Leo_G

Humans have no innate knowledge to use swords and clubs. It's all learned behavior as you can't say any 'stick' using animal knows how to wield it as a weapon...because that extends to things like anteaters, finches and mice. Actually, go ahead and say that. Since humans 'innately' know how to swing their arms around with a stick in it, I guess we need bird models with fencing swords since they 'innately' know how to stab things with pointy sticks to get at things.

I dunno. Have you ever seen a dog shake the prey they have locked in their jaws? That could very well be a strength amplified by a tool, not in its effectiveness but in its accessibility and range.

You're talking out of perception, not out of experience. Have you trained in martial arts before? There aren't any instinctual attacks except the very same exhibited by other bipedal animals and it usually involves scratching. Thrusts and punches are learned behaviors and movements because they aren't something you can do without injuring yourself. You push someone because you see someone else do it, not because it's effective (you could easily push yourself down by accident). Even with tools, you still have to know how to use it. Just because it seems simple to you doesn't mean it is or that it'd be natural without prior exposure.

But then, with your expert knowledge on human instinct and biology, I'd assume you've extensively studied the movements of animals as well so know exactly how they function, their behavior and inability to use tools and how that somehow relates to a game where movement and physics are poignantly adhered to with precise detail.

Different fighting style and weapons have different advantages and disadvantages. They don't all have to be equivalent in all aspects to be viable combat tactics. I wouldn't be able to say what advantages a dog swordsman would have over some human swordsmen since, well, there aren't any dog swordsmen to compare to so it's existence in the real world is moot. By extension, a Beam Rifle wouldn't do well because we don't actually see them around.


Do people even use nine-foot swords? AFAIK, the average sword probably doesn't exceed 3ft very often...and I'd have sworn that scales by height. Shorter people generally use shorter swords.

Not exactly. Swords are tools designed for a task, that task being cutting or stabbing things they otherwise would be unable to. That they're designed by humans is a concession not enjoyed by other creatures since they lack the sentience to do or use such things in real life.

Unless we have a smart animal that can actually create things, it isn't plausible to design a tool they can or will use without teaching them. Creatures like that tend to settle with using their environment, if that. There are articles all over the net about animals using tools, from birds, dolphins, monkeys, elephants, octopuses, even mice. They're tools found in their environment chosen for tasks they aren't equipped naturally to deal with. They did not design these tools, nor have they exhibited the intelligence to.

So, without prior examples of such, it'd be a stretch to expect the devs to design tools or weapons an animal would design for themselves as the devs are not (as far as I know) animals.

You're apparently reading more into this than most. Who suggested any of those other things? Although leg warmers would be nice.


Canine bite force greatly exceed that of humans. They can shatter bone, even of large animals with simply their jaw. But this only extends to what can fit in their jaw. If it's too big to bite, they have to tear and if there's nothing to tear, well...

Also, some 4-leggers have very flexible spines, allowing for a higher degree of maneuverability (it's why cheetahs can run so fast, after all) which extend to neck and head movement. Also, their necks aren't short relative to their head. Their necks are actually quite muscular which is where much of their jaw strength comes from.

It's may be a logical fail for you, but that's only because dogs, in real life, rarely have to fight super powered, invulnerable, giant, armor plated, gun-toting enemies. When presented with targets they aren't trying to eat, their natural armaments may seem inadequate just like a naked human would be inadequate to face the very same foes. So it's just as logical *any* creature with intelligence enough to seek out methods to handle such threats such as powers, tech, tools and tactics.

Isn't Middle Earth time-locked? So it can't have stuff from the future.

CoX is...multi-color, i-Pod wearing non-human...stuff locked? Oddly specific.


And sit around doing what? Not blowing stuff up? Booooring...

Humans, naturally, do not know how to use swords.

Did some animal actually tell you this?

Personally, it depends on the AT. I wouldn't say Stalker ATO, as a set, is needed but you'd definitely want the proc. That proc is worth anything and everything you pay to get it, more than a PvP defense/res global or anything because you can't get the ATO's unique buff anywhere else. The set itself? It's not bad, or even mediocre, but it's not something I'd say is 'necessary' for you. The proc, on the other hand...


Since no one has quite touched on this, we'll isolate the example to the Crushing Impact set:

So you have a Crushing Impact Acc/Dmg and 2 ECs (Enhancement Converters). If you use the category conversion, it will take that Crushing Impact enhancement and randomly turn it into any other melee invention origin enhancement of the same level. So if your Crushing Impact enhancement were lvl 35, it could randomly change into any of the same type of that level (in this case, Smashing Haymaker (max lvl 35), Kinetic Combat (max lvl 35), Focused Smite (max lvl 40), Touch of Death (max lvl 40) or Mako's Bite (max lvl 50)) Note: it cannot change into a purple, PVP or IO of its own set (in this case, it cannot turn into a different Crushing Impact enhancement...only in-set conversions do that).

That may sound bad for you, if you're trying to get a particular enhancement...but you only want lvl 50s and there are only 2 regular lvl 50 melee sets...Crushing Impact and Mako's Bite. So you can take any of your lvl 50 Crushing Impact enhancements + 2 ECs and it will change them into any random lvl 50 Mako's Bite. The only risk is possibly getting the same enhancement (like, after 3 conversions, 2 of them being Dmg/Rech since you can only slot 1 in a single power)...but you can always just sell those and buy the ones you want. (or just keep trying since Crushing Impacts are cheap anyway)


Looking at this build, possible places to cut slots would probably be:

-2 from Hide (it doesn't boost defense by much in combat and out of combat, it will cap AoE no matter what for SR)

-1 from Practiced Brawler...unless the Endurance cost is hurting that much, I'd just keep it to 2 rech.

-1 from Placate. How often do you really use it?

-1 from Physical Perfection. The regen buff in this power is pretty small, half of what health provides which itself is pretty small. With Stalker's inherent limited base HP, it won't give you much of a buff at all...if you had +HP bonuses and accolades, perhaps it'd be more worthwhile, but you're SR and if you're short on slots, this is a spot to pull from.

You might be able to get away with taking a slot out of the passives (so 3 slots) if you can put them to better use (like for higher slot bonuses...such as Enfeebling Operation's 4-set bonus of 1.25% melee defense and 6-set bonus of 3.13% to ranged defense).

I think that's the point people seem to miss here. Extend the same question to humans:

We've got fist and feet and smarts. If you're going to punch people, the smart ones go do what BaBs did and put on some power gauntlets. So why are there still some that don't bother and just punch people regular with bare fists? Why would some upgrade to high-tech/caliber guns while others keep standard grade?

But no body wants to answer any of that because they run the risk of talking themselves in a corner.

That's not really the topic, that was just my answer to the topic.

But with regards to that, it's funny, when I was looking up videos to that Great Grey Wolf Sif fight (the big wolf using the big sword), many many *many* of the comments made were how they actually *liked* that boss the most *because* he was cool and interesting. It was animated realistically, and outside of that game, you probably won't see such a concept played out very often so it's unique.

All things said, it does bring to light some perspective on general 4-leg rig use. People may not like what's in store for the game then. They seem to be under some disillusion that their game's image is soiled from its pure and focused theme when that theme was never pure and focused to begin with...nor should it.

There are a lot of interesting concepts out there and you're never going to stand out unless you're willing to explore them. Don't blame the creative people that you don't realize their concepts...but from the limited exposure of the one I mentioned, there is mostly positive, and from other games using animal-type forms, it's a tested and desired concept.

Lol no you don't. You don't give a **** about what some other person you don't like wants.

Hell, I don't give a **** about a Furries online game. The least you can do is not lie about your intentions.

Entropic Aura which grants the user status protection, as well as a scaling +rech buff from nearby foes as well as -rech to foes in the aura. Brutes, Tankers and Scrappers get it while Stalker get Entropy Shield, a self status protection toggle that also gives a static +rech bonus.

Did you see that video of the Gray wolf Sif using a sword from the Dark Souls game? I linked it in a previous post. That'd basically be a preview of what I think it'd look like.

Anyone that would begrudge me/others when I'm rolling out a 4-legged character into Paragon City.

And that particular one looks pretty right, IMO.

On topic, I find it rather funny how some will take a simple circumstantial question so personally, like the very thought of it will endanger their life so will make any excuse, argument, exaggeration or stereotype to discredit the topic. I wouldn't put it past someone to go to such lengths to make racist comments if only they wouldn't be modded soon after.

Despite my posting in the thread, I'm *far* from taking any of this personal as that'd be pointless. The same crop of intent arose when the Animal Pack was released, when the vanity pets were sold and soon when the next related update is released. It's obviously harmless so no point in taking those particulars any more seriously than that.

Let's just hope, when I get by rocket barking dog, I don't remember this thread and necro it to rub it in.

It's possible.

Damage Auras are considered attacks and every Brute attack has a taunt in it so...

I was under the impression Gauntlet ranges weren't static. Some attacks have wider Gauntlet ranges than others: Smite is 8ft, Jab is 3ft, Focused Burst is 13ft, etc.

Although I do believe they're all universally 5 target capped.

I think that's rather beside the point, though. The OP asked:

"While some may consider that to be the end of the line of the rig, I'd like to think that the use and steady improvement of the rig means that we'll have player-controlled animal models in the not-too-distant future.

Obviously, this is a ton of work, but Paragon ALSO has a ton of skilled folks working there at the moment. I don't think it's an unreachable goal.

That said, what do we, as players, expect from PC animals? "

If you think using the 4-leg rig anymore is overexposure or a player controlled body type unlikely is a perfectly reasonable stance (I, for one, don't think we'll ever get it) but that doesn't answer the OP, now does it?

Well, it'd have to be more than 2 alignment tokens since this basically is the same as 2 of them + throwing in the completion of an arc for you...this isn't counting the free respec you'd get from completing the arc though, but a price must be paid for the convenience of the other stuff.

The quote was in relation to an amount of stupid, not any sort of being, human, animal or otherwise.

But this nets Paragon Studios less $$$. Currently, you'd have to buy an alignment change token, then do the arc and either buy another token or suck it up and do the alignment switch over....per character.

I'm guessing you're not requesting this be a global access purchase but rather per character and I'm guessing you're willing to pay more than 2x the amount as an alignment token?

Having looked up where that image is from and watching a video of that fight, that's a perfect way to do Titan Weapons on an animal model.

A big grey wolf using a big-A sword is just cool. It even switches its grip like a dog would adjust his grip on a chewtoy or bone so it can effectively slash from either side.

Yeah, you look into the machine, a blue cost $1.75, you insert your inf and then get a message "Please insert valid currency."