MajorPrankster

From my point of view, you are here to vilify me. *shrug* Nothing I post at this point will probably change that viewpoint, but I can live with that.

I am not, in anyway, trying to postulate that all people who post negative comments are bitter. I am specifically, even from the OP, trying to discuss those posters who go 'over-the-top', that have carried their constant assaults on the game and the developers for years at a time, telling them things like they are stupid, the game will die in a short time, etc.

I do think those posters are full of bitterness and angst. I don't know what else to call it. You choose to call it assertive. That is certainly more gentlemanly of you, but I am not interested in being politically correct.

If you do not think I am presenting a worthwhile discussion, that's OK, I don't really need your support in particular to gain a better understanding of these particular people.

As for 'proper attitudes' IMO they do not exist. Every human on the planet, IMO, is entitled to their attitudes and opinions. I am simply curious as to why they hold them, how they came to have them and what makes them keep those opinions, especially in the cases where they seem so foreign to my own.

One poster gave a very clear example talking about PvP for instance.

As far as passion goes, while that is definitely a very big factor in the discussion, I am just as passionate about the game as many of the more negative posters. Passion is only a portion of it.

Game developers get death threats from players over changes to games. I don't think you can just ascribe that to passion to explain it.

The ideas I am trying to discuss here are more along the lines of why these, seemingly very upset people, after sometimes years of posting very hateful and bitter things about the game and the developers, will still pay to play a game that they appear to dislike so much.

As for your assertions that my statements are full of sarcasm and misanthropy, again, I can only state that I am trying to communicate, even I am not coming across the way I intend. I am not trying to be obtuse.

As for my real name, which you chose to attack just as you did my forum handle, it is my real name. *shrug*

Well then, I can only apologize for being human and incapable of always presenting my opinion in a non-leading manner.

I am not trying to frame the discussion in any particular light other than from my own viewpoint, which of course will be clouded by my own opinions.

This was not started on a weekend for any other reason than it's when I thought about starting it. There is no ulterior motive in it's timing.

At least one post in the thread has already been modded, so the OP has already been scrutinized.

Additionally, this is not, I think, the first time you have insinuated my forum handle is somehow inflammatory. It is simply a character name I used for a while that I thought was amusing. Nothing more. I do not have the ulterior motives you seem to want to attribute to me. If you prefer, My name is Coy. Feel free to use that instead.

Regardless of your interpretation of any previous posts, any of my (admittedly) snide comments and insults fired at anyone show nothing more than my, sometimes uncontrollable, frustration. I simply happen to get 'riled-up' over people and viewpoints just like anyone else does. In my personal inner dialog, I often attempt to analyze why I post and say what I do.

In the specific cases that I have gone on the offensive, my frustration has generally been aimed at ideas and viewpoints that IMO were trying to make changes to the game based upon purely emotional arguments. Combined with the frustration of many of the critics posting their emotional viewpoint in so many places, non-stop. It got old, I had my own tirades about it and stopped posting once I realized I was doing so from my own emotional standpoint rather than from a place of logic and reason.

The opening question was to prompt a discussion on the topic of why people get so emotional and bitter about a game. I have gained some confirmation upon the general reasons I already knew. I was hoping to get more than that and I have gotten a little more, but not much. Mainly, I think, because I am not as good at communicating my thoughts and viewpoints as well as i would like.

The answer to the original question is simple on some level, I will agree, but what I am interested in is the portions of our human nature that make us have the feelings of bitterness over a video game to the degree that many posters and players do.

If the discussing these things in the fashion that I choose is not pleasing to anyone, I am not going to apologize for it. I am not ashamed to ask questions that make people uncomfortable, nor am I opposed to answering questions that make me uncomfortable.

My only intent is to gain a better understanding of what makes people tick.

I am not somehow immune to being human, or to having my own opinions about what others think and post.

Perhaps it's simply because it's the product they choose to produce. I have seen the developers discuss the fact they consider themselves to be casual and not hardcore gamers.

Some will like it, some won't and it's financial suicide to even try and make everyone happy, IMO.

In the case of the trials, like anything else, there are simply people that don't like them. That does not make the trials, the reward structure around them, the people that like them or the players that don't like them right or wrong, sadist or masochist.

It just means the developers decide they wanted to make them and based upon the information they have, that there would be ROI in doing so.

IMO, nothing more, nothing less. No animosity toward players, just that the trials and the Incarnate system were are what they wanted to make.

Not that you will see this unless quoted...

So it's OK for you to voice your opinion and anger a few people along the way, but not OK for me to do the same?

And, frankly, we must be using different dictionaries for some things as well. From my point of view, many of your posts have been full of bitter rage, even if NOW you are not bitter.

Unlike you, however, I am willing to read a dissenting opinion rather than ignore it. This, in and of itself, is an aspect of the human brain the fascinates me as well.

I post and speak bluntly. Most of the world thinks that I am rude because of that.

In your case in particular, I have stated that a minority opinion is not something that the CoH development team can afford to cater to, simply because their goal must be to make money and cater to the majority.

Sam, you simply seem to find my bluntness and lack of empathy for you to be insulting, when, in fact, I am simply trying to point out a different point of view.


Again, it's not the content of the complaints that I am trying to understand. There are a number of things I would love to see changed/fixed in CoH.

It's the level of bitterness and rage to which the emotional and financial attachments you describe cause people to post that I am curious about really.

I am not trying to imply the moment you don't like something that you should stop playing.

An aspect of this is that I am curious about is what makes someone think the bitter, rage-filled rants are going to sway the developers or other players into making changes, vs. adhering to actual facts and logic arguments.

As an example, I love PvP. However, I do not like PvP in this game. Therefore I simply ignore it. No rage-filled posts of hate toward the developers or death threats to specific individuals on the team, I just ignore it on the boards and in the game (for the most part). I accept that PvP is not a priority for the majority of the paying customers and therefore has little to no ROI for development dollars and leave it at that. I do not rage on about it for years at a time, nor do I hold any animosity toward the company or it's development staff for not wanting to cater to a minority that would have very risky ROI.

Finally, to give an example of my PoV on why people think feel what they do...

When I went to college out of high school (wow was that really 25 years ago?), I was naive enough to think that, finally, at college I would be surrounded by people who wanted to think and learn. I mean, why else would you go to college if not to think and learn? That's what it's for, right? Of course, what I found was the same type people that I had been in high school with a year earlier, the vast majority of whom were simply free from parental supervision so they could do even stupider things.

That was a learning experience for me, just not the one I had planned.

I am well aware that my outlook on the topic of gamers and their mental state is not the norm, I simply like to discuss it now and then.

But even the chemical balances that cause illogical behavior can be analyzed.

Really though, this is the wall that I hit whenever I go down this road.

Humans, in general, seem to be completely ruled by their emotions moment to moment and have very little desire to look inside themselves to understand why they think and feel the way they do.

IME, they even resent people like me that want to figure out _why_ they think and feel they the things they do, be it the spicy food they ate giving them heartburn and thus making them cranky, or the way they have been taught to think and act by society.

The Mind is a beautiful and terrible thing.

While there are certainly names I could name right now, those have changed over the years.

Anyone that frequents the boards could easily find a few without looking too hard, simply by opening any of the discussions about the most recent changes.

The only group are those, as Westley mentions, that perhaps take the game seriously.

This is exactly one of the things that fascinates me.

I have been playing games as a main hobby for about 35 years now, so it is just the one I have the most experience with really.

But I see sports fans in my area get depressed for weeks at a time over what some people they have never met did on some field they have never set foot upon, much less actually participated in the event.

With games I can understand getting a bit more emotionally invested in PvP, especially team-based competitions, but getting as worked up as sports fans do when they can, in no way, have absolutely any influence over the final outcome, baffles me more than high level calculus.

While I understand your inference, the fact of the matter is, I genuinely would like to understand why people get so worked up over changes in the game.

Really, I would love to get more of an understanding besides 'some people are just that way'.

It just does not make any logical sense to me to get as worked up as some posters and players seem to over changes and what-not in the game.

So while my method may well appear to be a 'passive aggressive troll', it is not, in fact, my intent.

I am simply fascinated with what makes people tick and I prefer to discuss things bluntly.

While I can certainly understand having an agenda to get something changed, it's the getting bitter and angsty that I just do not get.

Any agenda, IMO, is better accomplished through rational discourse if your intent is to sway analytic people of the type that write code and have to make business decisions that show ROI.

While I am sure if I pugged more the chances of seeing it might rise, I still don't understand the hate for KB.

*shrug*

I would 1-star and avoid any player that even hinted at kicking someone over KB.

I have left numerous trials, I will say, when the leader got picky over other things, so I have at least seen similar things in game.

While I get that completely, IMO, a healthy rant now and then is not the same as a months or years long negative crusade..unless they feel REALLY bad about RL I guess...

I understand that and I tried to address it in the OP.

It still does not make sense to me for such a person to carry the level of hate and angst I am talking about for years at a time.

Not liking something, IMO, is way different than trying to get it destroyed, for instance, when a lot of players like it.

Now THAT'S bitter.

Never happened, not once. No team kicks, no team wipes, nada due to KB. Knowing how to use it is part of the fun.

Using KB does not equal bad player, no matter how much some posters might think it does.

If you don't enjoy KB, IMO, your loss. You have, I hope, people you like to team with just as I do though, so we can both enjoy the game.

The difference is I am not advocating for a change to fundamental mechanic in the game as some players do, I accept that some players like some things I don't but I expect the same courtesy.

IME, the only place that KB is ever discouraged is on these message boards anyway. I have not once on any team in City, ever, had a player say anything about anyone's KB, mine or another players. Some people seem to think that means they are just 1-staring the KB user and then quitting for another reason after a mission. So what? Obviously some players will mesh for any number of reasons where others will not.

As always, it's great to see the hyperbole and bitter angst over KB though.

I know it's never going to be removed, so no matter what, I get to continue to enjoy it.

This is the reasonable player!

Loving KB and lots of it does NOT automatically mean ruining other peoples powers!

We have heard that song for 7 years.

Got anything new?

Personally, I have never, ever, played the game for the narrative or even for the comic book genre.

I play the game because it is a fun way to kill pixels.

I have read the narrative enough to know most of it, but be it good or bad, it is not, at all, what keeps me playing.

On the other hand, my wife plays nothing but single player story based games.

We all have our tastes.

Again, you are talking about being efficient.

I am talking about having fun.

KB = Fun.

IMO, anyone that gets upset about KB is simply not someone that is playing to laugh and have fun.

I could not care less if my AoE only hit one target because it went off after a big KB power, be it mine or another players, because I am too busy laughing at the flying bad guys.

My friends and I compete with each other to send things flying.

Please add tons of KB to it, thanks.

The only dissent will be from forum posters more interested in rewards per minute than having fun. KB haters are not a majority, just a vocal minority.

Thanks for all the new changes Paragon!

Now THAT'S bitter!

The simple fact that you make this statement shows you don't understand my point of view.

I see that the developers have done an excellent job in convincing the forum goers that they, the developers, can be trusted.

I trust them to continue to make a great game and I am excited about each and every change, personally. With or without the forum goers approval.

I can clearly see that from Arcanaville's post that this is a pointless discussion.

I can just as clearly see a forum poster that just can't 'not be right.'

Personally, I have a whole lot more funny posts to show my co-workers over coffee.

See, it's gems like these that make me giggle.

Condescending, derogatorry and inflammatory while not actually breaking any forum rules. Golden. Good show!

I understand why the cottage guideline exists. It has excellent qualities and helps in preventing horrible things that have happened to other games.

I understand that there is a non-infinite number of players that might yell on the boards if this or that power were removed or drastically altered.

I understand that there might even be lost revenue due to some subscribers leaving.

However, I do not agree with the assessment that the delta of lost revenue from breaking the cottage guideline is any greater than that caused by any other change in the game, if both have been done with an eye to the big picture.

Therefore, breaking the cottage rule, IMO, would have no more of a negative affect on the game than the changes made to Total Focus for example.

See, it is possible to understand a viewpoint and disagree with it, all at the same time.

That's just it.

I am not trying, nor do I have a desire, to get anything changed.

At all.

I simply have an opinion about some things in the game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Discussing my opinions here will not, in any meaningful way, help me enjoy life.

I simply don't agree with some things that others do.

I am quite sure that if I post examples of powers of which I have a low enough opinion that I think they should be removed, someone will post their opinion as to why they should not be.

Nothing will change; I see that as a waste of time.

My point was made in the first sentence of my original post; I simply happen, in this case, to take a stance that disagrees with the developers, something I seldom do. It is not something, IMO, worth even discussing, because there is no resolution to be had from such a discussion.

I am not going to post something so enlightened and insightful that a developer drops what they are doing and runs to get a hammer, nor is anyone going to post something that causes me to suddenly and profoundly change my mind about powers I have disliked for years.

Therefore, enjoy your life as you will and I'll do the same, g'day.

I accepted the reality that people will complain about anything and that most of them are terrified of change a long time ago.