Lost Ninja
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Posts
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Quote:Because you could PL to 50 with an easy combination eg FA/SS Brute, or Claws/Electric (c'mon 6-8hrs to 50) and then Respec to something else. Which would trivialise much of the content.Originally Posted by quickfire
Ok, but I would have to ask as to what the harm would be in, say, being able to change the secondary power set at least.
I guess I should be more clear. You are not allowed to change your original Archetype and I am fine with that. What I feel the game should allow (at least once) is the choice to change your powerset choices you were given when you created your character.
I have one character for instance that is Scrapper (which I do not need to change, or see any reason to do so), the powerset choices are Martial Arts and Regeneration, which I do not find very entertaining. Changing to Dark armor or Super reflexes, IMO, are much more fun combinations. But there is no way to do that.
I don't see how changing the powersets you choose at character creation, at least once in the life of the character, would present balance issues.
I can see, however, how open choice may present a problem in that respect. -
Quote:Bullet point list you say?Originally Posted by Captiosus
I knew someone was going to make that argument. Incarnate access is a perk, yes - it's a core part of the game and SHOULD be a perk for VIPs only. The same is true about First Ward because all of Praetoria is VIP only (for now), so First Ward isn't going to be any different.
As for character slots, that is a non argument because it goes right back to value. If you take the amount of slots I can have open right now should I go to Premium Free, I can have every single one of my 50s unlocked AND have room to spare. And they're purchasable with points, so if I wanted more, I could buy more. Just because I have 160 slots doesn't mean it is a value unless I'm using a majority of those 160 slots.
None of this negates the fact that we're only getting a fraction of the points a freemium spending the same amount gets and then being told we have to pay out of that allotment, or pay extra, for what should be core additions to the game. One extra token per year doesn't cut it. Unfettered access to character slots we may or may not use doesn't cut it.
Do what I did: Sit down and make a bullet point list of everything VIPs get versus everything Premium Free and Standard Free gets, then compare the costs given various situations. You'll find out that VIPs, despite what looks like great "benefits" continually get the shorter end of the stick when it comes to overall value, not just in terms of points allotted vs. points paid, unless you're in the 1 or 2% who have the highest possible veteran rewards and are overloaded with characters.
How about: (Based on beta prices & assuming this is a new account so no vet reward unlocks.)
- Incarnate Access (unavailable to non-VIP)
- Forum access (Unavailable to non-VIP (that is full access))
- Signature Arcs @400pt/month
- AE Access @400pt/month
- Inventions Access @200pt/month
- Auction House Access @200pt/month
- Free Server transfer/month @800pts
- 400pts/month
- Controller, Mastermind, HEAT & VEAT Archetypes unlocked 1000 & 800 pts respectively
So a premium can get all that for $15/month?
You're having a laugh right?
Of course that doesn't take into account that you may have unlocked some or all of that already through Vet rewards and or booster packs/expansions. So of course for some dropping to premium is a good deal. For most though it won't be.
To add Praetoria is not VIP only, it is automatically unlocked for VIPs as part of the subscription. Premium users can only access it if they have bought Going Rogue or paid points for the unlock.Quote:Praetoria is VIP only (for now), so First Ward isn't going to be any different. -
Not had time to read the thread (do that later), but if you have an up to date Beta client will there be a way to copy/change that to turn it into a live client. I hate the idea of re-downloading a huge amount of data that I functionally have already. :/
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Steaksman didn't come from Bovine Earth, there is no cow level.
Sorry if someone else said it.
Maybe Stakesman from Twilight earth? -
It's interesting, I don't like red side because none of my characters are 'evil' nor are they somebody else's fall guy (or for me gal) or stooge which is how CoV works. I never really disliked the looks, indeed some areas especially Nerva and Sharks Head are my favorite working zones (the shards are my faveorite zones but... well nothing to see there).
Yet I dislike the Atlas revamp because I feel it makes AP look too much like Praetoria. So I can sort of see now why people prefer the looks of CoV.
Aside from the above mentioned reason, I play CoH because having got a 50 villain I'll never do the whole thing again unless the rogue ideal is properly developed. I don't mind doing missions there, I'll even work for contacts there but I'm not a villain.
Oh yeah and Grandville is the worst zone in the game (IMO) vertical? Don't make me laugh, its juts got a big tower in the middle which aside from a couple of contacts and eye candy is no more interesting than any of the huge structures in the game. Lie IP on it's end (let all the water run out and kill the squid) then call that a vertical zone, then it might be worth something.
By which I was envisioning something like the Citadel in HL2 rather than a stupid looking tower held up by oversized guy lines. -
Freedom? Yes thanks.
My own take or Feedback on the issue:
I have three accounts.
The first I have subbed fairly regularly since day 1 of the EU servers and prior to that during EU beta (join date on the forums matches roughly my join date to the game. After i21 is launched this account will remain subbed when I'm actively playing the game. It has some boosters (but not all) and about 45 months of play-time.
The second is my main alt account, created with the boxed copy of the game I ordered prior to the EU launch (my main account got created with an online purchase because the box wasn't going to arrive in time), this account is less often subscribed but has still managed 33 months. After i21 it will mostly be switched to premium, with odd bouts of VIP to accrue points to assist with unlocking some of the Permanent unlocks (Ninja Run, extra enhancement trays etc).
Account number 3, was created just for multi-boxing and has the least play time (9 months iirc) this account will also slip to premium (not actually subbed recently) and I'll most likely buy points for it periodically.
Overall the amount of money I spend to maintain my enjoyment levels in the game will go down. From around £18/month to around £11/month with greater access to characters I cannot afford to play with otherwise.
The only bad point I see is the fact that free players cannot create teams. If I ever get the hardware to run an 8 box setup I'd have to turn all 8 accounts into premiums, which would be a pain... Though in all honesty if I could afford 7 more boxes (and the power/connection/etc to go with it) I could afford more VIP accounts too.
tl:dr I like the idea of freedom, don't see any major downsides for premium players, don't see any issues for VIPs. Frees get shafted...
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Quote:Lets see:Originally Posted by Santorican
That's exactly what I mean. Rather than working for something the developers are giving impatient players a means to obtain something a lot of people have worked for. Instead of saying STFU and work for it they're enabling a generation of "instant gratification-ers."
Old way, pay money earn rewards.
New way, pay money earn rewards.
Difference?
Oh and just a further point. How is doing nothing but paying your subs work?
Damn another point: How is other people paying money for something you don't have shafting you? Can the same not be said for people who have booster packs or costumes you don't have? -
Quote:I will add to what I said before then. I loved the books (still do) though much preferred The Hobbit to the actual Lord of the Rings. (Still have a map companion for LotR which is even better... love maps).Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So, this is the thread we discuss this stuff in now?
Okay, after pouring through all of the posts, empirical data, opinions, feedback, theories, debates, other options...
I have one important bit of personal feedback to offer:
This made my insides cringe.
(I'm not really harping on you Lost Ninja, haha... I can understand how this happens, but I just find it so odd to think of the Lord Of The Rings saga as films first, haha... it makes my heart shed tears!) 
However while LotRO is aimed at fans of the books and films what I read while I was thinking about having a go lead me to think that more credence is given to the films than the books. That is while it isn't based solely on the films more is film like than book like.
And for the same reason I won't dabble in the various attempts at Pern MMOs I won't dabble in Middle Earth MMOs. A good RPG set in either whether that be computer based or some other format I would love to play. Or even a game set there that doesn't use the settings/characters from the books I love, I'd try.
Also WoW has enough Legololz (et al) to last me a life time, I don't need to play the game where they're twenty a penny. :/ -
Quote:My guesses are based on how I expect any business to operate, Manoa's seem to be based on something else.Originally Posted by Obsidius
Thanks for harping on Manoa for guessing on what NCSoft's goals are, and then guessing on what NCSoft's goals are. Brilliant! It's the battle of guesswork and empirical data!
If NCSoft have got this far it is likely that they have a functional marketing department that knows how to work out who buys what and why. It is unlikely that the whole i21 is a sudden decision that Positron made one morning on the way to work. The fact that Paragon Studios have been working on the software side of the new model for over a year probably means the actual decision for moving to a MTX lead payment system is quite a bit older than that.
Yet an awful lot of the posts in this thread (and the linked Blog) and many other threads imply that the whole idea is a waste of time and that it cannot work unless VIP players get everything for free (out of the box using points to buy shinies), and that returning players will only re-sub/buy points if they get the entire game for nothing.
Which I respectfully maintain is bollocks.
But yes I'm guessing just as much as everyone else. -
Quote:It's one of the unwritten rules of being an evil overlord not to kill off your able assistants it doesn't engender loyalty nor does it do your ongoing training programs any good.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I was thinking more of real Star Wars rather than fake Star Wars - Tyrant basically tells Duray that he was a clumsy as he was stupid, and that he's failed him for the last time, then kills him in fornt of his own men - I guess that's the standard way to deal with problems in an evil empire
Cole has the benefit of resurrecting his underlings so he has the best of both worlds. He can kill off people who annoy him but also keep them alive so they can learn from their mistakes.
I see the scene in the story on three levels. First and foremost it sets the scene for us, secondly it reinforces his moral credibility within his own power structure but thirdly it reinforces with the future Durays that Cole is the boss. -
Quote:It's aimed at everyone; returning players, new players and current subscribers.Originally Posted by Manoa
Then who is the system aimed at?
Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
It certainly isn't aimed at VIP players.Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
they do so because they think they can generate more revenue by adding theAnd why does that mean they aren't aiming at VIP players?Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
microtransaction element than what they're currently achieving with their original 100% subscription.
Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
And I suspect it's...And I suspect you cannot back this up with any facts.Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
To me, the primary demographic that this new model is targeted at is former subscribers.
Why suddenly will people who previously left the game suddenly want to return? And to make this clear before any micro transaction payment can be extracted they have to come back to the game. Do you have evidence of these huge numbers of returning players desperate to get back into the game (providing of course they don't have to pay)?
I know quite a number of people who have quit the game I suspect everyone does, some left because they became bored (I did several times), some left due to game changing features. MA, ED, CoV, PvP & Ultra... ect. Some will of course have left because they couldn't afford to play. But still I wonder how many have been sitting at home in the interim waiting to play CoH just as soon as it became free to play.
Of the people I personally know (not a huge amount) most aren't going to come back, some have moved on to other games (WoW notably), some have moved on in life - mostly starting college or families and haven't the time. Some have even stopped gaming entirely or just on the PC.[/quote]
So the people who have access to the real marketing data have read it wrong entirely and you who don't even work in the marketing department at NCSoft can prove it because you saw a panel at PAX?Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
This is a move to generate more revenue (whether microtrans or subscription reups) from this particular demographic. This is the player demographic who is far more likely to add money into the game (compared to their new F2P counterparts)...but you have to recognize the reasons theyre coming back and the stuff they would be interested in purchasing. If incentivized properly, theyll likely willing to purchase new content and/or look at a subscription to try out the new shinys. But they know what it feels like to have a full game experience and not going to be incentivized to pay money for old content or to get the game working as they remember it.
Always assuming that all they want to do when playing is rub their shinies...Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
A successful F2P model breaks down the barriers of entry and imbeds the pay-for stuff later into the play experience (you know, after the player is hooked and wants more). The current model doesnt do a very good job of this for returning players because it breaks the free illusion upon character creation/selection by having their IOs greyed out.
The current model is not brilliant. DDO for instance IMO is better in many ways. But so much of the DDO content is locked behind the payment barrier that as a premium (and I was for several months) it was all but impossible to get a group going for premium content because most of the players wanted to play free content over and over and over again.
I never played LotRO because I'm not a huge fan of the films, but I understand it runs with a similar subscription model.
So you have a choice really. Either the devs can provide a fully realised combat system for everyone but gate the content. Or they can gate the playing system and provide the content. And I know if I try a game out I will happily pay for more things to do eg a new class, but if I have to buy all the content I stop playing. Hence why I'm back in CoH having given up on my monk (DDO) who I had fun on but no content to do. -
Quote:Nearly...Originally Posted by Manoa
No, the point is to generate revenue from new players and returning players. It doesn't matter whether that revenue comes from subscriptions or microtransactions. The game already had free trials and free reactivation weekends to get folks to feel the "undying, STRONG urge to re-sub or sub for the first time." If these were doing the trick, they wouldn't be adding a F2P/microtransaction element.
The point of Freedom (and the game as a whole) is to generate revenue. Freedom ultimately is the freedom for the devs to charge for things that prior to this point they didn't charge for in any systematic way. As such yes of course they want new players to subscribe and for returning players to subscribe. But ultimately they want people to spend money. Providing a hybrid payment system means that there is a price point for everyone. You can spend as much or as little as you want and still have some access.
Actually that is the opposite of what you said in the paragraph above. You want returning players to able to access all they hadd access to before they left but also they don't need access to the newest stuff.Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
I personally am not arguing for returning free players to have the same exact experience as a VIP player. There should be something pay-for that returning free players should be chasing after.
And returning players don't have the expectation to have everything the VIPers do. They don't expect access to the new content, they don't expect access to the incarnate stuff, etc. That's all new stuff and they know they're not going to get it without paying for it.
Perhaps instead of just adding a returning players model (option #4 IIRC) (see her blog for more info). We ought to add a model for players who haven't been away long. And maybe one for those who have been away since before inventions who won't need IOs even though they're returning players.
Prior to freedom all they could expect as returning players was a monthly sub. I suspect any who left for monetary reasons will be glad to have access to their characters with or without "loot 'n all". Those that left for other reasons (some I know who left due to MA 'ruining' the game won't be any more likely to return on a free model than on any other.Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
What returning free players expect (what they view as) a fully functioning game and access to their characters (loot 'n all). It's all old content...why shouldn't they have access to it if they've invested something into the game?
I'll bet they won't... But then what NCSoft has to do is base it's decisions on fact not on bets. You seem to think that this whole thing is hastily put together and without studying either the overall MMO market or their own player base. In any business when you are trying to implement something as wide ranging and potentially game (pun unintended) changing as this you do so with eyes wide open with all your facts to hand.Quote:Originally Posted by Manoa
Keep the returning free players chasing after the new shinies instead of forcing them to fill in the gaps in their old play experience, I'll bet you'll be able to capture more revenue from this segment of the playerbase. -
1)I'd add a message prompt on first login of all premium accounts detailing changes from VIP to premium including changing from an Invention Based build, to hi-light a)That the invention system need to be purchased, b)But that once the user has purchased the system they gain immediate access to all previously slotted IOs. c)That a 2nd build is available to allow resumption of gaming ability without deleting existing IOs.
2)Allow free players to create teams, that is the biggest hurdle to getting free players to convert from free to premium or VIP. They need to be abl;e to try the MMO aspects of the game without needing VIP/Premium players with them. -
If you don't know, good I wouldn't want to potentially ruin your lives. If you do... I feel for you...
Good thing I couldn't get to PAX both NCSoft and Mojang were there and I'd have risked injury just being in the same building. :/ -
Just so you know if you release i21 on the same day or even the same week as the Minecraft 1.8 update I will been torn in two... literally. So please don't!
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Quote:With the current exchange rate 1 empyrean is 1 astral. :/Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
How about 1 Empyrean Merit?
As for female barbarian outfit is a store bought item because then I can show my lack of interest in barbarian slave girl outfits (what it looks like to me) by not paying for it. :/
Sad.
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It should also be said that while in games like WoW, DDO or GW having more than a couple of even con enemies attacking you at once can be difficult especially at lower levels. In CoH especially later on in the game you will be facing more mobs that you can control, so facing mobs that would be a challenge in WoW et al, will not be a challenge here.
I faced the reverse of the issue when leaving CoH and finding that no you cannot herd up entire areas to nuke until you significantly out level that content. And something I had to explain to a friend who had only ever played WoW as to why I was levelling nearly three times as fast even though he played more often, he only faced even/+1 con mobs solo. I was facing +1/x4...
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Could try TweakCoH (Google it sorry), it has a font tab which allows you to override in game fonts (much like the map packs iirc), that might help. Otherwise no idea sorry.
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Quote:I wasn't disappointed...Originally Posted by Lost Ninja
Something very good or something very bad... Sadly with my experience of NCSoft I'd err in the direction of bad... :/
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Being able to see notes on friends/ignored would be useful. But still be able to make/keep notes on non-friends is more useful.
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And if you want in on the current i21 Beta you need access to Beta servers not training room. And as far as I can tell you do need to download a whole new client. If nothing else the .pigg files are all broken up into smaller chunks than previously.
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Current chat settings file, anyone know how it is structured?
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Probably been said before but my own take on Keyes is an Incarnated character can run it without too many issues, I tried it with a Unlocked but not slotted alpha on a character with no self heal and it was a nightmare. My main Controller with self heal and one level boost was fine... easy even.
However totally besides the ease or style of the trial my own take on the experience is the devs looked at other trials in other games (especially ICC in WoW) and just grabbed boss abilities and stuck them together. It feels like they spent little time designing it. :/
Beyond that IMO Risk != Reward. While is isn't exactly harder than the other two, because each section is on a quite strict timer you can't discuss tactics or respond to changing situations (and having team members d/c can change how well you do) with as much ease as the other two. Which IMO makes the experience feel much harder. Boost the rewards even if only by a small amount would encourage people to play it more than by making it easier. -
Quote:Ah yeah knew about that tab and looked at it, it didn't change when I removed the extra hami-o, so I didn't think it changed with slotting change at all. (Didn't switch power on/off to test my assumption either.)Originally Posted by Roderick
Yes it does. Under Totals, on the Status tab, Defense Debuff Resistance is the top item under Debuff Resistance.
Correct. Most Defense Debuff Resistance is non-enhanceable. To my knowledge, only Super Reflexes and Shield Defense have enhanceable DDR, and not all of the DDR in Shields is enhanceable.
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Quote:Something very good or something very bad... Sadly with my experience of NCSoft I'd err in the direction of bad... :/Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I'd save that for tomorrow
You never know what's going to happen on day one of open beta.