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The goal of Jase was to make Ian appear present when he actually disappeared. He wasn't going to reveal himself right out so you can just take the course of action you already posted about (shrugging off the threat and going out with friends) and Ian wouldn't be the wiser.
You can still hold a grudge against him as he'd most likely oblige if you cross him.
Also, I'd cut the whole 'references' thing out for now until we actually cement what we're referencing to. So try and start anew but, past people you've met, you can wave and call by name if your character remembers them. -
Quote:I guess I'm lost in where the actual argument is.I'm not "Anti-KB" at all. I AM "Anti-using-KB-like-a-dumb***".
On my characters that have KB, my claws scrapper being foremost because I play him the most, I restrain my use of KB when it would be detrimental. If I can't find a wall or corner to bounce them off of/into, I use one of my other attacks instead.
Knockback can be great mitigation and help keep the team alive if you use it intelligently. It can also get the team killed if you use it like an idiot and knock stuff into other spawns.
Characters with the Energy Blast powerset tend to be the worst offenders as far as thoughtless KB goes. AT is irrelevant in that, blasters, corruptors, and defenders are equal in this case. Almost every single low level energy blaster I have ever teamed with wants to open the fight with Energy Torrent, often before the rest of the team is in a position to engage. I run across a good one once in a while, but it's pretty rare.
Are you people of the opinion that KB needs to be changed in some way?
Or are you of the opinion that stupid players are stupid? -
Quote:Learn to separate fact from opinion. Just because you can't see a benefit when it smacks you in the face and sends you flying back, doesn't mean there isn't one.
There is very little benefit in flinging an enemy across greater and greater distances when knocking them down achieves the same benefit. At best, knockback is a marginally useful but cool looking niche ability that achieves modest results when used well and has the capacity to seriously impede a team's performance when used poorly. In many of the powers it appears in, it seems more like a penalty to prevent the power from being spammed than an actual benefit.
I'd be curious to know how KD will mitigate a foe by causing the enemy to waste time getting up to run back to you.
And what option do you have when you want to move NPC A to point B? -
Great, it was only on a rare occasion that you had issues with KB. So it's not a big deal if you compound it with "KB can sometimes be good and useful".
But in your example, I don't really see a big issue. All you want is your Alpha AoE dmg then all you need to do is get to the spawn 1st and click. You don't have to run 3 spawns ahead (which kinda doesn't help your problem as it just speeds up the team to catch right back up to you) and you don't have to go off to a separate corner of the map either.
Or did you just want to be greedy and take all the kills for yourself? I don't quite know which.
Quote:It's situations like this one that makes me feel that pro-KB players are the more unreasonable. I don't see much middle ground being given up by the pro-KB folks.
Quote:I don't see why people can't just own up to that. -
Thanks, TeChameleon I'll give it a shot eventually >_> not really a computer guy tho...
And Ess, I will! I just have no clue where to start T_T
Should it be basic info about the school? Or maybe just make a page for Ian for now to get it started...I really don't know...
Also, what should and shouldn't (or doesn't need to) be linked to stuff? We don't need links to posts talking about crap. Do we even need links to the thread in general? What about pictures!? AAAAAHHH!!
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! -
I hate wasting threads, Blarg! *GGGRRRRRR*
But I'm going to start my painstaking sift through the old thread to start gathering info for the SH101 wiki....
I had *some* info saved but that's on my old harddrive on my old PC...I wonder if I can just sorta add the old HD to what I have now -
Quote:Really, it's the same situation for KB users. Setting up the enemies to AoE them to death is efficient, no doubt there, but set-up time taken into consideration (herding, *bleh*) it's not always completely optimal nor counter to AoE KB. When it's optimal, use it. When it's not optimal, hold off until it will be. No different from KB users needing to stop and consider their effects.It's mostly an efficiency problem.
I have the mobs locked in taunt from my attacks, feeding RttC, in range for Foot Stomp and nicely packed for my PPP AoE as well as all of the AoEs of the ranged support players. On top of this, as a Brute, I want them to attack me for constant high levels of Fury.
If I have to suddenly stop, and chase down targets one at a time to kill them - it becomes an exercise in frustration. Especially since I don't need the mitigation from KB.
Sinlge target knockback isn't really a problem here, but reckless AoE KB scatter all over the place is just messy and inefficient.
But then, if your style completely deprives someone else of theirs, can you not find a middle-ground compromise? Perhaps ask them if you can get off an alpha before pushing the enemies around? Even if it's not the most efficient, efficient doesn't equal fun.
Example of compromise: My Psy/Earth dom is a control monster and Earthquake is just too good an effect to pass up. Throw another dom like Plant in the mix and that Earthquake isn't so optimal and/or negated by Roots. Well, I'll just pass on using it and lay down more quicksand and my own AoE immobilize while the Plant confuses everything. That's a compromise that I didn't even have to discuss out. Even more negotiations are possible with reasonable players. -
<QR>
Another solution to dealing with KB users that have issues using their KB properly:
-Take your own KB powers and put the foes in the right spot. Fling them in a corner so they'd have to intentionally try to F up and scatter by leaping in the corner themselves or if they toss a foe (or will toss a foe) in a difficult direction, knock the ****er the other way. You'll ultimately end up with a target that can't do crap so it's win win.... -
Quote:It's a Stalker's job to do the same and yet I rarely ever hear them complain. As an avid Stalker player myself, I just find it easier to make my precision strikes not to mention it's very entertaining. And as a Scrapper, I *use* KB all the time either to finish a foe stylishly or just because I can. Sometimes a situation occurs that just makes KB really useful like knocking a foe closer to a cluster of foes and then fighting them all at once. But that's just one use.The whole point of this thread is the correct use of KB, you seem to be advocating ruining a scrappers point in the team with it. If you use KB correctly your melee'ers won't have to chase targets, you can either knock targets towards them, or shoot something else.
Your post just shows me you DO NOT know how to use it, nor do you care about the rest of your team. That awesome attack the scrapper could no longer use would finish the fight earler, your KB delayed it. That to me is bad. The only exception to that is if your team really needs the mitigation.
It is attitudes like yours that make many scrappers solo, and many more peope hate KB. Using something just because you have it isn't playing well, sometimes it is better to not use a power than to use one.
KB is just cool! Even if you could have defeated a foe faster if your teammate didn't use it, it'd at least give others a chance to knock some foes out besides the twitchy scrapper.
Am I the only laid back Scrapper that will let a defender/whoever fight for themselves when they've got it covered rather than jump all over anything I tab to? Heck, saves me some endurance... -
Quote:And that scrapper needs to get off his high horse thinking all the 'defeating' revolves around him. You're not the star of the show so stop trying to take up all the spotlight! If you want all the spotlight for yourself, go solo on 8x spawns like all the other min/maxed melees.That is the attitude I do not get, a scrapper needs to be close to something to be effective, so moving his target slows him down and upsets his rhythm. It isn't that a scrapper refuses to press W, but when they see a group and make their plan on what they are going to do they don't want it disturbing. Also 2 seconds is 2 seconds, some scrappers spend a long time working out DPS and attack chains and would prefer that not to be interrupted.
Basically use KB to push targets against walls, towards tanks, or just target enemies that are free and make sure you kill them.
Keep your KB away from the scrappers!
Edit: In reply to the OP I would think there is more than 1 target in a group, so just leave the scrapper be and kill something else.
But for the squishies, most aren't hindered by a little KB and most benefit when it's used correctly. So perhaps broaden your scope of teamwork and just go with the flow? What may have caused your scrapper 2 seconds of dmg might have saved a squishie a few hundred HP or some END from buffing/healing the team. -
Quote:WHY? Why charge extra for booster packs when all you're doing is creating costumes? If anything, it be more publicity to buy the actual pack in game if they give all the costume parts with the standard pack. You make a really cool costume that uses a ninja helmet or the magic collar cape and try to load the costume into the game but find you need the pack, how many do you think would finally give in and just buy the packs for their account?The Add-on packs listed below require purchase of CC Full Version:
CC Add-on pack: Super Booster I: Cyborg $1.99
CC Add-on pack: Super Booster II: Magic $1.99
CC Add-on pack: Super Booster III: Superscience $1.99
CC Add-on pack: Super Booster IV: Martial Arts $1.99
CC Add-on pack: Wedding Pack $1.99
CC Add-on pack: App Store Combo Pack #1 $1.99
(** contains Justice/Sinister & Valkyrie costume pieces)
Edit: The bracket () description on the CC Lite above wouldn’t appear in the store listing (obviously).
Not to mention, I already bought most of those packs. I'd be a bit annoyed if I had to basically buy them again.
PS: the free 'lite' version can hold back the power customization, cape, aura, unlockable weapons/costume parts and booster pack parts as well as any DLable stuff released later and the ability to save costume/characters for use by the actual game. That's still sufficient content that would warrant actually purchasing this app if it were ever made. -
One other point I don't believe was mentioned:
It looks frikken cool!!!
Sure you can feel powerful by popping a big orange number over the foe's head and deplete their green bar to 0, but then you can do the same and fling them half-way across the map!! Then you can slot for more KB and blast them the other half too! -
@ all the "and while you're at it..." posts,
This is why J only has 84 posts
Even tho I don't play SoA, thanks for lookin out J ^^ -
Certainly, certainly...but I haven't a clue how to work a wiki-thingamajigger either. Can't be that hard tho, rite?
Anyway, the holiday weekend is over so start the thread already! -
IMO, it's no so much that your idea is bad but it's just ill thought out and doesn't take into consideration everything within the game's engine.
First of all, pain prevention/threshold in the game and within classic PnP RPGs is covered by HP. And it makes sense. If you have more HP, you can withstand more punishment. Resistance works similarly but on a different level and can stack with Max HP improvement. It's the general logic of why Tankers are just more durable.
Secondly, regeneration. Everyone has it but to different extents. Just because that invulnerable man took a tiny bit of damage from a bullet doesn't mean he's less invulnerable, especially because that bullet took 2.5sec to shoot and did 22dmg yet the invulnerable man regenerates 15HP every second. Also, because regeneration is % based, the more pain you can withstand and the more hardy/healthy you are, the quicker you'll recover from injury. Your suggestion doesn't do that.
Thirdly, defense is *not* only skill based just like resistance isn't just durability based:
-defense can be a deflection from an ill aimed attack or one that just isn't effective (Stone Armor and Invulnerability)
-defense can also be based on a particular shield or barrier to ward off certain attacks (Energy Aura def, Willpower's specific psy defense)
-defense can also be an attack was taken but the damage was completely nullified right after (Regeneration's Moment of Glory)
-resistance can be 'rolling with the punches', i.e. you take the punch but you let your body move in such a way that it doesn't take the full momentum of the attack (Super Reflex's resist passives)
So you really have a lot more ground to cover if you want to make a *full* suggestion regarding protection across powersets. And that idea for 'protection', while intriguing seems rather difficult to balance. Either an endless mass of minions will be unable to do any damage to you or your protection would do practically nothing vs a boss. -
None of these ideas scream "Mutant" and/or downright don't exude *anything* conceptually (you can't even *see* a passive fitness power).
Now when I think of a Mutant, I think of someone constantly changing. Evolving. So what about a click power on a long rech, that randomly gives you a temp power. What those temp powers are? I dunno. But they could create a few new powers and mix them with a few choice temp powers already in game. The charges/durations could scale with lvl, possibly? -
How long have you been playing?
Although alt-itus doesn't tend to 'go away', time is on your side. So long as the world isn't going to explode next year, just play what you want.
Also, there are things outside of Scrapper too. Brute? Stalker? MM? Blaster? Doms can go a long ways in a fight too. -
Quote:Bah, now you're making us redsiders look like whining self-righteous bungholes
As to my second Post, 15 people had viewed without comment. The first part of my 2nd post is merely my observation that Villains seem to be friendlier than Heroes. I found this to be true two years ago, and this is what led me to stay on COV so long without trying COH. Since I have decided to once again try COH, I continue to find this to be true. Heroes seem less eager to help newcomers to Paragon City.
We'll have to disown you as a redsider for good now. -
Eyes shifting toward the crying congressman then back to Acid, Jase snickered and his cute little grin didnt fade. Look at the state you have the poor fellow in? Hes bargaining with kids to get away from you. Without deviating his eye, Jase swatted the marshmallow bazooka out of his face using the back of his hand as he moved past the lighthearted child and gripped the congressman under the arm. You can thoroughly question him inside now that hes awake, he suggested, his face turned serious but only for a moment as the grin reappeared, or do you need your buddies in the sky to tell you what to do? To supplement his grip, Jase now pulled the congressman with surprising strength.
~~~~~~
Still shaking and blood smeared on his face and hair, the boy in the basement looked upon the ensuing battle with a worried look. He wiped the blood from his eyes as he pushed himself up on his knees. The only thing left he could do was get away.
Raising up his right arm, the boy raised his hand with his palm opened to the ceiling yet he kept his head looking toward the ground. He held his arm up for a couple of seconds before quickly bringing it down and slapped his palm to the floor again. He lay still a long moment before crawling to the nearest wall and pulling himself up to limp through the broken doorway. -
Quote:Is the dmg buff from Shields really that great? I know the values of AAO (as I have a shield of every AT but only 1 of each) but I didn't think it'd make the difference I was feeling. Or maybe it's his approach. He tends to focus on the hard target, being fed dmg bonuses from the weaker foes around him, then turns the easier foes last.That doesn't reflect my experience at all. I have a level 50 Martial Arts/Invulnerability Scrapper, and of ALL the Scrappers I have, she's the one who farts around with enemies the longest and the one who always seems to hit the weakest. My Katana or Broadsword Scrappers so much as sneeze and spawns dissolve, my Claws Scrapper presses home the attack and enemies melt away in mere moments and even my gosh-dang DARK Scrapper smites things into non-existence. My Martial Arts Scrappers, though... They just kick and kick and kick and kick.
Granted, I've had a Shield Scrapper, and I know how much that helps, between Shield Charge and Against All Odds, the damage is obscene, especially with a high-damage primary. But that's Shield Defence, not Martial Arts.
The only other MA character I have is a mid lvl MA/WP stalker and she can handle foes just as well although one at a time. Do you really think MA needs a dmg buff considering the DPS it's capable of (barring the secondary affects it and other sets have)?
Most of the suggestions here for MA's effect don't increase dmg or even dmg/end ratios so sort of confused at where we all stand on the subject.
(has the thread come full circle yet? I've already been on the 'leave MA alone' opposition and now I'm approaching that side) -
Quote:Kinda the point though, don't you think? MA, currently, doesn't *need* those effects. I just got off playing my MA/SD scrapper and I'm still blown away at how hard his attacks can hit...and they're frikken fast and stylish too! He's only 38 and doesn't have one with the shield nor much IOs slotted and he's quite satisfying.Originally Posted by Samuel_TowAnd here's the thing even with Criticals - they're nice, but Scrappers are designed to work WITHOUT them. As such, everyone is safe to ignore Criticals even exist, because they're not propping up the AT. Yes, occasionally you do score that awesome Build Up + Head Splitter Critical that makes you feel like you almost split the world in half, but most of the time it fires on lowly minions or enemies low on health, or doesn't fire at all. It's total contribution is actually pretty negligible.
However, that doesn't dismiss the fact that MA seems to be cheated on the possible secondary effects available to other sets. -
I guess it would depend on what effects we're talking about here. But as is now, you don't *need* the stun to proc to be useful but when it does, it's nice. You don't *need* the kb/kd to proc but when it doesn't, you frown. (and aside, you probably won't care if the immobilize procs or not)
What effects would be appropriate to this suggestion for MA anyway?
-Stun, yeah perhaps in at least 1 extra attack
-KB/KD/KU of course and definitly KD in EC
-Immobilize I guess
-Hold perhaps if aimed at the gut could fit in Crane
-Sleep, might fit in Cobra as a sort of 'judo chop' unconscious slap
-resist would be cool in Cobra
-Dmg could be spread in alot of the attacks as a kind of 'martial arts bout' attacking the enemy's attacks
-ToHit I think it'd be fitting in DT as you're kind of ducking to make the attack and slipping up the foe unexpectedly
-slow movement could also be spread through various attacks
For the debuffs, if -dmg and -slow is spread through all the attacks, you'll probably have the chance of debuffing one or the other if not both so long as you're attacking the enemy. The -ToHit would fit well in DT because, so long as 1 foe is debuffed that's more chances of you not being hit ontop of them possibly being on their rear end. The -res in cobra, so long as you're using it often to mitigate damage, there's the possibility it'll increase the damage of your other attacks over time.
So yeah, you wouldn't rely on them procing but would be there to enhance your survival if you're using the attacks properly. -
Jase grinned and giggled to himself at Dires response. He tried to quiet himself by covering his laugh with the back of his hand but the chuckle just seeped out through his teeth. He stopped laughed to himself long enough to notice Dire flying past him toward the hospital. Geez, it was a joke, he huffed after her before she disappeared through the open doors.
I hate Paragon, Jase pouted, turning back to the group standing outside the hospital. You try and do anyone a favor around here, like lightening the mood with a joke or shadowporting them to the hospital and what do you get? Nothing. Actually turning to Acid and the congressman he continued his conversation with hand gestures and all, But thats better than the other crap they complain about. Am I right? Its either Waah! Stop resisting arrest! or Boo hoo! You killed too many hostages!. Its bad enough they complain about every little street block you blow up or a building arson here and there but even when you try doing something good, like rescue someone they still curse your name sure you turn them over to someone even worse than you rescued them from but *still*!...
Jase kept raising his voice when the noise and music about them got louder and kept swatting a hand at the struggling man in Acids grip to keep him calmed down but apparently hed have none of that which was made clear by all the gasping and hoarse pleas for help he was scratching out.
Quote:With crossed arms and a blank face, Jase stared at the helpless man silently for a moment before shifting his eye up to Acid. Hmmm, it seems he doesnt like you very much. Maybe you should hand him over to me instead. As he made the suggestion, Jase reached a hand toward the congressman in an attempt to remove him from Acids custody.Originally Posted by Congressman Alistair Wolfe"Hey... killed a sena... spinal... a lot of pa... help me!"
~~~~~
WAAAAAIT!
A tiny shout came from behind Dire as she prepared to burst into the barricade and then a small figure rushed between her and the door. The boy that had been creeping around in the dark halls stood before the magic ensorcelled fists of Dire with his arms spread in an attempt to halt the attack.
It was all over in a flash and the boy was sent flying through the shattered door, blood speedily spilling from his shredded body. His body lay motionless for a long moment while his brain registered the shock of the attack before his body twitched in pain. Still shaking, the boy struggled to prop his body up on an arm.
d .dont kill them he rasped while still wincing in pain. -
Quote:
Part of me even feels a lot could be solved with a purely aesthetic facelift on the set. Lock BaB in a room with a bunch of Bruce Lee DVDs, and don't let him out until he's absorbed enough to put something together that does the moniker "Martial Arts" better justice. Quote:I don't know if that is really practical, but it would at least be fun, and MA has basically had to survive mainly on being fun to look until now anyway.
But having a plethora of secondary effects sounds like an interesting approach. Basically, just add a few effects, balance their chances and you've got something interesting.
What about focus chi increasing the proc chance for all the MA attacks? So a 10% chance of stun becomes 20%, a 60% chance of KB becomes capped at 100% and so on. Probably not possible but would be pretty cool if it did. I guess you'd just add a duplicate proc that only occurs while in chi mode that mathematically works out to be statistically double the percentage chance?