Liliaceae

For my opinion on the matter, check the links in my sig.

How would things change if Acrobatics gave disorient protection rather than hold protection?

I expect it would make dealing with meleers a whole lot easier.

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I can definitely agree about the AoE comments. I see no reason why Doms should be getting more AoEs quite frankly, especially when our ranged damage is low low.

I disagree about debuffs being useless however. I'll concede that End drain might not be *the* most useful debuff, but having debuffs in general can only serve to help. Are Controllers complaining about their debuffs?

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The problem is that these are probably the most useless debuffs we could get. -Def -Res -Dmg are all much more effective against mezzed foes and AVs/EBs.

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I think the End drain is useful because Doms do tend to use alot of Endurcance: Our AoE holds/mezzes cost alot of End and our attacks are generally low damage so we use alot of End when fighting. So in that regard an Endurance buff/debuff power is something that can definitely have its merit, especially for End-intensive builds like Ice/Ice.

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Running a Fire/Ice I totally agree that end recovery powers are great. But 3 and 2 minute timers really kills them. I'd much rather have Consume or Drain Psyche.

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Extra pets are a touchy issue. Personally I love that I'm finally getting a pet. My Dom is Mind/Psy and a pet helps me in 2 key areas: 1) extra damage output, 2) Something else to take the aggro. /Psy is particularly low on damage, so having a pet around will be a very nice benefit. I may even start using Mind's/* TK while solo now, since I'll have something else help me kill mobs. For other Doms though I can see how an extra pet can be redundant.

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For my Fire/ dom another pet will make it that much harder to build Domination. For Mind/ it's nice of course, but wouldn't you rather have one of the other Dominator pets on a permanent basis?

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As for the shields: I have no issue with them at all, as they're something I thought we should always get. Anything that adds to our survivability is fine be me.

Ideally I would rather have the PPP AoEs removed compeltely and replaced with some kind off buff or debuff. I would LOVE to see a debuff that lowers enemy mez protection like Benumb from /Cold Corrupters. A self-buff would be nice as well--something like BU, a self heal, etc.

I'd still like the option of mez protection as well. Besides Blasters, we're the only AT in the CoX game who has no option of mez protection in our primary, secondary, or epic. My main concern for mez protection is for PvP, but it would be nice for PvE as well.

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I'd like pretty much anything we didn't already have. Buffs, good debuffs, heals, mez protection, etc.

A consolidated analysis/gripe about the Dominator PPPs. I know it's late in the game, but I still feel this needs to be said. The PPPs (and hero APPs) appear to all be balanced as if they are providing new abilities to the AT. In particular they all have much longer recharge times than equivalent powers in Primaries or Secondaries. However a large portion of the powers in the Dominator PPPs are similar to powers already available in the Primaries and Secondaries. More so than any other AT I believe. This means that Dominators will often be better served taking pool powers or those from their primaries or secondaries, unlike other ATs who are gaining new abilities.

There are only five powers of the 16 that are completely new to Dominators: the 4 shields and the 1 debuff: Poisonous Ray.

It's true that Dominators do not have ranged AoEs, so Dark Obliteration, Disruptor Blast, and Ball Lightning bring something new to the AT, but it is not significant because Dominators already have both ranged an AoE attacks.

The PPPs also bring two new debuffs as secondary effects, endurance drain and -Acc. However, these debuffs are very marginal for Dominators who specialize in control and preventing foes from attacking at all. A foe who is not attacking does not need endurance, and will not suffer from -Acc. The foes against whom Dominators have the most trouble, AVs, EBs, and PvP foes will not be significantly hindered by these secondary effects, especially because they cannot be stacked due to long recharge time.

The remaining powers are the pets, which are not permanent, compared to the existing permanent Dominator pets. Two endurance recovery powers, Dark Consumption and Power Sink, which compare very unfavourably with Consume and Drain Psyche, due to the recharge times. Water Spout is another control power similar to existing control powers. Finally, Bile Spray has long recharge, meaning it compares unfavourably with Frost Breath, Psychic Scream, and Fire Breath.

In summary, the PPPs add very little to the versatility of the Dominator AT, putting them at a disadvantage compared to other Villain and Hero ATs.

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Any other doms on test willing to give this a try? I have the infernal mish on my 40 dom to test against.

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Quason has a similar but more lofty goal:

Dominator vs. Purple Triangles Challenge

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Bile Spray ... With damage of 33 at level 40, (vs even con?)

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Is this from your own testing?

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Check my disclaimer, I just don't have the time for the testing required for something like this.

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Cheita_Corps:
he's posting based off the numbers the devs gave us on the plaques.

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Actually it's worse than that. I was going off the numbers that someone else read from the plaques.

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_Brev_:
If so then that's odd because it's not what I was expecting to see - it should be closer to 40 if it follows the same Damage Scale as the Brute and MM versions. If you do actually have Chum Spray yourself could you possibly supply some more data please so we can work out for sure what its Damage Scale is for Dominators?

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Well that certainly changes things, but it still seems weaker than Frost Breath.

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it compares unfavourably with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.

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It's interesting that you should bring this up actually as I was looking at its effectiveness versus some of the other Dom cones just yesterday. I'm not sure what the slotting is on your examples (the numbers aren't quite what I would expect)

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My quoted numbers are rough, they are rounded numbers on my part, or approximations based on slotting, but should be with a point or two damage wise. I didn't feel I needed more precision than that to compare them unfavourably to existing powers.

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, but I will go with the Damage Scale numbers on RedTomax' site. These are the stats for those 3 powers:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> Max Ang Rad Rng Acc Act Rech End Tick Dmg
Frost Breath 10 30° 40ft 40ft 1.2 2.67s 16s 15.184 - 0.91
Psychic Scream 10 30° 60ft 60ft 1 2.67s 12s 11.856 - 0.676
Chum Spray - 30° 60ft 60ft 1 2.67s 32s 18.98 - 0.78</pre><hr />
Overall I agree that Chum Spray could be better - just a recharge and endurance adjustment would be fine though IMO - I'm not expecting a damage juggernaut.

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That does lay things out pretty nicely, and it illustrates my disappointment. At level 41 I can take a power that's not much different from those that were available at level 16. Every other AT gets a few new effects in their EPPs, APPs, PPPs. Dominators get an armour and 3 things they already have.

My apologies for posting just based on the numbers, but I really don't have time to try out all of the PPPs in less than a month.

This is a review of Scirocco for Dominators

The biggest problem with this whole power set is that end drain does almost nothing for Dominators, who are focussed on controlling foes and preventing them from attacking. A foe that is not attacking you won't miss the endurance. The enemies that are difficult to control (AVs and EBs) are also resistant to endurance drain.

Power Sink is mediocre as endurance recovery, because of its long recharge, requirement to have enemies nearby and high endurance cost.

Charged Armour is a welcome addition, since Dominators don't have access to decent armours otherwise. I hear that it's pretty good resistance.

Ball Lightning is marginal. It's damage is disappointing, less than some of the secondary attacks available 25 levels earlier. Its damage is 33 at level 40, (vs even con?), compared with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. Ranged AoE is new to Dominators, but hardly a big enticement for an AT with ranged, cone and PBAoE attacks. The secondary End drain effect is probably worthless. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.

I find non-perma pets to be an interesting idea, although there are many things I would rather have. I can always get a steady supply of Shivans anyway. Considering the fact that Domination is not always available, they could make a Dominator's effectiveness more consistent. This will really depend on the particular pets.

My apologies for posting just based on the numbers, but I really don't have time to try out all of the PPPs in less than a month.

This is a review of Captain Mako for Dominators

Water Spout seems like a nice control addition to an AT that already has many long recharging control powers.

Shark Skin is a welcome addition, since Dominators don't have access to decent armours otherwise. I hear that it's pretty good resistance.

Bile Spray is a weaker version of the cone attacks that most of the Dominator secondaries already have. Its only interesting feature is that it is Toxic damage which is not defended against, and not much resisted against. With damage of 33 at level 40, (vs even con?), it compares unfavourably with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.

I find non-perma pets to be an interesting idea, although there are many things I would rather have. I can always get a steady supply of Shivans anyway. Considering the fact that Domination is not always available, they could make a Dominator's effectiveness more consistent. This will really depend on the particular pets.

My apologies for posting just based on the numbers, but I really don't have time to try out all of the PPPs in less than a month.

This is a review of Ghost Widow for Dominators

Dark Consumption seems marginal. A +End power that does ok damage is an interesting idea, but the 3 minute recharge means that it can't be used as part of regular tactics, and its damage is not high enough to make it a good emergency power.

Darl Embrace is a welcome addition, since Dominators don't have access to decent armours otherwise. I hear that it's pretty good resistance.

Dark Obliteration seems marginal. It's damage is disappointing, less than some of the secondary attacks available 25 levels earlier. Its damage is 33 at level 40, (vs even con?), compared with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. Ranged AoE is new to Dominators, but hardly a big enticement for an AT with ranged, cone and PBAoE attacks. The saving grace for this attack would be a big long lasting -Acc debuff. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.

I find non-perma pets to be an interesting idea, although there are many things I would rather have. I can always get a steady supply of Shivans anyway. Considering the fact that Domination is not always available, they could make a Dominator's effectiveness more consistent. This will really depend on the particular pets.

My apologies for posting just based on the numbers, but I really don't have time to try out all of the PPPs in less than a month.

This is a review of Black Scorpion for Dominators

Poisonous Ray is interesting because it's a debuff which Dominators don't typically have access to. Whether it's worthwhile will really depend on the strength and duration of the debuff, so I can't assess it.

Scorpion Shield is a welcome addition, since Dominators don't have access to decent armours otherwise. I hear that it's pretty good resistance.

Disruptor Blast seems marginal. It's damage is disappointing, less than some of the secondary attacks available 25 levels earlier. Its damage is 33 at level 40, (vs even con?), compared with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. Ranged AoE knockback seems like a bad idea for a Dominator, it scatters the enemies making other AoEs less useful and drastically reduces the effectiveness of AoE controls. It also has the potential to generate a significant amount of aggro, which is a problem for Dominators. The 32 second recharge seems a bit long, although with the associated risks it probably wouldn't be useful more often than that.

I find non-perma pets to be an interesting idea, although there are many things I would rather have. I can always get a steady supply of Shivans anyway. Considering the fact that Domination is not always available, they could make a Dominator's effectiveness more consistent. This will really depend on the particular pets.

As has been noted, this thread is not for discussion of general Dominator issues, but for discussion of the changes for Dominators in I7. I understand that it's difficult to have that discussion when we don't know the purpose of the changes, so I'll ask:

What is the purpose of the changes to Domination in I7?

If you would like to discuss general Dominator problems, I'd suggest retiring to the Dominator board. In particular I have made a proposal for those who feel that Dominators have problems to try and uncover those problems as a community:

Identifying Dominator balance issues

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Cricket said : "This thread is solely for discussions regarding the recent Dominator changes in Issue 7."

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I suspect that the Dominator changes in Issue 7 were targetted at the most obvious Dominator problem: PvP. Not everything can be addressed in every issue, and I expect that Dominator PvE was lower priority than many other things, possibly because of the lower customer impact. Dominator PvE will probably be addressed in a later issue, and I expect we will know it is happening. It would be nice if a developer could confirm or deny my suspicion.

It seems to me that the Dominator changes are targetted purely for PvP. Reports from experienced Dominator PvPers are that these changes actually help Dominators in PvP (see Fishw0rk's post above). I won't discount that PvP in RV at the moment is a significantly different environment from regular PvP, so things may change with going live. For the record, I'm not a PvPer, so I can't really comment personally, although I will give it a try.

In PvE, I don't expect a reduced recharge on Domination will have a significant effect. My experience in teams is that I typically don't fill my Domination bar before it recharges, because I spend time carefully choosing high threat targets, rather than randomly spamming attacks. In solo PvE at low levels, the smaller number of attacks and lack of stamina means that it will be difficult to fill the bar in less time, while at high levels Domination is not really necessary.

I'm actually quite impressed with this change, and how precisely it addresses the PvP problems, without significantly affecting PvE. It's too bad about the toggle dropping, and I hope that these other buffs do overshadow that problem in the end.

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Are there any powers where animation time and activation time are different?

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Fire Sword Circle, Ice Sword Circle, Confuse all seem to have different activation and animation times. I'm sure there are others.

Something noone mentioned yet, but I've encountered Longbow Officers with some sort of passive or click status protection aura. Holds, confuses etc last a much shorter time against them, and nearby minions. This is a huge problem even to a solo Dominator, even with domination up they can't be chain held or confused, and can bring you down with about 3 attacks.

But this is what makes the game fun. Really challenging enemies that need more tactics than just run in and spam powers. Guess if you're on a bad or impatient team then it's best to just avoid Longbow missions.

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"He can't go to the bathroom without taking out a city block."

Now tell me, wouldn't YOU Be bobbing?

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Exactly what it looks like to me, and Statesman has a stern "No, you may not go to the bathroom" look about him.

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FYI - for those who don't like the idea because villains should look different than heroes - remember that villains already have hero options. They can create a character identical to one that exists in City of Heroes.

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Does this mean that if some hero costume pieces are not available in CoV we should report it as a bug? I tried to recreate a hero costume in CoV, and found some costume options missing, but I'll check again before I report it.

Energy Absorption appears very problematic to me. It does 4 things: +END, +DEF, Res(Slow), Foe -END. But it can only be used to do one of them effectively.

Res(Slow) is marginal because it's already done by Wet Ice and now Permafrost.

The +DEF is situational, and requires many defence buff enhancements to be effective. It requires that EA be activated at the beginning of a fight when there are many close mobs.

The +End is also situational, and requires foes nearby, which means activiting EA midway through or near the end of a fight. This means that it doesn't work well with the +DEF bonus. Furthermore, to be really effective the endurance gain needs some enhancements, reduce endurance cost, since enhance endurance recovery are not equippable.

Foe -END needs activation at the beginning of a fight, like +DEF. Without endurance drain enhancements its effect is not significant, it doesn't prevent the alpha strike, and foes suffering from the -Recharge of Chilling Embrace won't miss a small endurance loss. Enhancing for endurance drain is effective, but at the cost of making +DEF ineffective, and making the -Recharge effects of CE irrelevant.

This shows that it is not possible to effectively use Energy Absorption for more than one of its primary effects. One conclusion is that EA is a weak and difficult to use power. But I'll work with the alternative, and more interesting, conclusion that it is a versatile power, which can be used in different ways by different heroes, and which achieves the goal of having several different and viable slottings.

Since only one of the effects EA can only be effectively used, calculations for balancing the Ice Armour set cannot assume that all of the effects are being used.

Additionally, some problems with EA remain:
<ul type="square">[*]The Foe -End and Chilling Embrace's Foe -Recharge are redundant.[*]The +DEF choice supports the primary focus of the set, defence, which means that the other choices are probably suboptimal.[*]The +DEF is very difficult to use and often will be low. Tough and Weave provide a more dependable defence.[/list]I conclude that EA needs some serious changes. Some ideas follow.
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Circeus:
My preference? Wet Ice getting the DEF from EA folded in.


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I think this is an excellent idea, it solves the second and third points above. But it does reduce EA to an endurance transfer power which makes it even more marginal.

Foe -Recharge and Slow could be added, or used to replace the Foe -End, addressing my first point. Since Foe -Recharge is unenhanceable, I would welcome the ability to stack it with CE.

The +DEF could be increased in recognition that if it's being used for defence, then the Endurance transfer is no benefit.

It could be made a toggle power. This would be useful with +DEF and with Foe -Recharge and slow. Making it work with Foe -END, and +END would be tricky, but interesting. A toggle power that recovers endurance for foes in range is an interesting idea.

Since we're discussing power changes, I'd like to point out that the end drain of Energy Absorption and the -recharge of Chilling Embrace are not very complementary. If your powers are recharging more slowly, you don't need as much endurance. I think -recharge fits the ice armour theme better, so I'd like to see the end drain on EA replaced with another debuff. Another -recharge which stacks with CE would be nice, or a -Def debuff has nice flavour with the +Def.

Also, I've taken my lvl 27 ice tanker out for some missions on the test server, and have the following questions:
<ul type="square">[*] On anything other than heroic, is it expected that I will need a lot of inspirations? Taking luck is embarrassing to me as an ice tanker.[*] Am I expected to be able to tank missions for heroes 2 levels above me? Because the sidekick system puts me in that position sometimes.[/list]I used a lot of inspirations, and actually had to use Rest after some of the fights. I was running Frozen Armour (5 Def SOs), Wet Ice, Chilling Embrace, Icicles, Energy Absorption and Glacial Armour (3 Def SOs) when needed.

Even con minions and lieuts were pretty straightforward. In one case a group of +1 Family (5 minions and a lieut) brought me down to half health in a few seconds, but I think that was more just a few lucky shots, or could be their -Def. I did one mission duo with a lvl 29 blaster, which meant taking a lot of inspirations, since I was tanking +2s and +3s. If the mission had been set for 3 I would have been in serious trouble. On a team of 3, I was 29 and they were both 30, using a lot of inspirations everything was ok.

I tried out Defiance for several hours with my 31 elec/fire blaster. I played solo only, and my blaster uses a lot of PBAoEs for damage (blapper), so cannot be considered your typical blaster. I found that the health bar and defiance bars do not react quickly on Test at the moment, and I felt that this made defiance much more difficult to work with. Perhaps it's my slow computer though.

Just playing regularly, I found that defiance saved my hide on a few occasions, typically when it got up to about 200% or higher boosts. It didn't seem to affect outcome when the boosts were less than that.

Trying to utilize defiance as a weapon I found to be essentially futile. (Remember that I was solo, in a team this might be quite different.) I heal too quickly (health) when street sweeping, so defiance rarely stayed in the useful 200%+ range. I tried a CoT door mission with Fire Thorn Casters, Behemoth Masters and Guides, both at unyielding and heroic. If I started a fight with 40% or less life I would invariably be defeated, even if I popped a bunch of luck beforehand. The majority of my defeats in these cases were one-shots by Behemoth Masters. My increased damage output wasn't sufficient to bring the bad guys down before they could get a single hit through my luck. Reducing the level to heroic did not make defiance noticeably easier to work with: the health levels are low enough that even con minions still pose just as much threat, and taking luck meant that the increased accuracy for the higher level villains wasn't particularly useful.

In summary, when I solo, this form of defiance will not change the way that I play, I usually take the chance at the end of those battles, but I may be defeated a little less often.

If there is in fact a bug with the defiance and health bars update, I will be sure to test it again when that is fixed. As suggested by others, an accuracy boost would also help significantly.

Because fashion isn't just for the young girls:

Gail Forse on Freedom