MaXimillion_Zero

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Just to answer the OP, NO.
I don't understand the reason why you shouldn't pick THE defining power of tankers.

[/ QUOTE ]Except that taunt isn't the defining power, not after aggro caps got implemented...Aggro aura is.

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8:30, still not that late :P

[/ QUOTE ]It is when you have to wake up for school the next morning [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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6:30's not that late, surely?

[/ QUOTE ]No, but I live in GMT +2 zone, so it's 8:30 for me [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Hmmm... I have a few brute consepts, and some brutes I might reroll....The timing is kinda late tho'...

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a lot...

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I hear ya. basically what youre saying is that, while taunt may be just another tool in the toolbox or weapon in the arsenal.. it just happens to be such a incredible versatile tool or weapon that it just doenst make sense not to take it.
It is without doubt that the presented scenarios shows the usefulness of taunt. Without taunt one would have to come up with different tactics to solve the problem.

This is not the issue.

The problem is the lack of respect towards tauntless tanks from the taunt-camp. They are told that they are "bad" and "careless" and "not fulfilling their potential".

Should even the tauntless tanker present their experience of tanking and that they never recieved any complaints and did pretty well they are met with scepticism. Their knowledge and experience disregarded and refused to be taken seriously.

This is what set me off and makes me play the devils advocate in this matter, the inability and refusal to accept and respect someone elses style and just depreciatory proclaim them "Scrankers", barring them from the "Gentlemans Club of Proper Tanking"
It is nothing short of Elitism, something i find despicable.

I can play a tanker with taunt.
I can play a tanker without taunt.
I overcome the problem.
I find the solution.
I dont rely on a crutch.
I use the tools at my disposal.
If for some reason I am unable to use a tool, I use another.
I achieve my purposes.
I tank.

[/ QUOTE ]5 Imaginary stars for you [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It does not need ToHit for Pve, and not really for PvP either. Slot it with 3 rech 3 defbuff, or 3 rech 2 defbuff 1 tohit.

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-Phantom Army can cause more destruction then it does good.

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Oi, oi! stop the fight ladies! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. PA more destruction than it does good? ROFL Surely not when a proper troller is at charge

[/ QUOTE ]That's why there's a CAN, instead of DOES [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.

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As well as Disruption Field if you team with a sonic defender/controller.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, yes, and loads of other powers as well, but this was about FF [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

It's not nerfed, it's just not as needed, since regen has QR.

Claws is such a low cost primary that I'd try it without stamina.

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I would say that the highest AoE damage blaster is by far fire/fire. Aim+build up, fireball, fire sword circle, combustion. pretty much everything in a +1/+2 spawn lay on the floor. There's no way AR can compare to the sheer destruction that a fire/fire blaster can lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]Build up, FSC, combustion, flamethrower, buckshot, full auto, M30.

I think stun is the better mez of the two, so if you're not afraid of melee I'd go for it.

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-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]....dispersion bubble is a PBAoE +def buff, which causes no aggro...

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Did I go wrong on this one? The other day I teamed with a Force Field defender. (and I love to be on the receiving end of bubbles) During our teaming he got this bubble. And after that he went down alot more times then before. Maybee it was Repulsion Field instead but I can remember seeing the green shield buff in my buff-tray.

[/ QUOTE ]Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.

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-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]....dispersion bubble is a PBAoE +def buff, which causes no aggro...

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Its much easier for an Ice tank, because the mob you left is slowed and wont disperse.

Its much harder for a Stone Tank, and IMO effectively impossible for a granite.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, the movement penalty really hurts stone, and I'd never try building a stone tank without taunt.


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Its still a risky strategy at best - dashing out of the cluster to punchvoke the straggler. Taunt is much more effective (auto hit, ranged, no endurance cost, hits 5).

[/ QUOTE ]And when there's two groups of 8 foes in different parts? [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Any anyway, Are you mind set A or mindset B? [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]I'm mindset C, I keep foes under control, group them as well as the situation allows, and do my fair share of damage as well. I don't always keep full aggro, but that's fine, every AT can take a few hits.

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See, another tank can just move next to those foes in a second or two, while stone needs taunt to get them.

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Really? And almost immediately lose agro of the group he was standing in the middle of and the rest of his team is firing into? They'd really thank you for that.

[/ QUOTE ]With my ice tank, I can move around with superspeed and keep aggro from 3 or 4 seperate groups (provided I don't hit aggro cap), with just CE. And that's with only one EndRdx in it, no taunt duration enhancers.

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also, still havent got the hang of all the lingo in this game yet...whats a "tick power" and whats fulcrum shift?

[/ QUOTE ]Fulcrum shift is the last power in the kinetics set (Available for Defenders, controllers, and corruptors). It emits a damage boost from each foe in it's area of effect, which means when used on a big spawn it boosts everyone enough to bring them to damage cap (apart for maybe brutes, since their damage cap is way higer than others).

A 'tick power' is any power that applies it's effect in 'ticks', ie. new effect after every set perioid of time. Examples include rain type powers, caltrops, any attacks that do DoT (Damage over time), and auras like Oppressive gloom, CoF, Chocking cloud, and mud pots. For example, a damage aura 'ticks' every time it checks it's AoE for foes, and applies damage to foes in range.

You...Took....CoF....over....ET....?

Somebody bring me my gamma ray emiter, this person must be sterilized for the good of the gene pool!



Ok, maybe not going that far, but you really, REALLY should take ET ASAP, it's one of the highest damage attacks in the game.

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Stone is a bad recovery tanker early levels but its a great aggro holder if on a good team that works to help the stonetank keep aggro (if built to do it).

[/ QUOTE ]Sure, stone can be very good aggro holder. It's still Worst in most situations, and only beats fire when foes are hard to hit.

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I recently joined a PuG, the tank was a Stone/Stone without Taunt, he relied upon mudpots to generate all of his agro and the only thing he managed to keep on him was 3 or 4 minions, 10-15 other foes went straight for the rest of the team - the outcome was a team wipeout - theres no way he could run to us and draw the agro away quick enough.

So no a Tank isn't a proper Tank without taunt, its a key skill required for a Tank to apply his trade.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd say that basing your conclusion on stone armor is kinda ignorant, since stone is the worst aggro holder.

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Taunt is necessary to pull agro from ranged foes and distract them from squishier members of a team - hardly a situation were punchvoke is possible.

Many times I've managed to stop team mates from getting overwhelmed by foes running at them... and yes, by Taunting them, without Taunt that wouldn't have been possible.

So actually it is far from ignorant and very relevant - without it, I couldn't do my job properly. While I used the Stone tank as my example, it does apply to other Primary tank pools.



[/ QUOTE ]See, another tank can just move next to those foes in a second or two, while stone needs taunt to get them.

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I'd say that basing your conclusion on stone armor is kinda ignorant, since stone is the worst aggro holder.

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That may be true according to the numbers, but tactically it's certainly not. A stone tank can, if given a few seconds without anyone interfering, gather up all the agro in a room and take the punishment without any backup.

[/ QUOTE ]I wasn't talking about taking damage, I was talking about holding aggro, because that's what the person I was replying to had problems with.

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I recently joined a PuG, the tank was a Stone/Stone without Taunt, he relied upon mudpots to generate all of his agro and the only thing he managed to keep on him was 3 or 4 minions, 10-15 other foes went straight for the rest of the team - the outcome was a team wipeout - theres no way he could run to us and draw the agro away quick enough.

So no a Tank isn't a proper Tank without taunt, its a key skill required for a Tank to apply his trade.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd say that basing your conclusion on stone armor is kinda ignorant, since stone is the worst aggro holder.

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Tar Patch was not really a useful part of my build

[/ QUOTE ][img]/uk/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]!!![img]/uk/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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And the early 20s have 3 "no new powers" slots at 20, 22 & 24.

[/ QUOTE ]Fearsome stare at L20, no?

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I cant see how one can say that Invun is the one set that shouldnt take taunt. Its the one set that must. What can a level 1-17 tank without taunt add to a team other than taking the alpha strike and then acting as a half mast scrapper? why not just get a scrapper?

[/ QUOTE ]Keep aggro with punchvoke. Maybe not the whole spawn, but the foes that would be most dangerous for the team.

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Don't Plant Dominators get like Perma Mass Confusion at lv8? Maybe the devs could really look at the recharge of this power. Would it really be that overpowered with a base recharge of 60 secs? I might actually get it then.

[/ QUOTE ]The thing is, mass confuse is longer range, higher target limit, longer duration(?) and doesn't cause aggro, unlike seeds.