Minotaur
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Posts
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Quote:Global chat is cross faction, recommended channels are Australia and Antipodes (split off from Australia, I won't go into the politics). Yes most Oceanics appear to play on Justice.Originally Posted by Gulanzon
Hey guys, I'm a Gul, from Perth. I'm fresh out of WoW, and needed a new MMO addiction to stave off the boredom of a meaningless existence
I'm actually still downloading the game, lol. Only just found the DMG with all the files after trying to get the game downloaded through the updater. Eheheh
I'll probably be making a Huge dual blades scrapper, just because. (Well okay, so I saw a Huge dual blades character in a video and knew it was the path for me.)
Seems like all the Oceanic peeps hang out on Justice. Is the global chat channel cross-faction?
EDIT
Actually, is there an AT that lets me be a jack-of-all-trades kind of hybrid? Something I enjoyed in low-level WoW was that hybrids in group play could jump in and do whatever was needed if the character fulfilling one of the specific roles carked it or was somehow disabled. -
Quote:The problem is not getting 24 people (we've run many rikti mothership raids out of hours), but you need 24 with the right mix of ATs (or at least a critical mass of some of them), and that is asking too much at that sort of time. Of the 24 people who did the one I did, (and some had done it before, so we did have a handle on the tactics) about 16 said that the trial was not worth doing again until it was changed. I found it no fun at all at any point, and we did an OK but not brilliant job of the first phase. Would it really be too much to ask to drop insps off mobs so we don't have to exit the zone to res and can for short periods pop some purples,oranges and greens to avoid being 2 shotted all the time.Originally Posted by Amygdala
Sorry you have missed out on successful CoP runs. I have read of successful runs on Justice and Victory, so it is my impression that they have been happening. The times may not be convenient for you due to the time zone difference, but it is understandable that content requiring multiple teams of people would be forming up at peak hours.
We have been running them on Champion, mostly impromptu and PuG for a while, and have been successful at both AVs without the use of nukes. So if the first one you attended did not work out, don't let it sour you on the entire trial. Things get better as more people gain experience with it.
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Quote:You just don't have a clue do you. Let me spell it out in smaller words.Originally Posted by Donna_
The reasons I listed are alot more probable to be the reason.
I don't see how RMT'ers would have any more advantage tbh than they do now... They still do as you said..
I have an account with 30 toons across 2 servers.
I want some high level toons on 2 more servers and some inf.
At the moment, I have to hand over my password to the RMTers, or get them to sell me an account and then I have to pay for two if I want both sets of toons.
If we could merge accounts, I only have to pay for one, and this method would become the method of choice for people who don't want to hand over their password, or do anything visible to the ingame logs. -
Quote:The problem with this is that on the less popular servers outside of US peak, you don't get the team you want. I play on Victory and Justice, and while I've been in game (and I normally play 8-10 hours most days, a bit less atm as I'm coming up to exams), I haven't seen ANY "w00t we finished the CoP" messages and I'm in quite a few of the global channels where those messages might turn up. I'm in the UK, so I log off before US peak in the evening.Originally Posted by Amygdala
Lots of different ATs/power sets can be useful on this trial. So it's less a question about which ones are appropriate and more a question of how the teams are assembled (i.e. are they balanced). Generally, you want a good strong mix of buffs, debuffs and damage.
If you check out the guide in my sig, there is a section where I've tried to break down teams further to show what a happy balance is and how team balance relates to parts of the strategy.
Regarding the use of Ventrilo, it is not necessary, but helpful. I have had several people join CoPs I've lead that couldn't use Vent, and I simply typed things out for them. I generally advise people to at least listen in on Vent if possible, because once the trial is explained, coordinating people after that is as simple as "Buff up"......"Ok, attack"......
The one attempt I made foundered on the purple aspect, we had 3 full teams of 50s but insufficient buff/debuff. Also I don't like tasks that make certain power sets completely useless. Try playing an energy aura toon on it, no fun, might have had a chance if we had some inspirations dropping. -
Quote:That's the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.Originally Posted by Misaligned
Ok - everyone really needs to stop with this. In relative terms, the CoP is hard. FOR THIS GAME.
Every encounter is exactly the same in this game. Smash stuff, kill an AV. Here they offer you content which requires the absolute minimum of coordination and the player's solution to this problem is: Get a bigger hammer. This is always the solution to any problem in this game becuase that's how the Dev's have chosen to make it. Its cake people. It really is.
I did this encounter for the first time and I laughed my *** off. This is what passes for hard in this game. The group I was with was trying to figure out how to kill the first wave of spawns (before the shield ever comes down on the AV) faster. They didn't address taking them down faster between shields - they simply wanted to take down the first group faster. The only group of spawns that just doesn't matter. Not one bit.
When I pointed out that we could easily finish the CoP, it was cancelled "because not everyone brought nukes like they were supposed to!".
This is the reason nukes got banned. 99% of the runs of CoP were requiring that you not only be X AT, but that you have nukes, shivs, boards with nails in them, anything and everything that could constitute a bigger hammer.
We were talking about this trial today on a global channel and you know what someone said? They said "Without nukes, how are we supposed to take down the AV in 45 seconds?!"
Big hint:
You're not.
*gasp*
The rewards are fine - its a 15 minute trial. It something that will be run later when people learn how to do this REALLY HARD thing on a whim, like the impromptu mother ship raids that happen now. And the pug CoPs will be done in less time than it takes to get the 24 people together. 10 merits for 20 minutes of your time is not all that bad - most servers can't run the ITF in 20 minutes - so it works out.
Heck, I'm sure in a few months someone will have this down so pat that they might even do a CoP run at least once a week if not more for the "quick merits".
People still kill Hami - obviously getting people together to do things (on most servers) is not an issue.
Part of it may be true in US peak time on a high pop server. You try getting 24 people together at say 5AM eastern on Victory or Justice (Australian prime time, my mornings). We've tried it precisely once, spent the full hour and got nowhere close to killing the AV.
All I got was the debt cap's worth of debt and an empty inspiration tray.
Balanced team ? we had to take what we had, which meant not enough buff/debuff. Nukes could up to now have done something about that.
Quick CoP run will not happen certainly vill side as the respec is faster, as well rewarded AND drops purples. Hero side, I get as many merits/hour by doing other TFs, and can do them without spending the time assembling 24 people (40 minute manti/50 minute numi/60 minute old posi).
I dislike it because of the lack of drops, and the fact that the choice of mobs makes some powersets completely worthless. I made the mistake of bringing an energy aura toon, no psi protection and massive to-hit buffs on the badguys, I might as well have not had a defensive set other than the mez protection.
I have not seen a Hami raid on either of the servers that I frequent at a time other than 1am/2am my time. -
Quote:Then you don't understand what high end farming or marketeering can do. Across 4 toons that actively marketeer, I generate around 1BN a week at a cost of about half an hour a day of my play time, maybe less, and there are people way better at it than me.Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Guess we have to agree to disagree then. I have a cpl of toons IOd up for TFs and PvP...but even with what you guys are saying (and it makes sense) I just dont see how there are ppl running like 3-6 toons in zone PvP with IO bonus' 8 pages long and not using RMT service.
If you're good at working the market, I wouldn't imagine that unless you have lots of full sets of PvP IOs (in which case you probably farm them), you're going to spend much more than 10BN on a build, so if you marketeer like I do, you can churn out 5 of those a year. -
Quote:If it required nukes and shivans then nobody would have the MoLRSF badge and plenty do. They certainly make it easier though.Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Anything that requires nukes to beat needs a revisit(I'ma lookin' at you, LRSF!)
My concerns with CoP are A) that you all but require vent or equivalent (which I can't use, I'm very often playing in the room above somebody who's sleeping). B) not everybody is an expert at this, there are much easier mobs to farm if that's your intention, so why give no drops at all. If you fail, you get nothing for an hour killing some of the toughest mobs in the game. There is no reason not to give normal drops off the kills, which would mean some marginal teams on the smaller servers would have a chance with their insps refilling, and if you fail, you still get your normal drops for killing a load of 52s. -
Quote:No it doesn't if the customer wasn't going to pay for the second account anyway as in this case. The reason they won't do it is much more fundamental than that. It would make life much easier for the RMT brigade.Originally Posted by Donna_
Don't see them doing this tbh, Merging accounts at customers request costs them money... money from the account that you wouldn't be paying each month as your down to one, or money that you would be spending recreating those characters and time spent,
So it's pretty much shooting themselves in the foot to offer this....
OK, I'll give you $x and you make me these 6 lvl 50s on these servers on a new account each with 500M inf, then I'll merge the account with mine etc. Would make catching RMTers pretty difficult. -
Quote:And the late great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q401R0JtuFw who did it many years before.Originally Posted by Agonus
There's also Otep, the girl from The Agonist, and Lucia from KMFDM.
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Quote:Nah, some of the most fun I had on this game was taking a team 1-50 in a double XP weekend.Originally Posted by PC_guy
because theres no point in leveling anything up quickly to make use of double xp?
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Quote:Would agree with you IF there was an in game constructive use for a recipe (like you could deconstruct it and get some salvage out or something, I don't consider the negligible amount of vendor inf to fall into that category). There isn't, a recipe and an IO ARE the same item as far as using them for anything other than making inf goes.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Flipping in the context of this forum has a very specific, well defined & universally accepted meaning.
Flipping and crafting are not even roughly comparable and the have a VASTLY DIFFERENT 'effect'- flipping recirculates raw material through the market, crafting destroys raw materials in the creation of IOs.
Not even close to the same thing.
Maybe the forum cognoscenti use the terms precisely, but out in the chat channels the word flipper is used to describe both practices. -
Quote:The flippers have always been there, but mainly on the level 40s for HH because those are most common and have the biggest market. I used to deliberately target the slightly lower level ones precisely because they were way cheaper and nobody seemed to be flipping them. This is a large part of what has changed. Again you talk about level 30 triages, max level.Originally Posted by Wyatt_Earp
All of the heal recipes have always been popular. (and incidentally, a great place to make inf) I know I've made influence buying L30 Triage recipes and salvage (the sum of which costs practically nothing; maybe 30,000 per) and selling them for 2mill each ever since IOs were introduced. I haven't done this in a while, since I've got more influence than I know what to do with, but just because you think flippers/crafters haven't been there, doesn't mean they haven't.
My perception of this without any evidence to back it up is that there were always flippers/crafters, but there were few enough of them in the early days that they could exist in the best niches, and if you weren't buying the REALLY desirable items, you didn't see them. Now more people are market savvy, and so people are having to spread to more areas to make inf and the flippers/crafters are a lot more visible. -
Quote:Stop being a language nazi, many people use flipping for both flipping and crafting as they have a VERY similar effect. Player A's recipe ends up as player B's slotted enhancement after player C has made a profit in the middle.Originally Posted by seebs
Again, crafting is not flipping. People who put even fairly trivial time and effort into converting things from raw materials to finished products are not "flipping" those things. They're doing work. Doesn't matter that it's "unskilled" labor or whatever -- it's still work.
There's a whole lot of crazy superstition going on here. Seriously, WTF:
Again, flipping isn't crafting. But... Seriously, lots of people bid exactly whatever the last sale was at. For that matter, maybe some guy did bid that price on ten of the recipes, and got a bunch of 'em. So.... So what, exactly? You could have had that recipe at any time by bidding 186,775. If you didn't, it's because you didn't want to pay as much for the recipe as that guy did, so why should the sellers be penalized just because you object to people crafting?
On the other side of things: Crafting is sorta tedious. It can take a bunch of running back and forth figuring out what all the salvage you need is, and how many of them you need, and then realizing that you need an orange that's 3 million inf, and so on... And if you make 50M just doing the normal stuff you do while running around hanging out with your friends, why not just buy the crafted enhancement and save the time?
... Which is to say, it's exactly like why I buy a lot of premade stuff that I could cook myself. I know how to make homemade pizza. I can make dough, I can make sauce. I can make really nice pizza that I love to eat. On the other hand, it takes time. And I'd usually rather just toss a frozen pizza in the oven and get back to what I was doing.
Somebody bid that strange number on at least 4 of the last 5 purchases across each of 6 levels (and maybe more, I only checked those 6). The effect on me is that I have to pay 200K if I want one, not a disaster, but 180K more than I would have had to pay without the crafter.
Read my posts, I don't hate crafters, it's how I make my billions these days, and I've made billions flipping salvage in the past although haven't done that for a while. I just dislike having to do it to be able to afford stuff that I used to be able to fund with normal play. I'm not somebody who wants lots of purples on every toon, I have one purpled out permadom, but most of my builds are not cheap but not silly, and I can't get close to funding them just through normal play while I used to be able to do so.
Not all of that is anything to do with flippers, some of it is the cottoning on that certain sets are actually rather good (kinetic combat) combined with the introduction of new and desirable powersets that use particular sets (VEATs with red fortunes). That was why I did my research on the set I did, but serendipity also followed the same pattern. -
Quote:If it makes you feel better there was an even more spectacular example of what you did not that long ago. A sportscaster in New Orleans said if the Saints made the superbowl he'd dance through the French quarter in a dress. This was many years ago and said sportscaster is no longer with us, but his promise was kept by his successor on the sports program ex Saints quarterback Bobby Hebert, and tens of thousands came to watch and join in.Originally Posted by Dante
Did you ever have one of those days when you just want to disappear under a rock for a bit?
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-fa...ds-288138.html -
Now the old thread had justifiably got nuked, to repost the important information:
Antipodes is a new channel for Oceanics.
The mods are @Plantatia, @Metacore and @Minotaur.
What's it for ? General chat, help and events/TFs etc
Why form it ? Because it appears to have been decided that we're not allowed to be in the Australia channel unsilenced for more than a couple of days at a time, and we've got fed up with it. Basically we run the 3 regularly scheduled events Mon-Wed-Fri and if we can't talk in Australia, they fall a bit flat. -
Quote:I've published some research in an area I wouldn't expect to be popular a while ago, harmonised healing 32-27 or something of that sort. I forget the precise details, but this is the sense of it. I found that there were no recipes for sale and a plentiful supply of crafted IOs at 2-3M each, and a very large proportion of the last week's recipe sales across those levels were at exactly the same strange price, 186774 or some such. That to me is evidence of a flipper/crafter in an odd place.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
How do you know there were ever fewer flippers/crafters? Lower population does not mean that subpopulation had to change at all.
Also WHICH market do you refer to with those 18 months? We used to have 2 now we have 1. I would also point out the current environment is heavily tilted towards 1-20 with Praetoria in high demand and at other times people were in MA getting PLed madly to the top.
I seem to recall common arcane salvage prices were much higher then. Luck Charms seem to be much lower now than they were in the blue market for years.
Do you see that people claim flippers at work only in the areas they are looking at? Is it even believable that it is all flippers versus supply and demand with the flippers swimming where the fish are?
Salvage has always been flipped, but I think more people are in on the recipe game now.
I was referring to both markets, I operated in both and while there were some differences between them, the patterns were broadly similar.
I think the market has become more cut-throat with the merger, with the same number of people chasing half as many niches. Some would have been chasing them both sides, but others would have mainly oprated on one, so the competition will hav increased. -
Quote:What you're describing has started to happen more since the market merge, but I have sold thousands of crafted IOs to say that it's still profitable, and after a week the price often goes back where it was before.Originally Posted by Misaligned
And I can state for a far that no flipper is buying these high demand recipes in bulk. At least not in the bulk that you believe is driving up prices.
Here's what happens "if" you try and do that (from personal, recent experience):
I find a niche. The niche looks good, so I bid on 2-3 recipes and make the enhancements. I sell the enhancements for a profit. I decide this is great, then bid on 10 of those recipes for the same price. They move, which i'm counting on, but people seeing that the last 5 sold are no longer 5 mil but 3 mil... start bidding 3 mil. The people listing for under 3 mil see that they sell fairly quickly at that level and jack the price to 4 mil (i wants mah money!). Eventually, the recipe goes up to say 7 mil.
Meanwhile, due to all of this activity on the recipe, the enhancement that *was* selling for 15 mil now drops to 12 - someone decided to make a buck and undercut my 13mil listings. Enough sell at 12 that it becomes the new "price" for this enhancement. I have a bunch of these things now - and I pull them and re-list for 8 to get them to sell.
A few start selling for 10 mil and the recipes are now up to 7 mil - mostly from people looking to list their items slightly above what the last 5 sold for. We have now reached a point where a previously under-valued recipe has come up to 7 mil and a "flipper" (most people here will prefer you call them crafters) need to list their enhancements at cost to get them to sell. Indeed, that's all they are worth now.
Crafters being in that market brought up the price of the recipe and brought down the price of the enhancement. If you're angry because you can no longer buy a recipe for less than vendored pricing, I suggest grief counseling or something else for your tragic loss.
I'm not whining about it, I've made an 11 digit sum in various ways off the market. I just regret the passing of the premium on patience. Nobody's saying you should be able to buy recipes at less than vendor prices (about 3K in the case of the recipes I was talking about), but you used to be able to get almost all the non uber desirable uncommon recipes at 30-35 assuming the sets went higher than that for 20K if you waited. Allow for inflation in the general market, if I could still get my reactive armors for 100K I wouldn't be complaining. -
Quote:Missing the point that the market DID function with a hell of a lot less flipper/crafters so the low bids DID fill for a good 18 months or so. That's why people don't see those expectations as totally unrealistic.
Originally Posted by Minotaur
No, it's not a valuable service to ALL. It's a valuable service to many, but the person it negatively impacts is the person who placed very low bids and was willing to wait a month for them to fill.
Quote:Unrealistic expectations are made to be dashed on the harsh shoreline of reality.
Price is a useful gauge of how badly someone wants something.
If you don't really want it (i/e, you make an unrealistically low bid), why should you get it ahead of people who DO want it (i/e, who make realistic bids)? -
Quote:It's been nuked in the last 10 minutes.Originally Posted by LISAR
Link hurry!
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Quote:Yup, just getting the beer and sandwiches in to see what the mods do with the thread in another part of the forums where one poster accused another by name of being a paedophileOriginally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
The mods aren't around on weekends, so threads that would ordinarily be swiftly locked/deleted get a two day immunity. It expires Mondays.
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Quote:Different items to some extent, no flipper is going to touch temporal analysers because they commonly sell below vendor price and there's no money to be made, the supply of those comes from people selling for badges. It blurs at the edges, a level 34 run of the mill "boring but useful" non top end uncommon set recipe you used to be able to pick up for next to nothing as people just got rid of them. Now even quite a few of those are not being flipped, but are being crafted and resold for a 7 figure amount. I consider this the same as flipping (it converts stacks of other peoples' recipes into somebody else's IO for my profit, much the same as flipping the recipe does) although I know some others don't.Originally Posted by DSorrow
That's why I said "pretty much everyone else". I believe people who want to sell items for influence outnumber those who sell items for badges by far.
Also if I had the choice of buying (say, example not intended to be accurate but the sentiment is right) an unquenchable flame for 2000 any time I wanted one except the 1 time in 20 when there weren't any (when the bid would fill overnight), or having to pay 15000+ most of the time, I think I'd take the former. The benefits of flipping are overstated.
I was talking more about recipes/IOs than salvage, where stuff goes for a LOT more than 2M. I can live with the salvage prices to ensure supply. What I struggle with is things like top level reactive armors selling at 5-10M a recipe when I used to buy them at 10K, and steadfast protection res/defs, for which I never paid more than 500K for a long time.Quote:The only stuff that is actually worth flipping is stuff that has enough supply that its price won't really go that high. A couple of million for something isn't out of any level 50's budget.
Suffice it to say that as somebody who very rarely farms, and tends to play in large teams at levels below 50 when he can, thus minimising his income to some extent, and is used to being very patient with bids, the benefits of flippers are dubious at best for me. I counter by crafting recipes and reselling the IOs in the buy at 3-6M sell at 10-20M type range. -
Quote:If the assumptions behind this were true, then some of the stuff that followed from it would be true.Originally Posted by DSorrow
But for what reason do you sell stuff? To make a buck. Just like pretty much everyone else.
Flippers make stuff worth selling. If I know a common salvage has 0 bidding and 1k for sale, I'll just delete it while doing missions to make space for more valuable salvage. If, however, I know that its price range is 50k (what the flipper and patient people pay) to 100k (what everyone else pays), I'll keep it and post it for sale. And increase supply.
They raise the lowest amount of inf people will get from selling the item and decrease the highest, all while ensuring that there'll be a steady supply. I call this a win, because I'd rather pay a slightly elevated price if I know I can get the item whenever I want, rather than sometimes pay a low price, sometimes an outrageous price (say, 500k-1mil for a common) and sometimes not get one at all.
A) people sell to get badges as well as to make a fast buck, this is one of the reasons stuff sells at below vendor prices on a regular basis. I know a lot of people who will sell their common salvage/low level common recipes rather than vendor them to get sales badges and to list them really low to ensure a quick sale.
B) But if that steady supply is at a price that is more than I'm prepared/able to pay, meaning the item is now completely unavailable to me, whereas before it simply took time but I would eventually get one, how has this improved my market experience ?
There are pluses and minuses to flipping, mainly pluses but saying it's wonderful for everybody is just wrong.
Can probably be summed up by if you buy it nao or nearly nao, flippers are a great boon, the amount flippers suck is in proportion to the patience of the buyer. -
Quote:No, it's not a valuable service to ALL. It's a valuable service to many, but the person it negatively impacts is the person who placed very low bids and was willing to wait a month for them to fill. There were plenty of people who used to list even some decent recipes for little inf to get an instant sale for their sales badges. A long while ago, but not in the real early days of the market, I IOd out a reasonably high end Kat/SR for 6M. I was bidding on most of the recipes across several toons from when that toon started. Even allowing for inflation, the equivalent would be much more difficult to do nowadays because of flippers.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
oh well, facts are facts.
to elucidate:
the flipper PAID MORE than you were willing to pay, which is a benefit to the seller.
and the flipper LISTED FOR LESS than anyone else was willing to list, which is a benefit to the buyer.
The flipper also maintains steady supply, which is a valuable service to all.
Flippers also do not list for less than anybody is prepared to list for, they list for less than most people are willing to list for, if 6 a day sell at a given price, they're not too worried if a couple of non flippers sell another one or two in the meantime because they put them up for less. -
Quote:Yeah, and their trains kept better timeOriginally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Didn't the fascists have better uniforms and engineering though?
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Quote:Not that helpful here.Originally Posted by Nitra
Set Bonuses are constant percent benefits, unaffected by the level of the enhancement. Set Bonuses are lost when a character exemplars more than three levels below the level of the Invention Enhancement. An Invention Enhancement's level affects the strength of its basic enhancement bonus.
The only IO's that keep their properties no matter what level you are exempt down to are unique sets.
Hope this helps
If the -KB was from a set bonus (kinetic crash etc) you'd have to have the power to get the set bonus and the IO would heve to be 3 or less levels above your exemp level.
If it's a straight -KB IO (karma etc) then you don't need the power available, but the IO needs to be the level you're exemped to or less (possibly +3, not 100% sure).