Moonlighter

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    We've made much of the comparison to fire blast but I think it would do us some good to compare DP and archery. It seems to me based on the rooting around city of data I've already done that archery's primary advantage over DP is that rain of arrows recharges in 60 seconds rather than 120. It does not have a commanding lead in single target damage, if indeed it has a lead at all, it too has at least one utterly useless power, it does almost exclusively lethal damage, and I would say it relies much more heavily on its tier 9 than DP does to put out great aoe numbers.
    I can certainly see why looking at the straight data you could argue that. I don't disagree on paper that Archery's main advantage is Rain of Arrows. But let me try to explain why, setting aside the recharge and damage of the nuke, that Archery just plays better for me.

    ~ Having a third tier attack with full range is tremendously useful and makes game play much better than data might otherwise indicate. Yes, I know most sets don't have that range either but this is one of those little perks which, in total, make the set very good and make up for redraw and less than stellar single target.

    (Dual Pistols just seems to lack perks like this to make up for redraw and less than stellar single target damage. Instead, it has three or four little design idiosyncrasies that makes the set feel like it's fighting you.)

    ~ Forgetting recharge and damage, having a nuke that can be used at range and can initiated before the mobs agro on you is a great advantage.

    ~ Having Fistful of Arrows animation so fast and being able to kite directly after it delivers its damage is a tremendous advantage for a closer range cone that requires positioning to leverage.

    ~ Having explosive arrow have it's animation time all happen before it delivers its damage coupled with knockdown means there is little return fire before the damage is delivered. In addition, as soon as the arrow is released you can move again which allows you to corner pull. Hail of Bullets is good, but standing there rooted while enemies return an alpha strike and *then* have the knock down go off is somewhat clunky.

    ~ Archery has an Aim equivalent.

    ~ Blazing Arrow is just sooo good. Shorter animation, better damage, full range, extra DoT damage.

    None of these is an overwhelming statistical advantage, but they provide enough small perks to the overall experience that Archery feels smoother, faster and more polished as a set.

    Quote:
    Certainly not. I use those ammo types for graphical variety when putting hail of bullets on auto while marketing*. However, as others have said in this thread and elsewhere, corruptors and defenders can leverage those ammo types to much greater effect. Why should they be improved for blasters when they are already quite good for debuff focused ATs? Take any other blaster debuff and it too is weaker than the defender version of the same set. It just doesn't seem like a big issue to me.
    Okay, I see that. I can see the argument that Chemical and Ice ammo are designed for debuff classes. But why not make the blaster get more advantage from the damage of these by making a larger percentage of the damage come from cold or acid instead of making only a small token amount of damage non-lethal? It's a shame that when dealing with robots where piercing damage is heavily resisted that swapping to *acid* bullets doesn't actually seem to make a noticeable difference.

    Quote:
    I see no reason not to add typed defense to hail of bullets if it's going to have defense at all, sure, but if they don't get around to adding it for a while it isn't like the power is unusable in the mean time.
    True, but it has never been my argument that the set was unusable. I don't want to lead people away from the set, instead I want to see some quality of life issues fixes (along with Executioner's Shot) to make the set more fun. Because really is there any blaster set with as much style as DP?

    Quote:
    This is another thing I file under "better on debuff ATs" who also, I might add, may get more use out of normal rounds' knockback since they have less hp and tend to do less damage and thus be at greater risk to enemy melee.Every set has its albatross, one way or another...

    *may not actually occur
    I actually think blasters get as much if not more out of knockback. They have no self heal and probably have less mitigation in their secondary unless you are a /Ice or something. Being able to swap between knockback and fire is really one of the good things about the set.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Not if you like the game being balanced.
    If the game is balanced with Fire and Archery blasters, the game would be fine fixing some of the DP issues.

    Quote:
    Cool, I guess you also hate every other blaster cone since empty clips is pretty much dead average.
    I agree that Empty Clips is fine, though I will admit that the DoT implementation of Empty Clips means a DP blaster will suffer more return fire than something like Fistful of Arrows. Still, that's part and parcel of the set and compared to other sets Empty Clips doesn't need changing.

    Quote:
    Aside from these benefits, it completely lacks benefits!
    Just to be clear, during your game play you use Cold and Acid ammo in equal amounts to Fire and Normal?

    Quote:
    I was kind of hoping we'd moved past some of this by now but clearly not.Not really.
    The set hasn't changed, so I don't know why people would suddenly stop pointing out it's shortcomings.

    I think there are enough common issues in this thread that it bears looking into. I don't want a massive buff to the set, but some stuff is fairly universal. There's little use for Acid and Cold ammo. I'd like to see that fixed. The defense granted by our nuke doesn't work with our own defense powers. Piercing Rounds -Res gets messed up by other ammo types making it necessary in a group to ammo dance if you want to give the -Res benefit to your team mates (and you should).

    IMO Executioner's Shot could use some love, but the opinion on that seems to vary.
  3. My biggest problem with offensive auras on blasters is it seems sometimes I spend more time waiting on recharge and retoggling them then actually benefiting from them. I really wish offensive toggles just suppressed.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MonkeySpirit View Post
    While not an expert in the game by far, I love Gun Prophet, my level 32 DP/MM.

    Between the knockback, the stun and the -recharge from the secondary, you have a lot of mitigation to ensure survival when solo.

    In a team, I have a wonderful AoE attack chain with fire ammo. I avoid redraw, so I go Concentrate>Psi Scream>Bullet Rain>Empty Clips>Piercing Rounds and then some single target blasts if necessary.

    I've just gotten Hail of Bullets, so I'm learning to use it, but it will mesh really well with Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave. I use it with teleport, to make the most of the +defense component. The monsters get very little time to react to my appearance while I'm already mowing them down with bullets.
    I really like that name. Cool concept.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by StrykerX View Post
    But at least you only give up a few percent damage to stay at long range with a high recharge build, most sets give up more.
    Most sets can mix in an additional single target attack from their secondary without paying the redraw tax. While a set like Electric Blast lacks a third attack, it can pick up a ranged Immobilize or use Blapper attacks to fill the gap and not suffer additional activation due to weapon redraw.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    And so it can! Sure it takes some ioing but my blaster is a speed boost away from having gapless tier 1 and 2 blasts, meaning if I could be bothered to buy some purples I'd be there, and I'd be doing basically the same single target damage as energy, sonic and rad, and better damage than assault rifle and elec. All of this with only two powers taken and slotted, and it also is the only set that can do full "standard" single target damage while mezzed.

    That's better than a sharp stick in the eye, that is.
    To have a gapless attack chain with only tier 1 and tier 2 you'd have to have Dual Wield recharge is 1.188 seconds. Isn't that impossible due to the recharge cap?

    Edit: I don't know that the solution to having a lackluster Executioner's is to stack recharge to the exclusion of all else to skip it. The result is no survivability and you still have an average attack chain at best.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Given all of that, animation time is unlikely to be a real factor in terms of the aoe output of almost any blaster. At 200% global recharge, only assault rifle has anything you could call a seamless aoe chain and mixing in outside aoes would only harm its dps as it would cause redraw. Dual pistols has the next most crashless aoes and can also only just chain them gaplessly at such a ridiculous level of recharge.
    The issue here is how much return fire will you take before everything dies. That's a real factor when you start dealing with large groups. If another set delivers its AoE in half the time as DP the enemies will deliver half the return fire. That can make a huge difference in the size of the groups you can destroy solo and may make the difference in whether you can skip Aid Self or not.

    I am not on a crusade to increase DP's AoE effectiveness. With Fire ammo the set does fairly well. But playing Devil's Advocate I take a lot more damage running up to a spawn to use Bullet Rain and Empty Clips then I do with Explosive Arrow and Fistful. It's not just straight activation time either; with attacks that deliver a single burst of damage after a wind up I am not taking return fire during the animation time like I do when I throw Hail of Bullets.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Huh? The only set that does more than 1% more damage than pistols in its tier 1 is assault rifle, which does 8% more. Flares does 1% more, i.e. is identical for all practical purposes. Every other tier 1 blast does damage scale 1, same as Pistols. Archery and sonic do 16% less damage, though at least shriek is balanced by its resistance debuff.
    My bad. For some reason when I revisited the numbers before responding to the last posts I totally misread the damage, or I read Archery instead. I apologize.

    Quote:
    I would argue that the recharge times of the tier 1 and 2 blasts don't matter very much because with moderate global recharge and hasten you can chain them together indefinitely on any set. I suppose it's an advantage at low levels.

    Edit: Okay, it takes closer to perma-hasten recharge to chain them gaplessly, but that's hardly outside the realm of how people actually play. Didn't bother on my pistol blaster as I typically have things I would rather be doing than using my tier 1 and tier 2 blasts, the exception being while mezzed of course.
    I don't disagree. I am just acknowledging why the Archery tier 1 is lower damage; the 2s recharge requires it if the devs are going to stick to their damage/rechage/endurance formula.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Reiska View Post
    Or, the tl;dr version - It seems like Dual Pistols was balanced around the damage figures with Incendiary Ammo rather than balanced around its actual baseline figures, giving the result that the set takes a damage penalty for NOT using Incendiary Ammo, instead of gaining a damage bonus for using it (which should be the case).
    This. In addition, the tier one does less damage than comparable sets with no DoT or anything else to balance it. It also lacks the fast recharge of the Archery tier one. Executioner's Shot is just bad. It makes for a bad single target damage.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Simian_Stalker View Post
    According to Mid's the damage for DPs tier 1 and tier 2 do not change when substituting ammo. The overall damage is the same, but a portion of the damage is fire, cold, etc. I assume you are saying it falls behind due to lethal resistance in a bunch of mobs. Is this correct? If so, does it really fall behind that much?
    No, Mid's does not currently have the functionality to add the extra Fire DoT to the DP attacks damage when Fire ammo is used. There is a substantial additional DoT component when Fire is used.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
    I sent a PM to Black Scorpion, tried to send it to Synapse too but pms seem to be turned off on his account. But in either case I wanted to see if a dev can come to this thread and give an official response as to what Dual Pistols is supposed to be doing compared to the other sets. I have always felt this set lagged behind the others due to its incredibly short beta period that was rushed due to the reactivation weekend to promote GR with the flair of DP. This set is long over due for a buffing.
    First, it's the holidays. Second, I don't know with the recent departure of Castle that they will be able to comment on what DP is "supposed" to be doing. I think they will need time to get back from vacation and to evaluate where they take the game from here.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    I'll give you executioner's shot. I took it and used it while I was leveling my blaster up and while it does look fantastic, dropping it was an extremely easy decision at high level. In my view, piercing rounds more than makes up for not having a "real" tier 3 blast, because it fills a very similar role but trades straight up single target power for what I would call a much more interesting, and much more complex, mechanic. I don't even use it for its -res but that's yet another layer to it that a conventional tier 3 blast simply doesn't have. But, I do see how many wouldn't feel that it was worth trying to make the most of a power that is only numerically comparable to blaze if you always hit two or three targets with it.

    The reason that doesn't bother me is not that I don't care about min/maxing, I most certainly do. Blaze itself is a huge outlier, however. It has, as I understand it, the highest DPA of anything other than perhaps corruptor blizzard which for obviously reasons is beyond the scope of this discussion. So, if dual pistols lacks an answer to blaze, it's time to look at what perks you get instead. For me, hail of bullets is such a huge perk that jealous thoughts of fire blast are ne'er to be found dancing through the vacant meadows of my noggin.

    In summation, does dp suffer if a tier 3 blast is a high priority for you? Sure, but if it isn't, you're good to go.
    I'll give you using Piercing and skipping Executioner's. I find decent opportunities to open with Piercing and hit two or even three targets. It's the kind of attack I didn't like at first but is better than I gave it credit for once I learned to use it. With a 20 second recharge I haven't been able to make a full attack chain with only Piercing and the first two attacks.

    I don't think anyone expects DP to get a Blaze equivalent. IMO that attack is the cornerstone of Fire, even more than the AoE.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Simian_Stalker View Post
    I wouldn't call Archery's Tier 1 and 2 powers inferior to DPs Tier 1 and 2. They look about even to me. If anything Archery might be slightly better because Snap Shot recharges quicker and both Archery powers have better Accuracy and End.

    Tier 1
    Pistols
    Acc: 82.5
    End:4.16
    Rech: 4
    Dmg: 62.56
    Rng: 80

    Snap Shot
    Acc: 86.63
    End:3.536
    Rech: 2
    Dmg: 52.55
    Rng: 80

    Tier 2
    Dual Wield
    Acc: 82.5
    End: 6.864
    Rech: 6
    Dmg: 82.58
    Rng: 80

    Aimed Shot
    Acc: 86.63
    End: 5.2
    Rech: 6
    Dmg: 82.58
    Rng: 80
    Compare Archery to other sets or to DP with Fire ammo and it does fall behind.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Kinetic melee and electrical control, by contrast, are quite similar to dual pistols - not the best at everything, and requiring some finesse to leverage properly.
    Actually, the scrapper board banged the heck out of Kinetic Melee from a numerical standpoint. The truth is just the opposite; while it appears to underperform because the complicated animations give the illusion of time and the inherent damage boost power isn't intuitive, numerically it is a good set and up to par with the other scrapper primaries.

    (I don't know anything about Electric.)

    I do agree with you that you can't talk single target damage without comparing the entire chains though. Archery tier 1 and tier 2 attacks are lower, but I will point out that if you try to leverage any other ammo except Fire that DP has the exact same values; it's Fire ammo that basically brings those attacks up to par. That still leaves us with Executioner's Shot as a problem with the set.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by StrykerX View Post
    No, I'm arguing that if you can't beat a spawn at +0/x8 difficulty without faceplanting unless you use HoB to quickly cut down minions then you can't solo at +0/x8 at all unless you are willing to sit there and wait between spawns. On a Corruptor or Defender that may not be a problem because they take longer to mop up, but a Blaster using a crashless nuke can clear a spawn fast. Admitedly that's a more common situation with Full Auto or Rain of Arrows since they can be used at range, but with stealth you can also gain a second or two as the enemies react using HoB (especially the ones who choose to run up and punch you). I know on my archer I can solo on +0/x8/no bosses if I get RoA off, but if I try it with just Fistful and Explosive I generally have problems. And since I lack the global recharge to use RoA every spawn without a 10 second wait I prefer to solo smaller groups so I can steamroll them (I kill a spawn in 15-20 seconds, adding 10 seconds or so of downtime is harder on my kill rate than just dropping the number of enemies slightly).

    Obviously if you can solo at a given level HoB is going to make every other spawn or so faster, but only if you can survive fighting the rest of the spawns without it.
    One trick I use for my DP is to go with smaller groups as a default and when my nuke is up herd two spawns together.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
    I missed this the first time. I'm really curious about it. The AoE is "only average" in what way? Compared to Energy Blast? Like the discussion about Full Auto this is extremely difficult to evaluate because it depends on whether you want to measure sustainable damage, burst damage, damage versus opportunity cost (i.e. damage output versus the need to "manage" side effects like knockback), and damage versus groups of various sizes. By having a crashless nuke at all I would argue the set does not do "only average" in at least some categories.
    I always assumed the a crashless nuke was the balancing factor for having redraw.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by StrykerX View Post
    Remember that Hail of Bullets cannot (with rare exceptions) be used every spawn. Empty Clips and Bullet Rain are about on par with other sets that have the standard "one cone and one targeted AoE" setup, and those are the AoE powers you get to actually use every time. The ability to use HoB to blast the heck out of every third spawn or so (or every other spawn with high recharge) does help, but only in certain areas. For instance, you can't really count HoB at all when deciding what difficulty to solo on because you have to fight half the spawns without it... or else lose a ton of time sitting around waiting for it to recharge before attacking the next group. Certainly it's above average in AoE on teams, though not as good as AR or Archery (they get their crashless nukes twice as often, which more than makes up for the lower damage), or possibly Fire if Rain of Fire can be used reliably (RoF takes a while to do its damage so it really only helps much against high level enemies who won't die in a few seconds). So best case DP is around 3rd or 4th in AoE power, and worst case it's right in the middle but with a pleasant boost to kill speed every 2-3 spawns. Well, actually worst case you can't use HoB at all because you won't survive being rooted in the middle of the enemy spawn for several seconds before things die... but I'm being generous here.
    This pretty much sums up my feeling about the set.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by _Elektro_ View Post
    A lot of people chiming in on this topic have been around a long time. And you have someone like PleaseRecycle who is actually positive about the power set, and sure enough the nay sayers have him beat.

    Those of you saying 'more people are saying they don't like than do like it' are barking up the wrong tree.
    Wait. Pursuing set balance is not negative. You assume I am somehow emotionally involved with the math of the set. I am not. My Dual Pistols blaster is character number 36 or something. I never said you couldn't have fun with Dual Pistols. I jumped in when people chimed up that the set should not be balanced and their reasoning was, IMO, faulty. I just want set balance.

    Quote:
    Someone actually chimed in and said you can't farm, or participate in a farm 'type' of environment? Huh? What are you smoking?

    I had no issue with cycling powers and I'm not I/O'd through the whazoo. If I had to wait on anything, while the fire dot ticked, I focused on LT's and Bosses (which were + 4 to me).

    The brute enjoyed the assistance, and actually said the minion clean up was nice, but the assistance on bosses was most helpful since that actually slows the process most. Dual Pistols has a VERY nice combo of both minion clean up, and single target hitting.
    My argument wasn't that the set couldn't AoE, it was that the set's AoE was only average for a blaster and didn't somehow make up for the weaknesses of the set. The response was to the person who claimed that the high amount of AoE the set brought warranted a terrible single attack chain and made up for redraw. I disagreed.

    Quote:
    Here are my most prevalent, honest, thoughts on the set:
    -The Utility of the set lends to a flexibilty MOST blasters just don't have.
    - While I said I think the swap ammo power should be inherent it is continually omitted from arguing against DP. The ability to engage knockback for soloing is big. (A main reason I did not like my Fire blaster personally).
    - Swapping to fire in groups helps. Yes the other two round types need something more.
    - Someone else mentioned this but it is worth repeating: the unusual combination of attack types allows for a nice combination of slotting possibilities.
    - If I were to change one thing so far? I'd probably speed some of the animations that seem to root you too long, though I still prefer the ability to use a long animated cone that has knockback, compared to something like: Fire Breath.
    I agree with most of this. Swapping ammo is nice, the crashless nuke is nice (although I will point out that unlike Full Auto and Rain of Arrows you have to be in the middle of the spawn to use it.) The unusual slotting is useful to eke out extra set bonuses. I think I acknowledged most of this.

    But you have to admit the following:
    ~ It would be nice to have a reason to use Acid and Ice ammo.
    ~ Executioner's Shot needs some love.
    ~ It makes little sense to have Hail of Bullets give only positional defense.
    ~ It kind of sucks having to click off Fire bullets to get the -Res from Piercing and then wait on the ammo recharge to go back to Fire in groups.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by _Force_ View Post
    "It's not the Build, it's the Player."

    You can sit and argue about what is "good" and what is "bad" all day. Fact of the matter is that a good player can take a weak power-set and excel at it, pushing it to the limit and out performing stronger sets, and visa versa any bad player can take an awesome power-set and make it very UNextraordinary at best.

    Stop looking at the numbers and instead look at the knowledge and skill of the person at the keyboard, because that right there is where it's at.
    You do realize that the logical conclusion to what you are saying is since there are good players and bad players to heck with game balance? I'm sorry but I want a balanced game.

    Let me put it another way. The only consistent thing about the game experience from set to set is me. Maybe I suck at the game. Maybe I am good at the game. Regardless, I want all my character concepts to be realized without the frustrations of an obvious statistical imbalance getting in the way of my fun.

    Now, if the set offers a different playstyle that I don't like that's completely different; I don't want to impose the style preference on other players. I would just skip those sets. But if I really like a character concept or style but the character is frustrating to play for statistical reasons then I would like the sets balanced.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
    Then there is the fact that Pistols sidesteps having a snipe power and replaces it with a power you might actually want to use. For some reason some people count this against Pistols. My opinion if we don't discredit Fire and Archery for the blasts that kind of suck, its unfair to do that to DP for a power that is actually somewhat viable.
    I agree here, not having a snipe isn't really a disadvantage to the set.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
    Believe it or not but very few people truly want all powers to use the same animation times. Instead what we want is for the devs to admit that animation time IS a part of power balance and account for it when they balance powers. Currently the damage and endurance costs of attacks are balanced based the number of targets (based on area if it's an AoE), the recharge time and whether it's melee or ranged.

    This is only really balanced if two conditions are met:
    1. You have time between attacks where you are waiting for powers to recharge
    2. You are only concerned with sustained damage as opposed to burst damage

    Neither of these are really true in the game today. With various recharge bonuses making a solid attack chain is possible. Additionally for Blasters burst damage IS important, Blasters generally have low defenses and rely on killing their opponents before they get killed. As such the ability to attack faster than your opponent IS an advantage.

    Dual Pistols is fun now and I don't mind the gun-fu animations (although they would not have been my first choice) but except for the first two powers and Suppressive Fire the animations are longer than the equivalent powers in other sets. Dual Pistols is not by itself the problem it is simply the case where the devs' method of balance becomes noticeably problematic.
    I agree with this. It is a nice summary how sometimes the game's ad hoc balancing of animation times causes balance issues in the game.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    There you go, looks like we all agree whether you're willing to admit it or not.
    I want set balance. That's always been my goal. I'd support a nerf if a set warranted it, and I want to buff under performing sets. Dual Pistols under performs. I'd like to see a set of reasonable buffs to bring it up to par, and I outlined a set of tweaks earlier. I don't want to make it uber. I am not asking for Executioner's Shot to be made into Blaze.

    A lot of people have spoken up in this thread and believe that Dual Pistols under performs. From what I read, you are actually in the minority. Maybe you should ask yourself why so many people have spoken up about their disappointments with the set before you try to acuse my of some bizarre made up secret agenda.

    I laid out numbers right there on the screen to try to compare the set. I acknowledged what I felt were the set's strengths. I laid out that I thought the AoE was average for a blaster set and that other areas need tweaks. Your claim that I am somehow trying to trick anyone into unwarranted buffs is puzzling to me. Seriously? That's your approach to the discussion? A tin foil hat?
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Take it or leave it, really, but anyone who just looks at the values in mids and says "this sucks! fire or bust!" is missing out on the most unique set available to blasters.
    Um, you're the one that brought up the Fire comparison. People are just responding to that.

    The point isn't that the set sucks. My main blaster is DP. The point is that the AoE of the set is average for a blaster and doesn't, as you claim, make up for the other areas that are lacking.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Moonlighter, you seem to be unaware that inferno rounds add a large amount of all-fire damage to every dp attack other than pistols and suppressive fire, and you seem to assume that this "high level blaster" leaves all of his or her powers unslotted for recharge. You also think it is ever a good idea to use a crashy nuke. Dunno what to tell you, man.
    Meh, edited out. In the end if you have fun peeling the minions off every 3rd spawn then good for you and have fun with it.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    Really, what I use blasters for at all is what I find dual pistols to be best at: high speed, high level, high impact task forces. It does things most blaster sets simply cannot do in the world of aoe damage and in trade gives up having a top end single target chain, which it turns out is almost useless in the aforementioned task forces. I find anyone's claims of it being unsatisfactory to min/maxers to be questionable at best, unless their definition of min/maxing is radically different from mine, which would be weird because mine is probably the best way to earn huge amounts of merits.
    First, I am talking about a level 50 soft capped Dual Pistol blaster who is mostly IO'd.

    Second, I find the AoE on the set lacking, especially in TFs. When the tank/brute/controller grabs the spawn I have two options. Either my tier 9 is up and yay I do sub-par nuke damage or it's not in which case I throw... Bullet Rain and Empty Clips? Then I am waiting on AoE recharge.

    Your claim the the set is wonderful on Task Forces because of AoE is based on what exactly? With no Aim the set is offering one Targeted AoE that takes 2.64 (Arcanatime) to animate and a cone that does ~57 damage? I'm sorry if I am not excited. Most of the time on TFs I am throwing single target attacks waiting on AoEs to recharge so I can throw my weak lethal AoE damage. I'm sorry but DP is weak on TFs.

    Basically it's a one trick pony that gets to feel special every 120 seconds when it's nuke is up. And the nuke damage is sub-par as nukes go, though having no end dump is admittedly great and one of the few reasons I like the set.

    But let's compare, with all animation times in Arcanatime:

    Fire Ball: 78 base damage in 1.188 seconds, recharges in 16s.
    Bullet Rain: 62 base damage in 2.64 seconds, DoT, recharges in 18s.

    Fire Ball is in all ways superior, and it isn't Lethal and requires no redraw.

    Empty Clips: 57 base damage in 2.64 seconds, DoT, recharges in 10 seconds.
    Fire Breath: 109 base damage in 2.904 seconds, DoT, recharges in 16 seconds.

    Probably the best comparison for DP. Empty Clips does only half the damage, but it is slightly faster and recharges much quicker. But, it does only half the damage.

    Hail of Bullets: 204 base damage, 5+ second animation, 120 recharge.
    Inferno: 472 base damage, 3.168 animation time, Self End Drain, 360 recharge.

    Hail of Bullets is great. I hate micromanaging blue pills so I can recover from a nuke and Hail of Bullets recharges fast! But Hail of Bullets does *half* the damage.

    Dual Pistols twiddles it's AoE thumbs.
    Rain of Fire: 125 base damage, 2.24 animation, 60 second recharge.

    Basically while Dual Pistols twiddles it's thumbs Fire is raining down destruction.

    Look at it this way: When Dual Pistols does it's nuke in 5+ seconds Fire is using Rain of Fire plus Fire Breath in the same time frame and causing *more* overall damage in that time than DP's nuke. That combo recharges faster than DPs nuke, slows the entire spawn and DP can't open with Aim.

    I could make similar comparison to Archery. Sorry but even if you don't like using blues after your nuke Dual Pistols AoE on task forces is at best middle of the road. If you want a decent AoE blaster you'd be better off with Archery, Assault Rifle, Fire Blast, or even Sonic.

    My point is using Task Force damage to justify the many weaknesses of the set is seeing the situation through some pretty thick rose colored glasses.