Lonelyshade

Look just post what has been stolen , if you on union villain side you are in luck ,since i dont play this game but as a solo single player game , while i am bored with wow raid organising .

Sadly to say stop trying to go on more , and worst customer support can do is sent somebody to this kids "wanabe lawyer quote and reply with no sense of meaning infested " forums , that has lost it glory of old days coh debates.
Neither is the community the same as the old days.

Instead of argueing about refunding the person lost stuff even if its worthless and virtual , guess people own self indulged feelings of importance is more important then helping somebody out .
Especially turning it into flaming topic .

Now Atlas just post what you lost and stop argueing if anything of IO importance that can be replaced of equel value will do so .
Consider it a lesson learned that trust is to be gained not given , and sorry somebody with that high ambition usually dont deserve a spot , cause they simply sooner or later want to try it on there own , and sorry there is 2 side to a story , and the other side is that he might have worked hard too , to gather part of those stuff , so when he leaves he is entitled to part of the salvage too .
Nothing is yours if you going to share it , if you didn´t want to share then keep it locked .

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why take a stone tanker if you're not going to use granite armor. might as well make a ice tanker and have more defense, or a invulnur have more dfenese/resistance

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Who says you are not going to use granite , this is more why stuck being a granite , when there is more to offer in the stone armour set then granite.

Seriously if you dont understand that why are you playing a stone armour set .

Most people dont even understand the power of regen ,maybe shannon wants to mathematically calculate how much 275% regen with the health of a tanker is worth , compared to a ice tanker . especially when you are getting hit !!

Now as for brutes , when you tried different kind of brute especially when you level up , you would have known whats keeping you alive ,not that measy brute DEF .

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takes hasten to over come, but if another brute has hasten he attacks EVEN more then the graniter can.

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If you dont go into GRANITE mode hasten affects you as much as other brutes.
Sorry whats that kind of logic , i mean if any other brute takes swift alone they save 2 slots
They dont even have to take TP its a free choice ,they only need TP other to achieve the same effect .

Cause simply put not many AT have the DEF and RESISTANCE of Granite , now i dont know why people argue , cause why is STONE ARMOUR with kinetic a god cause of Speed Boost , is it the regen factor of endurance , yes partially but that can be simulated with a empath Recovery Aura.
Nope its simply the speed boost that provides the god factor mode .

The question is more what do you want , to cover the weakness of knockback and hold against a controller.
so more protection.

Or able to prevent people from running and knocking down flyers with Airsuperiority.

In PVE the AS take 100% more presence in a brute cause its a garantee knockup and fast fury builder.
While in PVP its also a major factor in beating knockback resitance and having a quick chain followup, it isn´t so dominating as in PVE .

So its simply what you want more defense or offense.
If defense go for the leaping pool
If offense go for Flying pool with AS .

Superspeed yes definetly a plus in PvP since fly is quite slow , while superspeed means a quick escape or fast approach , SJ is more for range attackers since they can kite with impunity , its much tricker for melee at to master .

Well hope this helps your choice.

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LOL, you actually think your "context" changes something don't you. To paraphrase the bit you quoted; A stone tank is uber but without a kineticist is a drag to play.

Not: no other part of the quote establishes a "context", and even the uber part is irrelevent. So, since you don't seem to know what you're saying yourself anymore, lets ask the question.

Is a stone tank a drag to play if there's no kinetics support?

A yes/no answer will suffice.


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Reading is a part of the a discussion , when you keep reading what you want , and then again try to back it up without any facts , then have to cross read , and twist things up just to make sense .
I dont know what you want ?? maybe i should take some of your example in your last couple of posts , cause its interesting how you describe one section of something .
Then next write your own answer to the previous statement.

Quoting game is very nice when well done , but doing a quote and snappy answer , when the next snappy answer contradicts your own quote reply is a bit silly .

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A few tetchy remarks don't count as flaming.

If we'd stuck to the original point of the dispute even those could haven avoided. So lets spell it out;

Innigo;
-spd of rooted/granite is easier to overcome/adjust to than the -rchrge of granite.

Lonelyshade
-spd is the biggest handicap of the stone set

That's how it seems to me, or are you going to accuse me of taking you out of context again

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- recharg only takes HASTEN to overcome !!!
gee thats 1 power in 1 powerpool with 3 slots .
-spd is how many powers and slot to overcome ??

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Innigo, in my opinion a brutes role is to go in and dish the smackdown on whoever they meet and be able to stand up to as much punishment as they can at the same time. All brute builds in there own way have the ability to do this in differant ways.

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No the brute roll is currently undefined , its simply a scrapper and lesser tanker rolled in one , trouble is that with I7 brute has been given a sudden stealth taunt aura radius .
So there roll have again been changed , infact the Brute is simply with fullfury a scrapper damage with scrapper resistance , that was made able to tank with a corrupter/mastermind support .
Stone armour even with the lower resistance and defense , is still higher then anything other Brutes has .

In a way a stone brute is able to tank in a certain limit not as well as a tanker , but definetly beter then brutes without support .
You cannot simply define the brute , cause its a flexible concept , people can create the brute they want , without being a gimp in a team , cause they were not meant to be tanks when CoV went into Beta .

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Drivel. Gauntlet works irrespective of the damage numbers.

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Really :P say that again when you tested it out with some other tanker doing more damage then you !!!!
AH never played with a other tanker in your radius ???

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Why would a tank need another tank within their team let alone radius add to that it can lead to messy taunt control.

"i thought you had him?"
"no i thought you had him?"
"poor kenny"

The duration of gauntlet is endurance related and the most damaging single target attacks or not so damaging aoe attacks are likely to have more of an endurance cost assigned to them. The duration for aggro caused by damage is far longer than the taunt duration caused by gauntlet so the result would be a nearby tanker using a higher damaging attack would be offering a better taunt duration and win aggro and also whoever has a better scale of damage after anybodies taunt duration is gone would get aggro.

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Why would you need a another tanker in your aggro radius ??
I dont but always they seem to join me once i have such big group around me , am stone not invunerable or fire or ice who has mobility to move around helping others , then leaving the orignal mob in place for the other tanker to handle .

So in that case yes my damage is way higher then most PUG tankers and my shielding higher , cause if they would charge in and handle the alpha i wouldn´t mind playing the support .

Now as for the rest thank you for explaining to others what i meant with my sarcastic flamepost

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NoT what i said , but if you want to know what i would have said is kinetic trollers make stone like a god , if you dont have kinetic trollers , the team has to pay for you being a lump and adapt .

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Nice to make things up in your own mind and take things out of context ...

Here is the complete things , but like all people who just mindless bash please quote the whole thing .

Here's what you actually said. "But without the proper support a kinetic , the stone armour is like a drag to play." I paraphrased, but seems fairly accurate.

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Now stone armour is a hard set to master and most just PL there way to granite without even knowing how to play it.
A stone brute has lower DEFENSE and RESISTANCE then a tanker no way it reaches the max .
If you think reaching the max is so important , in CoV thats easily done with a corrupter shielding , unfortunatly again it proven that no matter what people dont slot the shield others , but guess what if you have somebody slot the shield other , you will reach the cap without any penalty !!!

In that case suddenly stone doesn´t look so good
Sure Stone granite is uber i definetly wont deny that.
But without the proper support a kinetic , the stone armour is like a drag to play , it seriously is a rock and others beter not knockback anything from the aggro radius , or else its like crawl speed time.


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Here is what i said if you try to get things out of context please quote the whole thing . not a small part and definetly not try to rephrase it in your own meaning .

So shall we continue this flaming , or get back to serious topic ??
Cause when i do post or edit i write down what i edit , never do i take people things out of alignement like some other do .

Time for one of those famous kick the quotes down war that will be answered with another worthless soon to be kicked quote down ....

Fun time
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Feel free to tell me the sky's blue next.

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ITS BLUE !!!!

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And yet, it never happened. No mez, no death due to lag issues despite doing it dozens of times. It take nearly 3 seconds for the -spd effects of rooted to fully kick in, if I'm mez vulnerable for the first 1/2 second of that it's obviously a non-issue.
Incidentally. Can you tell me mob reaction time. I'll bet it's longer than 0.5 seconds.


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Mobs reaction time is instant when you are entering the aggro range , not the alert range .
Some mobs have beter perception , well like the rest cause what haven´t happen doesn´t mean it wont be happening .
Maybe you haven´t tanked enough at low levels
Guess that must have been the reason to not having a rock plummet you out of the way .

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Drivel. Gauntlet works irrespective of the damage numbers.


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Really :P say that again when you tested it out with some other tanker doing more damage then you !!!!
AH never played with a other tanker in your radius ???

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After inferno (which has no knockback effects) mudpots will hold everything in place. Damage numbers for agro (when discussing a tank) are irrelevent.

What are you talking about? My stone tank has ZERO problems holding agro providing the mobs are in range of mudpots ot my pbaoes - one of which does ZERO dmg btw. It's when stuff gets knocked away, out of range of mudpots that the problems start.


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Hurray somebody who again is ignorant immobilised can´t be knocked back


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I remember my own posts well, which is why I know I never "screamed" nerf at any point. You're just talking [censored]. That much is evident now. It's called a strawman argument. Where you manufacture an argument for someone else and argue against that rather than the point they're actually making. The point, in my case is that the -recharge (of granite) is a MUCH bigger issue than the -spd. I'm beginning to think that either you've never played a stone tank to any decent lvl or you simply weren't very good with it.


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Temper temper temper , unlike you i dont go making post up like the one before and twisting things out of contest .
Well must have hit a sour spot to yell so much .

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Obviously not, since granite didn't kick in till lvl32. Why do I have to tell you this? So for 32 lvls there was no granite. And in that time I found solutions to problems you seem to think were insurmountable. So who know what best now?
Play your tank whatever way you want, but don't come on here spouting that the -spd is a gigantic handicap that's the bane of the stone set and that without a kinetics troller at your back you're going to be pish, coz it's blatantly [censored].


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-spd isn´t a handicap , then why did you take 3 slotted swift , and teleport ?
Ah what a temper tantrum , how nice is it to see you admit to yourself being creative and saying - speed is not a big deal , but infact you try to find way arounds it thats totally not creative at all .
So infact you contradict your own statement , so more nasty words for it ??

(ambrose can delete it cause its a bit of flame back post)

NoT what i said , but if you want to know what i would have said is kinetic trollers make stone like a god , if you dont have kinetic trollers , the team has to pay for you being a lump and adapt .
Thats a big difference , and the few times you have to adapt you beter minimise the flaws as good as possible .
So dont get detoggled :P is one of them .
But kinetic trollers make almost any AT a good with there damage buff and SB (if peoples refresh rate can handle it)

And yes if you really adapt then you would have known when to stop using granite when to use granite .
Cause in those levels to 40 you would have known what your basic armour could have tanked easily .... and if you played more tankers you would have known what a luxury stone armour set infact is .
Now i given you enough things to think about , and if you dont think i can´t adapt with a kinetic you sure are wrong.
Cause i sure have and i dont go looking for healers kinetics when i do team i just do with what is availeble ,and i dont impose my will on people how to play , they either adapt for the team not me or they dont , always happens .
Like i always will adapt if there is somebody who can tank beter certain mobs . granite is my ace in the hole if we can´t do it .

edited a the capital T

Look there is not a single AT that can be as big impact as a tanker (and no it doesn´t have to be a granite)

A player can do tons of things , a combination of players can even achieve odds beyond anything currently designed.

But unfortunatly the tanker AT has the most responsible or the least impact in a game , its hard to define .
But they can pull out stuff in combination with the team , that can be a wipe prevention .

If a scrapper wants to tank so be it , if the scrapper does a good job , even more fun for the tank to go scranking (a change of playstyle never hurts no need for all the shielding thus more endurance into damage output)
If things go wrong the tank can take it over .

Tanks are usually a rally point , lets say you have two tanks , first one goes down , the rest can still rally around the second one .

Most other AT even in very skilled hands can only delay the mob while the tank can really hold out .

Now when does the tank have the least impact !!
When the whole strategy is involved around pulling ,seperate fights all over the place in look of a glowie or a hostage ,generally chaos split up fights.
In that case the tank can still carry it weight if it was designed that way .
But in that case a scrapper or other selfsufficient person
is infact a beter candidate.

Now which other AT can hold out for prolonged (not unlimited) time against a AV or GM .

And Shannon is right its not fixed , cause it will never be fixed it all is dependant on the team , and no other AT (excluding the empath ) is more reliant on a TEAM to shine .
Or let the team down fastest if not understanding the team .

Now since most of the argument is about tactical situation and situations that are mostly out of people control especially in 8 man.

Aggroing 3 mobs depend on what you want to do herd ?
Aggroing 3 mobs depend on how densely they are packed in outdoor missions .
Aggroing 3 mobs cause somebody else auto shoots something thats dead auto target the next one ..
Happens quite often especially at higher levels .

Now why i said did you really have a granite tanker , is about swift 3 slotted is faster.
And tons of other things like this ..

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Never needed to. The interesting thing about rooted is the way it slows you down. Try it; run with sprint on and then hit rooted and see how far you get before you're fully slowed. It's not *very* far, but certainly far enough to go from a doorway to the centre of a room. And, as mentioned above you only need to do this for six lvls and then tp takes over.


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If you have used rooted this way , you would have notice it take a while before the mezz to activate while between speeding time and activation time there is a 0.5 second no status protection , in that 0.5 sec a sapper or anything else that has a mezz effect can have you nailed , a small lag issue and you are a dead tanker .

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I'm a tank. Damage is a secondary concern to aggro management.


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Unfortunatly if you have found out damage is very important to a tanker , especially after the taunt effect nerfs , higher damage means simply higher amount of aggro hold
For example after a NUKED , a firesword circle with build up will hold everything thats NUKED in place.
Why you think most stone dont hold aggro damage is part of situations nowadays to hold the attention , not fully slotted attacks with damage or TAUNT , means as good as useless punchvoke especially fighting +3 or higher.

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Can you point to the bit where I called (let alone screamed) for a nerf? Coz I certainly don't remember doing it. Oh, and RIGHT at the start of my last post I told you; lvl42 Stone tank, Granite for the last 10 lvls.

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That all weakness are easily overcome ???
Pardon if you can´t even remember your own post !!
Why ask somebody else to point it out for you .
In that situation if you have a granite , you would have notice that stone armour , in all your describe situation of tanking , doésn´t even NEED granite .
Stone armour , Crystal Armour are more then sufficient for your tactics especially 4 slotted .No other tanker has psionic resitance or protection , you have as high as ice in def with added benefit of 275% regen that with tankers high health .... and a earth embrace to increase the regen.
Makes it more then tankable .
Stone armour has more flexibility then just Granite .
So in 42 levels you are saying you haven´t learned much about the whole stone armour set other then granite ??

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Look Innigo if you think movement isn´t a big deal make a stone tanker only needs level 8 to see what the movement is like with rooted , thats the speed you will be crawling with granit and rooted on.

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Mine is 42nd lvl atm. I almost *never* have granite and rooted on at the same time except when I'm swamped with mobs and not going anywhere coz they've all come to me.
In the early days I had rooted slotted with recharge redux so I could pop it off and then on again quickly. By lvl12 and my 1st round of DOs I had swift 3 slotted. But you're right between lvls 8 and 12 movement was a real pain. 4 whole lvls before the adaptations to the movement penalty really began to kick in.

By the time 22nd and SO's rolled around I'm moving as fast, if not faster than PBs and WSs in dwarf form (never raced them but I don't notice any real difference between my tank and PB) and their slow movement is rarely brought up as a huge issue.

Bottom line is I don't "think" it's not an issue. I know it's an issue, but an easily solvable one.

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Wait you are saying they all come to you ?? even after a NOVA who scatters them beyond your 8 ft arc in open field ?
Honestly its not that i dont believe you , its that its highly unlikely in a 8 man team where attacks after a attack happens .
Having no rooted on in 8 man team while you move in , one simple hold knockback immo , sets you back a long way .
So you are saying as single tanker in a 8 man team , you willing to risk that ?
Honestly by the time SO kicks in lets say you will be moving as fast as people without sprint ..........
You really want to test that go ahead challenge a people to a run duel , he only have to have sprint on ....


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TP cost endurance , again needs slotting , so in the end granite pays already 2 slots for swift , 2 slots minimal for tp .

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Swift needs slotted early, but tp can wait so long as you're willing to rest when travelling to a mission. Even now I've only got one end redux in tp and it's enough. It's more important to toss out the taunts and pbaoes than have a continuous attack chain so you can actually rest mid-fight without endangering the squishies.

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Well in this case your drawback of 30% damage could have been 50% less damage ,in this case you dont even need TP a provoke would do the same , so in this case you are static.
So again a perfect example of tanking , but unfortunatly not every situation is perfect .
In that example you dont need your attacks , so neither does the granite seems to be worst off .
So you reached your cap of how many mobs around you ?

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If you think reaching the max is so important

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Eh?

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There is a 90% cap on resistance and i can´t remember the defense value tought it was 50% def for a tanker .
Shields of for example forcefields , corrupters fireshield , allows other tankers/Brute to reach that cap .
So in essence they can also reach that cap of equel resistance and defense same way granite is.

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the stone armour is like a drag to play , it seriously is a rock and others beter not knockback anything from the aggro radius , or else its like crawl speed time.

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Not my experience, sorry. Generally the only time I catastrophically lose agro is when the knockback throws mobs into the next spawn when most of the 1st spawn is still kicking. Then it's less the movement issue and more the recharge that's the limiting factor. Despite having taunt 3 slotted for recharge redux it's still not fast enough so I have to select my targets carefully. Even after a nova has scattered them, unless someone else hits them they'll all come back to me, so I have to prioritise the ones other team mates are attacking. When we're only dealing with a single spawn this is easy. When a second spawn is involved it's nigh on impossible, but then could your average fire or invul tanker do it either, if we're talking +3s, not likely without backup. Ice, probably, but they are the premier agro grabbers in the tank world.

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honestly the reason that granite makes superior tanks compared to others is that they can stand up to 3 mobs .
Still be kicking and damaging stuff , so if you want to only fight one mob , you might as well have taken another tanker and do beter in it .
A granite is the rock , cause it can easily handle 3 mobs , sure it can´t hold the attention of 3 mobs , but that also depend on creativity of the playere

But seriously do you have a granite form yet ?
And did you try it before screaming nerf , or did you do your calculations from the planner and stats ?

Best tank i ever played with , was the reason i took up tanking , and it sure wasn´t a herding tank !!

No the best tank is the one who can improvise under any situation , with the tools and people they have .
Sure they might not feel important to people , but you notice it right away when the tank face plant , so does others.

Look Innigo if you think movement isn´t a big deal make a stone tanker only needs level 8 to see what the movement is like with rooted , thats the speed you will be crawling with granit and rooted on.

TP cost endurance , again needs slotting , so in the end granite pays already 2 slots for swift , 2 slots minimal for tp .

Now stone armour is a hard set to master and most just PL there way to granite without even knowing how to play it.
A stone brute has lower DEFENSE and RESISTANCE then a tanker no way it reaches the max .
If you think reaching the max is so important , in CoV thats easily done with a corrupter shielding , unfortunatly again it proven that no matter what people dont slot the shield others , but guess what if you have somebody slot the shield other , you will reach the cap without any penalty !!!

In that case suddenly stone doesn´t look so good
Sure Stone granite is uber i definetly wont deny that.
But without the proper support a kinetic , the stone armour is like a drag to play , it seriously is a rock and others beter not knockback anything from the aggro radius , or else its like crawl speed time.

To end this worthless discussion :P

Sorry Granite Armour pays for it hibernate form with ability to hold aggro .

With the biggest draw back ever !!!
Mobility ....
Nomatter what all the other drawbacks are mobility is the problem with Granite form , the mobility to not jump small steps , the mobility to crawl with rooted and granite on.

Sorry to gain back mobility you have to sacrifice how many slots ?
And power choices that again needs to be slotted ?

All other drawbacks are not as important as mobility , why do you think unyielding with root on the spot wasn´t popular ? even with the taunt everything you can see back in I3.

Now as for granite definetly slot with 3 DEF its worthwhile dont take my word for it just test it out

Both tanker and scrapper resistance protections have been downgraded from mag 15 till mag 9

That happened pre I6 so dont blaim I6 for it

Oh a nice scranker/tanker build .

Well Stonefist definetly 1 end redux since that one is going to be used a lot .
Stone Mallet 1 end redux
Heavy Mallet 1 end redux + 1 recharge (slot this one preferable before damage or else you will find it huge endurance sink , once 5 slotted the damage is awesome even against smash lethal resistance people)
Blazing Aura 2-3 end redux (depending you going switch on or always on)
Boxing 0 end redux infact 0 slotting
Hurl Boulder 0 end redux
Tremor 1 end redux (depending on your usage of it)
Seismic Smash 1 end redux defintly

Well if you dont want to tank , dump taunt for buildup even with 1 recharge its still usefull once in a while

But seriously a brute is even beter with this build , dump taunt ,dump though and boxing get air superiority as fast as possible at 6 .
Chain attacks to build fury brawl stonefist and air superiority , with mix of stone mallet , finishing move heavy mallet .
One way ticket to smash heaven .

Remember with endredux slotting the higher the value the more usefull the 1 slot makes .
Stone fist might not seem worthwhile to slot with 1 end redux , but since its your main attack in a line of heavy recharge and end redux eaters , its best to have something that is costing less for the more damaging attacks .

If you activat your Thundering strike what ever AoE powers since its now calculated on what was in the area when you click on it , you still benefit from Aim+BU powerbuff , the animation might take longer to accomplish , but the damage is already calculated.
Only thing that cancels it if you die , it seems then the damage is stopped auto .

Well leaves recall friend as explained, TP Foe (for those sneaky pulls and ambush situations)

Other is Aid other/Stimulant + Heal Self (all of them quite good can be made instant with interruption reduction enhancements) heal numbers aren´t shabby either.

Well since i know you and your partner DUO dont underestimate two assualt (thats a single Damage SO) two tactics (thats more then 1 ACC SO) just that the endurance price went up and am not all to pleased about that either.

And no it seems assault is back again to TOTAL damage instead of Base in I7 , what that means is enhancement enhances your base value , while assualt enhances your total value (base+ enhancement)

So 100 damage 10% base gives 5 extra damage , while 100 damage 10% total gives 10 damage .
(easy calulation with 100% SO damage enhancement )

Its very difficult to just give a build with Katana / Dark.
Its more what you want to achieve with it .

Do you want to tank/semi tank encounters .
AoE king , single target killer .
Crowd controller ?? ..

Thats the whole problem with Dark Armour set its too versatile thus easy to mess up and make it worthless.

So beter think what you want to do with the character , if for pvp then its more single target style with utility from cloak of fear (severly nerfed by the way) and the disorient
(stil not nerfed cause almost nobody takes it )

Assualt for a MM should be 12.5% same as controller ... but yes here comes a big BUTT last time pre I7 , that i tested it was a nifty 10% base ... yes BASE not total .
(could be that my only pulse rifle attack was bugged since it still does full negative , but let say wasn´t too impressed with assualt )

Now as for I7 assualt i taken on my tanker it seems nowadays its 10% times total damage .
Haven´t check my MM for a while cause simply was bored of it . so IF its 12.5% or 15% total damage bonus its quite awesome even if the END cost is double nowadays.

Now as for additional powerpool if you have space , you can never go wrong with dark , is hasten .
Another trick for MM is recall friends , especially handy once you get your dark servant to get into closecombat and healing radius , why cause the dark servant aura of damage and debuff is quite awesome.

Still why you wouldn´t take howling twilight is beyond me , but its people own personal choice. so wont ask you to reconsider.

Yes BU and AIM is definetly a must have in PVP , PVP burst damage is always beter then static long damage .

The faster you can kill somebody the less time you give them to react , its also the shock elements when somebody is full health suddenly is dropping till 10%

So in that way AssualtRifle/Dev blasters are a bit left out , cause of too low damage with no burst tricks up the sleeve.

Once unyielding is 3 damage resis slotted , its higher then resist elements 3 damage res slotted, but if you really want resist elements for those crey bosses (with there uber damage burn/ignite patch damage) resist elements wouldn´t save you either there.

My fire Brute shielding didn´t even reduce those damage enough to stand in them , the flame throwers of long bow later on are annoying , but thats all annoying , dull pain with health 3 slotted will regenerate more then the damage it does from the flamethrower.

Energy is another matter , the pure high damage of energy is almost as a killer as lethal or smashing damage .
So it does payoff to take energy passive even if the numbers are low it really does help .

Unstoppable yes dont expect it to be used as always , but more like OH ·<put in any of the usual reaction> taking way too much damage panic button, or i can tank for 2 min button ,
If you taken Char in Pyre epic , it quite allright its a range hold and a AoE taunt too (all tankers attacks have a aoe taunt effect) , and dont worry once you gotten fireball its like having a mass mass taunt beside good damage.

But energy is always nice too but more dependant on your secondary . focus accuracy while endurance draing is quite good (too bad it got nerfed again)