Misaligned

Made 300mil while outside playing with my kids.

I love weekends!

...that is all!

Reposting this in a thread that's actually relevant:

Posted by me, HERE.

I encourage any and every person who comes to this forum complaining about flippers and how they are ruining the salvage market to attempt to do so themselves.

I will give anyone who wishes to try and ruin a common salvage - by any means they have listed above - 15 million inf to do just that.

If it is indeed a profitable as these people claim it is, in mere hours they should at least double that 15 mil. This means they will be able to price fix that salvage indefinitely.

I dare you to try. Anyone up for it?

Btw, Alchemical Silver has 1600 for sale right this instant. My 15 mil will only allow you to bid 50k across your 20 slots and still have 5 mil left over for listing fees.

According to the crabby folks, this is more than enough to "buy all of the cheap supply" that they don't have access to because of evil flippers.

Incidentally, let's note right now that it will take you at least 8 characters just to purchase every last Alchemical Silver (right now!). Then you will need to dedicate at least 4 to keeping the supply bottled up, at which point you will most likely need at least 4 to continue selling the ones you're purchasing.

Note:

You start buying at 50k. You sell at 100k. 2x mark up.

To "protect" your investment, you're going to have to raise that 50k to at least 100k to purchase all of the ones listed by people who are not you. However, you can then list at 150k. Once you have established the 150k mark, you will need to up your bids to 150k, and list them at 200k. Continue with this until people will no longer buy your salvage. I estimate that if you work REALLY hard at it, you can push this number towards 500k before enough people give up.

15 million. Yes, I will PAY you to try and do what you think people are doing. Go for it! Also, you can keep all of the money you make at it!

Re: Flipping

I am a flipper of salvage. I have a lovely little niche where I purchase 1 kind of uncommon salvage and then turn around and sell that salvage for 30x what I paid for it.

Here's the catch - I'm buying salvage while I'm selling it. POP! Just bought one. 10 seconds later: POP! Just sold one!

Flipping on the scale so as to price fix, as so many people believe is happening here, is impossible. Limited market slots assure that.

Even if you assume that someone is using ALL of their market slots to do this on say... 10 characters, 5 of them are bidding and 5 are selling. Or, they're all using 1/2 of their slots for both. This allows for (at least) 100 x 10 for bidding and 100 x 10 for selling.

Using Alchemical Silver as an example:

Bid price: 50,000
Sell Price: 100,000

Let's assume for some weird reason that this person can flip every spot on every character every day.

That's 1,000 sales a day (good demand!) and 1,000 purchases a day (good supply!)

This person eats 10,000 per sale in fees, so actual profit is 40,000 per sale.

You find my numbers realistic?

I don't. But let's run with it!

This person now makes 40,000,000 a day flipping this. Divide that out by the 10 characters he's using and you're down to 4,000,000 a day profit per character. At this rate, even pooling money, it will take 50 days to hit the inf cap for 1 character. Clearly this is how the rich get richer.


I can make 40 mil a day using 16 slots. I can do this on 1 character with less time invested. Its a whole lot easier and frankly, the returns are insanely better.

Making money on salvage is probably the slowest way to make money on the market aside from a straight marketeering type perspective. Controlling a single item's supply and price fixing it is a nightmare, and even IF you were willing to invest the obscene amount of time in doing it, your returns would be pitiful.

Everyone seems to forget that "most" of the salvage on the market was dumped there by someone who does not play the market. They see the last 5 at 100k and so they list theirs at 100k. OR they see the last 5 at 101 and they list theirs for 101. Most people don't actually care enough to keep a mental inventory of what everything is actually worth.


Re: Changing the market -

I'd like to see 2 things:

1 - Sales capped at 30 days. No refund on the listing fee. This may cause people to consider a bit more carefully when listing low supply low demand items for obscene amounts.

2 - Adjust reward merits to actually be in line with A-Merits. Right now, if we compare apples to apples:

1 A-Merit is 5 recipes
20 Reward Merits is 1 recipe

Therefore, 100 Reward merits = 1 A-Merit

A-Merits can be done solo, and on your time. They can also be done considerably faster than an equal number of TFs or Arcs.

I think a reduction of about 25-50% on reward merit costs would go a long way towards balancing this.

Also, while we're reducing the cost of Reward Merit rolls and recipes, let's make them universal in price like the A-Merits. Why is a Numina Proc 250 merits when a LotG is 200? They both cost 2 A-Merits afaik.

I would like to agree that I think you should be allowed to roll at any random level. A slider for this would be huge!

SB is what - 20% Global Recharge? That's 2 full purple sets of recharge, in a single button.

For those who want to pew pew and not buff: Don't roll buffing ATs. Debuffs work too. Go do that. Then you can pew pew all day long and no one will probably notice that you're not debuffing like you should


Here's another tip: Target through your teammates. As you target them to heal from their target, or hit them with an SB, hit an attack. Its not terribly difficult to DPS while you buff. SB has a 2 second recharge on it. If you're keeping Siphon speed on yourself you should have at least your t1 or t2 power available between every SB. Just spam one attack between every SB. That's 6 attacks you got off while waiting for SB to come back up.

At level 30, my fire/kin corr does this: SB - Fireball - SB - Flares - SB - Some buff that's needed for me / a heal for someone else - SB - Fireball - Repeat until everyone is buffed. At 38 when I get FS and Transferrence, there will be even less time for me to attack, and yet, I'll work it in just like I do now.

"I don't like buffing". Super! I don't like hitting myself in the head with a hammer. Hence, why I don't walk under boxes filled with hammers. If you think that you're going to have issues applying SB, or with people yelling at you for NOT applying SB, then... don't be a Kin. It seems to me that the only reason someone would want to be a Kin when they don't want to buff their teammates is because they want FS every time they play. Being a Kin ensures you get that FS. But that's really a rather silly reason to play a support AT and then not do the support part.

Day 7 of "actual marketeering" update:

I see this whole process as having begun last Friday. That is when I started putting the knowledge gleaned here to work for me.

I am still running multiple experiments, and from those, I have learned a few things. Next monday I will begin fresh, with a character more suited to marketeering in an effort to see where I can take this as a casual marketeer.

Reminder of the experiments:

Straight Salvage flipping, or "Making money for the ambition impaired"

This is so easy its unreal. Its not huge money - at level 8, I have made about 30 mil in 7 days. I neglect him a LOT, and could likely double that amount.

At level 4, starting at 0 (replicating a brand new player) I am up to 10 mil. I am hampered more here by market and salvage slots than anything.

There is no thought involved in this process. You pick a thing. You bid X on that thing. You sell it for Y. Always. You never deviate. Money falls from the sky and you get not-so-poor.

Mid-Level Crafting of 1 Recipe across a range, or "How to fill your market slots for weeks at a time"

Meh. It was worth a shot. These don't move. Ever. Sold 1 in 7 days. I tried, I learned. I will be moving on

Cheap Max-Level IOs, or "How do you like watching your itty bitty profits dwindle?"

This is a great niche for some people. For me, the fact that a 2 mil fluctuation in price in a day means that my stock is now listed for more than they are going for. Listing it for less will allow me to break even. I don't have the patience or the inclination to stay in this market. I think it takes a special kind of person to do this. My Mom alway said I was special, but I don't think this is what she meant.

Max-Level IOs, or "Sticking it to the man for fun and profit!"

Seriously though, this is where the consistent good money is imo. The market wobbles a bit, but its usually not enough to cause too much stress. I did learn some VERY important things this past week:

• When you find a niche and try it out, don't go "all in". Make 2, list em, let it go. If you have absolute faith that its a honey pot, bid on the recipes x10 and maybe the rare salvage if you feel it will help. I went "all in" about 4 times. I'm a slow learner. So now I sit with some IOs that don't move very fast and I have a lot of recipes to craft. I will likely destroy the recipes. 2 or 3 at a time, max! You can always make a list of things you have done well at and check back in on them.
• Re-listing hurts, but not nearly as much as you think. I continue to have an issue with pulling and re-listing recipes. If you toss something up for 20mil, you pay... ready?... 1mil to list it. If it sits there for a week, how many times did you lose that 1mil again? Pull it - even when it hurts, and move on. This was and is hard for me still. I'll get over it
• For the incredibly lazy, such as me, make yourself a chart. Charts are good, m'kay? My chart is in excel and lists the purchase price for recipes. Then, based on whether or not the recipe requires a rare salvage, it has a set sell price. I look at what they are currently going for, and if I can get under the current selling price, its good. I may list something selling for 30mil at 16.3 because that's what my chart says. I'm ok with that. Making money is good. Making slightly less money with 0 effort is better
• Look at the lists others have provided. They aren't in every niche and you won't stomp on anyone's toes if you pop in and unload an enhancement or 2. If anything, re-evaluating their lists gives you a good idea of what "can" be good. I used Heff's and pulled a nice 100mil the other day while waiting for a friend to log in. Thanks Heff!

Well, there is my update. By Monday, my guide for the salvage flipping should be ready. And I should be good to go on documenting some marketeering for the lazy and mildly inept (<--- me!).

Thanks again everyone for all of the help!

So many literary references...

Necro:

Suzie Jones - 8 year old girl

The "dollies"

Mr. Happy (Lich)

Mr. Floofy (Grave Knight)
Mr. Giggles (Grave Knight)

Mr. Fluffykins (Horde)
Mr. Shuffles (Horde)
Mr. Slobbers (Horde)

Mr. Floaty (Soul extraction)

Many many many pet emotes on binds and in macros.

Story time! - The "dollies" all sit and Suzie reads them a story
Sacrifice time! - Dice rolls ensue! Lowest roll is sacrificed!
Dance party! - Well... duh.
Protest! - Any time we're angry about something

Pink puking zombies ftw!!

"Opulence, I has it!"

I was inspired last night. I am more inspired now.

In regards to salvage flipping and cornering the market:

If the item in question is common (white), the supply of said salvage is so huge, that it is nearly impossible to "corner" any market there.

If the item is uncommon, there are ways other than the market to obtain these. For 80 AE tickets, you can purchase any one that you like.

If the item is rare, once again, a person can use AE tickets (540) to purchase it.

Aside from AE tickets, a person can use merits to purchase salvage.

There is no possible way to control/dominate a salvage niche. You can play them all day long, but you cannot dominate one. There are simply too many options for players to obtain one through other means.

If you "did" manage to dominate a single slot, you would have to find that magic price where people will no longer seek your item through other means and stay just under that.

Let me pose this question:

Are you, the White Hat Marketeer, doing anything that someone couldn't potentially do in the first 10 minutes of playing the game?

You are using your knowledge to further your personal goals in this game. Does someone complain when a person learns all there is to know about a certain AT and then they build a monster by using that knowledge?

1 - You sell stuff
2 - People buy stuff
3 - There is NO requirement to buy anything ever in this game. Ever. For any reason.
4 - People want what you are selling. They do not need it. They are pissy because they want you to provide it to them for free. Not just cheap, but free. If general margins were 10% over the actual physical cost of purchasing the components (if a vendor would sell back what you sold them for example), people would still complain.
5 - I have never over paid for any enhancement. Ever. I'm cheap and frankly, I don't need anything RIGHT NAO!
6 - You have something (money) that they do not. Therefore, you are bad and they are not.They want what you have. They do not wish to work for it at all. Therefore, you are bad.
7 - The mentality of the people in this game is the same as in RL. "I don't know how you got X, but i don't have X, and therefore I will assume that you got X through nefarious deeds and underhanded behavior because that excuses me for my lack."


As for "saving them time and effort"...

If someone feels that clicking in a game is too much effort... well, I'm sure using the restroom is bit too much effort as well. And time... saving time...

It takes what... 2 minutes to buy all of the stuff and make an enhancement? Heck, let's say its 10. 10 minutes of your time is worth very little to your lazy butt if you can't be bothered to make something you want.

You are providing the lazy with a service. If this was an awful way to do business, Pizza Hut would stop coming to your house

I was curious, so I did a little testing of my own:

I have an Oblit proc in shield charge. It does indeed proc. Probably not the best power to put procs in because of the very long recharge, but if you're going for a full set, it doesn't hurt (it isn't a wasted slot)

No hate mail... yet.

I do get the occasional tell from someone who recognizes my name from the forum. Not all are bad.

I put my knowledge from here to work creating a new ebil marketeering minion... err helping someone sell their items.

I do not have a pic with the previously-mentioned 2bil, but I can send money back - that I sent off to make room to collect money - if someone requires that.

I present:

Demoralizer. (Yes, this is actually his name ) - A fully functional support character that debuffs the tar out of everything!!



Btw... I hate how image shack makes this insanely dark And I do not have my graphics programs loaded onto this comp yet. So I'm stuck with it *sigh*

Noteworthy Ebil Offerings:

I had a PvP drop that I wanted to sell. I offered it here on this exact forum btw . MANY nasty tells over price gouging for this one. (Nope, this isn't where I made all of this money. Its a portion of my vast empire *MUWAHAHAHAHA* but not even a significant portion)

I recently earned my 3 month vet badge. (yes 3)

Through ebil marketeering, I was able to outfit 8 characters exactly the way I wanted them. I have yet to find a build where purples would make it significantly better. I was not an efficient ebil marketeer at the time most of them were outfitted. I was just a patient shopper and a price-gouging seller.

In all of my random rolls on merits and AE tickets, I have gotten exactly 1 of the "big hitters". A LotG 7.5. Once. Nothing else. I did invest 600 reward merits in 3 LotG 7.5's a few weeks ago. These were slotted into one of my characters, not sold.

I do not have GR. I make my money the old fashioned way, I steal it

I'm cheap. Super cheap. I don't think you understand. I'm fanatically cheap. I *always* sell anything of any real value (1 mil plus) on every character. If I get a drop that I will use in my build, I sell it. Then buy it later for a fraction of what I paid for it. Yesterday was the first time I have ever crafted a drop I received and slotted it. Ever! (Note that I do not consider the purchased recipes above as "drops") What I have learned from these forums is only allowing me to sell faster and for better profits!

I have 2 "farmers". They both sit around and do pretty much nothing. I use them to PL my new characters to 24 or so. This takes me about 30 minutes. I find this doubly ebil in that a) I have farmers and b) said farmers don't farm.

I PL - Not because I need 50 50's. But because 1-24 is horrendously boring to me. I kick out my new 24's, take them for a test drive, and if I like what I see, I slot them up and play them. If not, DELETE! I currently have 3 level 50's. 2 Are my "farmers" and 1 is my first character. I hate that guy. Bad power choices ftl so I don't play him.

I have a level 8 character who has made 30 mil in the last 5 days off of your need to buy his chosen piece of salvage NOW! Thank you!

I have enough procs and such to outfit my next 15 characters sitting in a base. I paid no more than 5 mil each for these enhancements. Thank you market merger!

I cringe at anything costing more than 20 mil. If I really want that enhancement, I will find a way to get it for 20 mil (or less). The most I have ever paid for any enhancement or recipe is 75 mil. I was feeling generous, so I purchased a LotG 7.5 enhancement yesterday. I do not "gimp" my characters, and in general, it takes me only a short time to outfit them. Patience and planning ftw!

I am willing to teach anyone who wants to learn how to do this (on the small scale - I'm still working out the big-scale stuff).

Am I ebil enough?

Thank you for your consideration!

Congrats!

How many orphanages did you end up closing to get your billion?


(Totally kidding btw - I know they were retirement homes >.> <.< )

So... this 1 billion marker...

Does it need to be made on a single toon?

Can it only be accepted if you earn it by crafting and not through drops?

And I love those pictures