess what it is, is that I'm taking offense at your choice of the word "Nonviable" when there's been a precedent.

I know if I was some Techy, and I had a friend who is "Natural Concept", I would definitely try and make a device he could use to help him keep up with my more sophisticated devices. Ya know, something like Manticore's device which if I recall properly was given to him by Positron (Could be mistaken on this part, but I do recall that his device to access the medical teleportation system came from one of the other Freedom Phalanx).

I mean, its great to have a Natural Concept character, but the thing is Paragon City has so many Tech, and Magic characters I would find it unlikely a Natural Concept would not make a friend who could give him some device, or magic item that gave him -one- power outside of his Natural Concept, and this wouldn't break the Natural Concept. Heck, it could become part of more background, you could explain away your travel power as a gift of one of your in-game friends.


SageGaspar, no matter how "high-tech" his arrows are, its his true-aim that makes him Natural. Just because I have some new-fangled Explosive Arrow doesn't mean I have more than a snow ball's chance in hell of getting a direct hit with it. IF he had some kind of high-tech bow where it just reads his thoughts and does the aiming for him, then ya I could tend towards him being Tech instead, but since he actually needs to hone his skills, I can't.

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Nonviable Movement Sets:
Teleportation
Teleportation is sometimes mentioned by fans of natural concept characters as plausible via the "hospital grid teleportation" theory. This is a good theory, as far as it goes, and as an organic explanation of a unique character's powers, it works great. It's a poor fit to natural concept characters, however. The original definition of the Natural origin captured this concept well: technology that's still secret or guarded is something that belongs in the purview of a seperate kind of character: the Tech character. Teleportation technology, like for example nuclear fusion technology, relies not just on 'gear,' but on relatively exotic physics and carefully *controlled* technology.

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So, you're telling Manticore he shouldn't be a Natural, and instead should have been Technology... Solely because he was given access to the hospital grid teleportation, even though the rest of him is 100% Natural Archery?

Hey, just wanted to say thank you so very much. I had mentioned that I finally decided on my Dominator, she's up to 14th level already, Mind/Ice (Your guide helped me with the Ice powers due to their very similar nature's). Been loving every minute of playing her, and, I haven't been tempted to play my Brutes! Eek, hehe.

Every Saturday (yesterday that is) I have an RL friend over. I didn't notice I was doing this at all until he started to comment on it "Alright, what villainous thing are you doing NOW?". Since I've started this Dominator I've been having fits of villainous laughter IRL.

Now, there is one thing I just remembered I wanted to ask ya about, increasing the KB Magnitude on Levitate. Have you had any experience with KB Enhancers in Levitate and PvP? Or do you find Power Boosts KB Enhancement (though not always on) is all you needed?

<Nods> Yah, I was able to hit with Dominate and such, but that could have just been lucky hits. I'm just a little suspect of the Prima Guide. Though, its not like I could get many Dominate's off, and they had little effect of course.

If Dispersion really is giving Psi Defense now, then that would be why. I just never realized they gave it Def(All). Thought it was all but Psi. So, I'll retract my question for now due to inadequate testing, but it'll be something I'll try out sometime, see if Dispersion has no holes at all, or if its the Single Target mez's that bypass Positional Defense only.

I'll keep you posted on any findings I come across.

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Then the information I got mine from was incorrect. Whoever it was that had assault and said it was total damage lied. I may have to make a new version of this guide in a couple of months @.@ I noticed some big typos that I didn't catch in the draft because they were last minute additions.

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I love your guide, great information really helped me with my Dominator build and understanding the intricacies I was unable to grasp with my Dom's during the RV event (I was able to hold Scrappers several times, I just didn't understand exactly how, now I do).

I do have one little dispute, you say Mass Hypnosis checks Psy Defense only. Have you tested this recently? Or is it a change since I7 ?(Mighta missed it, been on a hiatus)

Because during the RV event, at one point the Heros created like 12 FF's (some Def, some Con). I grinned, thinking they were weak to Psy, I forget if I had Domination up at the time or not, but I fired Mass Hypnosis on them and saw "Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect Deflect" =/

Otherwise, the single target Mind mez's do seem to check Psy only, and ignore any Ranged Positional Defense.

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SS and Stone's attacks have the same BI, rchg, and end cost if you drop Jab and Heavy mallet. Although Footstomp is stronger, as well as faster than Tremor.

SM is more bursty, due to animation time differences.

Flavor doesn't account for balance issues. If you want SS to maintain the flavor by keeping Rage unique, buff Stone's dmg (not by 80%, maybe 10-15%) as a base to overcome Smashing 'penalty'

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Uhhh, dropping Jab and Heavy Mallet, is stupid...

SupStr that doesn't take Jab, has to take Boxing instead. And ignoring Heavy Mallet is ignoring a LOT of damage.

Yes, Tremor is weaker than Footstomp. I do think Tremor needs a boost, but the rest of the Stonemelee set does NOT need a change just because SS gets Rage.

I played a SupStr/EnergyAura brute with my friends StoneMelee/EnergyAura brute. My friend didn't take Buildup, and I ran perma-Rage.

To be brutally honest, my friend was killing enemies faster than me. Even though I maintained a higher Fury level at all times than he could. Why? Because of the differences of him having that Heavy Mallet, and his Seismic hitting an enemy and finishing it while my Knockout Blow is still animating.

After making that SupStr Brute, I'll never again make another SupStr brute, the amount of damage they can pump out is too low even with Rage. I find my Firemelee brutes to have a significantly faster kill rate, and from that a higher survival rate. I definitely feel that SupStr is more for Tankers than it is for Brutes. A tanker has to hit to get use of their inherent, brutes don't. In fact, brutes want higher BI value attacks that animate quick, rather than low BI attacks with one high BI that takes forever to animate.

It's as Geombear says. SS's attacks are all lower BI. Rage makes it so that they're "on par" damage wise with other sets that do NOT use their Buildup. Once you factor in Buildup for Stonemelee, then Stonemelee is doing FAR more damage than SS can hope to deal. In addition, Stonemelees high damage single target, Seismic Smash, recharges faster than SS's Knockout Blow, and Seismic takes 1/3rd the time to cast compared to Knockout Blow.

Rage is a balancing factor for SS. So much so, if you make a SupStr char, and skip Rage, you're gimping yourself. Whereas, Stonemelees can skip Buildup and they're just as effective if not more so than SupStr who TAKE Rage.

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If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?

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My guess is that he meant to reply to the unedited version of your post, which quoted Tanker tough as 10%, which matches up with the ranged mod for tanker resists. :P

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Haha, oh. Actually that was just a typo. Hit 0 instead of 5. >.<


But still, the point of it is that Masterminds, and Defenders get more from Tough than Scrappers/Brutes o.O And the Defender APP would get more effect than a Scrappers secondary. O.o Just seems really wierd to me.

EDIT:
With the bodyguard feature, using Tough and an APP resist shield. A mastermind can get effectively 88.75% resist to lethal/smash so long as all their pets are out.

How do I figure this?

6 Pets on Bodyguard means the MM takes 2/8 of the damage dealt to him. Which is 25% of the damage. (A 75% resist to ALL damage types)

Tough is 15%, and the Soul Mastery shield should be 30% S/L Resist and 20% Toxic/Negative Resist. So before slots, thats 45% S/L resist which is applying to the 25% damage taken thanks to bodyguard which cuts it in half pretty much! Which can be slotted up higher. Anyways.

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Just one thing to note about Dark Regeneration vs Healing Flames, Dark Regen requires mobs around you and a to-hit roll. Yeah, 1 mob seems to be enough to bring you up quite a ways (about 1/3 of your hp bar?) vs Healing Flames' mediocre heal, but it's something to consider. Also consider the endurance cost of Dark Regen. Healing Flames may take heavy recharge slotting to bring it close to Dark Regen's recharge time, but Dark Regen takes quite a bit of endurance cost reduction enhancements to make it useable without bringing down your toggles. With the toggle drain from the other DA toggles, it wasn't something I used unless I REALLY needed it prior to stamina. I'm sure all that's been brought up already, probably stated more succinctly than I have, but I must have missed it.
Not saying HF couldn't use a boost, but these are things to consider if you're going to compare the two powers directly against each other.

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Ok, let me put it this way then.

My Dark Armor brutes/scrappers, take Dark Regeneration, use it, love it, and no worries at all really on Endurance usage. I6 lowered its cost substantially, 3 end SO's is plenty, and more oft than not a buildup like power is available right with Dark Regen.

My Fire Armor brutes, I SKIP HEALING FLAMES, and I take Aid Other then Aid Self and use that over Healing Flames. I can't imagine using the brokenly stupid healing flames after using aid self. I can time aid self between dot ticks with ease (practice makes perfect, and I had aid other/self on my Trick Arrow defender for 38+ levels)

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Agreed. I've PM'd Cuppa and Castle about it and am just asking for a straight up answer : "Are we going to see a fix for the base heal value of Healing Flames or not?"

EDIT : Per a PM from Castle, I believe there are further changes forthcoming. Do not deluge Castle with PM's.

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Specifically, I said "One step at a time." The animation time was, technically, a bug I could fix (a number in the animation file was set too high.) The value of the heal on Healing Flames is a balance issue, which has to be dealt with as a team. So, we're looking at it, but no change is currently being made.

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A BALANCE ISSUE!? What the hell. You told us it was bug before. It used to be a 25% heal a long time ago to my understanding as well.

I'm sorry, but this sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. No one really uses Burn anymore, yah there is Fiery Embrace but thats so late for Brutes/Tankers that it shouldn't be a real issue. And then Dark Armor surpasses Fire Armor in everything, it can go zero to full hp two times as often as Fire Armor can heal for 17.5%... Oh, and then Dark Armor has a Stealth power, it has an AoE Fear, and an AoE Disorient. So, how in the hell can it be a BALANCE ISSUE to fix a bug in Healing Flames!? I mean, yeesh. The way it sounds currently is just ridiculously insane. As other posters said, get someone in here to explain why its a balance issue. 'cause we ain't seeing it.

_Castle_ I really do love ya and all, but the dev choices going on with Healing Flames at 17.5% from 25% going from bug, to being "balanced"!? o.O It makes no sense at all. <Sighs> Ok, I'm done ranting. Its just not making sense to me. >.<

EDIT: And yes, as Liquid says, where are my manners as well lol. Thanks for taking the time to post, look up things, and actually fix balance issues and bugs for us. =)

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M Res Dmg 0.070 0.100 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.100 0.085 0.075
R Res Dmg 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
</pre><hr />

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Ok, I gotta say. WHOA.

The ramifications of the AT mods just hit me like twenty tons of bricks!

Scrapper tough = 11.25%
DEFENDER tough = 15%
Tanker tough = 15%


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You're reading the wrong line. Tough is a self-effect, so it's in the (M) category.

Scrapper Tough = 11.25%
Defender Tough = 15%
Controller Tough = 15%
Tanker Tough = 15%

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If I'm reading the wrong line, then why did you regurgitate the numbers I stated?

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Here's some more numbers for your math-crunching pleasure. These are the modifier values for melee and ranged buffs and debuffs, by AT. A good example of how you can see these in action is with the Aim power, which is shared by Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors: The damage buff scale for Aim is 5.0, and the to-hit buff scale is 8.0, so using the table below, we get the following values:

Blaster Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.125 = 0.625, or 62.5%
Defender Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.10 = 0.50 or 50%
Corruptor Aim damage buff = 5.0 * 0.085 = 0.425 or 42.5%

Blaster Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.075 = 0.60 or 60%
Defender Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.10 = 0.80 or 80%
Corruptor Aim to-hit buff = 8.0 * 0.085 = 0.68 or 68%

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> AT BUFF/DEBUFF MODS (M = Melee, R = Ranged)
Modifier Blaster Control Defende Scrappe Tanker Peacebr Warshad Brute Stalker Masterm Dominat Corrupt
M Buff Def 0.070 0.090 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.090 0.085 0.085
R Buff Def 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075

M Buff Dam 0.125 0.080 0.100 0.125 0.100 0.090 0.090 0.100 0.100 0.080 0.085 0.085
R Buff Dam 0.070 0.100 0.125 0.070 0.070 0.090 0.090 0.070 0.070 0.075 0.075 0.100

M Buff ToHit 0.075 0.080 0.100 0.100 0.100 0.090 0.090 0.100 0.100 0.080 0.085 0.085
R Buff ToHit 0.070 0.100 0.125 0.070 0.070 0.090 0.090 0.070 0.070 0.075 0.075 0.100

M DeBuff ToHit -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R DeBuff ToHit -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100

M Debuff Dam -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R Debuff Dam -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100
R Debuff Dmg -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100

M Debuff Def -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.075 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100 -0.100 -0.075
R Debuff Def -0.070 -0.100 -0.125 -0.070 -0.070 -0.090 -0.090 -0.070 -0.070 -0.075 -0.075 -0.100

M Res Dmg 0.070 0.100 0.100 0.075 0.100 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.100 0.085 0.075
R Res Dmg 0.065 0.075 0.100 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075
</pre><hr />

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Ok, I gotta say. WHOA.

The ramifications of the AT mods just hit me like twenty tons of bricks!

Scrapper tough = 11.25%
DEFENDER tough = 15%
Tanker tough = 15%


Scrapper Dark Embrace = 22.5%
I don't have the Defender epic. But following that.
Defender Dark Embrace = 30%!!!!

Holy crap. o.O

Now, what made this even worse to me atleast. Masterminds, for the villain side, has the highest M DEf, and M Res. They get the absolute most out of Defense powers that effect only themselves. And they have the absolute lowest HP! O.o whoa. My mind is numb just trying to understand why they chose this.

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/bind SHIFT+R "local Hahaha $target, you've just been healed by a BLASTER! $$ powexec_name Aid Other" (this gets a lot of comments)


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I just might have to do that with my Brute. Fire/Fire Brute, uses a device that channels the power of the Phoenix. (When Healing Flames is fix'd, going to have that and Aid Self/Other).


As far as the Interrupt time, I think the base interrupt time is around 2 seconds. When you slot in Int reducers, the Green Numbers appear sooner in the animation time.

Now, as I said, I'm a Fire/Fire brute (most recent experience with Aid Other/Self), which means I have no defense at all, and I'm tanking 99.9% of the time (Blazing Aura ). And I've been able to not only heal myself, but also heal other melees all the while tanking a spawn meant for 6 players. (The one time I was on a team of 8, it didn't last long, and was full of idiots).

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Just tested Poisonous Ray for Dominators, and here is the info:

Test Subject: Bone Spider Commando
Color: White
Level: 41
Type: Minion

Player: Gialli
Level: 41
AT: Dominator
Power Sets: Ice/Psi
Power Used: Subdue

Before PR:
Subdue Damage on Screen: 104
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 103.59

After PR
Subdue Damage on Screen: 123
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 123.01

That makes Poisonous Ray about 16.3 debuff to resist, but it still needs to be tested some more.

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Isn't debuff def/resis less for dominators for ranged attacks less compared to melee attacks? Probably want to test it with melee attack to get the accurate value.

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Would not make a difference. The game doesn't differentiate between "melee" and "ranged" damage, only for Defense typing. A Resist Debuff will make a target take exactly that much more damage, no matter how much resist they have (Excepting when they're above the resist cap, but thats rare and special cases).

It is most likely a 16.5% Resist Debuff (The game does some wierd rounding). Why do I say this? Take a look at the Power Standardization guide. (PS: The Dominator Res Debuff Scalar is 0.075, Defender value for the curious is 0.100) 16.3% = 0.163 / 0.075 = 2.17333 This isn't a clean number. But, a 2.2 scalar value IS a clean number and likely one that the devs use. So, 2.2 * 0.075 = 0.165 = 16.5%

um, if they nerf Glue Arrow, they'd have to nerf Ice Slick (in three power sets), and several other autohit slows.

Glue Arrow really really needs to stay the way it is now. It finally gives Trick Arrow the potency to be atleast somewhat decent when compared to the other Defender sets.

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but ko blow and footstomp roxxor

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They definitely do rock, when a player can use them properly.

The Bruiser doesn't use them properly, hence I get better dps rate without KO Blow and Footstomp. It just gives me too many issues to be worth using the lv 32 upgrade.

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Yeah but the assault bot and others actually use their powers.

Without a specific petcom for the Bruiser to go to a location next to his target he likes to stay in the back and rely on the sub-par hurl boulder every 10 seconds; he melees willingly about 5% of the time, where he actually does damage.

So yes, without micromanging his location every fight, he does subpar damage.

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Thats the way it is with every melee pet. Practice with ninjas if you need to get used to it.

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I actually found that I get much higher dps out of just not using the lv 32 upgrade power on the Bruiser.

Even when sending him into melee, he likes to through the boulder at point blank range. The other two powers he gains for the lv 32, is KO Blow (25 sec recharge), and Footstomp ( 20 sec Recharge, AoE). I use the Bruiser as a single target killer, and having him cycle Jab, Punch, Haymaker (From 1st upgrade), and occasionally using Handclap (1st upgrade) makes him much better at killing a tough boss than having access to the extra lv 32 upgrades (Especially due to the hurling AI).

Some may say, well, what about fliers? Not a problem for me, got fast recycling -Fly that also does -Recharge and Slow.

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I hate bursting bubbles, especialy with this fun set. However I'd like to point out that Flash Arrow's acc debuff is laughable at best. Smoke Grenade has the same debuff value, defenders are slightly more effective with flash arrow then blasters are with smoke grenade (6.5% for flash arrow and 5% for smoke grenade) only because of the AT modifyer. In I7 it will be autohit however.

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Autohit or not, I still love the Fash Arrow debuff. Even more in I7 due to critter accuracy scaling.

Fully slotted, it'll cut 10% tohit from all enemies. Even bosses. This results in taking 20% less hits. While some may argue this is low, but when you stack it up with the other debuffs of TA, and other players defenses it is actually rather mighty solely due to how many it can hit with ease.
EDIT: A great way to think of Flash Arrow, is that its the same as taking all three of the Defense passives of Super Reflex, and giving it to the entire group! SR Scrappers don't skip the passives, they use 'em to stack with the rest of the set. Flash Arrow is the exact same way, it may be a 'minor' debuff, but it amplifies with the rest of the set.

Glue Arrow in I7 can be used every single spawn. (In pvp, I've been able to drop Glue Arrow on a target twice before the first let him run away). Stack Glue Arrow with Flash Arrow and it's really powerful.

Dark Miasma may have a higher ToHit debuff, but, it has no -Recharge, and it has no -Defense.

Radiation Emission may also have a higher ToHit debuff, but, its debuffs effect far fewer enemies than Trick Arrows "slightly weaker" debuffs. In addition, Rad doesn't have a single target Hold, nor can it keep enemies under Slow effects continously. The "Anchor" System is also a disadvantage in PvP. You will typically only hit a single enemy with it, and they'll most likely run away 'causing the anchor to detoggle.

Another huge advantage to Trick Arrow, is Entangling Arrow. -jump, and -fly is a HUGE benefit. Something that Rad totally lacks, and Dark Miasma only has a "ground" power. Which won't ground a flier whos 80 ft up in the air sniping you (Whereas, Entangling Arrow will drop them quickly).

In I7, Oil Slick is INCREDIBLY reliable. I haven't tested to see if Flaming Arrow lits on a reliable rate, but I do know that Firebreath, Electricty Attacks, Radiation, etc lit it at a 100% rate in I7. Combined with all the slows and -Jump/-Fly, Oil Slick can do incredible damage in PvE and PvP.

So, I'd definitely say on a good team, Trick Arrow is comparable to other Defender sets, it just requires different strategies. Combine a Trick Arrow defender with any other Defender Set, and the TA amplifies EVERYTHING that Defender set brings. More so than stacking that same Defender set. Trick Arrow, between their many -Def, -Res, and Slow powers brings an unrivaled killing rate especially when you bring in a reliable Oil Slick.

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Accuracy inspirations are essentially ToHit buffs right?

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That is correct. Currently, for Players, there are only "Two" forms of Accuracy bonuses (As opposed to ToHit which everything else falls into). The Base Accuracy of a Power, and Accuracy Enhancements.

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(Base Acc of power + Inherent ToHit modifier + Enhancements) = y


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This part is actually wrong. Arcanaville has been chatting closely with a few helpful dev's, and the base Acc of a power is multiplied into Enhancements. So, Archery powers have a 1.15 base acc, and with an SO of 33.3% thats 1.15 * 1.333 = 1.532 which is multiplied into the final ToHit.

Just wanted to let those who use it know, the Catalyst 6.5 Omega Drivers are now available. (The author skipped Cat 6.4 due to RL issues lol)

Good guide. However, as of currently, the Trick Arrow set (despite having to draw a weapon) does not benefit from an accuracy bonus.

Entangling Arrow has a 20% Accuracy Bonus, but the rest of the set has no bonus at all.

With Issue7, Entangling Arrow will gain a Power Recharge Slow, Glue Arrow and Ice Arrow already have these. Which just leaves the lack of -Regeneration. Which, I think as a pure debuff set it should gain -Regeneration on Acid Arrow, or something.

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Five simple words to live by, as a Trickster: You. Are. A. Debuff. Machine.

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QFT

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After having tested Thugs finally here is my opinion. Bruiser kills the set for me. The Punks and Arsonist are great as is. The Enforcers are the stars of the set imo. Bruiser just seems odd. Gameplay wise, and graphically. Almost all of my damage comes from the Enforcers and Arsonist, with the aid of the Punks. Which usually leads to my Enforcers dying first. Even before my Tier 1 guys.

As mentioned already the Bruiser has range problems. To be effective he must melee. At range he will Hurl a boulder what seems like every half hour. He doesnt run to melee on his own. When he does get into melee range he is decent... decent. Graphically he just doesnt suit my tastes at all. Hes supposed to be this big bulky bruiser thug dude, and he is shorter than my Enforcers. His attire is also lacking. Compared to the awesome fully upgraded Enforcers and the nice detail on the Arsonist, heck even the fully upgraded Punks look like more thought was put into their appearance.

Anyway, just my opinion! I likely wont play Thugs on live, but they do have some neat things. Enforcers rule, probly my favorite Tier 2 henchmen. Bruiser needs an overhaul.

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I have to agree on the Bruiser. The real problem, is Hurl which is granted from the lv 32 upgraded (Along with Knockout blow and Footstomp). I've started to NOT upgrade my bruiser with the lv 32 upgrade, 'cause I want to use him as a tank damnit! And without Hurl hes even better at dps, tanking, and well, everything.

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They aren't going to remove debt from the zone. I don't think they can actually do it that way anyways.

Debt is given by NPCs defeating you. Not for where you are. We don't get debt in PvP normally because we fight other PCs.

Probably a *better* idea would be that the Signature Hero/Villains don't give debt, as they are fairly overwhelming (and defeating them for XP is very laughable.)

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I would say a better idea is to just get rid of Debt completely.

The time spent going to hospital, running back to mission/wherever you died, and in PvP zones having to use your rest as well. Bah, debt does not improve a damned thing in this game. Death Penalties have never made an improvement to games (Aside from having to run back to where you died).