Lycantropus

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  1. Quote:
    The worst aspect of Superman Returns was that Superman used his powers for creepy, inappropriate and therefore non-heroic activities. Sure, many of us would be tempted to play peeping tom if we were given x-ray vision, but the point of Superman is that he's a decent guy who wouldn't do such a thing.
    The best way I was able to justify that scene is that it was trying to illustrate how much of an outsider he was. He was the protector looking over everyone, however this also allowed him to see a life he could never have, but wanted. Makes it a little less creepy, but I'm not going to try too hard to defend a movie I really didn't like anyway for so many other reasons.
  2. I have to say I liked it. So did my father (went for father's day) and he collected the Green Lantern comics back in the 40's and 50's so his word is good enough for me

    I like Green Lantern, I'm not a big fan, but I'm not a stranger to the story either. I have long since learned to 'turn my brain off' to a lot of the technical aspects of a film and just watch it.

    The CGI wasn't bad but in a few places where you could see the 'zippers' so to speak. The acting was good enough... The biggest complaint was a few areas of pacing seemed off somehow, but there was a lot of story to get through.

    At the end of the day, it's an action movie about a popular comic book hero. I liked the theme they were trying to present (I actually liked the Parallax origin story and look far better than the comic one). For those who think Parallax looked like a big dust creature, watch carefully for the faces stretched in agony and the skeletons of its victims reaching out to pull others in over the length of its psuedopods. I liked the character of Hal Jordan. Not exactly the way he was presented originally in the comics, but this one fit into the story well with the theme of awakening the courage within himself. I can see the Hal Jordan we know being better represented in sequels, or a JLA movie, if they do either. This was about him maturing and 'coming into his own' responsibilies.

    All and all a fun film. I think we need to stop over analyzing these movies for the most part and just enjoy them for what they are, or they're going to stop making them.
  3. I'm okay with the Rocketeer on the list too. It's not a bad film, and is a link from modern filmmaking to the old serials which is why I think it should get the nod. However it would have just made the list at 10 I would think. Blade 2, I don't get, and Iron Man definitely shouldn't have been at 10.

    I can see Mask of the Phantasm because this is about film, and that made it into theatres, respresenting one of the best runs of Batman out there.

    I would have at least included Woody Harrelson's Defendor or Kick-*** over Blade 2, but otherwise I can't argue much over the choices except maybe the order.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
    So, we're supposed to clean up Galaxy City - we definitely wouldn't want messy streets when those meteors hit.


    I can see it now, glowie trash piles all over GC. You get the "Mr. Clean" badge after you've picked up 1000 pieces of garbage.
    That was actually the first thing I thought too, when I first read it, and thought NEAT!

    That's a very cool activity for lower level heroes and something that can be incorporated later into places like Kings Row and Perez, for example.

    Villainside would be the opposite; arson attemps (like the burning buildings in Mercy) and acts of vandalism (click on a glowing spot on a wall to get a stylized version of your name on it, or maybe even your chest symbol if you have one).

    Anyway, I bet it's about the meteors too...
  5. I make the most of it simply by playing the game. I used to burn through console games in a week/week and a half, then I'd be back at the game store seeing if there was anything interesting on the previously played rack. If nothing else, playing City of * has saved me a TON of money.

    I love exploring zones, used to go around taking screenshots of storefronts, business signs, and bilboards I hadn't seen before (like that new 'super' energy drink one in Galaxy I saw last week- when did they put that one up?!). I've occasionally thought about writing up reviews of the places/products/shows being advertized, but just haven't had the time.

    It's really easy to let little details of these beautiful zones slip by when you're just running from mission to mission. Take a stroll in the woods of Perez sometime (when you're high enough level to ignore the mobs) or check out some of the details on the skyscrapers in Steel (there's some really neat screenshot opportunites out there), and I love wandering around St. Martial at night around the casinos. The graveyard in Dark Astoria's really neat too. I gained a level on my main waaay back in the day just exploring that while I was in that level range.

    I have alt-itis too, and have probably played every powerset to at least level 20something at one point or another. Understanding the sets can help you learn better play habits too, expecially how the different AT's work.

    Try everything at least once or twice, regardless of how you initially feel about it or what others say. Who knows, you might like PvP, Base Building, making AE stories, and who cares what folks say about the Hollows, it's a neat storyline. Try it out! There's a lot of players out there who will tell new players 'avoid this' or 'that zone sucks' etc. having not enjoyed it themselves, or sick of it from the umpteenth millionth time running through it. New players that heed that advice will never have the opportunity to be sick of it, or enjoy it, themselves.

    In that vein, Oroborous is your friend. I use that a lot. Leveling up a character and teaming has you miss out on a lot of storylines just jumping from one mission to the other, often times cycling through differnt teammate's missions. When nobody's on and I'm in the mood, I run Oroborous arcs. That gives me the advantage of seeing a story from beginning to end at my own pace, and build up merits for stuff I want. It's like having your own mini-TF's! There's a lot of old missions that hint and lead into stuff that has been added to the game, like the Midnighters, and the Path of the Dark.

    Last, but not least, have different goals for different characters.

    I have one character that runs only tip missions and moralities, another that I solo and have been slowly following all the storylines with.

    One hero, villainside, that I run newspaper missions with and design story arcs based on what missions I take (He's trying to take back the Rogue Isles. I keep a journal for him).

    I have a couple characters that I just built crazy to see what I can do with them. I have a Controller I play like a Scrapper, for example. He has Acrobatics, Fighting and Super Speed, and I plan on getting either Leadership or Presence depending on how endurance works out.

    Or it could be just as simple as one character I have. I will stop to help any NPC in need on that character. For him, it's not about what the reward is, it's about doing the right thing. Sometimes it takes him a while to get across a zone to his missions

    Characters like the Scraptroller or the Do-gooder above I solo. I'm not going to inflict those idiosyncrasies on anyone else. I just mentioned them as things I do to keep myself interested and entertained.

    Hope these help!
  6. Depends on the character, though most would probably save the people.

    Lyc doesn't have any family to speak of. He kind of left his past behind when he got turned into a werewolf, though he didn't have a wife or any kids either. I figured by the time he got a handle on it, he'd been presumed dead for years, and both he and his home had changed so much (when Salamanca re-opened it's access to Paragon- I didn't have a specific 'home' determined for Lyc before then) he didn't really look back.

    In any event, even if it were total strangers, he would go to save them first. He had to work hard to hold on to his humanity, and he would see letting them die as a perilous step away from it, even if it meant letting the bad guy get away.

    However, he wouldn't forget, and would make the villain regret ever putting innocents in jeapordy the next time they crossed paths... Even as a hero, a werewolf isn't a gentle creature...
  7. This isn't a bug with the pack, but this seems like the best place to put in the request.

    I really am enjoying the new stuff, love the new backpack options (I now wait with baited breath for my long desired jetpacks...) and the new temp power, The Steam Jump power.

    I notice it's pretty much the same power from the Good vs. Evil edition with one exception. It has a 30 second recharge time, while the GvE version has a 2 min 30 second recharge time!

    I wondered to myself why the difference and realized the GvE edition was made before Ninja Run, Beast Run, and many other new modes of travel of travel and movement became available. You guys don't seem as concerned about them 'taking over' as you used to be, and that's very cool.

    Anyway, I'd like for you guys to consider reducing the recharge time on the GvE Jump Pack to put it more in line with the Victorian one for those that have a more high-tech concept (or make jetpacks available soon!!!) Both would be great, though

    Lyc~ the wistfully wishing werewolf
  8. I really think there's a disconnect between players and the Dev's on the incarnate system at this point.

    Per Positron:
    Quote:
    Hey guys and gals,

    I just want to chime in here and address the Ascension Armor issue that has come up and give you all some background on the idea. We’ve been reading all the posts and love the positive reception that many players are giving this between-issue update, and while I am going to give you the rationale behind the decision to gate the Ascension Armor behind the Incarnate system, I already know that the answer will not satisfy everyone, but at least you should understand where we are coming from.

    When we first started working on the Incarnate System we knew that it needed a certain amount of awesome attached to it in order to get people interested in actually doing it. If there were not specific rewards tied exclusively to the system, then people will simply continue to do “whatever is easiest” to attain the new rewards created for it.

    We also know that not every player in the game has the same motivations. Some players are attracted to the increase in power, some find the collectible nature of something to be appealing, and some look towards cosmetic improvements as their primary motivator.

    We tackled the first two with the Incarnate Slots and various levels and variety of Incarnate Abilities. The last one is what we are dealing with in the Keyes update. Our goal is to put some appeal for everyone into the system, make it as full-featured as possible.

    So with “cosmetic” as a reward type, we wanted to do some cool stuff we hadn’t done before. Cosmetic rewards are the hardest types of rewards to work with. Where do you draw the line between “reward” and “required”? We know players love to have options for their low level alts, and we did keep that in mind when creating the cosmetic rewards for the Incarnate System. We even executed on entirely new ideas, like Path Auras (and that worked out so well that it’s been co-opted into other areas like the Steampunk Pack). And of course the granddaddy of all things cosmetic is costume pieces.

    The Ascension Armor is NOT some random costume set that we locked into the Incarnate System. Every step of its design was under the assumption of “only available through the Incarnate System, and only to level 50’s.” David Nakayama knew this before he ever started working on the armor, in fact it was a driving motivation in the concept art he delivered. He specifically made something that could be used in pieces to augment your character’s existing costume to give it the “I’m an Incarnate” flair.

    Going back and changing any of the restrictions on the armor now would be doing a disservice to the art team and how they worked their butts off to make a cosmetic reward for the Incarnate System that had a look and feel made specifically for it.

    I hope this explains our rationale behind the decision to gate cosmetic rewards in the Incarnate System. The entire studio worked really hard to make this system and everything about it super-special, and my hope is that everyone can find appeal for the system in some form.
    To me it seems the decision was based on giving us more reasons to want to do the trials, and therefore find them more enjoyable. Where the disconnect is coming in is that I don't think they understand that there are people who don't enjoy them or want to do them (especially in the ammounts needed to get the rewards they want) and that there are some who don't want to participate in it at all, and they're feeling completely left out in the cold...

    I don't mind the trials, and even enjoy doing them from time to time, but the demands seem way too high to get where you want with just 2 (or soon to be three) repeatable ad-nauseum options. Now, I will admit I haven't seen what prices there are for the unlockable costume/aura options, however, based on what I've seen to this point I find it completely believeable they are rediculously overpriced to keep people grinding away.

    The itrials. It's not the best way to get neat incarnate stuff... it's just the ONLY way...
  9. How about a world where Cole and Richter found each other after the incident at the Well and remained friends? Moreover they continued their crime sprees with their old compatriots, using their ill-gotten gains to outfit their friends with state-of-the-art gear to keep up with them as their lieutennants in their criminal gang?

    In this world is a brilliant and ambitious toymaker who managed to live beyond his years built a little empire for himself in his homeland in Austria, improving the lives of its citizens and becoming a national hero. Unable to sit back and watch these super-criminals unleash terror and chaos around the world, he rises up and builds steam and clockwork machines that can match them, outfitting brave souls willing to stand up to the menace of the Cole gang, and in honor of his goal he names himself their Nemesis!

    While slowing them down and preventing a number of henious crimes from taking place, he is still unable to stop them alone. Over time, Even as their gang grows and numbers and power, their Nemesis, too, comes across others who stand up to Cole and Richter's growing criminal empire. A powerful psychic who grew up idolizing the Nemesis, who can communicate with machines, and even animate small clockwork robots he has built himself! A mysterious masked woman who has knowledge beyond her years and her rag-tag group of European acrobats who fight with a flair and style never seen before! A Baron who discovered a lost civilization and learned the knowledge of an entire race of sorcerers, making him the most powerful wizard of this age!

    Together, with the help of the U.N. peacekeeping organization M.A.L.T.A., they now fight against the world-dominating menace of Cole and Richter's army of high-tech terrorists and metahumans that have joined their cause.

    I think it would be neat...
  10. They really need to make a mass-marketed, English version of, that program. I thought it was neat then, and I think it's neat now.

    I've swayed players to the game just introducing them to the character creator on my acct. Imagine how many folks would be drawn to the game after toying with the offline character creator?

    Never did figure out how to make an English version, though I'm not that tech-savvy...
  11. I haven't seen a post about this in quite a while, but I just finished watching The Black Panther and I have to say, I was impressed.

    I have also seen Iron Man:Extremis before, and look forward to seeing Astonishing X-Men: Gifted after having read the actual comics (Joss Whedon being the writer). I have to say what MARVEL is putting out in motion comics is top-knotch. The comic art is, of course, excellent, and they story writers have so far been fantastic.

    I really liked the re-telling of the Black Panther mythology in a more modern setting and the story was obviously a labor of love, and worth a look if you're wanting to get your superhero fix.

    I don't want to give much away, but I hope others have seen it and so the following by other posters may have some spoilers. In any event. I liked it, and the respect it paid to the source, while updating the connection to the character. I wouldn't mind seeing some of this material playing into the next season of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
  12. -Find the right server for you. Each server has different communities/personalities. Some are more populated/social than others, and some enjoy Role Playing, others PvP, etc. The easiest way right off the bat is to look at their respective forum threads to get ideas of the communities in each server.

    -Knowing global channels and ways people find teams on that server helps a lot! Again, every server is different, and often has a number of global channels that they use to find teams based on different interests. Find the ones that are right for you!

    -Important tip regarding global channels. They will carry over to every character you have, but will not automatically add them to your chat tab(s). You have to do this manually for each of your characters.

    -Don't ever let anyone 'tell' you how to build your character. Listening to advice from experiened players is great though, there's always better ways to do things, or consider things you hadn't thought of.

    -This game is very forgiving. Compared to other MMO's, there's little to lose by trying new things (except maybe a little debt, that in the end is just another badge ). Most AT/Power combinations can solo to varying degree and feel powerful. Also, don't be afraid to pick up a power or two 'just for fun' over functionality.

    -Don't get overwhelmed. I remember thinking how expansive everything seemed when I logged in the first time. I was afraid I'd miss something cool, or make a bad decision early on that would affect my character. This isn't a problem. There are respec's to change things you don't like about your character's build, and there are now ways to go back to a story you may have missed Hero and Villain side, so just relax and have enjoy the experience! However, Praetoria doesn't have the option to replay stories yet, so you have to be a little more careful there.

    -Most importantly- Have fun! Don't let yourself get caught up in a playstyle that you don't enjoy. I've seen players that have gotten very frustrated and chased themselves away from the game because they felt they 'had' to play a way they didn't like to 'get ahead' or for social acceptance. That's part of finding the right server and community for you. Take the time to find players that enjoy the same playstyle you do and have a blast!

    Hope these work!

    Lyc~ the helpful werewolf
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
    Level 50? I'd say they're level 52-54 AVs.
    Well... true, but I see that as the game system 'adjusting' *coughcheatingcough* to reflect how skilled/capable/prepared/smart they are that can't be represented with the games AI. The only one would actually be higher than 50 would be Statesman, since he's an Incarnate. None of the others (except maybe Ms. Liberty by birthright) even has the Alpha unlocked yet, according to canon anyway.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hy-Beams View Post
    Me too, exactly this. The problem is much more noticeable on my newer larger monitor so I think that does make a difference.
    Agreed. I didn't have a problem until I upgraded my monitors for bigger screen size and better resolution. Now I lose it when there's a lot of action and graphics going on. I've started pulling it down into the right hand corner where my powers tray is and that usually helps (unless it sometimes occasionally finds its way onto my other monitor ) but when seconds matter that's a pain. Some way of either making it more obvious would be great. I don't even want it to to be bigger because it would probably be annoying when I'm not in the middle of a massive fight with effects flying everywhere, but some way of 'pinging' it or highlighting it would be nice.
  15. Honestly, I'd say they're level 50 heroes (with some special advantages- like their signature powers). The game has restraints that comic writing doesn't, though with some creativity could probably be represented in-game. Some would be very unpopular though.

    Take your 'overwhelmed with Hellions outside the bank' scenario. Sure, they all con grey to the heroes, but their rules can, and in comics often do, include property damage, threat to civillians, time restraints, and the need for non-lethal capture. If it were fully represented in an in-game way it would looke something like:

    Prevent the Bank Robbery!
    10:00 <and counting>
    Take out the 2 Villains and their gangs inside
    Eliminate the Hellion distraction outside
    Avoid property damage (buildings and environment fully destructable)
    Avoid harming civillians (they're targetable as enemies as well, and will get caught in AoE's

    Plus there'd be restrictions on how much damage you can do to those Hellions to avoid 'killing' them vs. 'arresting'. If you do so many points past 0 to them, they're toast. Civillian and Hellion casualties take away points, as well as any property damage.

    Stuff we don't have in-game because it would be really frustrating to the majority of the player base, but could be written in comics because it's, frankly, expected.

    So yeah, level 50 heroes that just have really hard mission requirements.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggard4Life View Post
    Personally, I really hope they never do a CoH 2. I like this game and I don't want to see resources pulled from it to do a different game. And I don't see how splitting up our community would be a good thing.
    I will have to go with this (I haven't read past this so don't know if this has already played out).

    I'd rather see more put into this game than have the resources split/diverted to something that may not be as welcome. I wouldn't mind seeing City of * gradually progressing to something that would be a *2, as an expansion, like Going Rogue did, but actually making a seperatate game? I wouldn't go for it, and I could safely say neither would most of the folks in my SG. I had a hell of a time getting them and talking some of them through the switch to the new updater, much less the headache it would take to try and get them to upgrade to a new game altogether.

    Yes a lot of us are older and not that tech savvy. I can say for myself that while I'd grasp the concept of a new game, I really doubt I'd go for it. I, and most of my SG, have put a lot into this game and wouldn't be keen on making new characters in that new world. Better, I would think, to expand and embellish on a world folks are already invested in.

    That's my 2 cents anyway.

    Lyc~ the "get off my lawn" werewolf
  17. C. for the most part. My Bots/Dark MM has Shadowfall and the Freebird proc in Hover which gets me through just about all but the roaming seers. I dismiss my pets during that phase of the run, scout out and target the crates or canisters depending on what team I'm on, and then use my Debuffs and single shot power to help take it out with the team. I also toss my heals when needed and have Leadership buffs going too, to help the team while they're attacking the objects, so I definitely can say I don't feel useless during this stretch.

    I generally start to move on just before they're finished to reduce any aggro I may get and let my stealth kick back in again. I'll admit, it's not the most satisfying play, but the most useful function I have felt I can fulfil during that part. It helps if I think of my teammates as his army of minions doing his bidding.

    What? He's a megalomaniacal supergenius. It works for him.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
    Let me rephrase.

    A Loyalist to me, stays in Praetoria and remains Loyal to Praetorian Earth. Not take up a mantle of Villain or Hero and travel to Primal Earth. I found that annoying. My opinion.
    And I agree with this too. I have a handfull of characters stuck in their 20's waiting for more stuff to do in Praetoria. They were created with following the Praetorian storyline in mind and I really don't care about leveling them up 'til I can get to 50 as a member of the Resistance or Loyalists. These characters have no 'interest' in going to Primal Earth.

    At least that gives me time to work on my 50's in the meantime and I don't feel any pressure to play them and level them up
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T-man View Post
    I tend to solo a good bit, and that's when I really get into the story. When I'm teaming it's like: hurry up and get to mish! lol
    I really enjoy the stories though. Good stuff...
    I'm in this boat for the most part. I usually follow up a new TF with a readthrough on it from the wiki to catch anything I may have missed, but I won't hold up anyone during the game to read every bit of text. Nor do I get upset at inconsistancies or wierd 'deus ex machina' explanations (anyone who reads comics knows they're to be expected- it could be argued the Dev's do it to stay true to the medium they're imitating with their game )

    I don't play games for the sake of playing games. If the story/genre/feel doesn't appeal to me, I don't care how good it plays- I'm not interested. Conversely, I can tolerate a certain level of 'meh' if the story/genre/feel is something I like.

    I picked up this game because of the world and genre. I continue to play it because of the quality of the game therein, and the friends I've made in it. I only play one other MMO because it's basically free and gives me my sword-n-sorcery fix every once in a while.

    I don't begrudge players who don't care about story, but there's a part of me that can't understand why they bother playing if they don't; unless their desire is to just play a superhero, I can understand that. It's the people who play games to play games without regard to story or genre that I can't wrap my head around. I don't have any problems with them... I just don't get them.
  20. I think the difference is in how they were discovered, and by whom. In that grim future, Jim exposed his powers in public, which brought them to the attention of a different branch of the govt. than the ones that approached them at the season finale.

    I'm betting the company was being watched/investigated by the branch that approached them in the season finale. This branch had a clue as to what was going on, but no evidence or confirmation of what exactly was happening. They got that proof with them breaking into the facility (remember there were lots of shots of them on camera... we were just led to assume it was all the building's security).

    So the govt., knowing that this company is into "Crey level" naughtiness, sees this family fighting against them; a quick background check into who they are, and a trip to their house to say "Hey, we know they're up to some bad stuff, and you have the power to help us get them..."

    They were approached differently because of how it played out.

    As for Dr. King. He knows how this stuff works better than they do. Stephanie may have had more powers than she knew about for a short time and just never tried to use them, or perhaps it was the instability of Dr. King's own treatments that allowed the other one to have wild side effects. Either way I was letting that one slide; it was the boss fight of the end-of-season after all.

    Also, Stephanie stabilized Joshua's condition before giving him the cure, or at least I seem to recall something to that effect being discussed, and she probably gave Dr. King a much higher doseage than she did Joshua.
  21. I really have enjoyed the series and would hate to see it get cancelled when it looks like it's finally getting its legs ready for a big leap in direction.

    It doesn't take itself too seriously too often, which was really nice. I think it helped folks get into the characters over the plot so that when the serious stuff did happen folks didn't balk at the implausability of some of it (doing comic book/super hero stuff in a live action show is hard to pull off without making it 'hokey'- so they ran with it a bit). I was more invested in the characters than their powers, which they have been growing into nicely (not just in use, but in acceptance and their responsibilities with them).

    I think it's what Heroes should have been, or something like it anyway.

    And yeah it's built up to a great finale!
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post
    I didn't mean he convinced Requiem to work undercover, I meant that he managed to place Requiem into that position...and was able to keep people thinking that it was all legit, for decades.
    Yaknow, I completely forgot about how the Path of the Dark tied into it all! My brain was thinking in terms of geopolitical connections with the Axis and the 5th/Council. Again, though, the power falls to Italy with the Nictus and its ties to ancient Rome. In fact, I'm now curious how much The Path of the Dark influenced the events that led to WWII.

    Thinking about this, how much history would have changed if The Center didn't keep whatever sway he has over Arakhn? In that respect he has prevented an invasion that would have devastated the world amidst the chaos of WWII. Granted, it benefitted him too, but it's interesting to wonder what'll happen when he dies.

    Hm, I could see that as a prelude or sign of the "Coming Storm"...
  23. I'm really digging on the conversation about the 5th Column/Council. I thought it was great and deserved it's own thread, so I started one here...

    Now we can derail conversations over there instead of here
  24. I've been reading over in the "Is Issue 20 the most hyped issue ever?" thread and really got interested in the side conversation going on over there. It's really good info so I thought it should deserve its own thread. I had always thought that the 5th Column was an Axis organization comprised of German Nazis primarily along with their allies, the Italian Facists. However, the more I look at it, it seems the opposite is true.

    Compound that with the fact that Arachnos was also an Italian organization backing the Facists before Recluse took the reins (according to the novels)... Was Italy at the forefront of the Axis during WWII, instead of Germany?

    Perhaps in the "City of" universe, in a similar twist of fate that made Paragon City, Rhode Island that world's equivalent of our New York, something changed (perhaps the existance of Arachnos?) that made Italy the more prominent threat?

    I'd rather ignore the real-life politics/rumors about why/if it was changed in game, and discuss why/what changed in Primal Earth's history of WWII to make it different from ours, and that created and led to the 5th Column/Council today. There's a lot of retcons and adjustment to story so the full answer may be more complicated than it seems.

    By the way, who's the Dev in charge of Co* history/stories nowadays?
  25. If I'm remembering my Co* history (beyond the out of game politics/rumors) I always had the understanding that the Council was based off the Italian Facist allied arm of the 5th Column, and that they had their own little civil war and broke away in I-3, chasing off the loyalists to the German 5th into hiding until they returned again in more recent issues (started playing in I-2 so I remember them fighting in the streets, and the big changeover). That's why many (though not all) of the Council names sound more Italian (at least to me). Both were 'Axis' powers, so it's not unreasonable to assume the underground movement didn't involve both parties.

    The 5th and the Council are as much the Nazis and Facists that progenerated them than is say, Hydra and A.I.M. from the MARVEL universe (which was originally a Nazi subversive group from WWII- A.I.M. breaking off from Hydra years later; I'm not even getting into Leviathan and the other groups going on). They've adapted and changed. The ones that answered to their fallen leaders gained autonomy and started running things the way they saw it, and so on. In that respect I see them as no different. In fact, strikingly similar.

    As to the original topic, I don't think I-20 is horribly overhyped. I think a lot more information has been made public much earlier than in many other issues, giving folks more time to talk about it, so I could see why one might have that perception though.