MaXimillion_Zero

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and mobs don't stack on top of each other any more.


[/ QUOTE ]They do, at certain spots.

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Riigghhht

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Now I can't tell if you're trolling or just being a [censored] about this. It's not difficult to be civil and actually explain what you're talking about instead of mocking everyone who posts something that doesn't fit with your nebulous concept of "Taunt".

[/ QUOTE ]But surely that wouldn't be even half as fun

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out of interest, how many can you herd at once?

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No where near as many as before taunt was weakened. Not even half. Max doesn't know what he's yapping about.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, I obviously know nothing about the game mechanics, unlikje you, who're a never-mistaking fountain of Co(H/V) knowledge. (As shown by your earlier posts in this thread)

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i think the aggro cap reduction is similar to a nerf to taunt but its a aggro cap reduction to anyone. Anyone can round up 17 and no more, a blaster can hit a group of 16 and get them on his butt, but when he hits another group of 16 a moment after he may just have 1 more than 16 on his case. After dropping some of the first 17 comes the Conga line of stupidity whereby those you hit, wake up to of been hit and take an interest in you.

[/ QUOTE ]That's correct, it was a change to the mob AI, not the tanker AT.

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Why don't you try it with the freakshow. After all, they're S/l in the main. Get someone to buff you if you need to. See how many you can pull.


[/ QUOTE ]17, since that's the aggro cap. I could, depending on group size and locations, have maybe 50 or so "active" (ie. they'd aggro on me if it wasn't for the cap). Of course, if it wasn't for the aggro cap, I could move the herd around and add mobs to it. Taking groups with only minions and lieuts, I figure my ice tank could survive somewhere between 50 and 100 freaks without external support for long enough herd them into a neat group (And dispose of them, if it wasn't for the AoE caps. And he's not even a /fire tank).

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Have you played any RWZ content yet Faultline? seeing as there is also a generic hero called "Faultline"!! who has granite armour and stone cages...a troller/tank combo nice! I'm surprised they haven't genericised your alt yet?

back to OP, would have loved to help, but can't make sunday night...sorry!

[/ QUOTE ]If the player is older than the CoH character, the player can keep the name.

Then again, faultline takes his hero name from his father, who has been in CoH lore since the game launched...

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Inv/Fire might take twice as long as fire/fire to kill the mobs, but when you have 100+ foes herded together, that's still far to high XP rate.

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Not denying it. that's why taunt had to be weakened.



[/ QUOTE ]Weakening taunt had nothing to do with it. I could still do it just fine with my tank if it wasn't for the aggro cap. And that tank doesn't even HAVE taunt. Obviously killing would take much longer with the AoE cap on attacks, but the herding itself is only countered by aggro cap, not taunt nerf.

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Ofc you care. If you didn't you wouldn't reply.
If you've tried playing an Inv./fire with 2 potent AoE powers, 1 Cone attack and perma Hasten + herding foes into the bunch I wrote about before and using Greater Fire Sword, the kill rate and the health bar pretty much speak their own language.
Please note that I wrote I4!

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Fire primary used to enable you to kill minions just with aoe. And invuls can't. Add that to fire secondary and you have THE most powerful Tank of the lot.

Course it's been nerfed but back prior to I4...

[/ QUOTE ]Inv/Fire might take twice as long as fire/fire to kill the mobs, but when you have 100+ foes herded together, that's still far to high XP rate.

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double the herd cap


[/ QUOTE ]This.

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Positional defence IO bonuses are virtually useless to tankers, since the Ice and INV primaries work off typed, not positional defence. The only thing they'd normally affect are psionic attacks, since there is no defence to toxic and other attacks will be deflected by the AT's higher typed defence.


[/ QUOTE ]There's no TYPED toxic defense, but toxic attacks with a positional component are blocked by positional defense. Oh, and stone primary is typed defense as well

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You're refering to herding which was as a result of being able to taunt an entire line of sight in one go. Taunt was the single invulnerable power that, for that reason and because it meant healers and controllers were not really necessary, was overpowered.

[/ QUOTE ]Taunt is not needed for herding, and never was. Aggro auras are there for a reason.

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I don't see that one changing personally. Or if they do they would more than likely balance it up by reducing Invincibilities defence by 5%.

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Originally, unyeilding meant you were rooted to the spot.
When the devs changed that, in order to maintain the balance of the power they, rightly or wrongly added the 5% debuff. That was back when unstoppable was perma and when Invul tankers were far more powerful than they are now.

So, now that the circumstances upon which the 5% was introduced have changed so dramatically, why do you feel they would have to create a zero operation by swapping one 5% with another?

The point is is that the 5% debuff is outdated and unnecessary and, in view of our current weaker state a handicap rather than a balancing factor.

[/ QUOTE ]When your defensive capabilities were reduced in I5, that debuff was in place, and taken into account when calculating the new, more balanced values. Therefore, removal of that debuff would mean reduction in other defenses, unless invul is underperforming other primaries (Which, from what I've seen, isn't the case).

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That's a job for the guys over in the USA. They seem to be doing a pretty good job. Problem is, they state their case very eloquently, and have done for years, but the devs don`t listen.

[/ QUOTE ]The devs listened on ice tanks, and they were changed. If invul won't be, that means invul isn't underperforming statistically.

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They all know the solution but they also know the devs won't implement those solutions. So they constantly look for compromises. At the moment the -5% unyeilding is flavour of the month.

[/ QUOTE ]Just asking to remove that isn't going to work on the devs though. You need to show that invul underperforms compared to other tanker primaries, and that removing the -5% def would bring it in line with the others.

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Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power


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Did you just write what I think you wrote..

No +HP Power..

Are you yanking my chain - what about healing flames!

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Since when does healing flames add to max HP?

[/ QUOTE ]Technically, healing flames is +HP, while dull pain and the like are +HP and +Max HP.

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On the american forums they want unyielding debuff removed, in a way this is asking for extra damage mitigation to almost all damage types.

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I don't see that one changing personally. Or if they do they would more than likely balance it up by reducing Invincibilities defence by 5%.

[/ QUOTE ]And since that's hard to do fairly with inv scaling as it does, it's far more likely that UY will retain the -def.

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This then means, that in a team that faces, for instance, COT, no matter how well we are performing, because we cannot utilise our primary powers fully, (can't take the damage) any other AT in the game can take our spot and, because their primary is working fine, can fill the team space better than we can. BABOOM.

[/ QUOTE ]And yet, you seem to be the only tank in this thread who's having problems taking damage.

(Seriously, CoT? They hardly even DO damage!)

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Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers. And I actualy play mine very well. This is a nonsense arguament. That they were slow levellers is a fact not an opinion.

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It's everything but fact. By FAR the fastest way to level solo was playing a fire/ or /fire tank, herding and burning hazard/trial zone spawns.

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You are correct about fire/ fire. However, as the title of this thread is invulnerable tanks, and as I have made it clear I am referring to invulnerable Tanks can you forgive me for assuming you must have known that I was referring to invulnerable tanks from the off?

[/ QUOTE ]Is said Fire/ or /Fire, not Fire/Fire. That includes Inv/Fire. Just because not all tank sets were fast solo levelers (And any tank teamed with a blaster was pretty much the fastest leveling duo btw) doesn't mean you can say that tanks were one of the slowest levelers, because they most certainly weren't.

It's like taking a look Earth/ and Ice/ controllers of today and stating that controllers suck at dealing damage.


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And do you honestly think I can't stand up against Rikti or anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ] Since you yourself said:
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Against everything else it simply isn`t. Particularily now, with the psionic damge of the Rikti, which covers the entire of issue 10.

I am not yet fully IOed (with the sets I mean) but currently cannot withstand 8 team damage for long if the damage is anything other than S/L.

So, in those senarios I don`t always taunt.

[/ QUOTE ], I'd have to say yes.

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You know what, I miss the american forums. No one is as flamy or infantile as here. They just aren't so pedantic. it's mostly adult discussion and they just don't generally try to knock posters from pillar to post the way you do.

[/ QUOTE ] Feel free to use the ignore feature if you dislike my posts.

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Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers. And I actualy play mine very well. This is a nonsense arguament. That they were slow levellers is a fact not an opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]It's everything but fact. By FAR the fastest way to level solo was playing a fire/ or /fire tank, herding and burning hazard/trial zone spawns.

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I was saying we were not unkillable.

[/ QUOTE ] So, it's fine if it takes a 100+ foes to bring you down, as long as it's possible for you to die?


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We`re actually not as strong against S/L as we once were. Certainly not without tough.

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I`m actually not sure about that.

[/ QUOTE ] Yet you keep making statements like these as if they were facts.

Oh, and calling yourself one of the best tanks in the game is pretty arrogant, although considering how you state you can't tank for an 8-man team against rikti, it comes out more as ridiculous.

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Fire tanks can only hit the resistance cap vs fire

[/ QUOTE ]And toxic

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But it's the same for every AT out there.

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Invulnerable Tankers were hit FAR harder than almost any other AT.

[/ QUOTE ]No, they really weren't. And they're not an AT either.

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Surely the defining requisite for overpowered is levelling. Tankers were one of, if not the slowest levellers.

[/ QUOTE ] Not when played well.

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Secondly, the only time the Tankers were unkillable is probably middle to late thirties.

After that psionics, sappers, any energy sucker, malta, untyped damage etc, could and did cause us trouble.

[/ QUOTE ] But you don't need to fight those foes, you can make it from 40 to 50 figthing nothing but freaks if you want.

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We`re actually not as strong against S/L as we once were. Certainly not without tough.

[/ QUOTE ] With tough and proper slotting you hit the S/L resist cap, while also having quite high defense.

I've got group fly on my PB, he won't be much use in human form but can help with that at least.

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In other words I get hit more often.

Er isn`t this the point I was making?

[/ QUOTE ]No. You were claiming that you'd always get hit 5% more often with it on. This is untrue, the actual increase in being hit can be anything between 0% and 100%.

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So can I aggro someone without taking damage?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, although that's rarely necessary.

And even if the tank was taking damage, and had no way of mitigating it, it can be mitigated by other support characters. However, those other support characters can NOT focus the aggro in the way a tank can. Therefore, aggro control is a more important job for the tank.

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Defence may not. Unyeilding does. We get 5% more hits than we would do otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]No, you don't, 99.9% of the time.

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Eh?

Max, unyeilding gives you a -5% debuff. It is operational the whole time unyeilding is up. If it`s up you get hit 5% more than if it isn`t up. 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]Like Spad, me and moog have told you, that's not how defense works.