MrDead

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So, Champions Online, anyone?


What? I had to say it.

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I dunno about CO but L4D is good for a bit til some of the others hit.Smooshin zombie face relieves aggressions!!!

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don't forget one shotting the witch

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still havent done that

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I havent oneshotted the witch either and I want toooooooo!! Itsa BADGE!! How you doooo eeet?

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Shoot her point blank in the face with the shotgun as soon as she starts to stand up.

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I just looked at your reg date....youve been here a long time for the amount of hatred your harbor towards your fellow CoH players lol.

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oh it's not just CoH players. Also for the record I agree with everything you just said. I'm not a big fan of the 'it's just a game line'

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What's your deal then? I really am curious why you're so singular of scope and bitter.

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Suffice it to say I've had a long, hard, and not entirely pleasant life. I've been on these games as long as it's been possible and I've seen all this come and go plenty of times.

Most of you have already decided who and what I am, so none of my life matters anyway and I'm comfortable with that.

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I just looked at your reg date....youve been here a long time for the amount of hatred your harbor towards your fellow CoH players lol.

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oh it's not just CoH players. Also for the record I agree with everything you just said. I'm not a big fan of the 'it's just a game line'

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All I have to say to this is... and? People will step up, there will always be community leaders, there will always be new people etc.

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you forgot that there will always be self centered d-bags

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Oh good point. Yes I'll still be here too.

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A couple of observations:

I don't care what Mr Dead's resume is, he clearly has no understanding of how critical community is to the success of this or for that matter, any, MMO. He strongly implies that long time loyal customers who are central and highly visible members of the community leaving is of little concern as long as their are new people to replace them. Anyone who knows anything about business, let alone the MMO industry, knows this is pure garbage. Existing costumers are valuable because you do not have to expend additional resources to generate revenue from them. Attracting new customers is expensive and resource consuming. The general rule of thumb in business is that it takes $10 of new business to replace $1 of existing business. Long time existing costumers are even more valuable because they have proven willing to stick with your company or product and each have generated substantial revenue for you (a single 60 month vet in this game is worth a bare minimum of $750 in revenue over that time span). Long term existing costumers who are community leaders are pure gold to an MMO franchise, and are worth much more to that business than just the revenue their accounts generate. These players are pivotal in creating and building the community or sense therof, that is critical to any MMO's success. Players who feel a part of a community are more active and subscribe longer on average than those that don't.

Anyone who has followed the Justice forums for any significant length of time should regard Kat's lengthy post in this thread as a red flag in and of itself. Kat has been here since the beginning and been active both ingame and on the forums for the entire 5 years this game has been live. Yet in all that time, Kat has deliberately avoided becoming involved in heated discussions or heavily debated issues on the forums, preferring to take a positive albeit detached position on virtually all such matters. This is the longest post I've ever seen her make. I happen to agree with just about every she says in it, but even if I didn't, merely knowing her past history and posting habits would be enough to give me pause and consider her post as a red flag of the gravity of this situation.

Finally, a word to Mr Dead directly: It is true that your 15 bucks gives you exactly the same right to post here as anyone else. However your ignorance of, and obvious disrespect towards, the norms and established members of this community who were here before you has destroyed your credibility here. Having the right to speak in an online forum counts for little if no one has any respect for the poster. It is yelling gibberish in an empty stadium and is about as useful or meaningful.

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All I have to say to this is... and? People will step up, there will always be community leaders, there will always be new people etc. The games not gonna crumble because you take your ball and go home.

To the me part... I think I'll be able to sleep at night.

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of course you do, but what merc is saying is no one gives a poop about your opinion.

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Lemme just double check here... yep don't care...

And as much as the focus on me is flattering back to the topic at hand even slightly?

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Actually I called him a troll if you look at his post history you will see why i did so.

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Aww, it followed me. You're so cute! You want a treat? C'mere.. c'mere...

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This is her home and she's always here.

I doubt you'd be followed for any reason, unless its by stray cats attracted by the smell of fish.

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Her home? She's virtual? That's just silly.

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I guess the metaphor is lost on you.

NP, I'll elaborate. Philly is a well known and liked (mostly?) by everyone on both the Justice Forums and on the server. The idea of her "following" you to the thread (in her "home") is a stretch and frankly, a little insulting.

Does that clear it up?

Normally I don't butt in to these types of forum debates but Philly is a good person who has contributed much to the Justice server and deserves respect. Can the same be said of you?

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Um, your opinion is noted and dismissed. I didn't start this, she did. I have exactly ($15 a month worth) as much right to be here and post my opinion as she does. Exactly.

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Actually I called him a troll if you look at his post history you will see why i did so.

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Aww, it followed me. You're so cute! You want a treat? C'mere.. c'mere...

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This is her home and she's always here.

I doubt you'd be followed for any reason, unless its by stray cats attracted by the smell of fish.

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Her home? She's virtual? That's just silly.

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Actually I called him a troll if you look at his post history you will see why i did so.

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Aww, it followed me. You're so cute! You want a treat? C'mere.. c'mere...

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Just thought I'd throw in as part of the customer base I don't feel ANY of that. I don't feel treated like garbage. I don't play with anyone that does... I haven't been hurt, maligned, dis'd or anything else by any changes or anything Posi's said or done.

People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.

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Next time they will come after you...

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I sincerely doubt it, but if they did I'd know it was coming.

Also I'll state without backing it up with ANY facts most of the old MMO's have taken similar just as harsh stances and punishments. Several of them also happen to still be around.

UO, Everquest, just to name the two that leap to mind. Even WoW I beleive.

Also, I'll just say we get new players all the time and leave it at that.

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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.

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I HAVE to know what a stastic is ....

I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?

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It's like a statistic, but it tastes like candy. True story. Apparently I'm not a 'forumite' but a 'troll' according to the regulars. So I'm safe.

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I don't think you're a troll, I just think you're wrong. Of course I don't know you very well, but I'm sure that'll change. I also think that maybe you've spent enough time in QA/CS in the gaming world to become jaded and bitter, almost resenting the group of people from whom you collect your paycheck.

But then you think we're wrong too, which is fine.

I gotta say, though, with all honesty, I really hope I never end up working on a game where you're in CS or QA. And that's based solely on the things you've said in this thread. I'm sure you're a nice fella, but you're probably a nightmare for the average end-user gamer.

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Hey that's all so totally.. er.. true. In my defense I'm a nightmare for the dev's and producers too though.

Edit: I forgot, they'd never put me on the same side of the building as CS.

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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.

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I HAVE to know what a stastic is ....

I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?

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It's like a statistic, but it tastes like candy. True story. Apparently I'm not a 'forumite' but a 'troll' according to the regulars. So I'm safe.

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Try disabling desktop composition.

Right click your City shortcut
Select 'Properties'
Select the 'Compatibility' tab
Click the box beside 'Disable desktop composition'

That helps some people with crashing in vista...

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that didn't work, any other ideas?

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Erm, nope. I got nothin. That worked for me when I briefly ran Vista...

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LOOK AT ME!

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What are we looking for?

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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.

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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.

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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.

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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?

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Keep in mind, a large number of this person's previous posts were in a thread "Stopping Farming", where he seems to blame "teh ebil farmers" for all that is wrong with the game.

Seems to me, he has now moved to a new target: The Ebil Marketeer.

Once farming and marketeering is stopped, all will be well within the game world, purple recipes will flow like water, and the skies will rain candy gumdrops. Oh, and everyone gets a magic pony too.

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I don't have a problem with marketeers.. though people keep saying that... and the OP asked if anybody thought some of the behavior was exploitative. I answered him.

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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.

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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.

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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.

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Where did you come from and why are you trolling the market board?

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Who are you and why do you think I have to explain myself to you?

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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.

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Well, now you're simply displaying ignorance of levelling speeds and/or how to efficiently and non-exploitively to play the game.

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It was kind of a lighthearted example of how I feel, but you go there. Keep em commin.

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LHF has posted a position, and rather well I think. Unfortunately, I am sure that his thread will devolve into a big flame war between those who agree with that position, and the response we have already seen:

The gist of that response, as articulated by one poster, is, "I don't care about your opinion, and I don't think most other people do either."

That response seems to encapsulate to some degree the position of the powers that be on this whole issue, or at least what their position appears to be to many who are involved in this whole big mess. I think that alone is the bases for much of the frustration.

Let’s start from the beginning…my position is this: I don’t want people to leave. The only reason I play this game is because of the community. The more people who are here, the more fun the game is for me. I would hope most players agree with this. I am sure the Devs do also.

At the basic level, I agree that the Devs must do something about the farming. Not because I care what someone else wants to do with their time to have fun, but quite simply because it had all gotten too easy, and I agree with that article someone posted: if things come too easily, people will soon get bored and leave.

The problem is that the current response seems to have gone a bit too far. It most certainly wasn’t communicated very well. The overall feel is that they just don’t care. That is the root of the problem for many, I think. And while many people might not care, there are some who are leaving, and there are others who are upset. Although they might not be a majority or even a large minority…they are a large enough group that I care. As with any action that affects the number of people paying the game, we should all care.

The goal of any developer corrective action should always be to accomplish their goal while alienating the fewest number. With that in mind, I am not sure this whole thing was handled very well.

However, I am smart enough to know that when I post my opinions on this subject, some people will get mad. Others will flame. In some ways, this is good. I would rather know that people still care enough about this game to get passionately angry about it! Unfortunately, the inevitable flames that break out are probably enough of a reason for most of the posts on this subject to get deleted.
When those threads get deleted, it makes those who are passionate about the issue even MORE upset. It validates what they are feeling…that the Devs just don’t care.

The irony with all of this is that usually our Devs are fairly open about discussing their actions with us. They solicit player opinions, they hold open beta, they respond to and react to feedback that they receive. Our Devs DO care. But, because the response the Devs chose to deal with this whole issue, that being GM action, is specifically barred by forum rules from discussion, the feelings of those who are upset are being made worse.

Anyway, I highly recommend that you post your opinions on this subject, good or bad, in this feedback thread : Positron's 'Abusing Mission Architect' thread.

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Just to clarify again I don't not care. I violently disagree. I do however think almost nobody else cares.

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Pacting wasn't intended to be used for this purpose. Everybody knows that, and if you claim to not know that I'm going to flatly call you a lair. Pacting was so two people could always enjoy the same content together more or less.

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That's why the feature was introduced, but it was immediately obvious to everyone involved that it could and would be used to get offline characters to high levels. As far as I know the devs are OK with this because the online character is only earning at 1/2 their normal speed, so there is no reward rate disparity involved.

I don't think pacting to 50 is an exploit, or abusive. That's an honest answer.

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But it is yet another example of how certain people will judge based on their own standards (and for some people those standards are completely arbitrary) what is and what is not abuse.

The "I know it when I see it" is a joke to me.

Some people say people flipping in the market is abuse.
Some people say leveling too fast is abuse (but they won't state any but the most obvious 1-50 in 4 hours or something).

A dev has stated it is okay to repeat content if I do it for the enjoyment but not the rewards. Now if anyone cannot see the inherent problem with that definition I know I cannot communicate with them.

I'm just tired of all the "you're doing it wrong" from players. There won't be anyone left if they all get to define it.

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I personally think you're doing something pretty twitchy if you can get to 50 in a month. But I've been here a long time and apparently getting to 50 in a week is standard fare now.

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Flame on. Yes I know you're going to have a field day with the word intended. Enjoy. Come to think of it you'll probably have a field day with my analogy too.

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Not really. It explains your issue. I disagree with you, but not going to flame.

Unless you want me to.

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Only if it's going to be really funny.

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-cough- -blink- Somebody explain to me how pl'ing pact'd chars makes you 'good at the game'. IMO that doesn't add up.
It's not like your headshotting 100% or taking over the world with france... your just exploiting an xp loophole. Thats not skill.

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He wants to take a full group into missions with the toughest boss mobs made by the Devs.

How is that an xp loophole?

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I'm going to readily admit I might have gotten lost in here somewhere since I've been reading like 10 threads and hunting down Lost but I'd swear he said something about pacting with a buncha offline chars during this uber XP running debacle in an attempt to get them to 50 in like 10 hours.

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Fair enough - it's hard to follow 10 threads at once.

He did indicate that people could level pact once he has it set up.

So, is the level pact the problem?

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I'm going to go ahead and answer this honestly, since I'm borderline retarded and you can all do whatever.

It's not pacting. It's not doing things as intended. Pacting wasn't intended to be used for this purpose. Everybody knows that, and if you claim to not know that I'm going to flatly call you a lair. Pacting was so two people could always enjoy the same content together more or less. Thats a little simplified I know.

I mean, you CAN run out and slap a 5 year old right now and run away and I'm pretty sure you'll get away with it, but you're not going to because you're not supposed to, it's wrong, and you know it.

Anyway have fun with that. Flame on. Yes I know you're going to have a field day with the word intended. Enjoy. Come to think of it you'll probably have a field day with my analogy too.

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-cough- -blink- Somebody explain to me how pl'ing pact'd chars makes you 'good at the game'. IMO that doesn't add up.
It's not like your headshotting 100% or taking over the world with france... your just exploiting an xp loophole. Thats not skill.

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He wants to take a full group into missions with the toughest boss mobs made by the Devs.

How is that an xp loophole?

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I'm going to readily admit I might have gotten lost in here somewhere since I've been reading like 10 threads and hunting down Lost but I'd swear he said something about pacting with a buncha offline chars during this uber XP running debacle in an attempt to get them to 50 in like 10 hours.

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There needs to be a dialogue... a real one, where Mr. Millar heaves his considerable bulk off his pedestal

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dude

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What, too much?

I never know...

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It's way too much. That's an incredibly low blow, and it doesn't help anything.

Also, I don't know where the idea comes from this these are Posi's rules or that the buck stops with him on customer service matters. This is, indeed, a customer service issue, and Posi is not a part of that. Let's stop dragging him into it, ok?

And seriously Liv, you're better than that kind of petty personal attack.

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Everybody shoots the messenger boss.

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So your reply is "No, I'm not going to tell you if all or only some of the things you proposed are abuse"? Seems to be a common theme.

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I will absolutely tell you. Every thing you said is abusive behavior in my opinion if memory serves. But you know that. Now you say 'how exactly is x y z abusive'

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Thank you for your opinion. I am surprised you consider simply being good at this game abuse. Good luck in City of Heroes and life. We won't be in contact with one another.

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-cough- -blink- Somebody explain to me how pl'ing pact'd chars makes you 'good at the game'. IMO that doesn't add up.
It's not like your headshotting 100% or taking over the world with france... your just exploiting an xp loophole. Thats not skill.

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So your reply is "No, I'm not going to tell you if all or only some of the things you proposed are abuse"? Seems to be a common theme.

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I will absolutely tell you. Every thing you said is abusive behavior in my opinion if memory serves. But you know that. Now you say 'how exactly is x y z abusive'