Lost Ninja

Funny the way I read it was that we shouldn't expect a respec with I7, but they haven't made a decision yet. I certainly haven't read a specific post that categorically denies one being introduced with I7. For me with the proposed defense changes I would need one on my */rgn becasue the change will likely make MoG more useful.

Plus there will hopefully be a patch or change in the near future that will allow fifties to earn more respecs. Personally though I hope the 2nd anniversary gets one.

I get that too:
Interested:
1- Matakoshi (lvl 23 kat/regen)
2- River (lvl 50 kat/regen)
3- Afro Striker (lvl 22 ma/regen)
4- @Death_Badger (50 spines/regen or 46 dm/regen)
5- Lesse (lvl 38 ma/sr)
6- @Shift (either 50 dm/da or 23 kat/regen)
7- Lost Ninja (lvl 50 dm/regen) or Facilitator (lvl 27 bs/regen)
8- Ms. Freedom (50 Kat/Regen)

And pretty much any day is good for me, but don't like evenings, as I tend to go to bed really early. (6pm ish)

I like Synapse, haven't done Hess (have it open on both characters). Moonfire is good. Don't think I've done Citadel or Sister Psyche.

Might be fun to do this as a regular thing and do all of them as a group.

First one is a copy of the build you got from a friend, with the slotting sorted out. The 2nd is the build I would go for personally, if I were to take the powers you are wanting, so its basically a rehash of the first build. Your best bet is to get a respec sorted out and copy your character over onto test and test some different builds. That way you can have a look at the builds we have suggested and see which is most suited to your play style. Certainly what I would do if I could get a respec.

Nah I was querying Nightbringer's assertion that MA is more survivable, I don't think its true, except possibly in the end game lvl45+ etc. But as I haven't got an MA above 13/14 I have no way of knowing. Give me a big metal stick and I'll beat anything into submission.

I'm up for it, if there is space. Either Lost Ninja (lvl50 DM/Rgn) or Facilitator (lvl27 BS/Rgn). Rather not do Positron as it is a god awful grind which I hate.

Not as far as i know, no. (I could be wrong but thats less likely )

Three run speeds in SS, it will cap with two. (SOs) And the 2nd one is only partly used, no real need to but in the 2nd especially with the speed enhancing powers of SR. If you really want to dump extra slots in it you would be better off putting in End Rdx.

Bearing in mind I'm not a particular fan of SR: Above build reslotted as I would do it.)
01) --> Sting of the Wasp==> Acc(1) Dmg(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Rechg(46) EndRdx(50)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(5) DefBuf(7) EndRdx(7) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(43)
02) --> Focused Senses==> DefBuf(2) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(45)
04) --> Agile==> DefBuf(4) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(21)
06) --> Build Up==> Rechg(6) Rechg(11) Rechg(13)
08) --> Hasten==> Rechg(8) Rechg(13) Rechg(15)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(12) Rechg(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(17) EndRdx(46)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> The Lotus Drops==> Acc(18) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21) Rechg(31) EndRdx(31)
20) --> Quickness==> Run(20)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22) Heal(23) Heal(23)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24) EndMod(25) EndMod(25)
26) --> Soaring Dragon==> Acc(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Rechg(34) EndRdx(34)
28) --> Lucky==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(29) DefBuf(31)
30) --> Super Speed==> Run(30) EndRdx(48)
32) --> Golden Dragonfly==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Rechg(34) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Evasion==> DefBuf(35) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(36) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(40) EndRdx(46)
38) --> Elude==> DefBuf(38) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Dodge==> DefBuf(47) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48)
49) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(49) EndRdx(50) EndRdx(50)

And this one: (Dropping one or two powers and changing orders a bit.)

01) --> Sting of the Wasp==> Acc(1) Dmg(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Rechg(11) EndRdx(46)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(5) DefBuf(7) EndRdx(7) EndRdx(13) EndRdx(37)
02) --> Focused Senses==> DefBuf(2) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(43)
04) --> Agile==> DefBuf(4) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(21)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Hasten==> Rechg(8) Rechg(13) Rechg(15)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(12) Rechg(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(17) EndRdx(46)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(23) Heal(23)
18) --> The Lotus Drops==> Acc(18) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21) Rechg(31) EndRdx(31)
20) --> Quickness==> Run(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(25) EndMod(25)
24) --> Build Up==> Rechg(24) Rechg(48) Rechg(50)
26) --> Soaring Dragon==> Acc(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Rechg(34) EndRdx(34)
28) --> Lucky==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(29) DefBuf(31)
30) --> Stealth==> DefBuf(30) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(50) EndRdx(50)
32) --> Golden Dragonfly==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Rechg(34) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Evasion==> DefBuf(35) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(36) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(40) EndRdx(46)
38) --> Elude==> DefBuf(38) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Dodge==> DefBuf(47) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49)

Personally I would have gone for another attack early on, perhaps Divine Avalaunch (have Parry on my BS and its a god send). I find build up is very situational, and as easy to take late as early. 3x tohit buffs in Focused Accuracy are rougly equivilent to one ACC SO, so I wouldn't advise not having any accuracy in any atacks. You can do it that way but your are better always slotting at least one ACC (IMHO).

Anyway as I said not a big fan of SR or that knowlegeable so mainly left your slotting alone, you can safly ignore the levels of the slots, its just like that so I could work out the different levels etc.

Oh and I swapped stealth and SS round, if you are going to take stealth you may as well take it early, you already have a speed travel power, and the only benefit to taking SS as well as SJ is its stealth factor (again IMO) if you're going to take stealth at 49 anyway, taking it at 30 makes more sense.

Well I did screw up me post ED build.

But that was EKs fault I was in a rush to getting back to beating him up.

[ QUOTE ]
I would feel safer having disorientated him, slowed him, generally >censored< him before I took him on. Oh and focus chi-Eagles Claw, not only awsome damage, he's disorientated too!

[/ QUOTE ]
If he's dead then he doesn't need disorientating.

I'm not sure why MA is more survivable, and I haven't noticed this yet, though my highest MA would have been about 13/14. So it could be end game stuff. However having played with several lvl50 BS and seeing the sick amounts of damage they can do, I am inclined to think that both have their place.

Whack me into the reserves/2nd team list then. Haven't tried this since I4 so should be fun.

How about this, its a respec build as Krunch says, its also PvE only, 1x ACC in attacks and no Foccused Accuracy. Plus some of the powers are weird, why stick 2x slow 3x dmg in caltrops? Its a respec build that will have no real use when exemped for TFs and Trials.

Advice: Grab a good character building program, I use Sherk Silvers CoH_CoV Character Builder Set it to dynamic (Modes->Dynamic) select all the powers you want from primary, then same from 2ndary. Then pick from pools. Then rearrange to get them in the order you want/need them, make sure you have a travel power by about 16/18 (SR has quickness and some take that in conjunction with Hurdle etc), later than that can hurt especially if you do do a lot of exemping. Then change from dynamic to standard (Modes->Standard), and add slots. Doing it this way will allow you to see powers that for instance will be hard to slot at say level 12 but if you take at 18 it can be.

Other:
I've said this before, I'll say it again as it bears repeating; There are no bad builds.

Favorite Commbo:
Not sure on this one I love DM/Rgn but am getting more fond of BS/Rgn. DM has a great deal of tactics, an end recovery power and a health recovery power. A fear attack and an immobillize (ToF and MG) with AS as a pool power it has some very good combos, plus it has good damge which is not highly resisted. BS has some extremely heavy attacks, and with Rgn the end cost isn't too bad, at 27 I can certainly kill things with greater ease than my DM had at the same level, downsides would be the damage is resisted more by a greater range of mobs, and its got a slow attack chain. So difficult to decide.

Regen is nice because with only one toggle its a fire and forget kind of set, my BS only got stamina at 26 so I was begining to find a lack of end after a hard fought battle a problem but now its not too bad. The other powers Dull Pain and Reconstruction I use (or will use) a lot, IH is not my favorite power (never was TBH) but it'll be good for EBs and such.

Everything but Brawl makes you put the damn sword away, and running with the sword out looks damn stupid.

I love my BS

Put simply if you want to take a target down quickly go BS if you want to kick it about a bit first go MA. Personally prefer BS, currently at 27 with my BS/Rgn, so some of my attacks are still 1x ACC 2/3x DMG. Yet I can still take down +1 minions in two shots, and I'm not forever running after things I've just hit. Only things I have issues with are the damn robots, council mechmen and clockworks etc. Everything else so far has been easy. I have hasten but not AS (would like it but the redraw is a total pain).

Hover is good for a scrapper for one thing. When taking on GMs you can sometimes use it to stay above any of those high damage foot stomp moves. And also good for the mito clearance phase when doing hamidon, unless you have fly with plenty of end rdx.

I have it on my main along with AS and fly. Will probably drop it if I get another respec, but only becasue there are other powers I need more. Currently one slotted for speed.

PS is good and the breadth of the tools that come with it and can be got for it is amazing, which to my mind is its main problem, rather like MS is having with Office, getting down into the guts of something unless you're a pro is almost as hard work as actually doing anything.

I tried the Gimp before I tried PS, I needed to be able to edit the alpha channel directly. Both would let me do it, PS was easier to do it with.

However I still remain a loyal fan of PSP becasue it gives my the vast majority of things I need without the ten thousand things I don't, it doesn't cost the earth, last time I bought it it was IIRC £90 -staff discount . And I know it well, if I was ever to produce graphics professionally I would probably invest in a course of PS and work from that point, but until then PSP will do me.

Done DM/DA, not fun but first character and totally gimped.

DM/Regen, great fun good at most aspects but damage isn't awesome. However it has an end recovery power built in plus an extra heal.

Currently working a BS/Regen, very nice build at 27 still no Stamina but haven't really felt the need for it till very recently. The Damage is very good, possibly twice as fast as DM but more is resisted so robots are a nightmare. The animations are slow and a bit buggy as in the is a pause before you can do anything, Overall possibly my favorite scrapper so far. (Have tried all but spines up into mid teens.)

I would never say that regen is the best secondary, it is for me but certainly not for everyone.

Try typing /respec you may well have a free respec, depends on how long ago you created your character. But I would suggest saving it if you do. Or rerolling 13 is doable with a good team in a day or so, respecs are much harder to come by.

Good Cop

Hasten 1x DO - Down to 164s recharge at 13
Siphon Speed 1x DO (recharge) - Down to 24.19s recharge at 13

Bad Cop

Hasten 3x DO - Down to 146s recharge at 12
Siphon Speed 1x DO (recharge) - Down to 30.55s recharge at 12

Scores against an even level Madness Mage (white con). Can't wait till I have my SOs

2 Things to point out and the reason I posted both builds like I did. The two different characters I designed to play together, reason why GC has no transfusion becasue BC does. Same reason GC has gone down the attack route and BC hasn't.

Repel is of no value when I play either individually, but when I'm duoing I sometimes find that I have 5/6 mobs surrounding me, I need to knock these away or they out damage my heals, generally bad cop runs hers all the time as she uses less end, and I don't control her directly. (On follow) I have also found it very good against several harder mobs, both bosses and up. Frostfire went down to a level 7 defender with two attacks, mainly as after I had repeled him into a wall for a bit his head got stuck. The repel also kept his imps off me.

Anyway:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Bad Cop 2
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1) Acc(5) Heal(5) Heal(9) Heal(15) Rechg(29)
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(40) Dmg(42) Dmg(43)
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Rechg(9) Rechg(17) Rechg(19)
04) --> Repel==> EndRdx(4) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(37) KB_Dist(37)
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(6) Acc(7) Acc(7) Rechg(15) Rechg(17) Rechg(19)
08) --> Increase Density==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(33) DmgRes(39) Range(42)
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(11)
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(12) EndMod(13) EndMod(13) Range(43)
14) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx(14)
16) --> Assault==> EndRdx(16)
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(18)
20) --> Tenebrous Tentacles==> Acc(20) Acc(21) Dmg(21) Dmg(48) Dmg(48)
22) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) TH_Buf(23) TH_Buf(25) TH_Buf(25)
24) --> Hover==> Fly(24)
26) --> Transference==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Acc(27) EndMod(29) EndMod(34) EndMod(36)
28) --> Fly==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(31) Fly(31) Fly(31) Fly(36)
30) --> Gloom==> Acc(30) Acc(36) Dmg(43) Dmg(46) Dmg(50)
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(35) Acc(46) Rechg(46)
38) --> Blackstar==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40)
41) --> Dominate==> Acc(41) Acc(42) Hold(48) Range(50)
44) --> Mind Over Body==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(45)
47) --> Dark Pit==> Acc(47) DisDur(50)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49)

and:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Good Cop 2
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Energy Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(11) Rechg(17) Rechg(19)
01) --> Power Bolt==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(9) Dmg(37) Dmg(42)
02) --> Repel==> EndRdx(2) EndRdx(5) EndRdx(5) KB_Dist(29)
04) --> Power Blast==> Acc(4) Acc(9) Dmg(37) Dmg(43) Dmg(46)
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(6) Acc(7) Acc(7) Rechg(11) Rechg(17) Rechg(19)
08) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx(8)
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg(10) Rechg(15) Rechg(15)
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(12) EndMod(13) EndMod(13) Range(42)
14) --> Increase Density==> DmgRes(14) DmgRes(36) DmgRes(39) Range(42)
16) --> Assault==> EndRdx(16)
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(18)
20) --> Power Burst==> Acc(20) Acc(21) Dmg(21) Dmg(40)
22) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) TH_Buf(23) TH_Buf(25) TH_Buf(25)
24) --> Hover==> Fly(24)
26) --> Transference==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Rechg(27) Rechg(29) EndMod(33) EndMod(34)
28) --> Fly==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(31) Fly(31) Fly(31) Fly(36)
30) --> Energy Torrent==> Acc(30) Acc(36) Dmg(37) Dmg(43) Dmg(43)
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(35) Acc(46) Rechg(46)
38) --> Nova==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40)
41) --> Mass Hypnosis==> Acc(41) Sleep(45)
44) --> Mind Over Body==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(48)
47) --> Telekinesis==> EndRdx(47) EndRdx(48) EndRdx(48)
49) --> Explosive Blast==> Acc(49) Dmg(50) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)

Taking into account what I have read here, thanks for the tips. Now off to get some hard figures for recharges etc with herostats.

I have watched personally a Regen Scrapper Tank Hami. No videos or anything, I was there. :P

Me being me I had to try I lasted less than a fraction of a second.

Okay too many ACCs

Transfusion roughly speaking, will use hero stats tomorrow to get some decent figures, was getting a recharge of about 1 second. That is slotted with DOs 3x ACC 2x Heal. BC was not as well stacked as GC but both had speed boost and 2-3x siphon speed. Admitedly this was against -6s as I was testing concept more than anything. Oh man this rocks.

Siphon Speed I will probably keep the 3x ACC but the others wil probably be spent elsewhere. Siphon Speed has to hit 90% or better.

BC doesn't need anymore attacks, though I can change the epics. I can't really control both at the same time, if they both have the attacks, with out resorting to macros. Which are IIRC not really allowed. Even if I do use some form of macro system it will be to hit the rebuff at set intervals to keep up the insane speed levels.

Actually was playing with my level fifty, and bad cop. My level fifty has SS, BC was keeping up with her as a level 12 with just stacked Siphon speed. (Or the speed were so similar as to be difficult to judge.)

OMG I love this concept, its a pig to play, but by gum its fun.

And if anyone is worried about uberness, at this level I spend more time eating carpet than I do killing things, and unless I get the controls sorted out I will soon get to a point where I just don't have enough easily usable keys to keep going.

edit:

Opinions on the Psykic Mastery Epic? I have seen telekinesis in action and like it. With three end red will I be okay?

Bit of a story to the question so I hope you'll bear with me on this. I have been playing two different kinetic defenders the first lets call her Good Cop is mainly an offender and is specced so far (lvl13) for offense and buffs so no healing. The other and we could call her Bad Cop is mainly a defensive defender, she has a heal, but other wise is similarly specced to Good Cop. The two play as a team 80% of the time and the builds are supposed to reflect this. Now Good Cop is level 13 and although I am enjoying playing with her immensly I want to make sure I can get the most from her and bad.

Below are the two planned builds, starting with Good's. Any corrections or ideas?

Name: Good Cop 2
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Energy Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Siphon Power==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
01) --> Power Bolt==> Acc x2 Dmg x3
02) --> Repel==> EndRdx x3 KB_Dist x1
04) --> Power Blast==> Acc x2 Dmg x3
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
08) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx x1
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg x3
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod x3
14) --> Increase Density==> EndRdx x1
16) --> Assault==> EndRdx x1
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump x1
20) --> Power Burst==> Acc x2 Dmg x2
22) --> Tactics==> EndRdx x2 TH_Buf x3
24) --> Hover==> Fly x1
26) --> Transference==> Acc x3 EndMod x3
28) --> Fly==> EndRdx x2 Fly x3
30) --> Energy Torrent==> Acc x2 Dmg x2
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
35) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc x2 Rechg x1
38) --> Nova==> Acc x3 Dmg x3
41) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg x3
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes x3 EndRdx x1
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc x2 Dmg x2
49) --> Explosive Blast==> Acc x2 Dmg x2

Siphon Power/Speed/Transferance/Fulcrum Shift, 3x ACC to make sure that they hit 100% or as close as I can get it. With three slotted tactics is that overkill? Do I have an accuracy cap?

Repel is in both builds as I like the idea of keeping those ugly melee characters away from my weak body.

Speed Boost is 3x end mod (teaming with another kinetic theoretically I can go with out Fitness/Stamina, will this work?

Assuming that everything works as planned each character will at any one time have at least one Sppeed enhancing power (Speed Boost) is Hasten overkill? Bear in mind that on top of Speed Boost I can stack siphon speed, I'm reckoning I can stack three to four Siphon Speeds with Speed Boost.

This build is for Bad Cop:

Name: Bad Cop 2
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc x3 Heal x3
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc x2 Dmg x1
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
04) --> Repel==> EndRdx x3 KB_Dist x1
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
08) --> Increase Density==> EndRdx x1
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg x3
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod x3
14) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx x1
16) --> Assault==> EndRdx x1
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump x1
20) --> Tenebrous Tentacles==> Acc x2 Dmg x1
22) --> Tactics==> EndRdx x2 TH_Buf x3
24) --> Hover==> Fly x1
26) --> Transference==> Acc x3 EndMod x3
28) --> Fly==> EndRdx x2 Fly x3
30) --> Gloom==> Acc x2 Dmg x2
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc x3 Rechg x3
35) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc x2 Rechg x1
38) --> Blackstar==> Acc x3 Dmg x3
41) --> Dark Consumption==> Acc x2 Rechg x3 EndMod x1
44) --> Dark Embrace==> DmgRes x3 EndRdx x1
47) --> Soul Drain==> Acc x2 Rechg x3 TH_Buf x1
49) --> Super Speed==> Run x1

Transfusion/Siphon Power/Speed/transferance again fully slotted for accuracy, and again will be running with full tactics. Overkill?

Less attacks mainly as Bad Cop is a support character not a frontline character, will she be well enough specced to support Good Cop effectivly?

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

This still on?

Nearly asked if this was on defiant... DOH!

If there is a spot or a 2nd team I have a Kin/Dark (lvl10) or Kin/Nrg (lvl11) who would both like a shot. And I too will hang around positron at the required time, begging... um waiting for the go