Maldini_NA

Personally I think the smaller the base the easier it will be to defend. The bigger the plot, the more spread out everyone is. Now you could say the more rooms the harder it will be to find the anchors, but over that same area, your personnel will be spread, unless you could possibly get most of the SG on for the raid.

The basic plot with well placed defenses will be much easier to defend, especially if you have reclaimators and an auto-doc/insp dispenser.

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I am speaking from a small "Casual" VG. And we are in SG mode100% of the time. And Group together on missions (even when we alll die 8 times in the mission) and We are making about 50K per week. For 1 mill that will take 20 weeks to get if the current rate stays constant and that doesn't take into account that we will have paid rent 10 times within those 20 weeks.

As I said before I don't mind playing towards a goal, but in gaming world 20 weeks is a very long time before you see any benefits. (Image if it take 20 weeks to get your first power, you be bored with the whole thing and quit)

I think a reasonal time for a "Casual" SG to get a starter base with one function other that looking pretty would be 1 month of playing. Specially since the members would likely be maxed out on salvage by that time.

I don't mind the light at the end of the tunnel as long as I can see the light.

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I hear you on that. I know several people who it took over a year to get their first 50 because of their casual gaming styles. Should we cry to the devs to make the XP gain and leveling easier because it takes some players 52 weeks to get their first 50 and unlock the epic archetypes? Some things take time depending on your lifestyle. It's the way of the world.

Also a raidable base is a far cry from a functional one. A functional one costs about half the price of a raidable one or less depending on what you want to do. If you want to just craft then it will cost you 750 K for a basic base with crafting. Deduct your membership prestige bonus from that and the price can drop all the way to 450 K.

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Your cocky I'm better than you attitude can just take a hike. These folks are describing THEIR EXPERIENCES and discussing them. Just b/c you (In City of Villains from what I gather) have found a way to make 100k in a couple of hours doesn't mean that every SG can accomplish that. "Shared Mission Complete Bonuses" well guess what.. those arn't IN CoH yet.

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Sorry to say you're wrong on both counts. First, I am in CoH and play it a lot more than CoV. All my comments come from a CoH perspective. The shared mission bonus is implemented because a friend and myself got the bonus by doing Bloody Bay door missions together. It was his mission and I got a bonus.

I don't think I'm better than anyone, so maybe you should stop misinterpreting what you read. I was offering a counterpoint to the discussion. I was trying to show that it isn't as bad as some people think. My "cockiness" was a direct response to the previous poster's condescending tone.

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Your automatically assuming that these folks who are only earning 50k per week arn't teaming together, generally the point of a supergroup IS TO TEAM TOGETHER. More than likely they always are.

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I agree that a SG should team together as often as possible, or otherwise why are you in an SG? An SG is there to have fun together, teaming and grouping and building your skills together. Personally, I always team with my SG mates and only team with others only under certain circumstances.

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Beyond that, I can state for a fact that the Villan Group I run on Protector averages 15-20 people online (having over 60 members) playing during afternoons and into the early morning and all of them working their missions together are making under 100k in a day not a couple of hours. Several of them are already in their high 30's, many are in their mid 20's. These arn't casual gamers, these are folks who know what they're doing and that's all their making. A smaller SG who can just barely form a team of 8 for more than an hour, isn't going to be able to make anything close to that. Its been stated over and over again by numerous people as fact that they arn't earning that.

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Quid pro quo. It's been states by numerous people that they are earning a lot more than 50 K a week and those are from people that are in smaller, casual SGs.

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Just because YOU don't think they're working hard enough or doing things right doesn't make you right. It makes you a jackass.

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No, it makes you a jackass for hopping in mid conversation and calling me a jackass. Why don't you go hop on your radio show, play some music, and let the adults talk, okay little boy?

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You obviously can't see the bigger picture and look beyond your own experiences b/c over and over you've stated that if they can't do what your doing their not working hard enough or doing it right. Thats the beauty of MMO's there's never one way to do anything.

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Exactly. There's always more than one way. That's why I offered an alternative viewpoint, to show that there are ways to earning a lot more prestige than people are quoting.

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I can say with some certainty that I've seen SG's earn 70k in one hour using 13 people, however those SG's have chosen to keep that method quiet and I respect their wishes.


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Well I don't think things like that should be kept quiet, unless it's an elitist SG. This was done Hami strats back in the day, but some very unselfish people worked hard to find a method for the masses. I think that if someone has a better way to do something, then they should share it, which is what I like to do.

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However all of these methods are not for the average gamer and definitly not for the average SG.

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A new method can be found and other methods can be refined to fit the playstyle of most players, just like Hami raids.

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Your 1.5 - 2 Million Raidable base is a myth...

A Raidable base requires:
6 Dimensional Anchors
Vault
Raid Teleporter
Mission Computer

A Raid Teleporter does NOT fit in the 2x2 room, which means in order to fit a 4x4 room for teleporting you have to sacrifice 2 rooms in your base.

On the basic Plot you can fit 9 2x2 rooms To fit a 4x4 room you have to give up 3 rooms. Now if you can manage to lay things out just right you can use the 150k long control room to use some of the lost space.. However using a 4x4 room leaves you with a max of:
1 4x4
1 1x4
4 2x2 rooms (*MAYBE a 5th 2x2 room)

Out of those 6 or 7 rooms 2 of them can NOT hold a dimensional anchor (The entrance and the Vault)

In order to have enough rooms for dimensional anchors and enough space for a Raid Teleporter YOU MUST Upgrade your plot to the 3.3 million prestige plot.


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Some have fit the raid teleporter in a 2 x 2 room. Until it is proven impossible, you can raid on a basic plot.

Add another 100 K for another Workshop. You're still under 2 million by far.

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Task Forces and Trials are also touted as available to everyone. Ever tried to recruit for The Cavern of Transcendence? Not much fun unless you have a very dedicated group. I'd have to say that must be one of the rarest badges still in circulation. Many aspects of this and any MMORPG require many people to participate in. If it were readily and easily available to casual players then why be more dedicated? Different people have different levels of participation.

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I'd have to agree with Warp there. Why don't you go and complain about how the Cavern Trial isn't for the Casual player and cry Nerf to it? It makes sense doesn't it? It follows the logic you've been preaching. The casual SG may not be able to finish it therefore we should all complain right? Certain things in any game require effort and dedication to. The game can be enjoyed by the casual gamer, it may just take them slightly longer to reach a goal. And why not? They're not putting as much effort as those who play regularly, why should a casual player be rewarded equally?

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Man if you read your arguments you will see just how hilarious you are.

I am not in a small SG so I have no basis for talking, well you aren't either so shouldn't you be quiet as well then??

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That's where you are wrong. You do not belong to a small, casual SG, so therefore no one should be hearing your opinion in this discussion. I belong to several SG's both large and small, therefore I can speak from experience.

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Also please forgive me, but I do not see anywhere where you breakdown the costs for a 1.5million raidable base. I still want to see this.


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Energy Room (2 x 2) = 150,000
Basic Generator (1000 Power) = 225,000
Control Room (2 x 2) = 100,000
Mainframe = 150,000
Workshop x 2 = 200,000
Basic Worktable = 25,000
Mission Computer = 75,000
Transport Room = 150,000
Vault Room = 250,000
Total so far = 1.325 million

A Raid teleporter, IoP Base and 6 Dimensional Anchors will bring you up to the 1.5 million mark. Take the 300 K bonus and that brings you down to the 1.2 million mark.

You may have to add in another Database in case you run into control problems so thats only 106,000 more. That is nowhere near the 4.5 million prestige mark you were talking about. This is the most basic raidable base you could create, and you could even trade basic the worktable and get your 25 K back after you craft the mission computer.

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You base your whole prestige calculations on FARMING prestige. I contend that nobody should be forced to FARM to earn their raidable base.

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You don't have to farm. Just run missions as a group like you would under normal circumstances but do it in SG mode. Or are you saying that an SG shouldn't be forced to group together? No they shouldn't but that's why they formed an SG to begin with right, to group and have fun together?


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That eventually, in a reasonable amount of time, say 12-16 weeks, that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base by just doing their missions. The data does support my contention. Doing regular missions and playing at a regular pace yields about 2.5K per hour. Go through some of the threads, you will see that number time and time again in multiple threads.

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The figure depends on the group. Certains SG's and player combinations are naturally going to be more efficient killing and completing missions than others. Get some real data then come back and talk, because everytime you can show me this number, I'll come back and show you a better one.

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The rest of what I would say has already been mentioned by at least two other people, so I won't repeat it. The sentiment is clear that you are in fact hilarious.

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Everything you say is assinine because you're arguing just to argue without actually speaking from experience. I love people who are on top of the world and try to speak for the little man. Now THAT is friggin hilarious.

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Maldini condescendingly babbled:

You're a small, casual SG. That's your problem right there. Though it is not impossible that you could have a raidable base, it is going to take you a lot longer than a bigger, more active SG. Don't like it? Tough [censored]. Start being more active, start playing more if you want to reach your goal of having a raidable base sooner.

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You might want to go read the CoV box.

Bases and PvP were not sold as end game, hardcore content. They were touted as right out of the box features.

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You're right. Any SG can start a base and anyone can enter a PvP zone and PvP. You cannot speak from experience on anything since you belong to a very large SG. No one needs you speaking on their behalf. I think they're pretty capable of that themselves.

Or maybe you just like to hear yourself talk and sound important?

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Maldini
I don't mind taking time to reach a goal. As long as that goal can be reasonablely obtained by having fun and playing with my SG members towards that goal and see some benefits of that , instead of grinding work as a SLAVE to an OVERBEARING DICTATOR of a SG Leader.
You may enjoying being part of a Grinding SG. I perfer enjoying the game playing with my SG members.

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We're not a grinding SG nor do we have overbearing SG leaders. What we have are group building SG nights, like any good SG should have. Our players are casual, so we don't grind everynight. ONE night last week I tried to get as many only as possible via our global chat channel. Many were on CoV and various other servers so it took some convincing. But a lot of them had fun while we all destroyed massive amounts of ninjas and several of our lower level members gained a few levels. We brought in several members from our lower level SG to get the Super Group SK badge, that way we could kill two birds with one stone.

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Maldini, you are hilarious.

If anyone wants to know the kind of player Maldini is, just look at this bit of data:

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Reged: 05/06/24
Posts: 1753


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In about four and a half months, he already has 1,753 posts here.

Can you say mega hardcore player?

So of course, his estimates for "reasonable" amounts of prestige a small SG can earn are totally off base. He is using Hardcore gamer logic to analyze the issues facing casual playing, small SGs.

I imagine he is unaware that the overwhelming majority of customers of CoH/CoV and every other MMO out there are the casual gamers. He ignores this because he thinks everyone is super hardcore like he is.

In other words, ignore folks like him when they try to tell you what a "reasonable" amount of effort should be for small SGs and casual gamers.

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You couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact that I have so many posts has more to do with the fact that I'm bored at work than the fact that I play so much. In actuality I play 3 days a week or 4 if I'm lucky and never play on the weekends. I play after I get out of work til it's time to go to bed. I would go so far as to say I'm a hardcore gamer. I'm anything but a hardcore gamer.

Not only am I an SG leader of a larger SG, but I also belong to several smaller casual SG's and therefore speak from experience.

Know the man, before you get ballsy and start talking about him.

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OK, from reading all of that I gather you do not think that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base. I am not exactly sure though because at one point you say all SGs should have a raidable base, then later you say small SGs should be quiet and settle for a PvE base. You contradict yourself in your writing.

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Actually no I didn't. Go back and read it again. What I said was :

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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.


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and

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For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.


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Not once did I say a small SG shouldn't have a raidable base. I think your brain is clouding your vision and you're twisting the things you read into some perversion of what it was meant to be.

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Anyway, my contention is the exact opposite of what yours appears to be. I believe that a small casual SG should have the ability to have a raidable base. Currently data shows that a small raidable base is about 50-80 weeks away for a small casual SG.


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No I believe the same thing. The only problem is that your data isn't right. What you should be doing is sitting down and trying to think of better, more efficient ways of earning prestige instead of complaining on the boards about how you'll never have a raidable base. There is no way in hell that it should take you that long, unless your entire SG is casual and only plays a couple of days a week at most. If that's the case then you have no room to complain. If that isn't the case, then motivate your SG to earn prestige and try to get them on at the same time together a couple of times a week. Those mission bonuses and AV bonuses multiplied by a factor of 5, 6, 7 or 8 really start to add up.

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Quick sidetrack, I hope you can follow all this: Also, consider that it is impossible, for a small casual SG to experience a lot of the high end content of bases. Nothing else in this game is impossible for a small casual SG to experience. Nothing, Statesman himself has time and time again said that this game is for the casual player, the little guy, the guy in the small casual SG. Since he has not added the caveat of "everything but high end base content" we must assume that a small casual SG is supposed to be able to experience this eventually. Well right now, it is impossible. Ok now back to the other stuff...I hope you are still with me here.

I contend that this time frame is too long. By the way, this is the point you should be attacking. You should give reasons why you do not think 50-80 is too long. A large portion of your argument apparently focuses on my leadership abilities and how I should get my small SG in line and what nots. That is just funny because I am not in a small SG as my signature indicates. I fight for the small SG, but I am not in one. Nor do I lead the large one I am in. But I digress....

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Not in a small SG? Then stop complaining because you have no experience to back it up. I need number to back up my argument? I already gave you them. A group of my SG mates and myself (my SG is broken up into two actually, a 50's SG and a main SG) ran Dead Scanner quite repetitively for a couple of hours and bank rolled over 100 K. Those are the facts and in reality the 8 man team consisted of people from two different SG's.


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You say make teaming mandatory, well for most small SGs that defeats the purpose of playing and who am I to tell the small casual SG what to do??

You seem to think that the only way small SGs should get prestige is to farm for it. Well I have news for you, a lot of small SGs don't want to farm prestige, they just want to play the game...By simply playing and not farming you get about 2.5K per hour.

I have read in numerous posts that a small raidable base costs in the neighborhood of 4.5million. Please break down your raidable 1.5million base. I have seen the 4.5 one broken down and it made sense. Please break your 1.5million one down further and enlighten us more.

The point of my whole argument is that neither the Devs nor NCSoft has said that a small casual SG should not have a raidable base. You might not agree, which is fine, but until the devs come out and say otherwise we must assume that the intent is for the small casual SG to be able to build raidable bases. Right now they imply through the COV primer for bases that "that's all you need" for a raidable base. They make it sound fairly easy. Well time and time again I have seen small casual SGs contend that they get around 50K per week. Well 50K per week makes a base nearly unattainable. And I say the 50-80 week time frame for a base is wrong and something should be changed. Heck if they want they can keep the prices the same for the large SGs, but they need to do something about the small SG.

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Okay follow this if you can, since you had a tough time reading my previous post: You're a small, casual SG. That's your problem right there. Though it is not impossible that you could have a raidable base, it is going to take you a lot longer than a bigger, more active SG. Don't like it? Tough [censored]. Start being more active, start playing more if you want to reach your goal of having a raidable base sooner. No other end game content doesn't take as much time for a smaller, casual SG? Well, nothign in the game can be comparaed to the base builder. It's a completely new, innovative option to the game that can't be compared to Hami Raid, or AV missions or Shard TF's, etc. plain and simple. You comparing bases to other end game content is like comparing apples to oranges and pretty assinine. You don't like it? Tough [censored]. Work at it.

The game IS for the casual gamer. A raidable base is end game content that ANY SG large or small has to work for, case closed. Some of the larger SG's on the Champion server don't even have a raidable base yet, so maybe you should put that into perspective and stop [censored].

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Now this isn't a rant that I can't find members, because I can. I've nearly doubled the size of my hero group as far as active players go. Truthfully though, I don't WANT an uber base right now, or really even ever. Wait, did I say that? Yes I did. I don't want an uber base, but merely one that can allow me to do something with all this salvage and maybe get some super group missions from that spiffy computer I hear about before the end of the year would be nice. As it stands now, no way that's happening (notice I didn't even include a hospital or teleport options in what I would like).



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You have over 15 members, so you should get the 300 K bonus. Therefore the minimum amount you need is 450 K to afford a base that can craft. Once you can do that, use the basic worktable to craft a mission computer. Placing it costs under 100 K so therefore you need at max to earn 550 K to afford the base you want. That can be earned by your SG in a few weeks to a month. That's not that bad, and if you focus your members on a goal and maybe throw in a couple of SG days where everyone should show up and give support for the SG by running missions together, then that timeframe can be severely reduced. The key is to work as a group. The more you can inspire your group mates to get together as often as possible and farm prestige, the closer you'll come to the base that you want.

Okay wiseguy, I guess I'll "enlighten" you a little so that maybe by the grace of God up above you'll stop whining.

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First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis.

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There's a simple solution to this problem: if you can't get a team of 8 then get a team of 4 or 5 or 6, etcetera. Be a good SG leader and set some time per week that SG should team together. Make it mandatory if you must, but if you want a raidable base then you need to be more affirmative with your SG. If you can't get a group of at least 4 or 5 then just forget about a raidable base because your SG has more problems then just not being able to afford a base. After all why shouldn't a very small SG take a much longer time to create a raidable base than a larger SG? It makes sense doesn't it?

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Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.

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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.

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Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."

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Acutally when you start factoring in multiple mission bonuses, boss and Lt prestige values, and maybe even some AV bonus for the sake of argument, 2.5 K per hour is an understatement. I was farming Dead Scanner with 8 of my SG mates and brought in over 100 K in around 2 hours. Can't fight AV's yet so that it can't factoring into your Prestige farming? Then either find some high level friends or focus more on leveling the characters in your SG before you think about base building. Besides if you try to raid, and go up against an SG of 50's they'll have an advantage over you in slots and enhancements. So yes, you can get quite a few hundred K prestige in a week, you just have to work as a group with a goal in mind. Can't do this? Then work on your leadership skills and authority in your own SG.

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Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million.

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Wrong, a basic raidable base will cost about 1.5 to 2 million. How do I know? Because I'm just about there and that's how much I've spent.

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Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week

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Now that I think about it, that may have been an understatement on my part.

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for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.

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If you guys really want a raidable base and have such a small SG, then you're going to have to focus your energies for a while. It can be done in less time than that, but you'll have to sacrifice your time and try and get more people to work together. Can't do that? Then stop complaining. The larger SG's have an advantage in that some of them actually have enough to form full teams to farm for prestige. You can't do that? Well then build up your SG, nothing more to say about that. For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.

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Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.

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Well then they're not trying their best and are obviously a casual SG. They're not? Then I could show them a thing or two about farming prestige. The more higher level players in a group, the easier it will be to farm prestige on a massive scale. If you don't have a lot of high level toons, then focus on building up your characters before all others.

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Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented.

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The data is skewed because not all of the smaller SG's on all the servers are represented here. And I don't have enough time in the day to read through every post. I got the jist of the thread in the few posts I did read. You should spend less time complaining on these forums and more time getting in the game and raking in the prestige.

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Which bots are the Warcry robots and where is the best place to hunt them? Do all Council robots count towards the Warcry badge and is there a verified total for that badge yet?

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Has anybody gotten this in game yet?

For those complaining about Small SG's:

You must have around 8 membes right? Well, your best bet would be to form a full team of SG members in SG mode and just start cranking out missions. After a couple of hours of this you should have at least 100 K. A couple of days of this per week and after a couple of weeks you should have enough prestige to build the base you want. Grab a couple more members to make use of that 20 K Prestige Bonus up to 15 members

Yep and once you log out, your bounty collected resets to zero.

Which bots are the Warcry robots and where is the best place to hunt them? Do all Council robots count towards the Warcry badge and is there a verified total for that badge yet?

So do Blackrose count for the Bladegrass too?

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Hey, I think that counts. If the damage I do to you weakens you to the point that a mob (or turret) kills you, that's close enough dammit.

Besides, that's about the best I can do. You have like 99.9% resists, it's insane.

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Lol, alright you got me.

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My prized kills have been SAMARITAN (inv/ss), Maldini (inv/ss also i think)



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Haha, you haven't got me yet, but came close Quason. My kill went to a turret which I can justify by all the debt I got after that.

Nice! I haven't respecced since I4 either. Three cheers for laziness! Hip hip hooray!

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I got to smack the CWK with Bert and quite a few other peeps last night...was great fun but short lived...had to go respec all my heroes for ED.



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I call shenanigans!

This discussion really adds justice to the Devs getting rid of the SG member cap. That way every member of the group can have all their alts in the group and whenever they play, they will be able to bring in Prestige for their group.

Of course if they refuse to do this, then it would be highly logical to either reduce the amount of prestige that things cost or increase the yield of prestige from missions and such. Another alternative would be to give 50's a bonus to prestige since they no longer earn influence and most are shelved after they hit the 50 mark.

Positron said in a post that "why would anyone want to have anyone but 50's in their group." Well my answer to that would be because there are very few supergroups that can even fill the 75 member cap with 50's. Besides that a lot of people like to play alts instead of their 50's, so more or less people won't have an SG full of 50's.

I just think that they need to do SOMETHING about the situation as the game because a chore and not fun just to be able to do something in it that is fun. That's counter-productive in my mind.

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Energy/Dark - Up to 7. I stopped when I got her to Cap, and then started playing alts.
SS/Invuln - this one's up to 15, but I only started her yesterday.

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Jeez Kali, do you work at all? You post a ton and you play a lot, man I wish I had more free time...

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I can't think of a reason why the devs would want to "avoid" having level 50's generate extra prestige. It sounds like a perfect reward for maxing out your character, to me.

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Why would you want anything other than level 50's in your SG then?

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Well according to States, a very small percentage of the population has 50's, so I doubt anyone will have enough 50's to fill up an SG. If they do, than it's mostly alts or groups that have been around for a very, very long time.

Also, some SG's have a dedicated Alt SG for 50's, so why not allow 50's to have something to do except collect dust and PvP?