McBoo
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Posts
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Quote:Actually the arc is relative to you holding down the jump button. When you release the jump button the line disappears and your momentum carries you for a short distance in whatever direction you were facing before you start to fall or press and hold the jump button to swing from another line. It's a very interactive form of travel, you don't just turn it on and go.Originally Posted by kusanagi
And if you pay close attention you'll note that you're not actually swinging /from/ anything. The arc is identical each time and unrelated to the proximity of anything you might be hooking that grapple on to.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
They wouldn't pick it if it was a clone of super jump with just that change. They would if it was its own travel power, with its own pros and cons, with that being one of the cons. The less control would make it more like Teleport in that respect, as it doesn't have very good control and is practically useless for short distances, but for macro movements (not micro), it should work rather well.
Let me clarify that when I said "similar to Super Jump in speed and operation" I meant that you would use the jump button to initiate each new swing. The level of maneuverability would be lower than Super Jump because you have momentum to contend with but I still see Swinging as a fairly responsive means of travel when it comes to maneuvering or changing direction. Perhaps you could make it susceptible to interruption so that if you are hit while in transit the power is toggled off.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Kheldarn
What does the PTS in the name, PTS Character Copy stand for?
Pickup Teams Suck?
Positron Teases Scrappers? (no dual pistols for you!)
Partially Twisted Sausage?
Putrid Tuna Sandwich?
Parkour Transit System? (next double backflip departing in 2 minutes!)
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Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Taxibot
Well, obviously it stands for the Paragon Taxi Service, whose members specialize in providing transportation services to the heroes of Paragon.
-Johnny
I remember them! They were a boon when The Hollows was first added to the game! I didn't realize they were still active! Bully for you!
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Quote:Sorry, no point of reference here.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
All I need to know about jumping over water I learned from Soul Reaver's Raziel. His ability to be swimming one moment and then leap 50 feet out of the water the next is explanation enough.
The look need only be a line that goes up into the sky and fades out after a certain distance. The rest is all about suspension of disbelief.Quote:And, guys, let's forget that there's explanation and then there's visualisation. Yes, you can EXPLAIN grappling hooks flying into the air and blowing up into balloons, but have you ANY concept how ridiculous such a thing would look? I've seen Swinging in Champions Online, and it looks cool only if you turn off your brain and never leave the city limits. There it looks good because you can't see where the grappling hook is going, but you CAN assume it's grappling to a building overhead. But swinging over the taiga of Canada where you're a fair distance above the tallest object? It looks like you're grappling clouds. And it looks just as patently ridiculous in the Spider Man game during the fight with the Green Goblin which takes place over a large open park with no buildings close by.
I would also like to see these kinds of thing added to CoX along with swinging but they would require a considerable investment of time and resources. Still I think that CO, DCUO and even the vaporware that is the Marvel MMO is going to cause Paragon Studios to do a lot of things that they didn't have the time, manpower or money for in the past. Vive la concurrence!Quote:Personally, I'd rather see a borrow from DC Universe Online, allowing Super Speeders to run up buildings and jumpers to cling to walls. That'd put an end to climbing buildings by the GOD DAMN WINDOW SILLS! That, however, is an engine addition which most likely isn't trivial to make.
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Quote:Actually if you are willing to accept surface tension as an explanation for why a human sized or larger object can be thrown at terminal velocity onto the surface of a large body of water and bounce back off I don't know why you would have a problem with anti-gravity "sky hooks". I'm sure there are folks in the game that already use anti-gravity boots, belts, suits, etc. as explanation for flight.Originally Posted by EmpYou
The main difference between SJ and swinging is SJ is already in the game. Does it work thematically for everyone? No, not really - but if you take Kitsunes analysis, it makes more sense then "Sky hooks".
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/24470Quote:Perhaps we could see a youtube video of how it looks from CO - if it looks as bad as it sounds I wouldn't want it anywhere near this game.
The video has been available on gaming sites and the main site for quite a while.
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Quote:It's all about being too close to the project. You start to see what you expect to see instead of what is there. It has happened in my line of work, software regression testing, which is why we always have our projects looked over by someone else before releasing them to the live environment.Originally Posted by Torroes_Prime
oh how I wish I could believe THAT was true my dear. Sadly, I've worked IT support, and Retail long enough to know that while someone would have to go well and truely totally out of their way to accomplish a mistake like that..... they can and probably did.
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Quote:IIRC, it was never stated that the engine would not support wall crawling only that it would require a herculean amount of work to implement. As far as a swinging travel power was concerned here was a brief discussion about coding it so that players would have to target buildings to swing from and that would also require a herculean amount of work to implement. So if you take away the need for target buildings/structures it shouldn't require as much work.Originally Posted by zachary_EU
I'm sorry but Dev team has made very clear that engine of COX cannot support any type of swinging or wall climbing powers at all.
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Quote:See this never worked for me, in my mind Super Jump should stop working when you hit the water because super strong legs or the ability to leap great distances doesn't change the surface of the water to a solid. This would mean that your downward momentum would actually drive you fairly deep under water. Instead you just splash in and splash out as if the middle of the ocean is no deeper than a kiddie pool so there is a level of suspension of disbelief required there.Originally Posted by EmpYou
As a player, I clairfy:
Superjump on water - you are so strong that you can hurl yourself anywhere
Small, collapsible parachute or air foil, magic rope, anti-gravity "sky hooks", etc. The RP of how powers work is up to the player. Also for the record, Spidey has been portrayed as swinging over the roof tops in the Forest Hills suburb of Queens, New York. A place not well known for it's skyscrapers, I'm just sayin'.Quote:Swinging over water - you...what? I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound really stupid.
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While lifetime subs are attractive from a player standpoint they get me thinking that the game developer is just looking to make their money quickly before they bail. That might be Cryptic's MMO MO. (Yes I said it!) They develop the game, hang onto it until they pay off the investors and make their money and then sell the rights to the game before moving on to their next big project.
It's not a bad business model. You get a fairly reliable revenue stream as folks jump on board due to the pre-release hype. The quick turn around on investment could make it easier to attract future investors. In addition it would certainly keep your development and art teams challenged. It would also allow a company like Cryptic to continue to improve their own software engine outside the limitations of an existing game system or hardware platform.
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Thanks for the input Aett!
Quote:Hmm, you may have a point here. I was looking to stick with same general format used by Super Speed and Leaping and may have hit a little too close to the mark. I'll work on that.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, how is this set really that different from the current Leaping pool? If the main power of the set functions the same way, and the 2nd and 4th power in the set are basically the same (the 4th tier power is actually weaker than Acrobatics), and the first tier power is basically about the same as Combat Jumping, what is in this set that is actually different?
I'm not bashing your idea here, I just want to know what you think would set this power pool apart.
Both good catches! My numbers were based off of Red Tomax which appears to default to Blaster numbers at level 50. Take that for what it is worth for now. I may have to try and revamp the set to be a bit more unique but I want to keep with the physicality of the set. I really want it to portray a rooftop avenger type of hero. Back to the drawing board I suppose!Quote:Also to keep in mind: AT modifiers. While the +5% Defense on Gymnastics might be on Tankers, Blasters are only going to get around 2.5%. If Blasters get the 5%, Tankers are going to get around 10%. This is due to AT modifiers on DefBuffs. Tankers get higher values than Blasters.
Also, for Spin Kick, is that 32 Damage for a Defender or a Scrapper? Things like that can change the set balance-wise. Better in these stages to keep things like damage in the minor, moderate, extreme-type range instead of putting down specific numbers.
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Yes the idea of swinging as a travel power has been discussed before. After 5+ years most of the suggestions on the forums have already been made and discussed. With the release of CO alot of things that were considered too much work or low priority will more than likely be reassessed in light of the looming competition. As such I present the following.
Swinging
Gymnastics - You have honed your body to the peak of perfection allowing you to race across the rooftops with amazing speed and agility. Almost no obstacle exists that you cannot overcome or bypass with relative ease. (Maybe even add in somersault animation in if the player hits jump again while in mid air, just for flavor)
+5 Def buff, improved jump (50% Hurdle) and improved speed (50%Swift)
Spin Kick - You put the momentum of your entire body behind this ferocious kick. The sheer power of this attack is such that it will bring even the strongest man to his knees.
32 smashing damage, KD, melee range
Swinging - When the rooftops run out there is only one thing to do, take to the air! With a grapnel and a stout cable you fly without wings and the canyons of concrete and glass are now your playground.
similar to Super Jump in speed and operation
Equilibrium - You have attained perfect balance allowing you to keep your feet no matter what is thrown your way.
+4 mag KB protection
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Quote:I'd hazard a guess that the number of characters in the pages of comic books that use a swingline as a means of transportation is equal to or greater than the number of characters that use teleportation.
No, not really. Energy Blast is very generic. Swinging is not.
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Quote:The thing I really didn't like about CO was that the first nemesis mission was hard beyond belief. The first room held the equivalent of 8 to 10 bosses and an equal or greater number of minions. Now maybe I wasn't as uber as I could have been since I didn't really get into the whole gear system and the only way I got to check out the nemesis system was by getting bumped to max level. Still, other folks that I chatted with in game on the subject admitted that they needed a team to complete their nemesis mission.Originally Posted by Dollhouse
I pre-ordered CO and bought the 6-month discounted subscription after participating in the open beta. I think that will be just about the right amount of time...it will likely sustain my interest for about six months. It's got some absolutely wonderful aspects, but I don't think I'll long tolerate the old-school MMO nonsense: camping spawns, dealing with killstealers/loot ninjas, relative lack if instanced missions, and so forth. I also don't care for the twitchy, console-style combat. I'll give it a fair shot, but I'll be surprised if I renew after the first seven months.
CoX, on the other hand? Well...I've been here over 5 years now...and I'm not going anywhere. GR merely cements that...
Call me crazy but if it is MY nemesis than shouldn't I be able to complete the mission on MY own? There was no way to pull a single mob from a group, they were constantly attached at the hip. I was only able to clear the first room with a blaster type character and that was only after an hour and a half of taunt, block,block, block, block, attack, heal, block,block, block, block, attack, heal, etc.... not fun at all really.
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Quote:I'd personally like to see them take some of the side missions that we get in the bank and mayhem missions and scatter them throughout the city zones so that the odd rescue or apprehension opens up a mission or story arc. The side missions are my favorite part of the bank missions!Originally Posted by TheJazMan
I am really hoping ROGUE has a number of features and here are some I am hoping for. Some have been confirmed, some vague and some I am hoping for:
1) New ATs. CoV had a bunch and so should ROGUE. Hopefully they are unique and make us say, "HEY! We haven't had anything like that!"
2) New mission maps. It seems CoV re-hashed all of the CoH mission maps (almost all). I pray these are all new maps. Using the old ones again will mean I am done here
3) New zones. A few NEW ones would be nice but we have so many already. Make the hazard zones co-op.
4) Side switching - about time.
5) End game stuff. I think it's coming?
6) New game innovations. Make some open missions, new ways to customize etc. AE was a great idea but poorly added and, so far, it has flopped. It is a farm creator - that's pretty much it.
7) Just keep the ideas new and fresh and not cosmetic. This game does way too much of the same old same old and recycles so many things. After 18 months it has worn me out - the repetition is brutal. I don't know how people lasted 5+ years.
Anyway, just the angle I hope they go with ROGUE.
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Quote:That format is currently used by Flight and Teleport. Leaping and Super Speed follow more of a individual physicality with the first and second tier powers being an attack or defense/utility power. IIRC, Hasten used to offer a small defense bonus. The third tier is your travel power and strangely enough the fourth tier was knockback related for both sets. Acrobatics prevented knockback and Whirlwind caused it. It also occurred to me that most of the comic book heroes associated with swinging did more than just merely hang on to a rope. They were all capable of some fairly impressive acrobatic feats that would make your average free runner green with envy. With that in mind I present the following:Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Yeah, you could rationalize the swing line over water in any number of ways... Maybe my character is a stellar entity and he's actually swinging from the moon... Maybe he's a mystical shaman, and he's swinging from a dimensional locus in the sky... And so on...
The AOE thing in the pool idea is neat, but not quite in keeping with other sets. The format has been...
1) Minor Travel power (eg Hover)
2) Attack or Defense power (eg Air Sup./Combat Jump)
3) Main Travel power (eg Flight)
4) Group Travel power (eg Group Flight)
Anyhoo...
Swinging
Gymnastics - You have honed your body to the peak of perfection allowing you to race across the rooftops with amazing speed and agility. Almost no obstacle exists that you cannot overcome or bypass with relative ease.
+5 Def buff, improved jump (50% Hurdle) and improved speed (50%Swift)
Spin Kick - You put the momentum of your entire body behind this ferocious kick. The sheer power of this attack is such that it will bring even the strongest man to his knees.
32 smashing damage, KD, melee range
Swinging - When the rooftops run out there is only one thing to do, take to the air! With a grapnel and a stout cable you fly without wings and the canyons of concrete and glass are now your playground.
similar to Super Jump in speed and operation
Equilibrium - You have attained perfect balance allowing you to keep your feet no matter what is thrown your way.
+4 mag KB protection
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Quote:Actually a co-worker of mine suggested some sort of small, collapsible airfoil or parachute at the end of the line that catches the air just long enough for you to complete a single arc. Again, role-playing the powers and how they work is up to the individual.Originally Posted by DragonEye
Considering the range of technology in comic books, its very easy to say you have some kind of gravity anchor/antigrav device that is fired from the launcher or something. My character has been RPing this with with superjump for years.
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Quote:Signed!Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Actually, I once suggested it be made almost exactly like SJ in reverse... And all my charcters that should be swinging haev SJ since it captures the "feel" better than other powers.
How about this...
Gadgets Pool
1) Climbing Line - a grappling hook that allows you to move up, in a more or less straight line.
2) Tangle Net - use your grappling line to entangle your enemy. - Immobilize with a chance to Hold.
3) Swing Line - Like SJ in reverse...
4) Clothesline - use your weighted line to sweep the feet of your enemies - cone or AoE knockdown (added by McBoo)
Just off the cuff...
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Quote:As long as Super Jump still works over large bodies of water I would say that a swinging travel power should.Originally Posted by konshu
There are several watery areas in zones. Should swinging work over open water?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Presumably he would swing from the same things he would in CO. The issue as I understand it is that the engine in CoH can't support it (which astonishes me, since this is a seminal power in comic books - I mean, how could they design a comic book game without it...).
IIRC, in the early discussions about this part of the problem was creating a system that would allow players to choose attach points for their swing-lines. CO has done away with that issue by having the line go up a given distance and then fading out at the end. No need to target a building or whatnot, just jump and then jump again while in midair. As long as you continue to press and release jump you can swing anywhere. Honestly, it feels alot like Super Jump in reverse with some extra animations thrown in. I'm sure that there are extra physics that have to be considered as well.
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Quote:I understand that it has been brought up before. I've been here since CoH beta and have taken part in some of those early discussions. My intent was not to start a flame war but simply to open up a new discussion on the subject. Since we are now in a new situation than we were during previous discussions what with a direct competitor offering the option.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Might I direct you to the suggestions section of our forums? You can start a flame war there.
EDIT to add: You're not the first to bring this up. It's been suggested time and time again. Most of the reason no one likes it is simple: What the hell are you swinging from? Satellites?!?!
As far as deciding where a swing-line is attached is concerned, that is up to the player not the game developer. Readers rarely see where Batman, Nightwing or Daredevil's swing-lines are attached in the pages of comic books yet they are willing to accept that form of travel. Also bear in mind that when playing CoX you are allowing suspension of disbelief to explain away many implausibilities. What's one more?
EDIT: Thanks for the vote of confidence by the way....
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I got a chance to try this out during the CO open beta and I have to say that as a travel power swinging is fantastic! Flight is flight, jumping is jumping and teleport or tunneling are far to pigeonholed to be widely usable but swinging is an easy fit for just about any type of hero. I'd love to see a swinging travel power added to CoX as maybe part of a gadget themed power pool. Please? I'll send cookies!
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Don't: Make yellow snow ice tankers....
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Quote:Careful there poker face....Originally Posted by Acemace
Everything but Granite I believe.
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Quote:This! Being that the OP is a third party account of a conversation that may or may not have happened it should all be taken with a grain of salt. I do want to touch on one thing though, politely telling someone that they have to leave the room (or server in this case) is an act of exclusion regardless of the circumstances. Don't believe me? Try having the people involved in the conversation from the OP switch places.Originally Posted by Tired Angel
a) Harrassment is bad - people shouldn't try and chase people out of servers for whatever reason, unofficial community or not
b) Bigitory is bad - attacking someone because of their sexual preferrence, race, gender, choice of chocolate bar should not be condoned at all
c) Unofficial communities are neither good or bad as long as they don't lead to a or b
d) We are hear to have fun, kick butt and hope I16 is as good as it seems to be
Go ahead, I'll wait..........
Tolerance is a two way street folks.
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