Lost Ninja

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A thing every MM should learn:

Place your (stay) bots/undeads/ninjas/mercs around a bend, move to the mobs and pull them to you and wipe the floor with them, no more running into other mobs...

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Not a good idea against certain mobs, in that you risk being held, and thus unable to tell your minions to come and save your squishy behind. Also not possible in a lot of maps, due to open areas with multiple mobs and no corners to hide your minions behind.

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Don't know about you but I have no problem telling my pets what to do when held. Used it in Warburg several times to get an over confidant Controller

I find if I keep him at range he very seldom needs to use it, most mobs are dead before they get close enough for him to spray them.

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Or as you have siad you don't want the stalker to be nerfed... How, pray tell, can they change the stalker in line with your overall theme and not nerf it?
Care to answer?

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I have, several times.
The point is to not change ANYONE but to allow toons to buff, using temp powers, the holes in their build. We keep hearing about how you need a time with this and that. And we see it go quiet when I ask "what if there's no one suitable on". Siren's is hardly a bustling concourse of heroes, so what do you do? Should I just leave and wait for some ppl with the right powers to come on?
OR do the devs offer some useful temp powers? Ones a little less generic?
I suggested a shield that stops critical hits, and only available to squishies. The AS to death would still be possible but only if the target is injured first. I don't agree than an AS should NEVER kill.
So there you have it, a little imagination and you could probably come up with a slew of temp powers to ensure that any team, regardless of composition could buff itself to put up a good fight with a team, regardless of THEIR composition.

I posted elsewhere that PvP could be really dull if you have "incompatable" ATs facing off to each other. Imagine, 2 scrappers and a tank facing 2 stalkers - no temp powers for the heroes since the villains control the zone (for the sake of this example).
So, not a perception power or hold between us. We can't see them coming and we can't stop them getting away. (Yes I realise yellow insps are useful but I have to go to IP to get insps so I have to be a little sparing with them).
The IR googles and web grenades DO make things better, considerably better, but they don't go far enough.
Every travel power *should* be represented by a temp power. I don't know why SS was excluded.
As I've said MANY times, most of the issues raised will slip into the ether is and when Siren's becomes busy, but until then I believe better temp powers are a good way of compensating.

And not a nerf in sight.

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I still fail to see from this example how this will solve anything, you specifically state in the post that temp powers are not available how then are we to buy them?

Further what the hell are two stalkers going to do about a tank and two scrappers. In a team we would walk all over the poor little stalkers!

What is more if these Temp powers are to be so powerful and all consuming what is to stop the stalkers using them too? So we get into a vicious circle where we have to have more than they do, they need more to prevent them being seen.

Using your above example, we hit this point: If the tank and scrappers are completely unable to work as a team, or to use their builds effectivly with out temp powers they get owned. If they can use temp powers to fill out poor builds then the stalkers get owned.... So the boot is on the other foot, the stalkers have no chance thus they will need to post long threads on the fact that temp powers are over powered and need nerfing. Becuase put it simply if I can see a stalker and am able to attack (nerf controllers) I will kill them very quickly!

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Bored with this thread and Innigo...

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SO bored you were compelled to post.

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You want everyone to have the same chance? But you want Stalkers chnaged so they have less of a chance?

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Clearly you missed the post where I said I didn't want ANYONE nerfed. That, in case you were wondering, includes stalkers.

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Then perhaps you should finish quoting the rest of my post!:
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Or as you have siad you don't want the stalker to be nerfed... How, pray tell, can they change the stalker in line with your overall theme and not nerf it?

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Care to answer?

Bored with this thread and Innigo...

You want everyone to have the same chance? But you want Stalkers chnaged so they have less of a chance? So how is that the same as a controller? Or any of the other ATs. At the moment the stalker has one chance, if it loses that then it'll disadvantaged against the other ATs.

Or as you have siad you don't want the stalker to be nerfed... How, pray tell, can they change the stalker in line with your overall them and not nerf it?

And while we're at it lets nerf all those other ATs, well not MMs they suck already, but the regens need to be nerfed they're almost as bad as tanks. And defenders get them nerfed, oh up their damage but decrease their defenses.... Oh why do I bother?

We know that once you have made your mind up you won't change your views, right or wrong you'll stand by them to the bitter end...

Whcih I have reached on this thread, the discussion is solving nothing. The reasoned debate is hitting a brick wall, or your head. Face it people Innigo is right and we're all wrong.

Abandon hope!

I have seen it used by both a stalker and a brute to some advantage, with three slots flight speed. It's not as good as pre-ED but still not awful. And with TP it's damn good.

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2. Not everyone wants to respec for casual PvPing.

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But if a casual PvPer expects to equal a commited PvPer who has respecced? Your ideas are basically remove any advantage that someone who likes PvP has over someone who doesn't care two hoots.

If a PvP zone normally has ten players and it then goes upto 12 players for an hour. That is the peak period, that has nothing to do with size or wether you think its a peak or mole hill.

Not really a PvPer with my MM. You don't say what you will be using as your travel power, other than SJ (assumed). Personally in my PvP build (done on the hero planner not in game) I took Fly/Hover (though I won't actually have fly till 41/44) plus Hasten/SS, Fitness pool (Hurdle, Health & Stamina) & Leadership (Assault/Tactics)

SS for speedy travel, I am Rob/Dark so also run Shadowfall for my Stealth. In PvP so far I have tried to remain inconspicuous, rather than relying on actual stealth powers. Afterall its my pets that are supposed to do the damage. Hover I use to remain near the pets but out of melee range. I did think about taking Concealment instead of Flight but I need a vertical travel power, so I'd have to drop hasten/SS which I'd rather not do.

Hover however does protect against knockback/down, and with three slots (flight speed) is not too slow for use while actually in combat.

I take Stamina quite late lvl28 I mainly need it for the lvl32 buff which eats end.

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Spend your endurance for shooting instead and you add a lot more dmg ...if you want toggles try Acrobatics and Stealth. Ok..Tactics can be slotted to give good acc bonuses so it might be useful for some ppl.

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But the whole point of an MM is that they are an instant team thus needing the advantage of Assault and Tactics, besides to make a big difference with Primary Attacks you would need to spend considerably more slots to get those power to a level where they're worth while.

For me it never comes down to which ATs I want in a team, nor the builds that go into each AT but the players playing those builds. Mainly because a good player can make a poor build or power combination shine whereas a poor player will make a perfect build play badly.

So I would never get the point where I would make a list purely based on ATs....

Well almost never:

Assuming a balanced fight ie Arena
2 Defenders
2 Scrappers
2 Tanks
1 Stalker
1 Something else (but not alreadsy mentioned)

Defenders, Buff/DeBuff
Scrappers, Pure damage
Tanks, holding agro
Stalker single target kills, same idea as a Boss killer in PvE in PvP the Stalker goes off to kill the enemy controller.

Assuming Open PvP ie Warburg
3/4 Scrappers/Tank/Stalker - Damage/Damage Mitigation/Agro Management
2 Controllers/Defenders - Buff/Debuff (also good as team leader as they should be able to watch battle field to check what the enemy is doing.)
2 Blaster/Corruptor/Dominators - Ranged Damage/Holds/Slows

However I very seldom try and work out which CoV AT role or powers is the same as the CoH ATs because while similar in powers the whole emphasis in CoH is team work while in CoV it isn't.

Three slots of flight speeds and it isn't so bad, but no-one (except a Kin/* def) would use it as the main travel power, when used with other powers its great, nice stable firing position, protects against knockdown and knockback.

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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.

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I disagree. Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters". Based on everything I've read and experienced it's the more inexperienced PvPer who form the staple diet of the stalker. Which is unfortunate, as someone's early experiences of PvP should not be a faceplant from an unseen foe, not if PvP is to gain popularity.
All just my opinion.

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Yet you would be quite happy if the enjoyment that the stalkers can have from being stalkers was removed?

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Ok... Idea:

Make blasters snipe power have a 1 hit kill option??

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ye ok good idea if it works the same way as stalkers in other words you need to line up the target in stelth mode then hit it without being seen if you are seen its interupted and you need to run l;ike stalkers

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Terrible idea, if the only thing that makes Stalkers hard is the fact they have to close to Melee range making PBAoEs useful knocking them out of hide, +perception doesn't work at the range of an unslotted Snipe. Meaning a Blaster would be able to one or two shot any squishy regardless of any defenses. And I would expect a high level energy blaster to be able to take a tank down with impunity. Build Up - Aim - Snipe (toggle drop) dead tank.

Ah I'm not talking about any other buff than the level 6 and the level 32 buffs. Robotics/Dark for me, and even with 3x RecRdx SOs slotted into upgarde (lvl32 buff) it takes way too long to buff the pets.

Depends on the slotting but Tactics is alone worth it weight, IMO. And I find that with a single END Rdx SO in each keeps the power consumption low enough to be forgotten.

I understand but don't know for certain that wirlwind from the Speed pool allows powers to be activated whilst moving, sure I read somewhere that you could even use snipe while moving...

Mind you by the time you hit 36 it is all begining to pain you, so much summoning and buffing just isn't fun

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I'm always amused by someone who thnks their opinion is so damned important that it's worth repeating over and over and over, and in your case, over again. We get it, we understand, we knew what it was several days ago and I promise, no one's forgotten. So rest easy, safe in the knowledge that your opinion is out there, on record, and plenty of people have read it. So please, relax, take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard

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Maybe you could read this and understand it too?

Then you say that specifics aren't important? Give over, how can we discuss the idea if you won't even say what is a good idea or not? If statesman had gone off to NCSoft cap in hand, 'I have this idea for a MMOG Called city of heroes, what do you think?' NCSoft would have said well we'd like some more details please. Why is it so hard for you to understand that? On top of which everytime anyone makes a suggestion for how it might work that doesn't support your own biased view that PvE builds and PvP builds are so different, you immediatly ask us how do we know it'll work that way?

Plus you still have the misguided and frankly ridiculous idea that someone with a PvP build is unable to do PvE content. I have no idea where this idea comes from, but its wrong. A pure PvPer is actually likely to be better at PvE than a pure PvEer because their build is optomised to be good at many things, thus a Blaster isn't just a damage it has what defence it can have, and knockbacks/stuns and all the other 2ndary powers that are useful if the person you're fighting changes tactics midway through a battle, which a PvEer won't ever have to cope with. And with ED the PvP builds don't lose so much because 6x slotting for DMG is a thing of the past.

So before you come accross as this poor little PvEer being ganged up up on by the PvPers, just stop and think. Your original idea has some merit, now tell us how YOU think it should work. Because that is all that we have to go on.

Personally and for the record based on the rather hazy idea that you keep trying to pound into us I am against the idea of having mobile base defences.

If you have to stop to activate Integration, then yes there is something wrong...

Even in my I5 build a Stalker with AS could hit me several times (AS once with a follow up) and I'd simply smile and kill him/her, only if my health is sub 50% do I worry about a Stalker. Or if I'm held/etc, but then anything has a good chance of killing me.

The point I was trying to express in a slightly humerous way is that if you say stalkers are too good in PvP then you must also nerf all the other builds/ATs that also are 'too good' in PvP. Apologies if humour isn't your thing.

Saying that one AT or specific build needs to be nerfed, or changed so that you can function without change is pointless, if there is no alternative and you have tried various strategies including changing your build and you are still no better for any chnages then sure call for a nerf. But to rant that your build is gimped or that someone elses is to powerful whilst not even considering any chnage is idiotic, something that someone of Shimmer's caliber is not normally know for.

There that better?

Hehehe replying to my own post

Actually just because this is aimed at the thread rather than a specific poster...

Right so we need to nerf Stalkers they are obviously overpowered in PvP. Now while we're at it can we nerf Controllers and Defenders, they're my own bugbear make my life a misery, make me miss more often, slow me down...

Oh and Blasters get rid of the toggle drops thats just a pain, even though I only have one, toggle I mean.

And Tanks way to much defense can't do enough damage to take one down. Nerf them please...

Hmm feel better for that.

/sarcasm

If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

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The problem you have is this. PvP was meant to be this huge new shiny thing for COH/COV. It was one of the main reasons I bought the second game. I like that kinda thing on WoW; having an enemy faction who you can engage with in combat and with insult throwing :P However, as has been stated before, if you go into PVP with certain builds, builds that would be perfectly reasonable if you're just playing the game normally, you can't expect to win. Surely, that's just not right?

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Not wanting to make assumptions and possibly you have played more WoW than me....

But [censored]? A Normal non-PvP build in WoW had no hope, when going into a pure PvP situation, even the much vaunted NE Rogue would come to a quick end going up against a squishy that knew what it was doing. Now sure I never got much beyond 30 but even I knew that a PvP build would own a PvE build. Hell thats why its called a PvP build, in fact thats why there are PvP builds in any game.

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Personally I've given up on PVP. Apparantly you need either one of two sets of things:

1.
- Stealth
- Invisibility
- Possible phase shift for max effect
- Teleport
- Lots of defense powers/toggles to avoid PBAoE

That way you can be cheap like ... well, just about every hero I "met" in Siren's Call during my little stint there which I won't be repeating. Pop up behind people, and do whatever it is you do. If they actually fight back TELEPORT AWAY and try again later. Possibly if they're engaging NPCs or another hero or villain, easy targets YAY!

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Well I happily enjoy PvP, lets see how do I score from your list:

Stealth - Nope
Invisibility - Nope
Possible phase shift for max effect - Nope
Teleport - Nope
Lots of defense powers/toggles to avoid PBAoE - Nope

0/5 for me guess I suck at PvP then.

But I don't, and while my build would be better if I could afford to slot my powers with extra ACC (still using an outdated PvE build) I do fine in PvP.

Provisionally then....

Friday @ 8pm GMT?

Or get repair from your primary pool.