Local_Man

Teleport itself is not widely liked, but it becomes much easier and more fun if (a) you use a good bind, and (b) it is teamed with Hover. The classic bind is:
/bind lshift+lbutton powexec_name Teleport

And it has some nice advantages -- you can teleport when Immobilized. You can teleport out of slow patches. You can teleport past blocked hallways. You can teleport past Rikti Drones and other foes with +Perception (a favorite trick for my Ill/Rad to Stealth missions). And for long trips in wide open spaces (like the Shadow Shard or long stretches in IP or trips to the northern islands in Talos), it is by far the fastest travel power with the advantage of Recall Friend as a pre-requisite.

I thought the PFF tanking was only used for the AVs . . . Oh, well, I wasn't there, and only heard about it third hand. I have been on a team of Fire/Rads several times, and it is amazing. We tried the Team Teleport trick, but I wasn't impressed because Choking Cloud takes a few seconds to hit and we got hit a bunch before enough of CC's pulses hit. For us, it worked better to set up 4 sub-teams of two; have a sub-team of two folks use Flashfire + Fire Cages while everyone else ran in. Pause a few seconds while everything died, then the next sub-team of two would use FF+FC on the next group.

Want to feel useless? I was on my Kin/Elec Defender once, and some folks I knew were running their superteam of Fire/Rads. 7 Fire/Rads and me. The only thing I could do was speed boost them, and then run around following them past the piles of deceased foes. When we hit the AV, I think I got off one Transfusion and Transference before he dropped -- although the Transference may have been too late.

That's nice of you . . . Most of the stuff I have picked up is from many of the other great folks on this board, with a little bit of personal experience thrown in. Each person has his or her own playstyle, however, so what works for me may not work for anyone else.

I like the Ice APP set for most of my */Storm characters (and I have a bunch). Hibernate only needs a Recharge in its default slot, is available at 41 and it solves three problems: Self-heal, Self Endurance Recovery and a panic button power. It may take you out of the fight for a short time, but you can have Lightning Storm and Tornado, plus any other pets you may have, still fighting for you while you are frozen in the block of ice.


I didn't try to make a */Storm controller for a long time because I had heard all the complaints. Then I read several folks discussing how to use the knockback effectively, and decided to try out the various techniques. Now, I love my Stormies, and (almost) never have complaints about the knockback on teams, since I know how to use it effectively. Tanks don't complain when you learn to "herdicane" by circling around a group, pushing them towards the Tank while substantially debuffing their ToHit -- I only use Hurricane in the right situations. Most of the time, it stays off.

I have Hurricane bound to an extra button on my mouse so that I can turn it on and off with a flick of my thumb. In larger open areas, I can let the tank get aggro, then run around the outside of the group, pushing them closer to the Tank. If I see a corner, I get to pin a foe or two into that handy spot. If we see a cul-de-sac, I get to unleash all the knockback I want and nobody complains. If the team is getting overrun, then Hurricane is there to protect teammates and myself. With practice, you get to learn to skim foes with the edges of Hurricane, which applies the ToHitDebuff but not the knockback.

Earth/Storm is a great team controller, but is very slow to solo until the upper levels. Another low damage option that might fit the concept is Ice/Thermal/Stone or Earth/Thermal/Fire -- just color the Thermal powers to look like flame. Or Earth/Cold/Fire. I would agree that Fire/Storm would fit the request best since it would have the best ability to solo. Another option not mentioned would be Fire/Cold/Stone. However, beware that Fire/Storm will drain your blue bar like no other combo -- you had better plan on getting lots and lots of Recovery bonuses from IO sets.

Of the build above, I think it is pretty good. I would suggest considering taking Air Superiority over Hover, however. Air Sup is a nice melee attack with knockdown . . . and while the foe is getting up, you have time to hit him with Char. And even if you don't hit him with Char, he's taking damage from Hot Feet.

Another option for travel power is Hasten/Super Speed. Super Speed has a built-in Stealth. Add that to the Stealth in Steamy Mist, and you get full Invisibility. Plus, Super Speed gives you great maneuverability for running around with Hot Feet, Hurricane, leading Imps into a fight, getting in just the right position to make Gale useful, or getting in position for using Lightning Storm. However, some people just don't like Super Speed -- that depends on your likes and dislikes. It takes some practice to be effective with Super Speed, and you will rely upon little "extras" like the Raptor Pack to get the vertical movement you occasionally need.

Just a bit of a warning. Storm is not the easiest secondary to play well. If you use your various knockback powers at the wrong times, you will be likely to frustrate teammates. Of course if you are solo, knockback is great mitigation and a form of control.

The point I was trying to make is that Illusion/Kinetics is certainly viable, but the combo has some issues that keep it from being one of the better combos. However, those issues can be overcome to make it an effective controller. Same with Earth/Kin. If you are going to use the Kinetics secondary, you would ideally have a primary that either has good AoE damage (Fire and Plant) or lends itself to being in melee (Fire and Ice). Sure, Earth can be played in melee, but there is a benefit to staying at range that you give up when you pair Earth with Kinetics. While Earth/Kin can certainly be effective, other pairings with Earth work better with the primary.

I agree with the rest of your post. A good player can make any controller pairing into an effective character, and sometimes the challenge of leveling a less-than-ideal character is especially fun.

It is kind of a running joke on these Controller boards. MM is the Chief Priestess of the Church of the Blue Bar because she believes that every character MUST have Stamina at level 20 -- no exceptions.

I'm willing to delay Stamina to 22 on a few builds, but not many. But I actually have a small number of characters without the fitness pool, like my Warshade and my Kin/Elec Defender. So I'm not quite a "true believer." There are some people who think that Stamina is optional on any build -- those people are complete heathens.

On Ring of Fire: If you were going to mostly solo, then I would say definitely take it for single target damage. On a small team of Fire Controllers, you might want it in low levels, but by the time you hit the upper levels, you won't need it for damage. Late in the game, it can be somewhat useful for immobilizing AVs, but whether it is worth a power pick for that is questionable.

You said your team is 2 Fire/Kins and 1 Fire/Rad. You were thinking about changing over the Fire/Rad to a third Fire/Kin. I would stay with the Fire/Rad -- in your upper levels, you will easily be capping out your damage with 2 Fulcrum Shifts. 2 */Kins are about all you really need, as more than that puts you over most caps. The Rad provides other great benefits: an AoE heal that does not need to siphon off of foes, a team buff that does not need to siphon off of foes, foe debuffs (which Kinetics lacks), a great ally rez and Choking Cloud -- an AoE toggle hold that works great with Hot Feet. Plus you get a 4th AoE Hold in EM Pulse (one of the best in the game).

With three Fire/* controllers, you can spread around some of the situational utility powers -- one of you could take Smoke, another take Bonfire, and let the Rad have Mutation.

Oh, I certainly see the benefits of Recall Friend, but I question whether Teleport Foe is needed for your build. The only character I use that power on is my Warshade . . . to grab Voids and Quants and dispose of them before fighting the rest. The team you are putting together should be mostly steamrolling through most missions, and you really won't need Teleport Foe. I think other powers will provide more benefit.

Not really disagreeing with you . . . Earth is a great team set, and Kinetics is a great team set. Put them together and Earth's -Defense helps Kinetics hit more often. You have a great team set . . .

But you miss out on some of the benefits teaming one powerset with another. If I'm gonna play an Earth Controller, I would pick Rad, Storm, TA or Therm over Kinetics. If I'm gonna play a */Kinetics controller, I would pick Fire, Plant or Ice over Earth.

I just think that those sets work together better. One of the best reasons to pair Kinetics with Earth was lost with that pet recharge nerf. There are certainly benefits to any controller pairing, and any controller primary with Kinetics is going to provide a huge benefit to any team. It is kind of like Illusion/Kinetics . . . there are some synergy problems with that combo, but it doesn't stop it from being a very effective controller. You just learn to work around the issues.

You have a kind of specialized build for a team like that. You didn't explain the make up of the rest of the team other than their secondaries.

Char is a single target hold with some damage. Default slotting for mez powers including Flashfire, Cinders and single target holds is 2 Acc, 2 Rech, 2 Hold. However, if you need to use Char as a damage power, then you can replace 1 or 2 Hold with Damage. Or you could go with other variations like 1 Acc, 1 Rech, 1 Hold, 3 Damage.

Transfusion: I like 2 Acc, 2 Heal, 2 Rech, with 2 Acc most important.

Fire Cages: Basic slotting is 2 Acc, 1-2 EndRdx. The damage in Fire Cages isn't very high, so those slots can do more elsewhere. I suggest damage procs over slotting for Damage.

Ring of Fire: (you don't have it in your build, but you mentioned it.) Slot is as a basic damage power - 1 Acc, 3 Damage. Its best use in low levels is as a single target damage power.

Siphon Power: 2 Acc, 2 Rech. Accuracy is higher importance.

Siphon Speed: I wouldn't skip this, as the Recharge buff will help Flashfire and other long recharge powers come back faster. I would take Siphon Speed over Siphon Power. 2 Acc, 3 Rech with Acc having higher importance.

Hot Feet: Maximize EndRdx and Damage, with a little accuracy. This power really benefits from "frankenslotting" with IOs. 2-3 EndRdx, 2-3 Damage and 1 Accuracy depending upon your endurance needs. You might be able to get away with 2 EndRdx, 1 Acc, 3 damage.

Flashfire and Cinders each have a 20% Accuracy penalty, so you need 2 Accuracy first. Then 2 Recharge and 2 Hold (for Cinders) or 2 Stun (for Flashfire).

Speed Boost: 1 EndMod should be sufficient.

IR: 2 Jump should be enough.
Assault: 2 EndRedx is enough.

Fire Imps: Minimum slotting should be 1 Acc, 3 Damage, but more Accuracy and some Recharge (for when they die) is nice.

Teleport foe? I'm not a big fan of this . . . certainly not over Siphon Speed.

I think you mean "minimize" cooldown time. You want those powers up as much as possible.

Assuming standard slotting, Ideally you want to fire off Hasten, AM and then cast Phantom Army at the start of a battle. Hasten and AM buff each other, so if the fight goes on longer, you can cast them again. The only effect AM will have on PA is the Recharge buff . . . you'll need RI and EF to buff PA's accuracy and damage. If the fight is almost over, you may want to save activating all three until the next battle.

Personally, I leave Hasten on Auto as I often forget to cast it, but that is not ideal. I have an easy bind for AM, with a macro to call teammates in for the buff.

Not much synergy. Earth works best as a ranged controller, as it has 3 ranged AoE controls -- they draw a lot of aggro, and the range cuts down on the damage you take. Kinetics is generally played in or close to melee. Kinetics works best with a Primary that has a fair amount of damage, so the buff from Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power has a larger base to multiply. Earth has very low damage.

I have an Earth/Kin named "Dirt Napper" that I have pretty much abandoned. He died a lot since I was trying to play him as a melee character. Back when you could Speed Boost your pet, you could turn Rocky into a killing machine with Speed Boost and Fulcrum Shift. While I'm sure I could do better now than I did when I started him, the fact that the Recharge in Speed Boost no longer works on controller pets makes the combo far less appealing. Still, I know several folks who really like their Earth/Kinetics controllers, so if you want to try it, go for it.

Just 'cause you may already have a */Rad doesn't mean you can't roll up another one . . . I have Ill/Rad, Earth/Rad, Fire/Rad and Plant/Rad all at 50, with a few more lowbies. No mater what your secondary is, take a look at my Earth/Rad guide, as it has a lot of good information about the Earth Primary and some strategy discussions.

If you really don't want to do another Rad, I would suggest Storm next. Storm gives an Earth Controller a lot of good defensive options and more offense than any other secondary. You get to stack stuns, with Stalagmites and Thunderclap. Stone Cages plus the ToHit Debuff in Hurricane works almost like a hold when other things may be recharging. The main downsides are a lack of a self-heal and a heavy endurance use. I am working on two of them, at 43 and 37. I have chosen to skip Stone Prison, Salt Crystals and (reluctantly) Snow Storm in mine.

If you want the character with the most ranged AoE control in the game, try an Earth/TA. Some folks really like Earth/Sonic, using a seismic earthquake kind of theme. I also have heard good things about Earth/Therm, though I haven't tried one myself. Resistance Shields stack with Rocky's already high resistance to make him very, very hard to kill.

Plant is a fun set that gets the best early AoE control of any primary. To me, Plant is a bit of a one-trick pony. It relies heavily on Seeds + Roots. Everything else in the set leverages off of that combo. It has weak single target damage but pretty good AoE damage over time. Generally, you can kill groups of foes just as fast as single targets . . . it takes a little while, though. And if you run into foes who resist Confuse (Nemesis) or Immobs (Council Wolves), you are not very effective. The pet is a little bit weak, but combined with Carrion Creepers, it compares to the pets for other sets. However, Twoey (for Audrey II) is the coolest looking pet available to controllers.

Fire kills faster, but Plant is a good set.

Earth and Ice are the lowest damage controller primaries. Earth can solo very slowly because of the lots of great control, and then it picks up a bit once you get Rocky at 32. The pet is a good source of damage. For Earth/Storm, you then get two more sources of damage from Tornado and Lightning Storm at 35 and 38. (I'm running two of them now.) In general, I don't recommend Storm to new controllers, as it takes some skill and practice to learn how to use the Storm powers without frustrating the rest of the team. But in the hands of a good and experienced player, Storm is wonderful.

Mind is a fun set in lower levels. Mind has a great single target attack chain early, but never gets that bump up in damage that other sets get from their pet at 32 -- Mass Confusion is a great control power but it really doesn't make up for the damage other sets get from their pets. One benefit of Mind/Storm is that the upper level damage from Storm makes up for Mind's lack of upper level damage. However, the sets really don't have much synergy.

In general, Controllers were not designed for damage, although some can put out pretty good damage in upper levels. Illusion, Mind and Grav all have decent single target damage but somewhat lack in AoE damage. Fire and Plant mostly have AoE damage and somewhat lack in single target damage. Earth and Ice don't have much damage are are best on teams.

Of the secondaries, Rad is the most flexible and goes with everything -- buffs and debuffs, healing and rez and some control -- Rad is the only set that self-buffs Recovery and Recharge. Storm is chaotic and fun, and adds damage powers in the upper level, but lacks a self-heal or endurance recovery powers -- and tends to use a lot of endurance. Kinetics has a unique playstyle -- it is melee oriented and offers great buffing for melee characters and some small amount of debuffing, but has no defensive powers and is a very busy set. Trick Arrow's strength is ranged debuffing and control -- and concept. Empathy is healing and buffing, with no defensive or debuffing powers. Therm, Sonic and Cold are shield sets with some various utility powers -- Therm is more like Rad and Emp, Cold has elements of Storm and Sonic is kind of unique.

Illusion is a primary not available to the Red side, which is one reason you might want to try it. My guide explains all its benefits and why Rad is the best secondary. However, Illusion is such a good primary that it goes well with every secondary. Ill/Rad is, in my opinion, the most flexible build in the game. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PERMA-PA BUILD to have a very effective Ill/Rad. A Perma-PA Ill/Rad is a type of build that can do something somewhat easily that other builds have trouble with -- solo AVs and GMs. I often switch out of my Perma-PA build for TFs, as my other build is better on teams where they might need someone to stealth missions (He has Recall Friend and Teleport.)

I respectfully disagree . . . I find that if I'm sitting around not doing anything, then there are a lot of things I should be doing to be more effective. Illusion is not difficult to play if you want to sit around a let the pets do everything, but it takes a lot of strategy to play really well. I spend a fair amount of time monitoring the foes attacked by my pets so that I can finish them off more quickly to take advantage of Spectral Damage. Deceive is my surgical tool to take out foes aggroed on squishier teammates or select mezzers and debuffers. Choosing the right anchors for the Rad debuffs takes some scanning and planning.

On my Fire/Rads, I actually spend more time "sitting around" than on my Ill/Rads. Once everything is held with Choking Cloud, Char or Cinders, I can just stand around and let the Imps and Hot Feet kill everything off.

I have never had a Ragnarok knockdown proc, but a buddy of mine really likes it and raves about how useful it is. I just can't see spending the Infl on it when I have so many other characters who could use that Infl to fully IO out.

I have tried the Ice APP set on many characters -- in fact, I have tried all of the APP sets and I like different ones for different characters. I really like Ice on several of my */Storm characters for Hibernate, the Defense-based shield and two AoEs. Ice Storm provides fairly substantial damage if you can keep the foes in its area for long enough. Freezing Rain + Ice Storm is pretty nice damage. Frostbreath is not bad -- pretty comparable to Torrent in the Primal APP set and Cold-typed damage is very rarely resisted. The problems I have with the Ice set for an Ill/Rad are that Illusion has nothing to keep foes in the AoE of the Ice Storm, so they tend to run out of it. It has a long recharge, so you don't get another chance to use it very soon. And it is a fairly long DoT power, which gives time for the spectral damage from Spectral Wounds and Phantom Army to heal back. On my Ill/Storm, I skipped Ice Storm and use Frost Breath a fair amount since it recharges pretty quickly.

I prefer the Fire set on my Ill/Rad. Fire Blast does the most damage of any of the APP blasts. Fireball is fast and mostly up-front damage, helping you kill stuff faster. (See my Ill/Rad guide about how I try to take advantage of Spectral Damage.) Fire damage is different than the Psi damage your primary does, and is resisted rarely. The other powers in the set can be useful, too.

Replace Choking Cloud with Fallout, Recall Friend and Super Speed with Air Superiority and Fly, and that's close to how I will probably do build mine when I get around to doing a full IO build.

I pretty much stay out of melee since all my AoE controls are ranged, so Choking Cloud would be a waste for me. Air Sup works as a "Get out of my face" power and lets me add a little bit of damage when needed.

I suggest you take a look at my Ill/Rad guide. It starts out with a lot of basic info on Controllers in general, and then discusses Ill/Rad in detail. I also suggest Ill/Rad as a great "first" controller, even for a player who is experienced in the game in general.

Fire/Rad is a great, fun build. I have one at 50 on one server, and I'm currently working on another to team with my buddies on a Level 50 all Fire/Rad team. The combo of Hot Feet+Choking Cloud is the cornerstone of the way I play my Fire/Rads. The strategy is pretty simple: Flashfire+Fire Cages from range, then run it with HF+CC running and Imps trailing behind to wipe out the baddies. Use Char on anyone who isn't held/Stunned. If Flashfire is Recharging, then Cinders can fill in.

However, you don't get to really use that mix until you have HF, CC, Flashfire and Imps fully slotted. That means level 34 or so. IO slotting for Recharge and several procs (Lockdown +2 Mag in CC, Chance for Hold in Fire Cages, etc.) makes the build much better. Lower levels are kind of slow and frustrating. You have to have patience until this build gets REALLY good.

I wrote the guide early in the days of IOs, so I really didn't know much about maximizing IOs at the time. I have since gone back to add stuff about IOs and made sure that the info on the powers is current.

Mental Maden is correct. Recharge is most important, as you want your control powers up as much as possible. You have three main AoE controls, sometimes one type is a little better for certain types of foes over another.

Next is Recovery, as those Rad toggles plus spamming your control powers can eat up your endurance.

Defense is nice, but less important since you should be controling groups so that they can't shoot at you. An Earth/Rad is most effective working in tandem with a Tank (or someone else who can take the initial aggro). Let that character take the Alpha and then hit your AoE controls to keep the rest of the team, including yourself, safe. If you take a few shots, it is no problem since you have a self heal.

It is hard to suggest an "ideal" IO build because there are so many options in building an Earth/Rad. I would build a large team Earth/Rad differently than a small team Earth/Rad, and you could have a solo build. I prefer to stay entirely at range, but I can see where you could play an Earth/Rad in melee. To me, many of the powers are "essentials," but there are enough options to allow for a number of playstyles. On the Earth side, I would say that everything except Salt Crystals and Stone Prison are important to have for all builds, but some people find Stone Cages or even Quicksand to be skippable. For Rad, Rad Aura, AM, RI, EF and LR are the only "essentials." EM Pulse is one of the best holds in the game, but Earth/Rad has enough other control to make it optional (but I wouldn't skip it). Choking Cloud is the one I would skip on all builds, but a few people have said they like to play in melee and really like it on their Earth/Rads for stacking mag with Volcanic Gasses. Mutation and Fallout are skippable on most */Rad controllers, but for a large team Earth/Rad controller, they can be useful -- I have them on my current build.

But I'm Local to wherever I am . . .