Mna_Grok

OOOHH. Look!! A brick wall, let me pound it with my head.

<ul type="square">[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[/list]

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...unless it actually affects you or your game play experience, then shup up already

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In other threads it has been explained quite extensively how the anti-isolators felt about this possibility and how implimenting it would affect our gameplay experience.

<ul type="square">[*]Here's one[*]Here's another[/list]
If you haven't already, I recommend reading those two threads.

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Okay, 2 summerize those 2 threads, number 1: An incident in the hollows, IE a server glitch caused many ppl to go into the hollows showing how desperatly how bad they want the badge.

number 2:Someone posted an idea on how lvl 50's should get isolater and how a few ppl said it was a waste of the devs time, I think it was a good idea for isolator, anyway thier are contaminated in rv, so what, I bet your gonna be hunting them too, all I see are pluses for leting ppl have a second chance at getting isolator.

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There were a number of minuses that people pointed out in those threads as well. I know because I pointed some of them out. (Disclaimer, I will also admit to being a bad netizen in those threads as well and directing it towards flamesville at times).

That being said, the discussion of this is moot as the devs have made the decision that, on I7 test at least, there is at least one contaminated wandering around RV.

With someone interested in discussion, I would gladly go through and pick out the negative points. However, from the tone of some of your posts, I do not believe that a reasonable discussion will take place about the negative points of putting Contaminated outside of Outbreak.

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...unless it actually affects you or your game play experience, then shup up already

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In other threads it has been explained quite extensively how the anti-isolators felt about this possibility and how implimenting it would affect our gameplay experience.

<ul type="square">[*]Here's one[*]Here's another[/list]
If you haven't already, I recommend reading those two threads.

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The Anti-team is acting bitter that it got done to begin with and is gloating that it IS so hard to get.

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I have yet to see any significant amount of gloating that it is hard or bitterness that it has been put in. I see more unhappiness about the difficulty coming from those who want it post-outbreak and those just coming into the discussion. (I also notice a lot of people who wanted it post-outbreak saying "I don't care how hard it is, I now have the chance to get it." to be completely honest.)

The anti-Isolators have been rather subdued about this from what I have seen.

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EDIT: Mna, I see you keep replying to me. You do realize you've been on my ignore list for a while right? Just thought I'd remind ya'.

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Just because you no longer wish to read what I wrote does not mean that I am not allowed to comment on what you wrote.

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They're so worried about proving each other wrong and bashing each other it'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

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What is more pathetic??

Those of us discussing/arguing about a topic, or the people in the peanut gallery yelling "Stop discussing this!! I don't want to listen to you any more!!"

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The devs didn't expect people to reroll because they didn't expect people to care about badges as much as people do. Why people keep trying to apply some kind of "motive" or "mistake" to the devs kill me, when it is not rooted in any kind of reality other than the egocentric "I want Isolator so I'm right by definition" one.

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Which is just as egocentric as the position held by the people who didn't want Isolator outside of OUtbreak and hold their PoV as reality.

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Not so much. Those who don't want Isolator outwith Outbreak aren't asking the devs to change something. Each and every person who is demanding Isolator after they leave the Tutorial area is, in effect, demanding that the devs change the game to suit only a minority of people.

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I am looking at it at an even more basic level than that. Each side, for whatever reasons they feel is appropriate, believes that they are in the right and that they deserve to have their point of view listened to.

Each side is being egotistical in that if their reality is made eal, the other side is denied theirs. Unfortunately, that is the way that things go. Somoe people will always be disappointed.

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The one thing I dont get is this, its not rly affecting everyone, why should they care if other ppl get the badge?

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I don't mean to be flippant, but have you read any of this thread or any of the others on Isolator?? If not, I suggest yuou do a search on the forums. There have been a number of threads on this topic that have people going over all the reasons (both for and against) for each side in extensive detail.

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Each and every person who is demanding Isolator after they leave the Tutorial area is, in effect, demanding that the devs change the game to suit only a minority of people.

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And that makes the pro-isolators unique how? I mean it's not like they're the only ones who have ever asked for something game-changing. All things considered the time it took them to program a single mob spawn into what they were already doing for RV was hardly detracting from anything 'more importan't.

Anyway the devs dropped the ball. They should have retro-actively awarded it when I2 hit, period. That would have avoided all this.

Anyway, it's a dead issue. You'd think you guys are getting paid by the post the way you're going back and forth. Just [censored] get over it. Go play the game, call your mom, have a beer or take a nap.

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Thank you for telling us that we aren't allowed to discuss this topic anymore.

It would make life a lot easier for all of us if you could provide us with a list of topics that we are allowed to discuss. If you could also let us kow how many posts we are allowed to make on the topic and how much thread drift we are allowed to have occur within the thread it would also be greatly appreciated.

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The devs didn't expect people to reroll because they didn't expect people to care about badges as much as people do. Why people keep trying to apply some kind of "motive" or "mistake" to the devs kill me, when it is not rooted in any kind of reality other than the egocentric "I want Isolator so I'm right by definition" one.

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Which is just as egocentric as the position held by the people who didn't want Isolator outside of OUtbreak and hold their PoV as reality.

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Not so much. Those who don't want Isolator outwith Outbreak aren't asking the devs to change something. Each and every person who is demanding Isolator after they leave the Tutorial area is, in effect, demanding that the devs change the game to suit only a minority of people.

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I am looking at it at an even more basic level than that. Each side, for whatever reasons they feel is appropriate, believes that they are in the right and that they deserve to have their point of view listened to.

Each side is being egotistical in that if their reality is made eal, the other side is denied theirs. Unfortunately, that is the way that things go. Somoe people will always be disappointed.

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The devs didn't expect people to reroll because they didn't expect people to care about badges as much as people do. Why people keep trying to apply some kind of "motive" or "mistake" to the devs kill me, when it is not rooted in any kind of reality other than the egocentric "I want Isolator so I'm right by definition" one.

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Which is just as egocentric as the position held by the people who didn't want Isolator outside of OUtbreak and hold their PoV as reality.

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Even though the conversation's moved past this LiquidX, I don't see "to get a badge" tacked on after those phrases...

Let's drop the Easter Egg line... it's as useless and irreconcilable as the rest of this thread at this point.

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It's under the tab called Badges...What else are they supposed to mean??

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Can you explain to me why contaminated MOBs couldn't have been placed in AP and/or GC from the beginning of I2 and still stayed true to the 'starting your career on a high note' intention of the badge? The 'solution' to Isolator could have been implemented before it even became a problem... *sigh*

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Of course, what a brilliant idea!!

And all those 50s out there who want the badge would never farm them with their tier-9 powers and make it impossible for the lowbies to get.

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Just had a thought. As well as villain griefing, the "anti-Isolator" people may grief as well. There may be hordes of people who don't hink this badge should be awarded hopping around bumping off the poor little single spawned Contaminated, just to make their point. Good luck ever getting it if that happens.

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I know you mean this as a general "what-if" scenario, but please allow me to point out that while I have been vocal about Isolator not getting put in post-Outbreak, I would never, ever intentionally grief someone in that way.

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Perhaps, but it’s quite telling that Positron chose to respond to my rather serious accusations over Isolator’s overall shortcomings by addressing the most minor, trivial aspect of it. The fact that, gods forbid, a few villains might get Isolator in RV was more important to the Devs’ thinking on this implementation than all the other ramifications merely adds to my misgivings about this. Opening Pandora’s Box comes to mind...

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It always astonishes me that devs still post here knowing the likleyhood that whatever they say (or don't say) will get analyzed, dissected, torn apart and put back together again.

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I think Positron just enjoys torturing villains. I can imagine him in GM mode, hovering over the masses of villains futilely trying to earn the badge, cackling like a fiend.

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Positron:
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IF we were to ever add a way to get Isolator post-Tutorial, it would most likely be incredibly hard to get. Annoyingly hard. Irritatingly hard. There-would-be-a-zillion-people-asking-to-make-it-easier hard.

But IF we were to add it, it would be available nonetheless.

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What's next? Fixing Superspeed so that people cannot go in a circle more than 2 times for that occasionally annoying person that likes to zip around the team while waiting.

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Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepl easepleaseplease

&lt;pause for breath&gt;

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepl easepleaseplease

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Changed To Hit Debuffs to use the 5/10/20 Enhancement progression.

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Does that mean the NPC now have the new to hit system ( to hit check before level check ? )

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I don't think so, I think we have to wait for I7 to go live before we get that.

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So the change to To Hit enh schedule, announced last week, made specially for the scaling defense announced months ago, come now in a hurry and we are temporarily nerfed ?

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Yeah, pretty much. However, I doubt they would put this into play unless the next patch compensated for it, if you get me.

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Statesman said here why they couldn't put the two together:

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Ideally, the Enhancement change should’ve gone hand in hand with I7. To be honest, there was an error there. Unfortunately, we discovered that we couldn’t pull the change out without jeopardizing the I7 release schedule. Right now, QA (at NCSoft and Cryptic) is working away at I7 and shaking out bugs. If we were to roll back this change, our teams would need to put I7 aside and retest the current build. I made the decision to stay the course instead.

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Seriously, I find it difficult to think of a better word to use. While I didn’t like ED, the way it came bounding at us on the heels of the i5 nerfs (or was it the i6 nerfs? They’re starting to blur together) after Jacks statement that there would be no more major nerfage…wow! Talk about a PR debacle!

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TP be precise, Jack said there would be no more major changes to powers.

From a designer point of view, enhancements and powers are not the same.

From the player point of view, they are.

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OK.... I just feel strongly about the opprotunity of the Isolator badge. It stands there mocking me like a carrot on a string behind a glass. not to mention, Tho shalt not covet thy neighbors badge.

I just addressed that point that we were not "MENT" to have all badges. It IS my desire to get all of them even if it takes me to the end of my days. I have such a shallow life.

Ok just kidding

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SWDamocles, the sad thing is we are arguing for the same thing. The devs have said that one character is not meant to have all the badges. I just think it is a mistake on their part.

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I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content. For example, there are numerous times where, if you do one contact, you are locked out of another contact.

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I once read an email from a GM stating : "Not all players are meant to receive all badges in the game." It begs the question : "WHY NOT?"

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The reason that they don't think that one character should be able to see everything is that they want the player to replay the game a couple of times with different characters.

RP stands for roleplaying.

In essence, you determine the personality that your hero/villain has and, through typing and /em's you act out their personality in game.

The Sg I am in (Simian Defence Force) actually has a post on this here. Keep in mind that the post is written towards RPing a member of the Simian Defence FOrce, but it should give you a good idea.

Replying to Beef_cake because he was the last one that posted...

Some people want this badge to be available for those that missed it in Outbreak.

Some people only want the badge for those that earned it in Outbreak.

There is no convincing of people on either side.

The conversation is now steadily heading downhill with a nice stream of accusations for various motives and cherrypicking of points to exaggerate to fan the flames.

Let the thread die!!!

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But I still stand by my statement that a “lot” of people would be happy to get Isolator on their pre-i2 characters. I can do that with great confidence, since after all the word “lot” is slippery and doesn’t have a pre-defined meaning, so no one can prove me wrong.

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Hah!! I *can* prove you wrong. I know a guy named Lot. I asked him what he thought a bout this, and do you know what he said??

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A badge?? [censored] would I want a badge for!!! Now stop bothering me you jack[censored]. Can't you see I am a pillar of salt!!

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Hehehehe

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You will never get Beef-Cake, Mna_Grok, you and I to agree on this issue. We are not going to convience each other. And that is expdentionally more accurate for the ENTIRE player base on most issues.

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QFT.

The most we can hope for now is to keep discussing this issue civily, but I think that we have started down the slope towards modsmack.

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Agreed. Some people are 100% against it - some are 100% for it - and neither will change their minds. Now it's all up to the Devs. Your voices were heard! Thanks for the feedback on it.

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*sings and skips*

I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!
I got a Dev reply!!

*trips and falls*
I bent my wookie...

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I bet for every person out there that would like some way to get Isolator on the hero that missed it, there are 40 or 50 that really don't care and have much more inportant things they wouldlike changed. In the whole scheme of things that people want in CoH, getting a badge added is, IMO, insignificant.

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Making up statistics doesn’t really help your argument, but whatever.

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I am doing the same amount of "making up" of statistics that you have. You claim that there are lots of people who would like this. I am claiming that there are a lot more that don't care. My opinion on the numbers are equally as valid as yours. If you dismiss mine, you need to dismiss yours as well.

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Ummm, no, actually.

I’ve never made up a “statistic” in this discussion. A statistic requires an actual number. I have clear evidence, however, that “lots” of people would like Isolator on their pre-i2 characters. The evidence is that every time a thread like this one begins, it very quickly grows large. Heck, in just the last two days three or four newcomers have chimed in adding their voices to the pro-Isolator side.

The only statistics used came from you, when you pulled "40 or 50" out of thin air. And by saying that your “opinion on the numbers are equally as valid” as mine, you’re making a Burden of Proof logical fallacy. YOU are the one who made up those numbers, so the burden of proof falls on YOU.


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I have quite a few members in my SG that have said that they really don't care about badges.

Doesn't really bother me whether you believe me or not. *shrug*

Also, the population of people who post in a thread like this is not a representative of the opinions of the population as a whole.

You are falling into the Biased Sample fallacy.

Also note that I am not talking about the set of people who don't want Isolator to be given retroactively...I am talking about people who don't care and would rather the devs do something else. The line between the two is blurred I will admit, but there is a difference.

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...as long as the price was on the pliers then the customer was wrong.

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No, I don't see any link between the price being on the pliers saying how much it should cost and the text on the badge saying what you have to do to get the badge.