Lord Mayhem

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i can see that, a lvl 4 lvls 200x faster then a lvl 20....and you call that scaling?....no it isn't.
scaling it on your lvl means that you're gaining around the same X% XP as in a lvl 1-4, doesn't have to be to much like it but around that makes lvling more an enjoyment then a grind.

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Honestly, you'd want to be able to do every 5-level range throughout the game in an hour or two like L1-5 takes?

That would mean L1-50 would take 10-20 hours (oh look, that matches how long most console games have lasted me and they hardly give value for money). I'd be getting new L50 characters at an average rate of at least 10 per month. That would be insane - I'd have filled all 36 possible slots on Union & Defiant in 7 months.

And you'd never get to do more than 1 contact per 5-level range - heck, it would be a struggle to finish one without outlevelling it, unless you deliberately inflicted debt on yourself.

Please, tell me you're not being serious.

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Same, they'll most likely add BS to Tankers and Brutes to match thematically with the new Shield set

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Yeah it's very likely. And if Scrappers get Shields (as I believe they will) then I wouldn't be shocked to see Battle Axe, and probably War Mace too, being proliferated to Scrappers in I13 as well - so that Brutes/Tankers/Scrappers all have the same 3 weapon+shield options.

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it's a hell of a grind to go on higher lvls.

[/ QUOTE ]Not really. You've never played other MMOs? CoH/CoV are a lot faster than the average MMO in terms of reaching the maximum level quickly.

This is of course assuming you're not still playing on Heroic.

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I second that.

Sorudo, if you're finding this game a slow-levelling grind then I suggest you never try any other MMOs. Heck, when I used to play EverQuest it took some casual players 2+ years to hit L50, over 100+ days in /played time - but usually around a year for the average player, with maybe 50 days /played time - admittedly there was no xp debt, because you'd just lose 25% of a level's worth of xp, and maybe even get de-levelled, when you were defeated.

Meanwhile in CoH/V I'm knocking out a new L50 every 6-8 weeks or so on average (maybe 150-200 hours /played), if that, depending on build and whether it's a character I use for teaming or solo - that's with no powerlevelling/farming help, btw (you can probably do it in a week if you skip content and get on farms).

If you find CoH/V a grind then you're doing something very wrong - whether it's your playstyle or expectations I don't know. What games were you playing pre-CoH/V? This game is supposed to take longer to play through to the "end" than a 10-20 hour console game, so maybe it would seem long coming from that perspective, but it's hardly as arduous as you're making out.

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If you walked into a pub and started a joke at the expense of a regular, on your first visit would you expect a good kicking?

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Well it's hardly the OP's first visit to the forum.

Or is this some kind of post-count snobbery or forum clique thing I'm not understanding?

Really nice ideas, though I have similar concerns to Sir_Helm about whether the Devs would bother to implement new newbie content that is outlevelled so quickly for just one half of the game. Although I will just state for the record that I usually send my heroes to Galaxy, just to avoid the lag and broadcast spam in Atlas

I must admit that on blueside I tend to avoid all the starting contacts now and just street-sweep to L5 - it's faster and I've previously experienced all the missions for every origin in Atlas/Galaxy anyway so I don't feel I'm missing anything.

Redside I don't see that as an option because Kalinda/Burke not only give starting missions, but also the cape/aura missions eventually - I've heard that if you don't do their starting stuff then when you talk to them at L20 to get a cape you have to clear the starting missions anyway, which by that time are full of grey-con mobs.

So redside what I tend to do now is pick Burke (less running about for his missions than Kalinda) and once I finish him I'm usually L5 and head straight to Port Oakes without doing the second Mercy contact. The times I did the second Mercy contact I found that I hit Oakes so late that after the 3 newsies and Mayhem I'd get halfway into the referred contact's missions/arc before I was L10+ and outlevelling it.

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Better that, than an slots stretched too far, jack of all trades master of none 3 form.

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I'm sure you're right, but if it doesn't do at least as much damage as a scrapper (and I can't see how unless always in a full team of only Tankers/Defenders/Corruptors/Masterminds) then I think I'll abstain. It's the powergamer/achiever in me and I can't help it

And that was my point, more than the slots thing, because I know that - my tri-form warshade only has his human-form control/buff powers slotted. No way could human-only WS get anywhere near the damage a double-mired nova WS can do - and a PB wouldn't have any Mires at all, just BU (and yeah, I know PBs are more survivable, before someone says it - pre-L38 anyway - and that they hold aggro better in dwarf).

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there are alot of way to get Infernal, here are a few mission

Bind Bat'Zul mission from Virgil Tarikoss Strike Force
Take out Infernal mission from Operative Rutger
Defeat Infernal mission from Magus Mu'Drakhan
Defeat and Capture Lilitu mission from Magus Mu'Drakhan
The final mission of the Mender Silos Task Force.

i bet he could also apper in a bank mission as i had other heroes apper in there on bigger team and on relentess

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I'm well aware of all that, I just dispute that the accolade can be considered "easy" to get, especially when compared to the really easy ones like Demonic and Invader.

Even getting the Arsons can be an added pain if you're unlucky enough not to get many during your mayhems as you level up.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective though, and dependent on playstyle - the accolades pretty much all take some degree of farming, prior knowledge, or going out of your way (compared to normal gameplay) to get.

And we're off-topic

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One player out of how many? Is it wise to base a judgement on the actions of one moment with one character out of the countless interactions you've had in CoX? I do not think 'the slippery slope' is a valid argument since technically CoX have already embarked on this path by showing the list of bonuses in the first place.

My first toon (and namesake), Broadsword/Inv Scrapper and lvl 50 for, hmm, over a year now, has only recently started getting IOed up. I've brought him out for ding runs, PuG TFs, and casual carnage on occasion only wielding SOs. Curiously I have never had anyone spouting, "Lol no sets u suxor" when I've been cleaving bads in half.

Alternatively you could say that your view is the pessimistic, where easily summarised information will lead to criticism. My view, not necessarily any more valid, is that the same concise information would tend to lead to comments like, "+19% global damage! Gadzooks!"

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Yeah maybe, I am erring on the side of pessimism because I know how bad it is in other MMOs - and because I'm just generally cynical about stuff like this. Oh and also because I don't recall the community being so focused on farming, spam, or being so quick to turn on each other in the forums or on global channels (thinking of UBH and Arena especially) from back when I played I5-I8 before I took a year break from CoH/V (returning in I11). Sure, a lot of things were added in I9-10, but Inventions was the only one that changed the entire fabric of the game - and in my opinion the community too.

You're probably right, but I wanted to explain the source of my pessimism/cynicism. And for the record I love Invention IOs and the extra capability/customisation they've brought to character builds for PvE - but not the implementation of "rares", the extra time I have to spend at the BM/WW, how they've affected PvP, nor the knock-on effects on the CoH/V community and even my own playstyle.

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So have it as an option, if you're recruiting you can have a message on the SG registry board with your contact details etc. And if you're not recruiting you can switch it off. Its pretty much how the corp recruitment works in EVE, though with more griefing.

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Yeah this is the only way I could support this feature. Both of my SGs are just two-man ventures between a friend and I so we have our own storage and TPs - it's annoying enough having to explain to people why they can't join the SG in /tells, without getting emails too

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the best thing i find to speed up setup for a master mind pet is use Force of Nature , it a nice easy Accolade to get from Mayhen mission but my opion you only need to get this at or by lvl 32

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The 100 Signature Heroes requirement isn't so easy without some farming, even though signature heroes outside of the mayhem count for it (Farming Infernal's demons seems to be the preferred way to farm it, seeing as they're tagged as Vindicators like he is).

In fact the only reason my MM has that Accolade is because back in I7 I did so many LRSFs with him.

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I'd seriously consider slotting your upgrade powers for EndRed and Recharge, especially your second tier one (2 EndRed 2 Rech I find works). This will improve your readiness to fight.

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Doesn't help your combat capability much, though

Something I did on my MM, because he had a spare power choice and there wasn't much else I wanted, was to take Hasten mainly for the buffing at the start of a mission (and it even comes in handy sometimes in combat). I also turn off my toggles while summoning/buffing, which ensures my end lasts until all of the bots are buffed. Then after buffing I use Rest and while in Rest I turn on all of my toggles (to make best use of the time).

It is still an annoyance to spend 2mins buffing at the start of a mission - and I don't like going into fights with them only partly buffed because I need that AE damage, and the 2nd upgrade that grants it is always the one slowing me down most in the set-up. And that pre-mission set-up is the main reason I don't play my L50 MM much (only a few times since I7, and that was to get the Infiltrator badge and Watchman accolade recently for custom weapon unlocks) and am thinking of deleting my L16 Merc/Traps, with no plans to make any other MMs.

A friend of mine actually has the whole summon/buff process macro'd using a combination of keybinds and his keyboard's macro features - he alt-tabs and does some forum reading while everything gets set-up. Maybe that's the workaround, though I wouldn't be upset if the Devs made the upgrade powers into an AE (like Accelerate Metabolism on my corruptor) - though I guess that might get costly end-wise if you only needed to upgrade a single replacement pet after losing it in a fight.

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I exemp down in the Hollows, Atlas and Galaxy from time to time

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I'd guess that the majority of the playerbase isn't quite so altruistic as you

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It should start at level 10 with the exact % as now.
But it should increase as you level, the same way as the damage, recharge, etc. of your powers do.

Making debt nastier as you level would allow:
1. Getting debt badges easier as you level. (Or not.)
2. More reasons to play level 50's to get rid of debt.
3. More reasons for level 50's to exemplar down and help lower level players with teams etc.
(Faster debt recovery.)
4. May also slow down player leveling. (Hopefully.)


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I still don't see much of an incentive there for L50s to clear debt unless they're badgers. Why should L50s care about experience debt when they cannot (and don't need to) earn experience? I still think debt affecting inf and salvage/recipe drops would makes players more likely to want to avoid defeat, at all levels, more than xp debt.

I personally wouldn't mind if debt took an entire mission to clear, but you have to think about scaling it - a whole mission for whom? Taking a whole mission for a soloer or for an 8-man team? I doubt soloers would be happy if the debt from a death was going to take them 2-3 missions to clear just so that it would only take a single mission for a team - imho that would be a little harsh. This goes back to the question of whether scaling it so you get more debt while on a team would disincentivize teaming or not.

You could make the penalty time-based instead (reduced xp and/or inf for 20-30mins online-time after a death), but then you'd get players just leaving their characters logged in overnight to clear debt, so that wouldn't work either.

Maybe give the same debt to everyone on death, teamed or solo, but have the amount of debt that gets worked off per-kill adjusted according to team size. Although that would still penalise teams less for their rate of xp gain.

Not an easy issue to solve.

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I wont play a character that I cant plan a bbuild I'm happy with from 1-50 anymore. I wont stick to that build, or half the time pay attention to it, but I need to know I can make something I'm happy with. This comes back a Warshade and a Dominator which I wish I'd used the time elsewhere. I'm really glad I picked Ice primary on my dominator, but I wish I'd picked a secondary that I liked less so that slotting and power choices would be easieer and I wouldn't be wanting to 6 slot everything.

Simularly I wish I'd never rolled a warshade because I cant get the all human build I want till the late 30s and I find the other two forms imensely dull

So yeah perfectly understandable obsessions. I also wont create a character I cant think of a name or costume to go with concept wise

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Yeah, concept, name, costume, bio and build (especially the synergies between both powersets) have to gel together for me to bother making a character these days - if not then I know from experience I won’t be able to stick with them through 50 levels. Even then, that’s no guarantee I’ll enjoy playing them. I’ve deleted dozens (maybe hundreds) of characters by L20 that failed that criteria, to save wasting more time on them.

Like you I have my cautionary example - my Mind/Psi Dom. Concept, name, costume, bio and build gelled perfectly, but he just didn’t feel powerful/useful in play (mainly /Psi’s fault). For 30 levels I played the martyr, grinding on because so many said that L38 made it all worthwhile (PSW). All I achieved was souring myself to the whole archetype for 5 issues (from I7 ‘til I made my Earth/Fire in I12). Still haven’t deleted the Mind/Psi, still intend to get those 8 levels, still fooling myself that I’ll ever feel like playing him again - but he’s worth keeping as a reminder not to make that mistake again.

I adore my Warshade though - out of all my L50s I got there fastest with him, because I just couldn’t stop playing him - admittedly he is a tri-form double-mire build, which is the only way to build a Warshade to satisfy a damage-junkie like me (and gameplay-wise he was almost fully-formed by L20-22ish, although L38 helped survivability a lot ) - personally I just know that I wouldn’t find human-only viable at all - and that has put me off ever making a Peacebringer, as so many PB players go human-only, but I don't see how that could make anything but a weak blaster/scrapper hybrid.

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Because the energy in Dragon Ball Z is yellow, ergo all energy must be yellow. I think is what he was getting at.

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Ok, now I'm wishing I hadn't asked

Yeah, that's certainly not a good reason for energy blasts to be yellow - in fact I find it an excellent reason why they should be any colour except yellow. /veto

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I should mention the way I play the game could be interpreted as embarassing, as the statistician in me always takes control. Since i9 came out, I have recorded (via pen+paper) exactly how much invention salvage has dropped over all my characters on my 1 account. I could also tell you what badge I earnt, on what character, and when (at least 9 times out of 10 anyway). Not too mention having all the information to hand of what components are needed for what badges. Starting to sound very a.n.a.l. retentive now, so better stop!

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That’s not embarrassing - I’m a part-time statistician and Excel-junkie myself My particular CoH/V obsession is making up lists and information sheets, both in Excel and Word, with every piece of information I might possibly need while playing to maximise my efficiency. E.g. one summarises every contact in both sides of the game and what arcs/EBs/AVs/badges they have, another lists all the badges needed for accolades with a column for each of my characters (so I can tick off what they've got), another just has general info like which factions drop tech or arcane salvage or the levels/side-tasks/factions in every mayhem/safeguard mission. And there are loads more. I have a huge folder with similar sheets from all of the other MMOs I’ve played over the last 10 years.

Perhaps my worst CoH/V obsession is that I can't play a character until I've planned out all of their power choices to L50, and what IOs I’ll have slotted into them by L50, typed it up and printed it out. Even once that's done I can't create them until I've written a bio I like, then it's just a matter of an hour or two in the character creator tweaking their costume to perfection

Everyone gets obsessive about something. I've had friends who were obsessive about sport on TV, obsessive about collecting things, obsessive about clothes, or whatever. Anything can be viewed as sad or boring by someone else, but don't let it bother you - do what makes you happy - don't feel guilt because you’re not conforming to what other people expect. Conformists don’t know what they’re doing anyway - that’s why they conform - because it’s easy.

And on the age thing, I’m not at all surprised to see someone like mereman playing CoH/V aged 56. My EQ1/EQ2 /DAoC guilds and my Planetside outfit all had players older than me in them - even players in their 50s and 60s - although in my experience the majority were in their late 20s or in their 30s.

Oh and Carnifax, I agree completely - and in the past I’ve used MMOs the same way, to stay in touch with people.

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BUT the lack of incentive to exemplar is a bigger concern really. IMO they should do something tied in with the IO/Salvage system to make exemplaring worthwhile again

[/ QUOTE ]50+ badges not a good enough incentive? Ouroboros helped this out, and it wasn't just a short term fix.
I would happily still use Ouroboros (on my main badger), even after collecting all the badges.

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Yeah but badges only really matter to badgers - I feel confident speculating that the majority of the playerbase doesn't care one whit about badges unless they're needed for an accolade power or to unlock a contact they want to do.

An incentive for exemplaring would need to have a more widespread appeal for it to be worthwhile for the majority. Clearing debt used to be that incentive, but even then it wasn't an incentive for L50s (unless they were badgers ). An increase in salvage/recipe drop rate or inf earned would probably be the most attractive option for the majority of players.

As for debt, well maybe debt should affect inf earned and salvage/recipe drop-rate too, instead of xp - then it would have an impact on L50 players as well as everyone else.

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energy should be yellow

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To name the two most obvious "energy blasters", neither Silver Surfer nor Iron Man's energy blasts are yellow, and energy isn't yellow, so why did you pick yellow in particular? Why not red like Cyclops' energy blast? Just curious

Oh and Mechwolfos, don't hold your breath for a new MM henchman set - the Devs have said that new powersets are more likely to be made if they can be proliferated to the maximum number of archetypes. Henchman sets can only be used by MMs - one AT out of 10 non-epic ATs, and also an AT in the least popular half of the game.

Besides, the Devs have hinted heavily that after Shields (brutes/tankers/scrappers) we'll be getting a new blast set next (blasters/corrs/defs) which is very likely to be Dual Pistols, then probably a new control set (trollers/doms) after that. Based on the rate of previous new powerset releases that's probably the next 6 issues covered.

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H-E-double hockey sticks NO!!! Bad enough you can see them, let alone seeing how powerful they are. Next thing you know it'll be "Sorry, you don't have X bonus at Y percentage, won't invite you."

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I have to agree with BlueRabbit on this - this is rife in other MMOs and I don't want to see it rife here.

Although I have already seen it here on just one occasion. Not long before I12 I logged in my pre-I9 L50 MM (at the time slotted solely with SOs) and was stood at Sharkhead BM, checking prices for the IOs I was planning to buy to re-slot him. Then I get a /tell from a random lowbie saying something like (I don't recall, so I'll paraphrase): "No IOs on a L50? Man you suck!" I ignored him, but it demonstrates to me that at least one "gear-snob" has migrated here.

Imho we're on a slippery slide - lets not push the Devs into making us fall faster. Ok I'm biased, I originally came to CoH to escape the gear/raid-grind mentality I'd tired of in other MMOs. I still hope this MMO can keep its independence and differences from every other MMO in the genre, both in terms of community and features, but I see those differences being eroded with every issue.

Anyway I'm sure the Vault website feature will reveal full details of other players' builds anyway, for those that care (fortunately you can opt out, as I guess most PvPers will at least) - won't that be enough? Or do some of you want absolutely full details of everyones' builds available in-game so that nosy miscreants can not only criticise a player's power picks but their slotting too?

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Also.. have you ever fought a super speeder..? Like Synapse.

If I wasnt able to slow or hold him... defeating him in nearly impossible.

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Speaking of Synapse, what Super Speed really needs is to have the same graphical effect that he has when he runs

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Mmmmm.... Rad/Fire WITH Power Boost *drools*

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If it works out to be even half as much fun and powerful as my Fire/Rad Corruptor then you'll be grinning like an idiot for most of the jaunt to 50 (and probably long after).

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And to answer Valkryst on their previous post. I was summarising my answers, to try and keep the post short, hence why they seem more like generalisations

[/ QUOTE ]I know, I’m just allergic to generalisations, so I felt it was worth contradicting in a constructive way. After all, generalisations trigger the vast majority of flame wars on forums.

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The second point about PuGs was definitely a wide sweeping generalisation. However, a lot of my initial friends came from one very good PuG team, which then lead me onto being a part of a SG

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Yeah I think a lot of players had that kind of experience early-on in most MMOs they've played - I certainly have - I think lots of people start an MMO more open-minded to making new friends than once they’re established. In most MMOs those new early friendships have lasted me all the way to the end of my time there, but for some reason on CoH/V most of my friends have quit - so did I, but I came back - yet this game has a lot of "churn" so I expect some will return (now if only the global bug hadn't wiped my gfriends list...).

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if I was to see a psychologist, I'd probably admit to being a bit embarassed about playing a MMORPG at the age of 35, when most of my friends have families, wine evenings and dinner parties. But then again that's the child in me, that I long to embrace. I am more addicted to CoX, than Alcohol, Drugs (any kind) or Gambling!

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I'm the same age as you. I've done the whole dinner party thing. I also had a few years... ok, most of a decade... where 90% of my evenings were spent in bars/clubs. It’s fun for a while, but it can become a habitual chore, like anything. Don't let the whole “social conformity” thing get to you. CoH/V can be just as fun and social (if not moreso) - as a bonus it doesn't give you a hangover or liver failure either I don't feel like I'm missing much.

Though variety is good - I probably spend more evenings playing CoH/V than I should (around that 90% mark I mentioned earlier, heh), but it's cheaper and safer than drinking yourself silly, or many other hobbies I've been into (including sailing, wargaming, shooting, windsurfing and p&p rp’ing). The only drawback I see with MMOs is that the only exercise I get is in my clicking/typing fingers

But here gaming in general has become a lot more socially acceptable than it used to be even 5 years ago, so I don't feel any "shame" about it. MMOs are a lot more social than vegetating in front of a TV all evening (which is what most of my friends with their own families do nowadays - heck, it's what most of my own family do). Nobody even batted an eyelid at a family dinner party recently when my mother's 55ish year old friend pulled out her Nintendo DS and started playing it (my mother wants one now, lol), and my mother has often caught my PC-hating father (who is in his 60s, like her) playing some of my brother's old PC games on their PC. Gaming is here to stay - give it a couple of decades and gaming will be more popular than TV with the masses.

[EDITED to remove a generalisation <slaps self>]

I think Death_Badger and Cognito stated best how I feel about PvP in this game. Sure PvP is tacked on, as with a lot of PvE-biased MMOs, but it needs to be better balanced with more appealing rewards if it is going to thrive in any form at all. I PvP very little here anymore and I’ll give you my main reasons and perceptions why:

<ul type="square">[*]Depending which character I take into PvP, I usually either get 2/3-shotted by someone I didn’t even know was there, quickly debuffed into uselessness and slowly killed without being able to do anything, or avoided (because I’m not worth the hassle of defeating, I guess), which isn’t fun. Most PvPers I’ve run into only seem interested in easy kills with the odds way in their favour. When I get kills like that I feel cheap and get no sense of satisfaction from them, which is odd because in PvP FPS games I get lots of satisfaction from snipe-kills (especially headshots) at a few hundred yards, or shooting people in the back, which is comparatively the same (maybe it's the lack of twitch skills /shrug - here your build is more important than skill)
[*]My PvE builds cannot compete with purpled-up hardcore PvP builds, but I’m not about to spec for PvP because I enjoy doing endgame TFs and I like how my characters are built for PvE - and I don’t want to farm.
[*]When I defeat someone in PvP (mostly on my stalker), or get defeated (every other AT ), there is a very good chance that I’ll get some kind of personal abuse fired back at me via /tell - I’m not sure if this is still as commonplace as it was in I6/7, as I haven’t PvP’d much lately, but...
[*]I get such a bad vibe from abusive and elitist posts I see on these forums by hardcore PvPers, and from reading the Arena channel in-game sometimes (I had to move it to its own tab, so the meaningless spam/abuse wouldn’t “pollute” my other tabs), that I just know I don’t want to associate, or be associated with, most of them - this is a strong disincentive for me to want to participate in PvP, or care about PvP, at all.
[*]There is no worthwhile in-game reward for PvP except enjoyment - and for the above reasons I don’t get any enjoyment from it in this game.[/list]PvP isn’t balanced, it’s a colossal hassle, I don’t find it at all fun in this game (even though I adore the PvE combat here) and it gives me no tangible rewards - why should I bother? When I feel like PvP I play a game designed for it that has either no PvE or very little PvE (mainly Battlefield 2142 atm - my PvP game is usually an FPS - but the only one I’ve played that really fostered the tactical and co-operative PvP I like was Planetside a couple of years ago - I really hope Huxley is going to be good, but my hopes are fading).

PvP needs so much work in this game to make me want to play it regularly - and my friends care about it even less than I do - so I hardly know where to start with suggestions. Also I’m not sure I want to bother, as I’d rather the Devs focused on PvE, as that is what they have proven they are good at. But I will suggest one thing - inventions certainly didn’t help - perhaps as a start we need to have a separate PvP build from our PvE one, with different power picks and slotting - maybe a PvP build that solely uses special PvP enhancements that you unlock access to by PvPing, with better rewards for PvPing in teams /shrug.

&lt;removed - please don't get personal&gt;

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Water Power sets would be awesome ;o) Then again with all talk of the original origins in the tales along the way from the midnight club may well open this up....

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That's early groundwork for adding Incarnates in future... probably

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How about the possibility of Heroes and Villains rising above the pettiness of hero/villain rivalry

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If that happened then the only petty rivalry left would be the entire hardcore PvP crowd against you - on the bright side they wouldn't be able to do much to you except hard stares, verbal abuse and trying to lure you into the arena for a beating

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Water Blast for i13! Or at least in the future sometime soon. . . xP i13 &amp; i14 are meant to be HUGE; its possible! ¬ _ ¬

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Well, you can dream

Devs have said I13 is HUGE, but nothing about I14 yet, afaik.