LordXenite
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:You know... for several years we've been told that the Kheldian inherent powers were not going to affect the forms (game-design concepts/game-engine), and yet that was done. We were told power-customization (at least color wise) was too complex, and that's coming too. So, you're basing your nay-saying on what exactly? game-design theory, or game-engine limitations?Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
No offence, but you cannot have it both ways even in Kheldian happy happy land.
Either you want the power to remain unchanged except for making it AOE (in which case well slotted it WILL beat Empathy)...OR
You want the Power to be AOE and have the amount of heal reduced to compensate for it being an AOE, in which case it is below empathy's ability, but also now heals the PB for less than it used to.
If there is a third choice I'm all ears. -
Quote:Here's hoping...Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
maybe this one won't make it to live.
Fat chance!Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
...maybe they'll get the animation bug fixed from two issues ago, right?
Great minds and all that...Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
DOUBLE EDIT: What, LX? We edit at the same time? LOL
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Quote:Haven't seen it in the patch notes, just found the issue in the Test Server and verified it again on Live. Up-shifting roots.Originally Posted by Irresponsible
This is not in the patch notes, correct? Could be a bug?
The thing is though, I think that just like last time our form-shifting got affected yet again because of animations fixes.
EDIT :: Unlike last time, BaB actually said it may be a bug.. so YAY!
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Well, I haven't decided yet if it's DOOM-worthy, probably not, but form shifting now roots us.
If you're running forward in Dwarf for example and shifting to Nova, you'd be rooted for a moment right as you drop from Dwarf to Human and shift from Human to Nova.
If you activate Superspeed for example and start running while shifting to Dwarf, you'd instantly stop running until you're fully shifted to Dwarf!
There goes some of my favorite tactics!
BAD DEVS! 
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Quote:Woah! Dude! Where did you get that I wanted the AoE heal to be higher than an Emp's AoE heal?!Originally Posted by TundraCommando
No you didn't, but that's probably what would happen when the devs were finished. I mean, a possible 560-ish AoE heal. If I can recall, that's higher than an Emp's AoE (correct me if I'm wrong).
I thought I specifically said it was supposed to be something that's less than what Controllers get from Radiation Emission or Kinetics, and seeing as Kinetics is quite high as it is, I'd settle for something less than what Controllers get from their Radiation Emission AoE heal.
If that's the impression I gave you, no wonder some people thought I wanted to turn PB's into Defenders...
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Quote:Uhh.. no, did I say that?! I support no nerfs to Reform Essence and never would!Originally Posted by TundraCommando
Well sure it would be more helpful I suppose, although it would make the user much more vulnerable to death (if using solely for the team) since they would lose the ability to heal themselves reliably. I imagine the healing power of Reform Essence would be nerfed a bit as well to make up for the AoE component if it did get implemented.
If all that comes out of this thread is +Res is added to every PB power the way I described it, I'd be ecstatic! Everything else is sugarcoating...
Yeah, only problem is getting a full team of Kheldians all over Lv35. Hasn't seemed to have happened even once yet, has it?!Quote:Originally Posted by TundraCommando
And yes we "do" need to run some AKITF's too.
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Quote:Yes, you're right. There is danger, but then you must remember that if I just executed a Human-form heal, when I return to White Dwarf, I have White Dwarf Sublimation to cover for any damage done to me while I was re-Dwarfing. The other thing is that it does take enemies some time to pick themselves up from the floor after they're successfully hit with White Dwarf Flare, and I use that time-window to jump away and heal myself.Originally Posted by AlienOne
...I would also argue that "jumping away from enemies who are still alive to execute a heal" is NOT safer than positioning yourself above enemies who are already dead for a heal. There is inherently more danger to yourself if there are enemies still alive who are (hopefully) taunted.
"The One"
The thing about Dwarf-tanking is that Black Dwarf has no way of shaking the enemies and breaking away for even a second other than teleporting itself away. I've found that the knockdown on White Dwarf Flare is quite crucial to PB-tanking.Quote:Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think that is quite situational, a lot of the time those dead bodies will be right by the feet of the living angry mob, so jumping away might make them follow you and give you that precious second to get the heal in. -
Quote:The thing is of course that a PB can heal itself in situations where enemy bodies have disappeared from the server's "memory" while still visually appearing on your screen because of lag. Drawing health from enemies is also a question of whether you manage to hit the enemy or not and here the PB also enjoys stability.Originally Posted by Mutio
The ability of a PB to heal regardless of circumstance is sort of bleh to me, I either draw life from the enemies, or draw it from the defeated, both of which are present 99% of the time when I am taking damage.
True enough though, when fighting most content the game offers, the reliability of the PB heals doesn't mean much, but when your team actually needs you to tank, because your dedicated Stone Tanker has disconnected in the middle of the STF, for example, tanking with a PB is much more reliable for the rest of the team as well.
Which is exactly why I have both Essence Boost and Reform Essence bound to NUMPAD keys that drop me to Human form and execute the heal. All I need to do when I want to use my Human-form heals is use White Dwarf Flare to juggle the enemies around me, then jump away while hitting the Human-form heal bind-key and immediately after that heal takes, I re-Dwarf and go back to tanking.Quote:Originally Posted by Mutio
...Two of the self heals that the PB has require human form though, so to access them you have to exit dwarf, which without eclipse seems like a risky venture. Especially for the instant before you reactivate your toggle shields.
Clearly, this is a lot more work than a normal Tanker would have to endure, but also much safer than having to position myself above defeated bodies to execute a Stygian Circle and re-Dwarf if I'm on my TriFormShade.
Which also means you don't even need to tank.Quote:Originally Posted by Mutio
...I believe my views are skewed by the fact that I mostly use my WS to solo levels that have been spawned with 8 players worth of enemies, and thus capping my damage and damage resistance is never an issue.
I believe WS have the upper hand on PB's in regards to DPS on all fronts.Quote:Originally Posted by Mutio
...So, to get the thread back on track, the Warshade has the better DPS for team play.
I use Sunless Mire as a debuff to slow enemies around me, and as a buff to increase my +ToHit and +Dmg. Clearly, unlike Black Dwarf Mire, it wasn't meant to be your bread and butter damage AoE, unless you're Human-only.Quote:Originally Posted by Mutio
...Sunless mire isn't as much of a damage dealer, given smaller radius and lower damage than dwarf mire, but it is more focused as a buff anyways, given its longer duration.
It's not that PB's can't pack quite a punch, but it's just much much easier to get a WS to out-damage a PB any day of the week, especially in the AoE front which is what truly impresses people.Quote:Originally Posted by Mutio
...My preliminary PB build dosen't look as promising in DPS or anything really at this point, but I am determined to make it work. Sort of pigeon holed myself into human form, because if I want triform, I go with my WS.
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Quote:If you take a look at the inherent powers for Kheldians, when teamed with damage-dealing AT's Peacebringers gain an increase in damage resistance, while Warshade gain a damage boost. A White Dwarf that is IO slotted to have 60% damage resistance needs only a trio of damage dealers to cap its damage resistance to 85% and having 3 independent self-heals, together with White Dwarf Flare that knocks down enemies around the PB gives you a more stable off-tank.Originally Posted by Mutio
I don't really see how the PB can be considered a more tanky class than the WS.
It's not that Warshades can't make good off-tanks, they definitely can, and they do. It's just that Warshades already have better damage potential which they usually decrease if they try to tank, and without Eclipse, a quickly charging self-reliant heal and quickly charging knock-down AoE mitigation, I find Warshades make an off-tank that's not worth my investment unless I'm solo and tanking for my fluffies.
To me, tanking is about reliability, and a class that inherently relies on enemies to heal itself is by definition not 100% reliable. That's why I consider PB's more tanky. -
Quote:I've always had my forum-build slotted with +Res and Chance to Frustrate (+33% chance to cause your enemy to read your post and get too frustrated for coherent speech)Originally Posted by AlienOne
...Sorry, human-form "taunting" as of late has been slotted with 3 ACC IOs, and I've had to re-slot my forum build with defense sets....
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Quote:Pfft... 3 lives? I remember when games didn't even have graphics and one wrong move would get you dead!Originally Posted by Carnifax
...Pah, I remember when you had 3 lives and when they were done that was it, game over man. Game over.
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Quote:It's a gaming-trend these days.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think that this game is so easy people are used to having everything given to them. With that kind of attitude they might as well remove mez from the game. And it is sad that so many people share the same feelings.
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Quote:Not even if Reform Essence would have an AoE heal component?Originally Posted by TundraCommando
...Don't take Glowing Touch away! Seeing as most people who play Peacebringers would more often play on normal teams rather than All Kheldian teams, would that not be more helpful?
Agreed, but what about getting everyone ready for an AKITF first?Quote:Originally Posted by TundraCommando
...Oh yeah, we should start getting some people on board for all Kheld STFs on Infinity.
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Quote:Another reason we need a to merge the communities...Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Might be a US/EU thing, plus Kheldians are so rare it is hard to judge properly.
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Quote:Indeed!Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Makes me wish once more for a cross pond server merge!
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Quote:He stole the cake and now he's trying to convince us all that it never was!Originally Posted by AlienOne
....The cake is a lie.
"The One"
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Quote:Well that's the thing really... PB's were never meant to out-damage WS's, they're more about tanking than DPS.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...When I saw Solar Flare I was impressed, with a good recharge build that would put out some serious AoE damage...
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Quote:I agree (nice Placate there!Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think it is good to have the mix of both on these forums to be honest.)
Everyone in my life has already established that I rarely take the easy-path.Quote:Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...assuming the player knows what they are doing at least mostly then adding that 10% extra numbers wise is easier than teaching them the next level of skill.
You're probably right, but it's been my experience that if a person was able to pick up on the tactics required to play a Kheldian using an SO build, making the leap to an IO build wasn't really difficult for them.Quote:Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...And when dealing with an experienced player adding that extra few % is the only thing we can do for them.
Wow... are you sure you're not a Peacebringer at heart?Quote:Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...So I would definately say we need a good bit of both, and both sides need to compromise a bit so we can help people get the best of both worlds.
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I'm a Lv50 TriFormPB and in the Umbra Illuminati, an Infinity All Kheldian SG, we still see Lv50 TriFormPB's. At least on a weekly basis.
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Quote:Same here, but we'll start with an AKSTF first.Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
Difficult but doable. This is my end goal.
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Quote:Hey lady, are you crazy'or'somethin'? What?!?? you wanna make PB's popular all'ova'sudden?Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...looking at Solar Flare does give me a new appreciation for PB's, and makes me wish even more the KB gets changed to KD.
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Quote:White Dwarf Flare + Solar Flare = double-stomping fun!Originally Posted by Ownator
I like the look of Solar Flare more than Mire :P That's the only reason I'm thinking of a PB lol
However, Warshades will always do more damage, because lets face it, after you've got 3 fluffies out there, you can basically tank for them in Dwarf form and have them do the ticks, while you use Black Dwarf Mire every time it's up!
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Quote:Of course superior numbers will always help your survival no matter how good or badly you play, that is if you can figure out what you're doing wrong and pull yourself out of trouble, or have friends that will save your bacon.Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
My ONLY argument is that superior numbers will always help your survival no matter how good or badly you play. And how anyone can seriously argue this is beyond me.
Armed with numbers alone, and no knowledge, you will eventually fail, and if not while fighting white enemies, you'll start failing after you increase the difficulty.
I've seen what a Warshade can do against purple enemies with only SO's, so truthfully, IO'ing out the build is very nice and all that, but putting the levels of stress you do on the numbers... its... obsessive, in my opinion, and I'd rather obsess about providing tactical knowledge than numerical stats. -
Quote:And I got my first TriFormShade to Lv50 before turning my attention to Peacebringers and stuck with one till she got to Lv50 as well. These days, I'm mostly on my Lv50 PB (when I'm not in Champions Online) and sometimes on my Warshades. Playing on a PB feels more tank-like and I'm more "willing" to sacrifice myself for my team, while my WS demand much more work and are less sacrificial lets say and instead they'll be the ones rezzing and healing the team in case of a team-wipe.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
That is the problem I had lol.
I made my Warshade first (Because I liked purple ) and love the basic powers like Nova/Dwarf, but then when I look at the powers that make the difference between the AT's I just love what Warshades get more than what PB's get
I like both classes essentially and play them both. -
Quote:They should essentially be the same for leveling, however, while Warshades dish out more damage, Peacebringers are easier to handle because they do not rely on enemies to buff and heal themselves like Warshades do.Originally Posted by Ownator
Between the two Archetypes, which one would be considered better for dishing out damage and leveling faster from 1-50?
Before getting Dwarf, the Warshade's Dark Nova relies on its slow and recharge debuffing to kite enemies and eventually defeat them, while the Peacebringer's Bright Nova relies on knock-back to prevent enemies from attacking you and debuffing their defenses until they are down.Quote:Originally Posted by Ownator
I have a 14 PB and 20 WS and want to level them both but I'm not sure which one would be easier first.
Most people will probably find the Warshade's Dark Nova easier to handle and level up with, however at Lv4 the Peacebringer gets its first heal which also boosts its HP a bit. Warshade's do not get anything remotely similar until Lv22 when they get Stygian Circle and become the envy of the entire playerbase
Warshades are better for damage for sure, and since the playerbase mostly worships that, you will probably have more fun with your Warshade. So, if you're serious about playing and testing both classes, I'd suggest you focus on your PB first because chances are, after playing your WS, you won't want to touch your PB anyway.Quote:Originally Posted by Ownator
I like the look of the PB but WS seems much better with Dark Extraction and Stygian Circle.