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"I still need someone, hopefully someone who was familiar, or participated in the last thread to help me out! My Real Life work load does not allow for me to be the DM every day! And no-one wants me to drop out again from exhaustion, now do we?"
I think an 'overall' DM/GM (which is it now?) is important so no one goes breaking any RP thread rules. It'd be great if no one does but just in case, it's good to have the thread master (TM?) make a decision about what should be done. But a good TM would try to use democracy every now and then but having to vote on everything may get tedious.
Anyway, I'll help out but I'm not good at it (I don't even think I've done it before). I'd like my previous position as record keeper, if at all possible
"I am planning on having two threads. One IC, the other for OOC and general discussion. I plan on using this thread for planning, discussing with people not in the RP, etc. I may even have a third one for the history, a link to the old thread, the rules, and some bios of the characters. And any artwork, if we have any. Plus any other things people need to read before joining the thread."
Is this a question? But anyway, you could transform this thread into one of those but I'm just the kind of guy that hates wasting space.
"The rules may or may not need altering. Suggestions?"
Standard rules, perhaps? To mitigate the need for a DM/GM/TM, elect characters of authority to certain players so decision would be delegated by said characters but still leave veto power to the DM/GM/TM.
I like the idea of limiting characters to 1 per player until we figure out how many will apply and then perhaps 1 additional character later?
Power levels, I'm not sure how/if to limit this.
"I'd really like to have a couple of maps. One of the school, and one of the "city zone" of Lakeview. If any of you artsy people have an inclination to do that, please feel free! Or I can just whip one up sometime later this month. >_>"
Like a cityscape rendering? Aaah, I'm not artsy enough to do that with confidence. -
Quote:To clarify, Stalker MA only has the KB (they lose out on DT). The immobilize is so short-lived and the mag isn't consistently good it can almost be written off. So MA can have KB/KD and stun yet doesn't do any of them consistently well.But MA can also knock them down, knock them back, immobilze them, and so on. Energy Melee is a one-trick pony. It tends to do that well. Martial Arts is a grab-bag of effects, that can sometimes be better when used in conjunction with each other. For instance, if you stun and immob an enemy, that's a poor-man's hold.
While Energy Melee can stun them, and send mobs all over the place running away in their drunken walk, which isn't always that great for a melee AT (especially ones where they have an aura in their secondary which depends on the number of mobs in range to work at it's peak), MA can keep them all nearby.
Comparing a set that has a bunch of different effects that can work together with one that does only one thing is kind of silly, especially if you're going to leave out what else the set can do.
And if you're going to point out stunned mobs wobbling away slowly as a detriment to EM, they why not the KB in Crane? Sort of evens out when you're considering buff auras from secondaries.
Another suggestion I had MA was to make the immobilize from CAK suppress KB for a short time if the immobilized proced. That just gives synergy within the set so, if you don't want to send a foe flying with Crane you just axe kick 'em first.
...oh and Crane needs 100% KB... -
Quote:Let me just remind you that Martial Arts isn't just a Scrapper set. It's a Stalker set too and Stalkers have Energy Melee as well. I'm not sure what you mean by "should get to do it right from the start" but EM has no problem stunning 2 or more foes or keeping a boss perma stunned *and* output good damage on them at the same time while MA struggles to keep 1 foe stunned.
Scrappers are not Controllers and are not designed to do this. It takes at least two applications of a mez power for other ATs to affect a boss (even more for certain bosses and lts such as Night Widows) so why one powerset within the Scrapper AT should get to do this right from the start is beyond me. -
Quote:^ This.
We keep reading that the set "needs something" because it is "lacking something" or "lags behind other sets", but those making the claim can't define what's missing or provide any data for a dev to look at.
Just a quick reply to the argument: Like I said, I'm not good with the in-game numbers. And besides that, with all the calculations on mitigation levels of defensive sets, I've heard time and time and time and time again that it isn't easy to quantify the effective survival levels of sets like Dark Armor with regards to the secondary effects of fear and stun. I don't really see how it would be any easier doing the same for Martial Art's secondary effect especially when it's not an offensive effect like -res or -def. -
Quote:One specific thing I remember is CAK's animation time cut much shorter and this was recently (I wasn't even around for MA's original animations) and yet players still complained it was too long. If they changed anything else I can't remember but I think some time was shaved off of EC and Crane too.Originally Posted by Samuel_TowNo changes to Martial Arts animations have happened to the best of my knowledge. I could have missed something, but I highly doubt it. Either that, or the change was so minor I could literally not notice it, because the set played for me exactly as it always has as far back as I can remember it.
Quote:"Good enough" is subjective, in that Martial Arts not being good enough is subject to debate.
Compare MA: What does it have to make up for it? Only style, really. Claws potentially out does it in speed and maybe about even with Kat; BS, EM, Fire and probably another set or two I'm not thinking out does it in pure damage; Everything but fire beats it in utility and everything beats it at AoE. Does it or does it not have a particular redeeming feature that makes it stand out?
Also, Claws *does* have end/rech discounts on top of what effects it has (and they're reliable too), Axe's KB is no more unreliable than MA except it has more and DB has 2 100% KB and a -def ontop of combos, -
Quote:Oh, I think MA is very fun too. I have a monkey MA/Shields that the kick animations work perfectly for and a super strength MA/WP stalker that uses all the animations. The set is potent enough to get the job done with style and honestly, if that was all the set could do I'd accept it. If there were like 5 alternate animations for every power in the set, I'd just tag that as the set's niche: The Most Customizable and Fashionable....but it's not quite there yet.Originally Posted by Shard_WarriorPersonally, I find it a very fun set to play. That's what I personally find special about it.
Also, as NeverDark pointed out:
Whether or not you find it "good" is subjective and a matter of preference. Some find it weak, others find it to work very well for their play style.
Whether what it does do is 'good enough' isn't subjective when you're talking about only 2 100% stuns, one of which is short duration, 1 stun with 10% chance (that's about as good as a pool power), 1 mag2 immobilize with a 50% chance of an added mag1 immobilize (good enough for a Lt or below) with a minor movement debuff (although the -fly is good) and the 2 knockdown/back abilities.
Granted, the knock- powers are pretty decent but the effects overall across the set could be *better*. Heck, I'd love Crane Kick to be 100% kb for one! But whatever effects MAs has are too small to make a noticable difference or are completely overshadowed by multiple sets that focus on it. And it's not like what it has is out of the scope of other sets. Immobilize? Spines and DM do it much better. Stun? EM, WM, SM. Slow? Ice and Spines. KB? SS, SM, Axe, Claws.
Quote:The only sympathy I feel is for the people (yourself included) who are unintelligent enough to have a discussion in an adult, rational manner.
As for the argument of semantics about the secondary effects: more a matter of PoV. You consider the jumble of effects (that is usually scattered throughout *every* set) MA's secondary effect and I don't. That's just our points of view and leave it at that.
Quote:I want to step in and say that that's not true in the slightest. Martial Arts was NOT adjusted, it was very much almost entirely reworked, in the process having a FULL animation switched. ....
...but I was thinking about recently, probably i12 to recent. I thought the animations were sped up a bit when they added the 5% crit chance to Storm Kick. But alot of melee sets had animation adjustments and I'm hoping Spines will too. As is, the attacks are so painfully slow it's not easy to finish off a single target with just Lunge, Impale and Ripper.
Quote:My main is MA, I've played it for over 1000 hours. I find this whole argument silly.
In the end equation, you've got to ask yourself, what would the change accomplish? Bumping the damage of a Light Single Target Attack up to to Moderate wouldn't accomplish jack for the playability of the set. I don't need numbers or compelling demonstrations to know that.
In 1 Player vs 1 Target, most of the time MA ends up overdamaging in order to finish off a target. I'd rather have a solid Light Dmg, Fast Recharge, LOW END COST, attack to plink off that last 5% or as an opening move to keep a target on its heels while I deal with something else.
More Damage means more END, and more Recharge. That's the equation, and Castle won't break the rule without damn good reasons. MA definitely doesn't need to slow down, and cost more. -
Quote:Pretty much, yes. But replace 'damage boost' with 'something'. I never really thought MA *needed* more damage but it definitely needs something to make the set shine.Aren't you saying the inverse? MA needs a damage boost "just because"?
Quote:The devs are not going to even begin to think about changing a set unless they have solid data. If you believe it needs more damage, then provide the data and they'll be happy to look at it for you.
The burden is on you to prove it's broken, not everyone else to prove it isn't.
Quote:These two statements don't mesh. You can't claim that MA's inherent accuracy bonus is not a secondary effect and then claim that Claws' discounts are. Either both are or neither is.
As for why the accuracy bonus isn't a secondary effect: Because Battle Axe, Katana, Broadsword, War Mace and Assault Rifle all have that same base accuracy which is around 3-5% higher than normal attacks. If you want to consider it a secondary effect then it only raises the bar higher with some sets having 2 secondary effects.
Now Archery on the other hand, that is an inherent accuracy bonus. Somewhere in the realm of 8-12% or something for blasters and higher for Defenders.
Quote:One who properly uses logic knows that the burden of proof lies on those accusing the status quo. You're the one attempting to affect a change, so you need to prove that such change is necessary. We don't have to prove that the status quo shouldn't change; that's the base assumption. If you don't properly demonstrate the necessity of your suggestion, then it's not going to be implemented.
I'm not a numbers guy so I wouldn't be able to get deep in the DPS formulas but I doubt it would do much good anyway because MA doesn't lack ST dmg. It does what it does and that's about it. Now if MA could dish out some cheap, fast and high ST dmg that eclipsed all others, there would be no complaint because that would be MA's niche. But it doesn't and it probably shouldn't but if it did that would be sweet.
But as is, Claws can do what MA does but cheaper with more AoE; Katana can do it safer; EM can do it slower but with more control; DM can do it with more utility. MA has no niche, no specialty, no theme that sets it apart. That is what needs to be addressed. Or can you tell me what is special about MA?
Quote:One who properly uses logic also doesn't need to make physical threats.
...but seriously, you see the poster that those physical threats were directed at? I think your sympathy is better placed elsewhere.
Quote:Originally Posted by brophog02Going into such a thread whining about things that are unilateral across ATs (such as stun magnitude) is just going to get you ignored and/or laughed at. If you want a suggestion taken seriously, you can't have such errors in your work.
I'm the one to bring up the Power Boost effect added to Focus Chi. That wouldn't improve the damage of the set at all, just make the effects of the set more noticeable and provide good synergy with the secondary set. -
Quote:But you're the one claiming said damage boost would unbalance it "just because". Show some data to the same effect. Show the class that nothing could be added or we'll have an old skool Energy Melee on our hands.I'm not the one claiming that MA needs a damage boost or anything else. I'm saying the set is fine as you. The onus is on YOU to provide evidence the set needs work. I won't do your work for you.
Go ask your mommy to wipe your butt for you, we won't do it for you. -
Quote:When rebalanced, Katana/BS, Axe, War mace and the like didn't have any animations switched. They were adjusted like MA. To put it simply, what MA got is what a lot of sets got and more sets will get.HUGE difference between flip flopping animations within the sets and complete overhauls, like MA received.
Waiting for your data to support your claim.
Waiting for your data claiming MA is perfectly balanced. But just for some foreshadowing, even if you prove MA DPS is right there perfectly in line with those other sets, that only proves it's just 'middle of the road' because while it does DPS balanced with MA, Katana/BS also get the mega +def power of parry, DM gets the mega -ToHit power of ToF plus the well rounded heal of Siphon Life, Dual Blades get the 100% KD of sweep, etc. etc.
You'd have to prove MA is *better* than those sets. -
Quote:Lol, at least I admit when I don't know something. You however...I'm starting to see a pattern that you've no idea what you're talking about.
So, when a Claws attack lands, it adds +Rech and +End? Endurance cost and recharge rates are an entirely different subject from secondary effects. Your previous post said Claws has +Rech and +End as a secondary effect of the set. This is wrong. That is what the comment was on.
I said claw attacks get recharge and endurance discounts. This means their powers cost less endurance and recharge faster for the damage they do. That is all and it is an effect unique to that set. -
Quote:This is true but it's not a secondary effect (as that would mean that Katana has 2 set-wide secondary effects). And the higher crit rate is a start but it's only on 1 attack. Seeing as other tier 9s also have +crit chances (again, Katana/BS as well as Claws on Eviscerate) MA only follows in line with the other sets but takes its spot behind as it's only ST while the others are cones.
Technically, it gets slightly higher accuracy (the same as weapon sets get) and slightly higher crit chances.
Quote:One Thousand Cuts had its range increased because it didn't happen when the rest of the melee attacks had their ranges increased. It was more of a bug fix than a balance tweak.
Quote:Martial Arts also received animation changes a long time ago that made it work much better.
Try again. -
Quote:Well considering Buildup and Calling the Wolf are *NOT* attacks, you have somewhat of a point. Katana's secondary effect is -def on all its attacks except Divine Avalanche.Buildup, Divine Avalanche and Calling of the Wolf have -Def attached to them? News to me...
Quote:Confront, Dark Consumption and Sould Drain have -ToHit attached to them? News to me...
Quote:End discounts and lower recharge rates are not a secondary effect in Claws. Claws has -Def in 1 attack and 2 knockbacks as secondary effects.
Quote:Assuming they land.
Quote:Come back when you know how powersets work and how they are balanced.
*kicks Miss_Freeze out of the thread* -
Quote:Lol, if you want to be intentionally dense I will point that out to you every time you decide to put your fingers to a keyboard.As many have pointed out, yourself including, knockbacks, knockdowns, stuns and a slow/immobilize.
You keep attempting to say that MA has "nothing", yet keep pointing out what the set has.
You.
Are.
Dense.
Another angle to look at it for dense posters trying to win an internet argument with flawed logic:
Katana thematically lowers defense because it cuts you up with a sharp weapon ontop of its secondary effects.
Dark melee thematically lowers ToHit because you're using dark powers to blind foes ontop of its secondary effects.
Dual Blades thematically does combos because you're using 2 weapons in tandem ontop of its secondary effects.
Martial Arts thematically does nothing because its a natural punching set ontop of its secondary effects.
Quote:In your opinion. In terms of balance, the developers disagree with you. Again, the DPS charts bare this out. "Because I don't like it" is nowhere near a sufficient reason to request a change to a set.
Provide clear data and evidence that the set is broken, simply does not work or is clearly far below other scrapper sets and maybe then the developers would listen.
How about you provide some clear data and evidence that the set is perfectly in-line with all the other melee sets on the ATs its available? Show us that there is no room for improvement.
Quote:Again, your opinion. There are those that feel the set is fine as it stands now.
Just because a set has nothing wrong with it doesn't mean it *can't* be changed and just because MA is mediocre at a few things doesn't mean it shouldn't do something great. -
Quote:Your character could currently be a teen attending highschool, somehow one of your characters is mysteriously a teenager without noticing (if that's what you want) or I guess the past of a character of yours when they were in school.Question.
What was Superhero 101? Are only teen supers allowed to enter, or is this one of those "everyone is mysteriously a teenager without noticing" things? And if so, are villains allowed to attend?
But then you didn't have to be a student. You could be a teacher keeping the little'uns out of trouble or something.
Although students that are 'less than heroic' can attend which provide friction between characters, do remember the school was established to teach the meta-human youth of Paragon how to 'save the day'. This could change, however, and just be a safe haven for superpowered youths to get educated. -
Quote:Why do you force me to waste my time explaining simple things? Do you want me to explain that if you click enough attacks on a foe, he'll give you xp too?You begin by saying that the set has "no secondary effect", then go on to list the secondary effects that it has. Which is it?
The secondary stuns also stack very well with each other when used properly. If you want to be able to consistently keep a boss perma stunned, take and use Thunder Kick, Cobra Strike and Eagle's Claw in your attack chain.
Then why change it?
Again, you say that it has "no secondary effect to fall back on", but list the secondary effects it has.
Fine, I'll break it down:
Katana has -def as it's secondary effect. It's in all its attacks
Dark melee has -ToHit as its secondary effect. It's in all its attacks.
Claws has recharge and endurance discounts as its secondary effect. It's attached to all (except I think 1) of its attacks.
Dual Blades has combos. It's a mechanic the set gets for free.
Martial arts gets what?
On top of those secondary effect...
Katana has knockdown, knockup, +def and lethal DoT.
Dark melee has fear, +HP, +END, immobilize and neg DoT.
Claws has -def, ranged knockdown, ranged knockback
Dual Blades also gets -def and knockdown attacks
Martial arts has knockback, knockdown, slow, immobilize and stun.
Quote:MA specializes in being a ST damage dealer. That is its specialty and something it does very well. Knockdowns and knockbacks are also very effective controls the set has. Stunned or knocked down or knocked back targets are not going to attack you.
Why change it? Because there is nothing special about the set! There is room for improvement. Not specifically to Cobra Strike but that's a possibility. -
Quote:Lol! If you got a storm then BRING ON THE RAIN SUCKA!The reason some of us are hard on the OP is they didn't do their research into the suggestion. Backing them up by being as ignorant as them is not helping, and only gets the storm redirected to you.
But seriously, if you had any reading comprehension you'd have figured out no one is even talking about the magnitude of any of those powers. No one is talking about changing the magnitude. And no one is using the magnitude of the power as justification of anything.
Do you want me to quote specifically where the OP says they *don't* want the mag increased? -
That is an issue for me considering that SH101 was my first RP thread and therefore contained a heavy amount of continuity for my main character. If we start completely over as if none of it happened, I'd basically have to do most of what I did in the other thread over again. I mean, the major part of Ian's backstory is he loses his katana and tries to find it using his wooden sword in the meantime only to learn he's better off with what he has and cuts the ties he has with his old sword. All that happened (and the last part was going to happen) in the old thread...
...granted, now that I look back at the old thread I could manage telling that story better. But still, I'm telling a story I already told...
...and all those ties previously made are just gone. I mean, when Essex came back to the boards she made a reference to the mood bunny (truthfully, I forgot all about it) which seemed like a little tie between those characters. It's hard to just make it all go away. And I never liked that alternate reality/timeline mess unless it actually plays into the main timeline/reality.
....but that all said, I'd be willing to try anyway. I enjoy my characters enough to try retelling anything I had planed.
On a tangent, what about Supervillain101? I think you could give that another go if done right. But rather than Recluse's evil-Mc-bad-bad school, why not just a highschool on the Rogue Isles. Rather than learning to save the world, you're just trying to stay sane on a dog-eat-dog island. Training up to be Recluse's lackey is probably the furthest from most's goals.
Oh, and this gun has a hair trigger...
*fires at Blarg's head* -
Quote:Clobber was changed by suggestion from forum goers. Frozen Aura was changed through request by forum goers. If the final decision to change those was affected by said posts aside, we're here discussing suggestions. Is it your job to mitigate what we have to do to persuade a dev? Or is it your job to discuss the merits of a proposed change?
And the devs made that change of their own volition. In order to convince them to do so again, you need a strong argument. This is unabashedly a buff to a set that does not currently underperform, and it's a buff that causes a power to break from the mold set for powers of its type. Thus far, there hasn't been much argument made beyond "it does low damage".
IMO, I think your time would be better spent discussing why such a change is *not* balanced.
Quote:Highly, highly, highly unlikely. Castle hates all forms of Power Boost as it is now. -
Quote:Seriously!?That's irrelevant. You're not doing your homework, because if you did you'd see all of the mag 3 stun powers out there, and notice a dearth of mag 4 stun powers. You'd also have the least bit of a clue how powersets are balanced.
I'll just tell you, since we're 40 posts in and you still REFUSE TO DO ANY WORK IN YOUR OWN SUGGESTIONS thread.
We might as well rename it the "Vitality was too lazy to actually make a real suggestion thread".
Single Target Stun Powers that are mag 3:
Taser
Stun
Beanbag
Stunning Arrow
Screech
Scramble Thoughts
It's pretty simple, had you done any work at all for this thread: Single Target stuns are generally Mag 3, AOE stuns are generally Mag 2.
Okay, I'm just walking into this thread and the argument against the OP is quite ridiculous, IMO. Basically, if you're saying it's not a needed change, you're saying it wasn't needed for them to increase the damage of Siphon Life because Dark melee was already balanced and performed well. But seeing as it was changed, DM is simply *better* now. Is it overpowered? Well, you tell me.
If the damage of Cobra Strike was increased, would that push MA's damage into the unbalanced stage? And this is just any arbitrary damage increase. Yes it wouldn't be balanced if it did Total Focus damage (duh, it's available at lvl 2. We're not morons). If it did, say Storm Kick or Thunder Kick dmg then it's a possible other attack choice yet on a long rech.
Also:
Quote:Taser
Stun
Beanbag
Stunning Arrow
Screech
Scramble Thoughts
Stun: Does low damage but thankfully it's in a set with *6* other stun powers to stack with it.
Stunning Arrow: While it has low damage, it is in a set that excels at AoE damage on a budget.
Screech: Okay, it's only a stun but *oh wait*! Rejected! Screech isn't even in the same league as the other stun powers. Why? Because it lowers resistance for +10sec that graciously stacks with all the other 7sec -res in the set!
Scramble Thoughts: Really, the only equivalent to Cobra Strike in that it's a control focused power that does nothing more. But at least it's in a set with a secondary effect.
For MA, the set has no secondary effect. It just has a mish mash of effects like knock-, slow, immobilize, stun and Stalker/Scrapper-specific +crit. None of them stack effectively or are particularly noticeable on their own.
Does it make the set bad? No, the set is fine. But it also doesn't do the set *good*. It has no specialty. Nothing it excels at. And no secondary effect to fall back on. I wouldn't oppose a dmg increase to Cobra Strike but then I never take it anyway. I'm sure if they adjusted the dmg, the stun would be rather pointless then and I don't want them to increase the stun mag.
They could make Cobra Strike and Screech equivalent and add -13% res to it. Then it'd be comfortable to say MA's secondary effect is it's grab-bag of effects...
...personally, I'd suggest a change to Focus Chi. Make it a power build up power that improves your stuns, slows and immobilizes as well as your def, heals and speed for the duration of the effect (10-15sec). -
Blarg? You're still alive? Okay, stand right there don't move.
*loads shotgun*
...but yeah, I could give it another shot. It's been on my mind ever since the other one died. [EDIT] And yeah, Essex' suggestion about having the RP occur outside of class with maybe passing mention of classes and what occurs in them. Try that format and give it another try. I'd *kinda* like to start where we left off though rather than have to restart all the introductions again.
*aims* -
Quote:Perhaps origin plays a small role in the speed then?Actually...did some further investigation into the different numbers situation with ninja run.
IT'S JUST PLAIN INCONSISTANT!!
I've got one blaster at lvl 50 who's run speed on NR is 20.05mph...a 28 blaster who's NR speed is 20.25mph, and a lvl 9 blaster who's speed is 17.something. Now...thing is...i don't think it's level based cuz i have a lvl 30 scrapper that has the same 17.something ninja run speed as the lvl 9 blaster.
So...I don't think that the AT system actually DOES have anything to do with it...or if there's even a system at all, at this point. Still trying to figure it out. -
The only beef I have is Stalkers lose out on Dragon's Tail. Not for the AoE, but the animation. It just looks sweet. But I guess Fist of Annihilation makes up some of that.
My MA/Shield scrapper put a forcefeedback proc in DT and it procs pretty often if I hit a good few enemies and that just helps bring up Shield charge just a bit faster.
Actually, I have 2 beefs with MA. Crane kick. It only kb some of the time. It needs to do it every time. -
Shyly, with his hands behind his back, Jase scooted closer to the group in front of the hospital. He kept his eye looking toward the bridge or at the floating eye in the sky as he whistled nonchalantly. When he was finally arm length away, Jase just kept smirking to himself and looking off in the distance. His intentions seemed cryptic but innocent enough. After standing silent for a moment, rubbing his bare arm with a hand, he let his eyes trail to Dire and Acid.
So you calling your girlfriend or something, he grinned to the raptor. And whats the matter with you? he inquired Dire, Dingo eat your baby? Dont worry, youll get it back in a day or so. Despite the situation, Jase seemed in a good mood and didnt really pay much attention to the ailing congressman.
~~~~
Meanwhile, the young boy had made his way back into the hospital. He was already moving through the darkened hallways with an urgent curiosity. Still silent, he explored. For now, he was seeking out the basement level. -
My nomination:
All weapon sets.
After deleting them all, I'd reconfigure them and combine them into 'Weapon Use'. From that pool, you customize your power use yet you choose whatever weapon you want.
So technically, you could customize a mace set using combos, a set of claws with a +def parry power, an axe with -def in each attack, etc etc. -
Quote:Not really. Is it so hard to grasp Energy Aura simply repulses certain types of trauma?That would be a reason to abandon typed defenses altogether. That wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, but it's probably too late for that.
A magnetic field that repulses fast traveling bullets and large slow moving objects but if you turn up/down the temperature you will still get burned/frozen.