Leo_G

Eagle's Claw is easy. Just have the animal jump up then onto the foe, then backflip off, kicking the foe with all four paws.

Not sure about CAK...maybe just a leap up then pounce down with his front paws.

Well we're a far cry from "Stalkers were blacksheep and only got pity spots because they were seen as not contributing much because they [blanket statement] WEREN'T!"

But should we go tell those run-of-the-mill Scrappers that they're worth even less now since, you know, Stalker beat them.

That is to say, we're basically gauging run-of-the-mill Scrappers as weak when practically any Scrapper is decent-to-great. That must mean Stalkers were decent-to-great...or am I not adding this up right?

What are you talking about?

Look, my main character's concept is, he's a guy who's great with a sword and cursed to turn into a tiger. He's not good with his claws, he cannot cut a robot in two with them like he can with a sword. It'd make less sense if he somehow sprouted metal claws just because he uses a metal sword.

And if I wanted him to be using claws, I'd have rolled him as a Claws scrapper, not a Katana scrapper. If he were a Claws scrapper, he'd have claws that can slice through robots. When he's not a tiger, he doesn't use claws he uses a sword. If he were a tiger and used claws, he wouldn't be able to slice through a robot. If he used his sword, he'd be able to cut through a robot.

I'm not sure I see what's not to get.

That's fine, if I picked a Claws character with the animal body. If I picked broadsword with an animal body, I'd expect not to look like Claws.

I mean, when you roll a katana character, do you expect to be using Claws? Or do you expect to be using a sword?

If I want my intelligent tiger to use claws, I'll give him claws. If I want him to use a sword, I'd give him a sword.

I still don't understand why this has to be further explained.

Perhaps you didn't read the title: PC Animals.

That's 'Player Controlled Animals'. Of course they're intelligent enough if they're going to be speaking with contacts, going into missions, disarming bombs, using computers and being as perceptive as a player can be with their regular type characters.

Because dogs are known to scratch stuff besides the ground to dig holes or their own selves. Or maybe I misremember wolves actually trying to scratch stuff while they're biting stuff....nope.

A cat, maybe, of course.

Meh, I'm not really bugged beyond my first pair of responses. You did point out "What's with all the dogs with weapons in their mouths?" like I'm suppose to write a thesis explaining it or something. I was and am just posting what I'd like from animals wielding weapons.

Animals are faster and can be more flexible in their body movements. I'd imagine a dog/cat in melee would look something like Blanca from Shadow Hearts II. Claws attacks would be simple slashes and bites but he also had acrobatic and dynamic moves that used the whole body, even leaping in the air and doing backflips to knock foes up.

No, I wouldn't imagine a dog simply swinging his neck to slash at a foe with a sword in his mouth. The dog would lunge and turn their whole body (reminiscent of chasing their tail) to get that cut.

What? I don't understand how that relates.

But this isn't about Stalkers before and Stalkers after. This is about just Stalkers before. Of course you're going to feel a lot better about Stalkers now, because they do more damage than Scrappers.

That's extremely academic to prove. Now prove that Stalkers were tantamount to a waste of space before. Prove that a badly played Scrapper is better than a badly played Stalker.

I suppose it's just easier to kick the Stalker that runs and hides vs the Scrapper that constantly faceplants.

No fantasy of mine. I posted what I'd want from a katana or broadsword wielding animal...for them to be using a katana or broadsword. Where the 'sparkledogs' thing came from is all on you.

I don't see how it'd be visible. You don't min/max (to a glaring degree at times ). That's the situation where a Scrapper and Brute pull ahead. Scrappers aren't any more survivable than Stalkers with just base SO stats. It's only when you start pumping out lots of +rech to heightened DPS and start pumping in lots of bonuses to boost survival did Scrappers start to pull ahead.

Everything else is based on feel. You can't see feelings.

Google Sparkledogs and the 1st result is:

Sparkledogs | Know Your Meme
knowyourmeme.com/memes/sparkledogsDec 6, 2011 – About The most popular template by Edward-Elric32 Sparkledogs are a type of dog that is colored erratically with random colors and crazy ...

Back on topic...

And why can't people just do what they want without being pointed at, laughed at and made a joke of? Let those kids do what the **** they want. But you can't, because it's a meme! Now he have to point and laugh at them!

*rolls eyes*

Because it doesn't take Arcana to calculate a Stalker was contributing plenty fine on a team. Period.

All that other mess about being a black sheep or getting a pity spot? Malarky. Maybe true before the 1st round of adds to the AT. But you're only trying to paint Stalker's situation in a way to justify overpowering them. You don't have to do that. They got their buff, no point in back pedaling and trying to prove Stalkers weren't worth sh*t so people will think Stalkers deserved what they got more.

Hell, the whole crusade before the buff was to get *rid* of the stigma that Stalkers were bad, a stigma they lived with since their inception. Stalkers do not deserve that stigma after they got demoralize, a base crit chance, a scaling crit chance and more HP. Yes, the stigma was there but it was *NOT* deserved at that point.

Because memes are stupid?

Everything memes touch turns stupid. Did you see that episode of Southpark about memes? It turned a stupid show even stupider.

PS: if you couldn't tell, that black wolf was photoshopped to add a katana in its mouth. So before, it was just a wolf with a chain. *OBVIOUSLY* it was a meme before. Adding a katana just solidifies that point. Infallible Logic!

Then don't speak of things you're ignorant of.

Sam, you can consider us friends so I feel I'm not being rude when I tell you this but...

Stop. Lying.

Thank you.

Isn't there, like...an in-game fruit pie company or maybe it was just a chocolate bar company...I seem to remember there being a billboard in RI where there's some cartoon guy munching on something of the sort.

I'll just reiterate that I agree with this too.

Not actually *adding* to Claws' animations, but after re-picking up my Claws/EA brute, respecing him (mainly more slots in 'Conserve Power' and removing the heal enhancements in Energy Drain to replace with a couple of +def enhancements), I also gave him the Leaping pool, which I hadn't before. I took and slotted Spring Attack and damnit if it doesn't just *fit* with Eviscerate! I know, lots of people hate Eviscerate, but have you tried it with Spring attack?

You've got a mob surrounding you while you're beating on the tough boss, then you simply LEAP straight up, come crashing down a bit behind the guys who were behind you (while still targeting the boss) then *FLIP* in the air for a vicious aerial swipe on everything in front of you!

It doesn't add animations to Claws but it makes one of the animations more relevant to me! And that's one thing that has really made my day playing this old character.

I find this all to be a subjective viewpoint though. It takes the stance that, a gimmick is there, therefore it should be used...all the time. Why can't stuff be there just to be there and if you want to use it, use it and if you don't, then don't? Probably that was the whole complaint many had with Stalkers before: it has Assassin's Strike so it should use Assassin's Strike...all the time.

But meh, that's rather beside the point.

The way I read the OP's post:

"Battle Axe/War Mace/Broad Sword/Katana - these stay on the same boat: they're not bad, they're simply...meh. New weapon sets just have more gimmicks, more interesting mechanics, more appeal than just whack-a-fu. Probably they just need something special, if not unique, to appeal peeps. Dual blades, for example, is not a wonderful set, but it feels unique in its way. Claws is another example of uniqueness in swift attacks and a nice mix of ranged and melee."

The mention of DB being a 'not wonderful set' but feeling unique vs Claws which is a very similar set but is just as viable and unique. That's not saying make those other sets into something like DB, but add some flavor to them that can improve the set if needed or be as subtle and interesting as Claws is. He made both examples to distinguish between two possibilities.


*shrugs*

It has been expressed that Dual Blades is better if you don't bother with the combos. The combos are there to help the guys not at the top min/maxed builds and/or unique fluff to the set. Considering Dual Blades is practically analogous to Claws, DB pays nothing except range and that its version of 'Focus' is slower, gaining instead combos. Of course, DB isn't going to get the endurance and recharge discounts that Claws gets...that's that set's unique 'thing'.

I don't see why you consider DB terrible unless you think Claws is terrible (maybe on a Stalker...). Unless you feel the range it gives up is more valuable than the extra 'dancing' you have to do.

That's beside the point. It's not that Synapse doesn't want to make another Dual Blades set (lol he's been making them all over the place). It's their dev team has polished the Dual Blades mechanic, improving its application in other powers/sets.

The problem with retrofitting the new mechanic into older DB is because their combos are greatly more powerful than StJ's combo/finisher gameplay. Yes, combos have their clunkiness and problems, but people have grown fond of them so changing it should be out of the question.

So all you're saying is you'd prefer a certain kind of change.

All well and good, but that isn't the only way...just like a 'gimmick' doesn't have to be adding clunky combos. I mean, I *just* made a suggestion on ways to add 'gimmicks' to those sets without actually warping them into something else. I particularly like the idea of making Katana's redraw for the AoE powers like Flashing Steel and Golden Dragonfly into larger AoEs upon drawing them and making Broadsword's ST attacks higher powered upon drawing them to further their separate their function. Would you have to use those gimmicks to make the set worthwile? Not unless you feel the sets aren't worthwhile now without them. But sets that are penalized with redraw can have some solace in knowing they have something to capitalize on.



...like stalkers were?

...like stalkers could have been?

I'm still waiting for the community at large to at least admit that the changes made to Stalkers didn't actually help the AT but morphed them into something else entirely. So far, I've basically been met with 'Well I like them now so you're wrong!'. Wrong? As if I said they were better off before, just saying they could have been changed to help them instead of tossing them in the trash.

But they weren't as popular and slightly underperforming? Well, the mentioned sets aren't eeking out Dual Blades, Street Justice, Darkness Control, Time Manipulation and the like...


tl;dr
Your argument reflects other past contrary statements and perspectives. They're nearly mirror reflections too.

I think it's related to the 'ganging up' subtone I read when people start responding to the OP or generally viable viewpoints with dismissiveness or by arguing things the OP never mentioned.


I'm pretty sure that's what the OP meant. I mean, tell me a powerset that we have, so far, been completely revamped and turned into a different-feeling set? With the exclusion of Stalkers since that's an AT, I don't believe there have been any, only changes to powers/a power which I wouldn't consider to be a 'revamp'.

Old Gravity Control with Fold Space? Yeah, but the whole rest of the set is the same. Katana getting unique animations? Probably the closest to changing the feel of a powerset without actually changing any of the underlaying mechanics/numbers.

Frankly, I think you're putting words in the OP's mouth if you think he meant smashing Ice Control to pieces and making it a whole new set...