Madadh

I seem to recall that Atlas was always more popular mostly because of the plaza and the HUGE Atlas statue, but it got magnified WAY to the extreme when AP got a WWs and GC didn't..

Ah well. Bummer that.

Wonder if that's still the case. I've seen a few free games that can't have more than a couple thousand players, and likely a lot less, and they seem to have ads aplenty. I guess they could be giving away the ad space, but that seems... odd.. if true..

It seems everyone assumed you were playing an Empathy defender, but I don't see that specifically stated, so it might help us if you told us your power sets..

To answer your specific questions, as best I can with what you've said.....

1) If by instance, you mean Task Force, or Strike Force, then you aren't int he best starting zone for that. If you start in Praetoria, there are no TFs or SFs available to you. Only missions. If you start in Paragon City as a Hero, you can do TFs starting at lvl 10 (or maybe 11). In the Rogue Isles, SFs are available at lvl 15 I think. And yes, once you can access them, it is very possible to level on them alone.

But, as others have said, if you're playing as a healer only and neglecting all of your other attacks and abilities (buffs/debuffs/controls) you're really selling yourself a little short, in my opinion, and more importantly, in the opinion of a lot of the player base.

Dark Miasma type defenders make for great healers, and very powerful debuffers, and pretty decent controllers, and add in whatever attack set you get, could be very nice as a new player. Very able to solo when you can't find a team, and with a ton of healing nad other goodies to help out a team with when you join a mission team, or a TF/SF.

2) Depending on the server, and the playtime, this can vary a lot. I'd try Blueside and Freedom/Virtue/Champion/Justice as decent population servers if you play during day-evening hours in the US, or Union if you play late at night or early in the morning US time.

I'd also look into the mentor project, as others have stated. I'm not as up on that as others, so I'll leave it to someone else to help you with how best to find that group. 'H' on your keyboard brings up the help interface, and through that I think you can get to the help channel, which should also put you in contact with people that can help ya while live in the game..

Also, I can't stress enough how important it is to join and use your servers global channels for finding teams and just general community atmosphere. Lastly, Pocket D is almost always a good hub of activity on every server. If nothing else, just approach someone there and ask for assistance.. I know there is a gate to Pocket D in Imp City, just can't recall the details as to exactly where, or how it's labeled ont he mini-map.

3) Others have pretty well totally addressed this question, but I"ll add that the $ sign on the map and the W sign on the maps are places to buy and or sell in general... Not sure how the Praetorian Auction House shows on the mini-map either. Sorry, I'm like Lemur, and not in Praetoria a lot.

4) Yeah, Praetoria is a tougher learning curve than starting as a Hero i PC or a Villain in the RIs, sadly. And if you picked a more support oriented type, and also neglected attacks, then you will have a lot of problems for the moment. Once you find the global channels, or a different server, or start in a different place, tho, you'll have a lot less issues. If you're team focused and solo, though, you'll may find many places difficult. But not impossible. Once you find places to sell, you'll also bea ble to buy, and that alone may help you a fair amount if you can get kitted out with some DOs (dual origin enhancements) for your powers.

And you last question..... Wow, lots of stuff... But, here are a couple answers I hope will help..

1) This game is very flexible, with ATs and powersets. You can build a scary offensive attack juggernaut with a Defender, if you like. Or a great controller type with a Tanker AT. So don't fell confined by your AT. But, if you like a given role, great, but don't feel like you HAVE to play in a given way based on your AT.

2) Learn a bit about Enhancements and then Inventions asap. Use the invention tutorial. The invention tutorial will show up as a contact after level 10, regardless of where you start.

3) http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Main_Page If you have a question and can't find something about it in here, I'd be amazed. I love this tool.....

4) Lastly, if you don't know it yet, you can send tells to players, not alts, but the actual player by using their global IDs. All global IDs start with the @ symbol. If you send a tell to someone this way, they'll even get it (when they next log in) if they aren't in the game at the moment. In the chat line, you'd type "/t @Exampleguy, Message here" except without the quotes. Feel free to try hitting me up ingame if you have a question. @Madadh is my global, as well as my forum name. Hmm, so I guess that wasn't the last one after all, as that reminded me... When you start to feel a little comfortable, start trying to learn some of the slash '/' commands. It makes a lot of stuff easier. You can use the cohtitan wiki I listed above to look up Slash Commands if you are interested...

On the topic of my tiny exit poll.... And yes, it may be utterly worthless, but until I see a larger exit poll, it's all I have to work with...

It was meant to illustrate that I think most of the people departing aren't at this point, doing so because the cost if prohibitive..

I've heard many reasons.
1) New SO thinks MMOs are for nerds...
2) Double shifts leave no time.
3) Going back to school while working, leave no time.
4) It's so awesome a game I've become addicted and afraid I'll turn into a Gollum type creature chanting, "My precioussssss," if I don't leave now while I have a shred of willpower.
5) Bad run-in with customer support/tech support.
6) I've even heard people leaving based on a moral stance (Over a differnt topic altogether, and that's where this came up, it wasn't that anyone, certainly not me, claimed F2P was morally objectionable).

But the top 2 reasons by far have been
Boredom with the grind or lack of fresh content and
Didn't like the changes in the games direction....

F2P doesn't address most of these issues, and quite frankly, nothing CoH can reasonably be expected to do can address a lot of them.

But, F2P seems directly counter-productive to addressing one of the top 2.. Now, the new special story content in it could very well address the other of the top 2. Not sure which way that will swing, but, I would think adding in that special story stuff without going to F2P would be a better way to address people leaving.

I hope I clarified suitably in the previous post. I needless confused the topic, to my great chagrin, and then didn't realize where the disconnect was soon enough, apparently...

I'm sorry, it was a throw away comment meant only to prove some people will quite for very minor things and call it a moral stand. If a minor issue could become freighted with moral implications, than major changes can certainly engender a very strong negative response.

I'm am sorry that I was less than clear, but I didn't anticipate that minor statement to become a major focus. I never intended to imply that I thought that this change has any moral weight pro or con. As you said, this topic is not even vaguely a moral issue. (although I'm sure someone might try to find a way to make it one, but I don't see how). What would float my boat on this, is to table the tangent entirely. I'll take the entire blame for it, for the initial lack of clarity, and for then responding to what I felt was questioning my honestly. I should have said then and there that it was irrelevant to this discussion.

I seem to be less able to articulate in writing lately, and I find that frustrating, but I can only do my best, and in the meanwhile, offer my apologies for the confusion..

Sorry I was unclear. I'll attempt to be more clear for you.

You understood me perfectly there. But... You may be right, but I don't share your optimism. I'll try to explain why.

CoH has always been sort of a niche market. And thus not a heavy target of the RMT types. If under Freedom nothing else changes, than access for RMTers is easier, and thus combating it will be tougher. And I for one don't think they were as successful at combating it as I'd like. At least on some servers. So unless their revenue is increased by enough that they can devote more man-hours to stopping the RMTers, it will likely get worse..

Now, if they do increase revenue significantly, it's likely that it's because of more people, and specifically people that are willing to pay on the spot for things. Exactly they type of situation that will make the game more appealing to RMTers. Thus the RMTers that have ignored CoH due to it's niche market nature may not stay away.

It means that before the move to freedom, they game company had to try to keep the subscriber base in general happy to make money. Now, with a different business model, the need to rely on the subscribers for revenue stream is lessened.


I'm sorry that you have difficulty in following me, but I certainly don't see any circular logic in my statements. If I did, please point it out specifically so I can correct or clarify, as needed.

I know they have specific goals. They are a business, so I'd have hoped they'd not need to spell them out for anyone to know what their goals are. And I have no problems with them attempting to make money.. I WANT them to keep making money.

My goals are to

1) Illustrate that this may not be good for the subscriber base
2) May not be a great financial move for CoH as a result.

I really don't see how I could be more clear as to my specific objections. If there is a specific bit you don't get, point it out, please, and I'll do my best to restate it somehow..

And, speaking of things unclear. "I don't see you accounting for those points." I don't know what points I need to account for. But, if it's that you think they would be better off financially even if they lose their current player base by the change to the new model, I'll try to address that.

I will liken it to the auto industry.

CoH is like a Rolls, or a Harley, or Hummer. It's on the more expensive of the MMO market, and a smaller, buy very loyal customer base. They do get some new customers, but they lose some on occasionally as well, but mostly their market share is small-ish and based on a limited loyal group. They therefore aren't the most profitable company, but steady.

Now, Honda, Toyota, etc make a very generic, very affordable vehicle that's accessable to most everyone. They have very broad appeal, and are well crafted, but they may not be the most distinctive products on the market. But the broad appeal, and easy accessibility to the new customer makes these products the market leaders.

So, the CoH line is being redesigned. But, it may lose those customers that bought it for it's uniqueness. And, it will have to compete head to head with not only the companies already making Civics and Camrys in order to become more profitable, but with all the other companies that are making a similar marketing changes as well...

It may work out, and be a great windfall of cash. It may also fail. Now, I think risking the dependable revenue stream is a bad idea. Of course, all that is assuming that CoH wasn't hemorrhaging cash and it was just kept quiet. If it was, then yes, this move is probably necessary. But I don't recall anywhere where it was stated that CoH was losing money badly.. I might have overlooked that, but I doubt it.

Regardless of their previous status, they obviously think this is a worthwhile gamble. It's unlikely in the extreme that the forum community will change their minds, as I doubt that the devs and others on the COH staff that read the forums even get to make business decisions. But if there is a slim chance (even very slim) that they may have overlooked something, or underestimated a response, then I'm willing to take the time. I mean, work doesn't start for a few hours, my fav TV watching fun at this hour has been pre-empted today, and the game is down for I20.5, so I've quite literally got nothing better to do at the moment.

Very sterling point. And, as I'm not part of the closed beta, I have no contractual obligations to avoid saying.... I'm not part of the closed beta..
As far as I am aware, as I've seen not trace of an invite...

That said, I am totally OK with the new goodies as far as I've heard of them.. I love new goodies usually.... In general, and often specifically.

My reluctance is entirely based on the concept of giving the game away... Things are often worth what they are going for.... If the cost drops to nada, well, that often means something. Not to mention that there will be a marketing influx, which is already so bad on some servers that I avoid them.. I frankly don't want that sort of population expansion on the 'smaller' servers..

Well, if it's the most absurd thing you've read in months you're likely then months out of date...


The standards (not that I advocate them one way or the other) are the reward system of the iTrials.. I was thoroughly castigated for even questioning that someone might ever quit the game solely on such a moral stance.. But, like it or not, people do take such a stance, or at the very least, strongly claim that they do, so you can question that stance if you like.. I've tried, and been rebuffed to no small degree..

So, you can call call what I report absurd, but not my reporting.....

And as I'd not necessacerially just accept someones say so on a topic of social reporting, I won't expect the same of you either...

Here is a spot in the discussion when I am being rebuffed for doubting that people are departing the game based solely on a moral stand...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...258774&page=83

I frankly don't can't nor find it relevant if you are current, or able to totally understand and sympathize why people may leave the game.. I don't even care if I am current or able to grok, but I do care if we lose people... And that's why I want people to speak their minds...


I can accept that I'm a tiny minority. I'm not sure that in my hesitancy to accept a F2P format I am a minority, but I am often enough on other topics and for other reasons that I'll not debate it. As for it hurting the game's success... I honestly don't know.. I think it may hurt the format of the game to a significant degree that a sizable portion of the usual subscribers will depart. But, I will admit that it may bring in an almost equal number of subscribers different subscribers.. And if it doesn't, it may bring in revenue streams from other sources enough to compensate fro the subscribers lost... And this is the dialog I want to get started. I want to see if I a sizable enough response can be generated to give a realistic-ish (as I acknowledge that nothing truly scientific can be produced from this format) percentage breakdown...

We love you too.. It's endlessly funny to hear every month how it's SO much deader than the previous month.... If you all were 1/2 way accurate, we'd be down to .065ish of a player per month by now...

I'm just endlessly happy that I don't hear a thing from you while I'm putting together my usually full (at 5ish in the morn local time) tips teams..... OH!! I got it!! Perhaps your problem is that you log in to the FORUMS and not the game.... I'll agree, the forums can be deadish at 4:30AM.

I will grant the going F2P comment, as that has been acknowledged even by the devs, but, as for the numbers you quote.. Show me. In comparison to the same weekend last year.... Then tell me that not only is Freedom down #s wise, but so are all the servers, on average.... Because if you show me people just leaving Freedom to go to another server, we'll I state that this just balances. And many players would say that's a healthy sign of players getting wiser..

Um.. Not sure how your statement, although accurate, has even the slightest to do with my comments you linked....

You've got me totally confused over that one...

Wow, that's a very old debate that I didn't intend to open up here... But, as the can o worms is open, I bet a lot of folks would say that Union (and all the other servers for that matter) becoming more Freedom-like is not a reason to cheer. I play on Union in the middle of the dead hour myself, and find it plenty busy and welcoming even in the dead of night.

So, I'm not totally swayed by that argument.

Very fair question.. I love the idea that my friends that want to play the game but can't afford to can join the club....

But...

I'm far from rich, but, none of my friends that choose not to play CoH make that choice based on money.. I may be in the tiniest minority.. But I can only make my choices on what I know.. All of the people I know that leave CoH do so because of ideals or community issues. Many are influenced by money, but none that I know of tell me that's the core reason. Recently I've been hounded personally by a LOT of people telling me they are leaving the game based on moral standards. Well, maybe that is a big reason..

So, if that is in any tiny way true, then the cost won't help the game's quality...But the accessibility will change the nature of the game... If anyone doesn't think that having unlimited spammers can't change anything, then you aren't as savvy as the spammers.. Maybe unlimited /gignore and unlimited/smamage are needed for VIP accounts at teh least, but still spam is smarter than counter spam... It's a truism of the industry..

I have zero illusions about my ability to sway the course of the devs decisions.. Not only do I realize I have little ability, I am certain I have NO entitlement, as you seem to think I was stating.

I understand that they may have taken player input into account previously, and I am not so naive as t think they should or will let players dictate business decisions.....But I do believe that perhaps they'd be equally naive to totally disregard their subscriber bases interest... Even though it seems they may be trying to financially distance themselves from their tie to that subscriber base... But, I hope that said subscriber base understands that this move may be an attempt to make them less beholden to use regular subscribers. And if the regular subscribers see anything that concerns them, I would hope they'd speak up...



Lastly, did I ever state that I thought I had any right to dictate to anyone else how to run their business? I may have implied that I (when coupled with the rest of us) might have some ability to shift the best business model for someone else, but I never intentionally claimed any right to dictate to anyone how to run their business. As much as I'm a happy fan and customer of CoH at the moment, if they decide to charge 50 million dollars a month, I can comment on that plan negatively, but it is their decision. And, in truth, if they get 2 people to pay that rate, it may be a smart decision for them.

So, what gives me the idea.... Just the idea that perhaps I may not be alone on my opinions. And if I am not, that perhaps CoH as a company may not be willing to risk so many loyal fans.. But I could well be far off base. The general populace could all be with you and CoH on this.. As I said from the get go, I could very well be wrong... Heck, I could be VERY wrong, and this could go forward and be the best thing ever. I hope so, if it does go forward...

But, until then, I have the right to speak. And I speak of uncertainty about this direction, and encourage others with similar doubts to speak as well. I also encourage those whoe are sure this is a great idea to speak their mind as well. Tell us why this is a good idea, because I dont see it.. I welcome you to convince me...

I''m not intractable; I'm willing to be convinced, but so far, I'm not.

Taunt is NEVER a poor addition to any tank. It always opens up your choices.. It may not be *needed* by every tank, but it always makes a tank better..