Mercury_Down
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Posts
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Joined
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What are your in-game Globals?: @Mercury Down, @Mercury Down2
What are your PvP characters?: PEACEBRINGER, Psi/Em, Psi/Dev, Ice/Dev, Cold/Dark, Mind/Therm, Ill/Emp, PEACEBRINGER, Elec/SS, Sonic/Pain, Earth/Energy, PEACEBRINGER, and a few fightclub toons. We are going to fightclub right?
Which of these characters are on Freedom?: All of them.
Are you willing to respec into a better PvP build?: Sure.
Are you willing to roll a new character if needed?: Sure.
Do you have a mic and ventrillo?: Yes mam!
What is your general day/time availability?: 8:30 pm EST+
Briefly describe your PvP experience: Zone, the Last FPVPL, doolz, facepunch.
List a few character names of PvP toons you play: Pax Absentia, Dynamic Salvo, Mercury Down, Mercury Salvo, Pax Dementia, PureBlind, Shark Wrangler, Shark Puncher, Hooge Kleetaurus, Sinister Salvo, Foibles. -
Haha yeah typo I meant to put around 55, but yeah...
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Quote:Yeah Now that I think about it I see that. As an example a invuln tank can hit 90% res to smashing without any set bonuses and that's DR'd to about 65ish.Originally Posted by Lucky666
DR effects enhancements to. It hits everything. Arcanaville knows the math pretty well. If this helps http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=249876
its like 2 below the positron post.
I guess I was blinded by my hatred of DR and not thinking straight
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Quote:I question this...Originally Posted by Antigonus
Because of DR, there won't be that significant of a difference for the Alpha slot. Where you would see the biggest improvement would be in areas that aren't already max slotted, such as endurance or recharge. I have seen quite a few people who think that the alpha slot allows them to bypass a portion of DR because of the poor wording in the discriptions. The alpha slot only ignores a portion of the DR that is applied to the enhancements themselves, not to the PvP DR that is applied to the total power. Using the damage or accuracy alpha for instance will most likely only net you a couple of percentage points improvement after PvP DR is applied. Not really noticable in most cases.
My understanding of DR is it affects affects buffs and debuffs as well as set bonuses and global bonuses but not enhancement values themselves. Enhancement values are already afffected by Enhancement Diversification. As the higher tier alphas are affected less and less by ED then the more bonus you will be getting. So if two thirds of the 45% damage alpha ignores ED then you will be getting a 30% bonus no matter what. If you are already close to the ED cap (?) then you'll be looking at 130% damage unaffected by DR.
Again this is based on my understanding on DR only affecting buffs, debuffs and set and global bonuses.
I am sure I will be corrected by someone who knows more than I on the subject if I am incorrect. -
Just and FYI, your pets are level shifted if you are. So that does give a boost to pet users since their pets will now do more damage and be slightly tougher to kill.
It also works the other way... Pets that are not level shifted will be taking more damage from level shifted players. -
I like all of you.
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Oz is fat.
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Quote:I am talking defense, not resistance. Tough plus high defense will give your Ice tank some great survivavility when combined with Ice Armor's other tools (hoarfrost, hibernate.) A well built/played ice tank should live through just about any situation. Getting kills is another issue but that is common for tanks in general. Disruption is the name of the game.Originally Posted by trainway1
The most S/L resistance I could get was around 30%. When I was making an Invol/SS I got it up to 68%. I guess Ice just isn't even worth it at all sadly.
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SS is still the best tanker secondary around for zone or duels. Slotting for ranged defense on an Ice tank is not going to get very far since Ice Armors are typed defense not positional and as such your elusivity is typed as well.
Building for smash/lethal is your best bet all around but if you are going to fightclub S/L is really all you need (55% def is what you should shoot for but getting all of them up there can be a challenge while maintaing a decent build.) If you are going to spend time in zones then also get as much energy/negative and psi def as you can.
Hp and Recharge, taunt, some ranged attacks and you are set. -
Km/Regen with speed, concealment, leadership, fighting and body or weapons mastery.
Alertnatively you could take speed, leadership, fighting, and leviathan (hiber, and spout for the DOT and -Def.) KM will most likely get a nerf at some point but it could take awhile. CS on scrappers is stupid damage when compared to the other ATs.
I am a huge fan of DM/SR but anything with tactics, FA/Targeting Drone, the kismet proc, and build up/siphon power is going to hit you through Elude fairly reliably.
For tanks, taking anything other than SS you probalby won't defeat anything. I like Shield/SS and do quite well on it in fight club, but stacked quicksand will ruin your day.
Fire/SS is still good provided you also take aid self and/or concealment.
Anything with phase/hiber should not be killable.
I suspect a */KM tank with 50ish resists and 3k+ HP would be very difficult to kill but I don't think the tank would have enough damage to beat that many toons.
Regen is probably the overall best FC secondary but I'd put a well built SR or even EA against it any day of the week.
Sappers can still be troublesome but they are not what they used to be since i19. -
Quote:I can tell you there was and is alot more experimenting done that you think there is. My own experiments with SR scrappers have revealed getting to 40% def (after DR) is capable if you can get to 58-60% pre-dr. Building beyond that will take away from your effectiveness in many respects (loss of HP, Rech, etc...) Using Elude, that 40% DR'd defense will jump to appx 55% (which is around 150ish pre-DR'd Def if I remember correctly.) That 55% can be hit through fairly reliably with 100 to 105% to hit and around 60 added global accuracy (so 1.6 Acc.) That is with 10% elusivity. EA's tier 9 adds another 30 (?) elusivity which I have not had enough experience with to comment on.Originally Posted by Dahjee
Sounds reasonable. The system is indeed complex, but the purpose of it is very simple and I remain shocked at how this passes over so many heads. Is it easy reach all round postional defense of 48% solo? Is is possible without a T9? Isn't it a noticable and significant buff to sit above 45% def in PvP? If it were easy to reach def of 60 and 70% when it could very well nullify acc like back in the day... wouldn't everyone do it? If you didn't have to spend 10 billion to get so-so defense because you could expect to be buffed over 45% anyway... would you still consider buff bots useless?
Well... now you forgot to mention what each of those controllers numbers would be with 5 sets of bubbs each. I'm not a numbers guys, but I bet in comparision to the /SR, such buffs would be as significant because of DR. Not to mention 6 cages to isolate a single foe, 6 force bubb, dispersion fields, taunt, etc etc...
Overall my point was that things like this aren't being played with... so there becomes little to base the whining on.
A squishy is going to be capped out around 20% even with 5 bubbles on him. They might as well have no bubbles against buffed opponents. So while everyone ignores the scrapper they can drop trollers to their hearts content as the trollers attempt to coordinate cages. Why would you use 5 cagers to keep one person caged when you can do it with one grav/bubbler?
Have you spent any time on an organized team using vent? If so, you know it can be a challenge just to get 5 people to lock on a target and spike him at the same time let alone caging multiple targets at the same time to interrupt a spike.
As you should know, many of the PVPers in this game spend a great deal of time talking to each other. What each of us have discovered on an individual basis and what we have discovered as a group is shared among the community (either through chat channels, team sites, or here on the forums.) And when something new is dicovered it does not take long before it is capitalized by everyone (ie: look at psi/ems or now km/regens in zone.) You've read the forums (I think?) but seem to ignore we do actually try out and talk about different combinations and even more is done on individual team sites.
Dahjee, you have compared people's idea of fun to what is "easy." I had fun pre-i13, and I have fun post-i13, but I had more fun when it was "easier" to evade pre-i13. Yeah it was easier. There is the flip side to that, it was also "harder" to defeat my opponents who could also evade with similar "ease" and I still had more fun then than I do now.
The fast movement of pre-i13 was what made it fun for me and I think for many others. Now it is slow... slow... slow. I would have higher degress of fun if they reverted travel suppresion to pre-i13 status, and removed heal decay, removed global resists and DR. Powers would actually work the way they are described, what a concept. The other stuff I can live with. -
I'll captain an all Peacebringer team if I can get the bodies. Will we win? No. Will we have fun? Yes.
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Please stop Feeding him Tokyo. Maybe he will starve and die.
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The fact that we are still here means we have indeed won this league simply by outlasting all the other teams. Congrats Convenient on winning the crown by default! Goooo perseverance!
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Quote:Nova is great for zones in most cases but any concentrated fire on you and your going to drop. Yeah you can switch out to pop the human heals but why take the time to switch those forms and interrupt your damage when you can just stay in human and keep pouring it on? That's my personal preference anyway.Originally Posted by QuantumTrance
Horrible! waste of influence, should hand it over and i'll make it way cheaper and tri form... I use all three forms on mine, Child of The Atom. Nova should be your primary damage, dwarf to escape, and human to browse around...
Human form is viable when proc'd out and is much more durable than even dwarf now with i19. The only reason to take dwarf now is for the heal and the TP for escape (not that I would have recommended it for anything other than that before i19.)
With i19 you can easily fit leadership and fighting in a human form PB. That will give you anywhere from 45-50 res in PVP (to all) depending on slotting. With lightform you'll be floating between 55-58 to all but psi.
As Dawun says above, there are many ways to build and play your PB in PVP. Mostly human is mine, others will find success with other builds. -
Quote:They do actually have Psi resist built into Quantum Shield. That and tough and a three/four of the +psi res IOs and you have 85% before DR.Originally Posted by QuantumTrance
Kheldians should never have to die in battle unless ganked by a group. And even so, they are escape artists if done right... three heals, lots of damage from Nova, and good res on human form. only weakness for kheldian should be psy damage, they have no res to that what so ever... but even so, all the heal and high hp should do it to stay alive and or kill...
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[Power:Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance.50]
PM me or shoot me a tell in game with offers
**Edit the Healing IO is now sold, so just the proc left, thanks! -
Quote:Stay away from crack.Originally Posted by Sbane12
1. lower npcs in RV by 75 percent
2. remove heavies from effecting players
3. cause an MMs pets to instantly tp with the MM
after being hit by tp foe, but only in off mode
4. reduce range on all psi blast powers to 40 feet
except mental blast and will dom, but make increase
will doms cd to 120 seconds base
5. change functionality of spirit shark in mako pool to
a sniper attack, with interuptable cast time etc, and bring
moonbeam up to equal base damage as shark
6. increase damage on dark blast powers
7. change kinetics tier 1 heal and drain power
(i forget name), to heal AOE around the caster and not
the target
8. increase cast time on fire blast powers, and lower damage accordingly, so the dpa will remain the sam1
9. increase damage on DP powers quite a bit, to make them on par
and viable with such ani times,
10. increase resist and def soft cap for defenders, and corrs, before being effected extreme DR
11. reduce damage on blaster villain mako KOB, and obviously
KMs CS -
SS is still king for tanks.
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I'll also donate some stuff. I believe I can be around to participate too.
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Quote:Great! I'll keep an eye out for yaOriginally Posted by Sentry4
I don't have test, or i once did but got rid of it for more space. But i'll move my claws over to freedom this weekend, since he's fought everyone on virtue and every duel is just a reduel.
Lt. Colonel Bahn, i'll be in RV perhaps tomorrow, definitely saturday or sunday unless something goes wrong. And this goes out to anyone who wants a duel
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Quote:My bad, I guess our definitions of "Fightclub" differ. My understanding of FC has always been melee on melee, otherwise it's just...dueling. All of my advice is based on the understanding that the OP was looking for a 1v1 melee on melee. If he wants a more well-rounded dueling build then I would have vastly different advice.Originally Posted by Sentry4
I talk about colds and debuffs because apparently some tanks are starting to use cold mastery to slow you down, and i've fought some cold melee or ice armor tanks before. Those are extremely rare though so they don't matter too too much, but when i make an FC build i want it to be able to duel other things...like demons with ice powers or cold cors, which i always duel too. I laugh when people ask for "Melee only" duels. A duel is a duel, and my builds are made to 1v1 anything, as well as dominate in 1v1 FC. I will never in my life make a FC ONLY build, because frankly not taking any ranged or a travel seems idiotic to me. If i lose to some FC only person, i just switch to my blaster or cor and ask them to duel, they usually refuse, which is pathetic, or accept and lose.
Also i might as well use numbers as well...
1. Regen, it's true you lose some regen when under Travel suppression, which is perma in FC, but that only takes away your BASE regeneration. good ole 0.42%, or 100% on mids. That doesn't hit you that hard, i believe it will take about 6 hp/sec off before DR. Not a huge change, it would be a huge change if you say...had a SS/Invul brute who hit around 3150 hp like mine once did, i believe i lost something like 11 hp/sec, which really crippled me. But /regen is based off of regeneration bonuses more so than hp, where as invuls and WPs who focus more on HP get crippled by it more. Either way you're going to have more regen than the regen you're fighting. TS isn't a problem and i barely notice the difference on my regen when i've tried to arena without it...only on my WP tank with capped (old cap) hp.
2. Yes the damage is getting resisted, but the fact is that those dmg %s need to be high, and even being resisted they still dominate. Regens don't have any resistence compared to other secondaries like WP/Invul/Fire etc. So if you're fighting them, which is who you were losing to, it won't matter at all. In fact the only time i've seen the damage procs do considerable amounts of damage was when my opponent was in unstoppable. Swipe would do around 30 damage per, and only 20 if damage % was half slotted. 1 mako proc adding 72 dmg 20% of the time would = 14.4 extra damage. Which is higher than the 10 damage added by slotting max dmg %. But that's in one situation, against something with around 84% resistence to S/L. Procs are nice and fun, but i've tried 3 procs vs 2 procs, and even 4 procs. I came to the conclusion that 4 IOs and 2 procs was the best choice. Unless you want 2 Acc/Dmg HOs, 1 Dmg IO and 3 procs....but when i tried that my chain wasn't complete and i missed the hp/dmg bonuses from mako. So i have a lot of experience with the damage and how to slot attacks.
Unfortunately you are getting FC advice from people who never do it. So yes, i beg them to try to fight my claws spamming quick strike/boxing. Your DPS will be horrible.
Oh well somebody didn't read the numbers i put up....He suggested using Smashing blow even though it's bad DPS, and i suppose he missed the incredible DPS of Concentrated strike....instead of using it every 1m or so with power siphon, spam it to hell whenever it's up. I'll assume the OP is smart enough to check the numbers on this.
I didn't say ignore recharge, that would be crazy. But like i said the most survivable regens i've fought had a lot more hp and regen than i did. I never go below 50% rech on my regen builds. As we all know, DR kicks in around 120% or so and recharge becomes less and less effective. I get the basic/necessary recharge then focus on hp/regen.
You use boxing and shadow punch Merc? Nice, you only missed [Smite] your best attack for DPS chains. Not to mention siphon life is worse than midnight grasp too. Midnight grasp is the exact same DPS as boxing, except it has DoT to stop aid self, is a big hitter to throw your opponent off a bit (timing for heals etc.) and has -tohit which can be very useful against new scrappers without FA/Targeting drone.
But of course i'm not here to help you make your dueling toon better, i'm just helping the OP.
I'm not impressed by the win %, my claws/regen, being only 2 billion and without pvp IOs, beat a bunch of 20 billion duelers who came to virtue for more duels. In fact i was undefeated, until a 15 billion DM/Regen, one i had already beat, got some advice from one of my good friends on how to fix his toon up better. He respec'd according to the advice...then beat me, and he's still the only one i've lost to.
I dueled CraZnictus or whomever from freedom, worth a lot, it was extremely close but the duel was interrupted. I don't know which way it would go, probably depended on crits and procs at that point, but, well i thought i would match this little record up there or whatever you call it.
In any case, you totally missed the point of fast animating, fast recharge attacks: landing more procs more often than slower, harder hitting attacks. Hence me landing two shadow punches and one boxing (in 2.73 sec and six procs) in the time it takes to fire off one concentrated strike (in 2.83 sec with two procs.) Yeah, I am all about the procs so at least you see where I am coming from.
I do agree with smashing blow being bad, but if Kib wanted to take advantage of power siphon and still take advantage of fast animating attacks with procs he would need a filler (since the recharge on QS and BB is too high to alternate just between those two attacks like QS and boxing.) SB is a slower animating attack at 1.5 sec so would not be ideal but yeah if he wanted to take advantage of PS it's there as a filler.
While I don't think building for regen is as important as +HP and +recharge, it is still important on regens and maybe I should have stressed that point above in my response.
My win/loss count was not meant to impress only to show that using two fast animating/fast recharge attacks with procs has been very successful, and to show I do have some experience in the melee VS melee fightclub world. Not to mention, needing only two attacks is very economical since one only needs to slot two attacks versus three or four, leaving power choices and slots to spend elsewhere.
Smite is a great attack, no doubt about it and when I had it in my build (shadow punch, smite, boxing) it worked great but I have been able to skip it for another power choice that benefits the build in a way having an uneeded attack doesn't.
Siphon Life, while not as damaging as midnight grasp is a much better power since it takes away an opponents health and replenishes the user's. Please note, it's not part of a regular attack chain but as a heal and as a heavy hitter when needed.
Lastly, I'd like to address this:
"Unfortunately you are getting FC advice from people who never do it. So yes, i beg them to try to fight my claws spamming quick strike/boxing. Your DPS will be horrible."
While I don't have quick strike and boxing, shadow punch and boxing serve the same purpose and I would be happy to fight your claws regen in a melee on melee fightclub match. My test build is the same as my live build.
No ego, just to show you the philosophy behind two spammable attacks has been proven and I'd be happy to prove it again
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Quote:Kib, Sentry was talking about melee on melee fightclub but in his build he is talking about colds and debuffs? Hmmm, I think he got sidetracked. My understanding is you were looking for a KM/Regen build to fight other melee in a fightclub (toe to toe) situation. Based on that, here are a couple of things to keep in mind that Sentry either forgot to mention or does not understand:Originally Posted by Kibowi
Very Nice Sentry! Thank's alot bro. Your the only person that actually didn't put their 2 cents in about fightclubbin or duelin, and what I mean by that is saying something dumb or stupid like half the other people like to do. You actually responded positively and helped me out with exactly what I need. I love the build. Can't wait to respec. Imma hit you up for other builds in the sentry... LOL
-Kib
1. Regen is all well and good in downtime (not in combat) but during combat your regen goes bye-bye during travel suppresion (which just about 100% of the time in fightclub.) Don't ask me why but the devs have failed to fix this.
2. All that damage in his attacks is getting resisted. Purple, PVP, and a number of other procs (like Mako's, check Mids) are UNresisted damage which far and away make them more valuable to have in your attacks than that extra 10-15% he's going to get slotted for damage.
For fightclub, your best damage is going to be fast animating, low recharge attacks (ala quick strike, and boxing, yes...boxing.) Slot one with five purples (Acc/Dam/Rech, Acc/rech, Dam/End, Dam/Rech, Proc) and a Glad Strike proc. The other slots three glad strikes (Quad, Acc/Dam, Proc) and three mako's (Quad, Dam/End or Dam/Rech, Proc.) Slotted with enough recharge you can spam just those two attacks and win.
Now, KM being what it is and getting a bonus for using only KM attacks + Power Siphon... Quick strike, body blow, and smashing blow can be used in place of quick strike and boxing (leave boxing unslotted in this case) and cycle between those three attacks. Personally, I still like boxing and quick strike. You can skip the ranged attack for fightclub (people generally don't move for fightclub) and get concentrated strike for those heavy hits once you've gone through your attack chain while power siphon is on.
Sentry's advice to ignore recharge on a regen is not good advice, especially since your regen is going to get killed every time travel suppresion kicks in (check it out in real numbers in game.) You need those heals and having to wait an extra five seconds makes all the difference in fightclub. In zone, it's not as important because you can run away.
I'll toss a fightclub build together later when I get home.
I use a DM/SR scrap for fightclub (in the past I have also used ma/regen, dm/regen, inv/ss, elec/ss, and ice/energy) and use shadow punch and boxing back to back with the occasional siphon life for heavy hits/small heals. In hundreds of fightclub duels on the DM/SR in the past 4 months or so I've lost maybe 5 or 6 times tops.
You'll catch alot of flack for fightclubbing. Just ignore it, it's just another form of PVP. It does require a big investment for a fairly small portion of the PVP playerbase, so you may want to reconsider making something strictly for fightclub. I have lots of cash to burn so for me it didn't interfere with my blasters, debuffers, healers, and tauntbots I use for regular zone and arena play. -
Quote:Probably is yeahOriginally Posted by Kibowi
Aww, I hope this isn't going to be one of those posts where there's 105 views but nobody posts anything ;-(
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Quote:I hope the 80 people who signed up actually show up for the matches. Because, usually what happens is you get a good initial showing and then when people start to lose they also lose interest. GL with it though.Originally Posted by XxBudweiser8xX
Zone pvp = Epic fail
You want good, fun, organized pvp? Come over to champion. The current League going is at 80+ people entered on rosters.
YES 80 PVP'ER's
Or I guess you could go to freedumb and has epic times in da zone pvp's