MikeRobe

How do you propose to solo GMs/AVs without high ST damage?... just curious.

no, the pseudo pet is not taking the damage, the mob is and it can be seen in the combat log. I think the issue is where the damage number floating is happening (this is of course just a guess, I've not been under the map to see if this is the case or not.) I do know for sure that the power is spherical. You can see this in any map with an elevated platform... this might actually be the right place to test it tbh. I don't have any procs on my /time trollers yet, you'd need something that can hold a mob (or a damageable object) use just DF with procs to test.

More likely it is something in the power "summoned patch" than in the mob or the proc. It is a sphere, it is quite possible the floating number is just happening below the terrain.

And you added to it.

right, KB does not help kill the bad guys. It controls them, rag dolling them so that they cannot attack you or the team. AOE Holds don't help kill the bad guys either (except for volcanic gas, that has a minor dot) but every controller takes their aoe hold.

Also, you'll find that almost all powers with knock in them do damage... that does help kill the baddies, right? There are exceptions of course, but the powers that knock and do no damage all have some other control in there (stun, -to hit etc). I am not aware of any power in the game that does knockback and nothing else.

In my experience it is. If the mobs are on their back they cannot attack me or the team. If they're knocked into a wall or corner, they're still tightly packed for the fireballs. So, no, I don't trust you here.
The scrapper would have been just fine without anybody on the team.
I added the bold above to the "There is absolutely..." because that's the point I want to address. There are many situations where KB is a valid solution. Don't tell me you've never been in a team wipe when the tanker falls. Knock can give people time to get away. Knock can give people time to help get the tanker back on his feet.

As for single target knock...

Giving people crap over single target knocks that throw an individual from a "dumpster burn" is also detrimental to the team. And your energy blaster using power burst is doing twice the damage to the individual that he peels out of the group as your fireball is doing to that individual mob. Only one guy that a single-target player wants to kill does not hurt the team. Of course, given the dumpster burn pov anybody with a kb power should stand at the door and /em dance I guess.

In your opinion. That's the problem here.... you're (seeming) religiously anti-kb as much as I was appearing religiously pro. It gets people shouting past one another and not discussing solutions. "It sux!" "It rox!" doesn't accomplish anything in this discussion.

Of course I'm splitting hairs. I know how the mechanism works. But the fact of the matter is if you look at the power it is KB. The anti KB crowd can say it isn't as long as they give it a new name - but that's not the power effect.

meh... I'm coming off as religiously pro-kb... I'm not actually. I like it, I know lots of other people don't, I think people should learn how to use it before poo-pooing it.

I remain against the idea of being able to turn off kb from a power by speaking to a npc. I like the idea of a -mag KB enhancer that was proposed upstream.

Ok oh wizard of the power set... what happens if you slot 2 kb enh in Footstomp? Doesn't matter that nobody would or does.... what happens? Tell me its still knockDOWN because if it were KnockDOWN KB enh couldn't possibly change that.

This is true, you do not get aoe -res. I wish it were def against lethal and melee instead of smash/melee... esp at lower levels. Those hellions and their dang guns.... grrr. At least at higher levels you can goad the different mobs into melee.

So far, I'm happier with my scrap than my tank with TW. May be different at higher levels. My stj tanker is better than my stj scrapper... maybe it is secondary issues?

Or name them closed beta / open beta... less confusion that way (for a dummeh like me anyway)

Agreed, but it was the only limit on the market that I was aware of. I may be completely wrong, but if he was buying them as he was spending them, this *may* have been the restriction he's talking of. Oh loook a dime! *placate & run*

If you used the kb properly and someone gave you an unsavory comment about it, did you ask them what you did wrong in knocking the mob/spawn in a pile at their feet? Maybe they were knee-jerking because there was a knock at all; which is usually my experience with elegant knocks as well. Educate people who don't understand and maybe you'll see less of those unsavory comments. This is why I disagree with an option to turn it off. An option to reduce it via slot choices... OK but not turn it off by just speaking with an npc.