Memphis_Bill

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For those waiting in line please turn off powers, and do your part to not slow things down.

Ex

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... what powers, there's a suppression field. Has been.

Of course, given the line is apparently to identify those who are willing to follow rules and be penalized by them...

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I'm a tolerant guy. I understand the nature of waiting in line to get into an event. However, I have to say that I'm not entirely satisfied by the manner the wedding event has been handled.

1) If you wanted us to line up in lines to enter the event then put in controls to direct the people. Rope lines, funnels, any sort of crowd control would be nice. I laughed like most when Castle KO'd people close to the Usher in Atlas. I even got him to laugh when I said it was like "Look! It's the WHO!" [that's an old person joke for all the folks under 30 based on a crowd stampede at a WHO concern years ago ]. You need better crowd control for events like the wedding.

2) The equity of the access to the event was lacking. Making it "whoever can click on the Usher through the effect of the Force Bubble" lacked balance. Why did this happnen? Not thinking through the methodology of accessing the event is why. Plan for orderly entry next time. The shotgun approach is a poor substitute for proper planning.

- B.

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QFT.

I'm standing, right now, on the first stair - where I've been since we were told to "Form a line," what, over an hour ago.

Haven't moved.

How is this being handled?

- Watch for Castle to start a force bubble, shoving everyone (everyone the client can draw, at least) back.

- Pray you see it in local when he yells "Go!"

- Make mad rush to the usher, hope you can click on him before it fills.

So, the folks doign what we're *asked* are getting penalized. The people being a mob are getting in.

Very, VERY poorly planned and handled.

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lol



um....what did i do now?

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Apparently you're funky.

Hit the showers.

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7) an apology for not being as awesome and cool as I am. I know it's technically not your fault, so I'll also require an apology from your parents too.

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I am so very sorry for not attaining the awesomeness that you have attained. I also apologize for my lack of coolness, as I know it doesn't approach yours.

My parents are not very computer savvy, so they are snail mailing their apologies to you. Expect it in 3 to 5 days.

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Dear Positron,

Please note that I have ammended said demands for an apology to also include sufficient funds to purchase a new keyboard, as mine is now covered with coke. (The drinking kind.)

I shall expect this posthaste, along with some of your mothers delicious gingersnap cookies and freshly baked dutch apple pie.

Sincerely,
Liquid Horatio X

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My dear, esteemed Mr. Liquid Horatio X,

Due to the unfortunate "soda on my keyboard" incident which immediately followed the reading of your above-quoted post, I will require you to forfeit any Positron-funded keyboard to myself. Surely such an awesome and cool individual such as yourself can see that this is only fair and equitable given the precedent that you have already established.

I await your contact to facilitate the transfer of ownership of said keyboard with baited breath.


Sincerely,


Father Hallowed Sr.

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Dear Reverend Father Hallowed Sr., esquire,

I am writing to notify you of a further unfortunate incident. Upon reading your post, your use of the phrase "baited breath" instead of the correct "bated breath" caused an acute attack of improper grammar rage, causing me to bang my fist on my desk, breaking my keyboard.

Given your impassioned and well reasoned plea to LiquidX, I am sure you understand that the only right thing for you to do is to pass along to me any keyboard passed to you by LiquidX passed to him by Positron. I will absorb the cost of having the embedded shards of plastic removed from my hand as a sign of good faith.

Anxiously awaiting your reply,

Dr. Francis Oglethorpe Gotterdamurung, DDS

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Attention Dr. Francis Oglethorpe Gotterdamurung, DDS:

Concurrent to your rather unfortunate incident which was predicated upon the esteemed Mr. Liquid Horatio X's misfortune, I myself was possessed by a fit of unseemly laughter that I simultaneously cracked my tooth, sprained my neck, and misaligned my lumbar vertebrae.

Therefore I am hereby giving notice that I am appending the damages incurred to my keyboard to the damages that you seek ultimately from Positron, the original progenitor of this entire unfortunate chain of events.

As a fellow man of education (I myself being a scholar of modern English and ancient Latin) I know that you will instantly see the merit of this action and support it as the sole course to return to the salubrious harmony that all of we victims enjoyed just yesterday.

Sincerely,
Doctor Rolin Silas ChromeEvil Phlogiston (esq.)

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Dear Gentlemen, Madames, and assorted beings of Indeterminate gender,

While I (being of the sheer awesomeness and registering over 50 Mega-Fonzi's on the Coolometer) certainly understaned your impassioned pleas, I regret to inform you that as I pay 15 bucks a month for my subscription to this game, am automatically better then you, and thus much more deserving of said money for said keyboard to be paid by said Positron on said date.

However, I hope you will be happy to hear that this series of unfortunate events will now be chronicled by one "Lemony Snicket", who has promised to pay all royalties to you in person.

Sincerely,
Liquid Horatio X

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So... LiquidX is dating Positron?

Yeah, I can see myself using *this* version of Excess more than the regular. It looks nice. Heck, I can see using several of the pieces.

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I am very disappointed that NCSoft has decided to devote time to SELL an add-on like this when in past Valentines events costume pieces we're EARNED in missions.
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Actualy, this is a pack for the wedding "event." The valentines day (two week long) event is not related to it, and - given that my characters were able to access DJ Zero over the winter event and get the valentines missions - I'm pretty sure you'll still be able to earn the toga, hearts bits, laurel and sandals... the *valentines* bits... without paying a dime beyond your normal subscription.

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How many costume options... versus how many that are already in the game? And several of the pieces you can't even say are that *different* from what's in the game - there's already a tuxedo jacket (male,) all the skirts are essentially getting another pattern, there's... a new pair of shoes, two more-detailed versions of *existing* patterns (Excess and Angelic,) one more deviated version of another option (Hearts - v-day event piece) - ... so, really strictly, the veil, chest piece (female,) gloves (female) and two jackets, plus some emotes.

Doesn't sound like it's really making anyone's costume concept impossible, or even all that difficult.

Seriously, the way some people are reacting, you'd think they'd started charging *real* money for costume changes at Icon, and a fee for each time you use the tram. Or *forcing* them to buy it.

Robbery. Ha.

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Bill, they really are spectacularly better though. I, too, was apprehensive about $9.99 for just some costume parts and the emotes, but then I really got to see the Bridal stuff (which can just be used for fancy lace items) and then the Angel Plus, Excess Plus and Hearts Plus and I was sold. Definitely worth it, but it will probably sell better at $5.99.

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Oh, I know they are (I think I had that email all of two minutes before buying it,) but most of them *are* variants of existing patterns, after all... so arguing that it would destroy someone's concept to have to pay for them just doesn't hold water with me.

Heck, I think if I logged on with my old machine (well, if I put its old video card back in,) I probably wouldn't see a heck of a lot of difference. I know I spent a good bit at the tailor when I first upgraded it because things that looked... eh, let's say "subtle" and interesting suddenly looked awful in more detail! (Like the spotted pattern... it was really washed out. New card = "Hey, those look like sharp dots now... ick!")

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Here's a wild, radical thought for you.

*If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.*

Your powers will work the same, and somehow I don't think your lack of a /throwrosepetals or /throwrice emote is going to make that AV fight any harder.

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Here's a wilder more radical idea.

No.

Because this opens the door to a lot of other paid content, and before you know it we're being nickel and dimed to death on future costume pieces because people shrugged and let this pass.

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Bit of a leap there.

And you snipped the post I replied *to,* with the "I can't believe you've sunk this low, blah blah blah whine whine whine" nonsense.

They're not forcing you to buy it. You're not suddenly getting charged $25 this month. If it doesn't sell... hmm... they might not do it again!

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Plus this is a SUPERHERO game, arguably costumes are as an important aspect of the genre as the powers themselves. At least they are to some of us, granting those with the extra $10 to throw away sole access to something that's part of an integral aspect of the game is robbery. Especially at the price.

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How many costume options... versus how many that are already in the game? And several of the pieces you can't even say are that *different* from what's in the game - there's already a tuxedo jacket (male,) all the skirts are essentially getting another pattern, there's... a new pair of shoes, two more-detailed versions of *existing* patterns (Excess and Angelic,) one more deviated version of another option (Hearts - v-day event piece) - ... so, really strictly, the veil, chest piece (female,) gloves (female) and two jackets, plus some emotes.

Doesn't sound like it's really making anyone's costume concept impossible, or even all that difficult.

Seriously, the way some people are reacting, you'd think they'd started charging *real* money for costume changes at Icon, and a fee for each time you use the tram. Or *forcing* them to buy it.

Robbery. Ha.

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Lighthouse wanted feedback, he's getting it.

This is a terrible idea, and the fans need to send a clear message that they aren't going for it.

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Feedback? Fine. But your last sentence makes it sound like there's only a single response to this - which, quite obviously, there isn't.

The responses are falling into three categories:

"Cool! I dont' mind paying for specialty, decorative content" - which is what these costumes and four emotes are,

"Eh, I'd pay for it, but that price is a bit steep for that little bit," which tells them either (a) lower the price or (b) add mroe stuff, and

"Not interested."

Frankly, I *am* interested. If they can afford to look into more specialty bits they might not otherwise do, without it detracting from the general content - including costume bits for everyone - hey, go for it.

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Charging real world money for costumes and emotes? Wow. You guys have really sunk to a new low. I mean for the love of Christ offer SOMETHING tangible. More CHARACTER SLOTS. Offer a new AT, powersets. ANYTHING. But your CHARGING for costumes and emotes? Are you trying to piss off your customers?

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Here's a wild, radical thought for you.

*If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.*

Your powers will work the same, and somehow I don't think your lack of a /throwrosepetals or /throwrice emote is going to make that AV fight any harder.

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How come the females always get the 'slutty' looking suits, no love for the males? Plus, this package was just made for the female toons and I don't play female so I guess you can count me out of this purchase. Yet again the male toons usually always get screwed when it comes to all the costumes.

Sorry just felt like ranting. Don't hate me!!

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... Honestly? Look at any formal gathering.

Guys - Suits and tuxes. Other than color, how much variety do you really see?

Ladies - Dresses and outfits in a variety of colors and styles.

Is it really surprising that a pack of costume options would be any different? Especially with a suit jacket, military jacket, and tux already in game for the guys?

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7) an apology for not being as awesome and cool as I am. I know it's technically not your fault, so I'll also require an apology from your parents too.

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I am so very sorry for not attaining the awesomeness that you have attained. I also apologize for my lack of coolness, as I know it doesn't approach yours.

My parents are not very computer savvy, so they are snail mailing their apologies to you. Expect it in 3 to 5 days.

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... gods, I love our devs.

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How long after you buy it can you access the pack in-game?

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Took just a couple of minutes for me.

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I think it depends on the artist... if I had the disposable cash, and Adam Hughes was going to draw LJ, heck, I'd wait a year! I agree with you it's not a great place to be, and in my own defense, I tell people that it will be a short wait, but it will be worth their while... however every artist has their own terms hopefully based on what's best for both parties.

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See, that's the thing. I've got another piece waiting with Graver. I know he'll be a while... but he keeps his queue (and DA site) updated, so I can tell with some surity where I am.

The other person... I have no idea.

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Wow, $9.99 for a few costume parts? That's a bit steep. $4.99 I might spring for. I love the game and complain about very little, but considering there are not any temp powers or more than basically two costume options it's a bit pricy, IMHO.

And just to beat the trolls to the punch, yeah I know. I don't have to buy it. And at this price I probably won't. But I will give my opinion just the same, thank you.

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Actually, if people do not express there opinion about how displeased they are with this "Wedding Pack" idea, how will NCSoft know not to do it again.

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Of course, there's the *opposite* opinion, too.

If paying for it lets them do some more limited-use or limited-appeal items on top of ALL THE FREE STUFF we get already, hey, fine.

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If it's the new NCNC Policy to sell individual emotes, I'd rather have Jack and his cracked out idea about gameplay and balance back any day.

Should have known that this was coming once the makers of the craptastic lootfests lineage and lineage two took over.

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Nothing like jumping to conclusions, huh. And you DO know NCSoft was involved from very, very early in the game, right? Like, oh, pre-alpha?

They are not "selling individual emotes." They're selling a very specialized set of costume pieces and emotes. Or did you plan to propose and throw rose petals at every GM you come across?

Well, I and others have agitated in the past for a serious upgrade to the site and information available on it.

Now that they're NC2, and getting more people, we can only hope.

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Just wondering if this indicates a change in business model from NCSoft. After all, its a low cost pay upgrade with a small amount of content. Im wondering if this is a sign of things to come?

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Honestly, for some "specialty" items like this? I can't argue.

Yes, I bought it...

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I don't mind paying for the occasional theme pack, but it does seem a little sparse compared to the Costume/Pocket D teleporter/jumppack one.

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Yes, but there's nice detail on those pieces. Honestly, I prefer this version of "Excess" to the other...

And folks, look at the female coat...

Fortunata, anyone? Maybe not *exactly* a buttcape, but...

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Quick question since I can't find any info about it anywhere. I just bought and applied the Wedding Pack code to my account, was not logged in, and the items are not on my characters yet. I'm going to take a guess that it won't be "active" till the V-tines event ?

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It's active now. Give it about 5 minutes.

Pity there's not more for male, but they already have top hats, bow ties and the like...

Wait, no feedback of the negative variety? We cant' have that, it's the forums!

Um...


*looks over guide..*

Um...

You spelled "Sentence" wrong, noob! ZOMG!

... hey, I had to find something.

If you do a 2.0 (though maybe a 1.1 or 1.2 would be all it needed,) I'd possibly link to guides for the specific corruptor types "For more detail." Other than that, it's a nice overview.

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For any WIP projects, Art or Otherwise, if there is little/no direct oversight between you and the producer, its best to go by a 1/3rd, 2/3rds rule.

1/3rd up front (its the "Carrot") and the 2/3rds once the project is completed (The "stick"). That way, they get money (So they can't say "Well I'm not working for something I'm not paid for!") and you don't fork out 100% off the purchase price, in case they renege on the deal and try and shirk the responsibility.

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While this rule protects the collector very well, it does nothing to protect the artist from a "wild card" client, who would demand several changes, extend the period of work, and flat out refuse to pay the remaining sum if they should so choose.

1/2 down and 1/2 after is fair.

But I personally believe that before the buyer leaps into the pool, they first do their homework. Check with previous clients, check that they got what they asked for, check the artist's demeanor, and if that is something they can "put up" with...

I regret that one bad apple will always keep the lines of communication harshly paranoid. And while I myself have had some less than perfect clients, it could all have been avoided with some preparation on both parts. That is to say I know what I am and am not capable of, and what I hope my clients understand and if I'm lucky they won't be too angry with me.

Okay, note to self, don't watch PBS and post at the same time.

LJ

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Well, mine's at... nine months now. Almost four months to the day since the last word I'd heard. And previous projects (not with me) seemed to be promising....

In contrast, I just got a quick note from Daggerpoint saying he'd be pushing that commission to the end of the month - my response being all of "OK, that's fine, thanks for letting me know."

It's going to be interesting to see if I can hold my tongue if/when my *severely* late commission contacts me. I got irked enough that I've commissioned someone else (totally different style, too...) to do those characters (plus one other, making it a trio) even though I wanted the initial piece... well, long ago, but I was still hoping for "Before they hit 50." Which they did last night.

I'll gladly send some stuff in. Editing or producing... I have no clue.

Two weeks? Is that all?

... continued, yes.

As for what *can* be programmed and addressed with technology and NCSoft's resources...

The first thing to do is pick something and concentrate on it, both from the programming and the community side.

For me, this screams "Start where we started already. Start with the Arena."

Gut the interface. Rework it to be far more user friendly and intuitive.

Gut the help system and "tutorial." Start from the ground up so people understand what they're doing.

With the finer control allowed in the arena, more types of games and maps can be made. Capture the Flag, while we have (in a sense) this going in SC and RV, makes far more sense in Arena. To borrow another type from Myth and the Bungie that Was, "Kill the Guy with the Ball" would work too. King of the Hill, and many other types that have been suggested, should without a doubt debut in the arena.

Along with those... new maps. And new selection types for the maps. I am, without reservation, against picking any specific map - but what I'd love to see is picking a map *type.* Going against a flyer, you may think you have an advantage picking "Office" as a map type... until you see it's a two or three story building with catwalks and other room to maneuver. The flyer may think they have an advantage picking "Outdoor/Park," until they find themselves stuck in the Perez maze... Limited randomness can throw a fun (or, yes, anoying ) wrench into the works and keep people on their toes.

NCSoft-created - or at least publicised - events, quarterly, would help. Heck, find a group - similar to the Taxibots - who will take it on themselves to host a monthly training schedule, a lower-pressure "Welcome to PVP," is a good idea. Some SGs do similar things already (see also level 4 PVP, as well,) but many keep it within their ranks. I don't think NCSoft should be the ones doing the training - I don't think t'd be good use of resources - but showing the support in a visible way would be good.

Now, I mentioned keeping others who wouldn't PVP normally around...

The arena can be a great resource. Open it up for PVE as well. Want to try out a build? Arena-spec a temporary (non-INF, and certainly non-permanent!) build before you respec. We have Ouroboros to fight older enemies... but how about a "training" (or, as i recall, referred to as "Danger") room if you're having trouble against certain types? Heck, use the arena interface to show demorecords... if at all possible.

Make the terminals more accessible while making them more user friendly - put them in the SG bases. Put them in Atlas, Galaxy, Mercy, Cap... Put them in the PVP zones - without a bounty/point cost for using them.

And make sure the arena's so stable that nobody believes, in six months, that it *ever* crashed.

Once you have people using this for PVE... they may see some of the PVP events. Or PVP training. And they'll be familiar with the interface, and what to expect (somewhat) going in. And it may be enough to kindle the interest of a few fence sitters... who may bring a few more. The training groups and those int he community helping out here should, in general, be the ones giving a better impression of PVPers as well... of that, honestly, I have no doubt.

After that?

.... well, then we look at the zones. Yes, geometry holes and exploits should be fixed on the way. But use the Arena system to make people comfortable, first.

Heh.

All I can say is this *will* be a collection of random thoughts, most likely. Bear with me. (Large one. Like a Grizzly.)

First, as I think we can all agree, no matter *what* is proposed as a "fix" is going to come from one specific viewpoint. Heck, what's seen as any specific "problem," AT bugs not withstanding, are going to be seen as a problem, or not, depending on who's reading it.

For instance...

"PVP has no point, no reward."

Well, street basketball doesn't, either. Once the game is over, what's changed other than the need to throw soem clothes in the laundry? Art doesn't. I don't mean commercial advertisements, or illustration for presentation, but someone just painting, oh, a landscape... for anything but their own pleasure. Not everyone needs a carrot dangling in front of them, a "Do X for Y reward." Sometimes the activity IS its own reward, after all, and for many, that - not some power, not points toward an IO, not a ladder ranking or rep or whatnot - is all that's required.

The activity itself is reward.

Does this mean rewards should be removed? Not in the slightest. I'm not honestly sure *reworking* them needs to be done, either - again barring, as mentioned before, villain accolades. That's the one, glaring example of "needing" to be in a PVP zone for PVE. (Yes, I know, accolades aren't needed to finish the game, but villainside is the only side in which someone must be exposed to an environment they may strongly dislike - PVP - that heroside does not.)

Yet, the activity itself has its own expectations. One of the most often broadcast complaints is that something "wasn't fair." Well, the most blunt reply is that life isn't fair... the most honest one is that everyone's definition of fair is different.

For instance, going with some of my own experiences:

Kin/Dark defender vs Brute. My defender wasn't doing a heck of a lot of damage, mostly using the brute for a speed boost. And there's no way in heck I was going to come down into melee range (I don't recall if he had SJ or SS, regardless I could stay out of range.) What wasn't "fair" there? Well, that I was... out of range. Some people, for some reason that absolutely escapes me, expect PVP to be a game of Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots. Nobody moves, you just stand toe to toe and beat on each other.

Why would any non-Brute, non-Tank, non-Scrapper bother coming in then? "Fair" was, to the Brute, coming down and standing still - the exact thing that would kill my Defender. "Fair" to me was, and I told him this, "Doing everything in your power to kill me while trying to stay alive." Now, yes, this excludes things like TPing into geometry - things defined as "Not allowed" by the developers. Yet anything else goes.

Ice/Dark (I think...) Corruptor vs Blaster of some sort. Huge level difference, even in BB (18 vs 50.) No stamina, half the insp slots - yet the 50 (not me) complained I was using inspirations (blues, of course.) "Um... duh." I have yet to *understand* that definition of fair, other than, again, "Quit lessening my overwhelming advantage." Yeah, I got killed. *shrug* It's PVP. I laughed.

EA brute vs two (!!) mind 'trollers, absolutely PVP specced, high acc and recharge... having three lines of holds plus TK stacked on me made my brute completely, totally helpless. Is this "fair?" No, no complaints from me - they built for it and won fairLY, yes, but it's a situation that I think most on the receiving end would call "not fun."

How do you balance that? How do you design around those sorts of situations?

For an open PVP zone... you can't. That's really all there is to it. In this game, short of restricting PVP to like powersets... you're not going to have 1v1 balance. I can accept this. Many regular PVPers can (and learn to work around it - surprise can work wonders.) Yet many *casual* players can't, and... I have to be honest... won't. For whatever reason, they're stuck in the "I am powerful, you are not" PVE mindset, where one hero = 3 (or more) minions. When faced with another player who ignores taunt, TPs them out of their caltrop patch, etc.... "it's not fair."

Ahh... bt arena! Well, no.... Even the (great fun, everyone should try it) level 4 PVP games that go on at times are, honestly, *sorely* imbalanced. No travel powers, no pool powers, no Stalkers or Khelds... and there's still strong performance differences in sets. Debuffing already lacking accuracy is painful. Holds can be *devestating,* and much faster than in zone.

The first thing that has to be accepted by the player community - not just accepted, but understood is that PVP is not fair, and it is not balanced. It cannot be in this game. It never WILL be, and yes, this comes from someone who plays decidedly... non FOTM characters.

No PVP switch is going to change that. No PVP/PVE build switch is going to change that - though the idea itself does have appeal. I'll admit to that - and to having a foot in the "Greater power demands sacrifice in your build" camp... if you want to PVE, you're losing some PVP effectiveness. PVP can force you into choices you wouldn't make for PVE... and that, to me, is not a problem.

This segues into... how can I phrase it... community. Zone friendliness. The reputation of PVPers.

You cannot code around this. Unfortunately, the few real jerks give everything a bad name.

You can also not code something that will be universally appealing. Some people want nothing to do with PVP. *shrug* Assuming anything is going to draw massive amounts of people so that the heavens open up and smile upon CO* PVP is... misleading. Anything new will draw some people, yes... the badgers (who will cuss out the PVPers for daring to attack them as they get badges,) the people who have to go there to see the liason and then, for whate'er reason, believe they are "forced" inside... and then, three months later, the numbers are down, and the PVPers are even more spread out, looking for a fight, or ignoring the new zone.

... so what can be done, not just to *draw* people, but the bigger challenge... to retain them afterward?

Let me digress here for a moment. It's a related point, trust me.

Way back, before the Dark Times, before.. the Forum Purge (well, one of them,) I made a post. Now, there's nothing new in this, I've made over NINE THOUUUSAANND... er... sorry... I've made many posts. Yet this, I made after my first experience in PVP. COV was new. There was no rez timer, the liasons were inside the PVP zones, there was no roof over the villain rez rings, things were.. much different.

My Brute (coincidentally, the one that became my first 50) had just turned 15, and was sent into the zone. Oh, the slaughter - if there were blood in this game, BB would truly have lived up to its name. The heroes fought, the villains fought, back and forth for hours. We had *fun.*

Then, one group came in. This was my first (but most assuredly not *last*) experience of the Hero Huddle. The lowest was in their high 30s, the highest, several of them, 50. Yes, I know, "We're all exemped or SKd," but TOs and DOs don't give much advantage at level 15. This group drove villains out. This group *refused to let me leave.* Remember, no timer. No rez ring hospital. Far fewer drones (they could phase and stand at the rings.) Assist Targeting was still in. Even when being *told* I wanted to leave... TP, kill, rez, TP, kill.

That led to my post, and my decision - at the time - to never set foot in a PVP zone again. Do my "see contact" mission and leave. (I don't believe mission dropping was in at that time.) After telling the PVP community (at the time) that this would drive people away for good, I left after saying my piece.

Yet in the time after, I realized something. I had been having *fun.* Win or lose, I was laughing, "GF" and "LOL"ing at hero and villain, and having a blast. For me, that memory brought me back. And I decided, as I played in there more, to do what I cold to offset the jerks and idiots - thus, my Stalkers actually helping controllers/defenders get shivans (and giving them tips, even if some were a teasing "oh, and look out for Stalkers.") And writing things like the PVEers guide to PVP (both versions.)

Many people would, and do, stop right where I nearly did - "I'm not putting up with these people," any good experience ruined. I hear it from my friends and SG mates, too, even when I know, and try to tell, them it's not like that most of the time. But experiences like that - or a lower tolerance for "trash talking," even if it's just little, clean jibes back and forth ("Come out and plaaaay.... we have cake!" was fun a week ago,) all can be taken differently by different people.

The appeal of PVP, the zones and arena, isn't going to be just - or even primarily - in what technology can bring. Yes, the arena interface needs work. Yes, creating dueling rules in zone might work well. New arena maps and zone goals will give new things to try... but the real, retaining appeal of PVP has to come from something you cannot program. The PVPers themselves. And I'll tell you, first hand, many - most - are absolutely great, in my experience. But somehow, we've let the jerks overshadow that.

So...

How do we fix that?