Leo_G
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Posts
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Ever get that demo-record done there, Claws? I'm just curious to see some high level dark armor usage.
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Quote:I'm *pretty* sure you're counting the smashing damage of Thunder Strike in the AoE. It probably does 61 smashing dmg to the foe you target and 58 energy dmg the target and all the foes around it (but I'm not looking at the numbers but I'm sure that's where you're mistaken). Common mistake.
I'm not sure where you're getting your data but at level 50 Spine Burst does 72.8 base damage (55.1+4.45x4) while Thunder Strike does 119.9 (61.2+58.7). That's a pretty significant difference in damage (40%) for a 0.3 difference in activation time (9%). Another thing to consider is that ELM has KD as its mitigation so it is pretty common to use Thunder Strike right after Lightning Rod so the mobs are still in the process of getting up. Spine Burst doesn't have that luxury so unless you're have high defense, you could find yourself vulnerable during that 3 seconds.
For Spine Burst, whatever dmg it does, it does to everything around you. -
Quote:Oh yeah, and there's also a thread called "Signature powers...for players" thread that's stickied under the power customization thread too. Just pointing that one out tooOriginally Posted by Suggestionator
I guess it depends on whether or not you'd class this idea as a 'customization'. If a mod wants to move it, so be it.
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I always have trouble with names. Some people are just lucky and can name stuff well. Others just don't and I'm one of those. Someone above said all you need is creativity, cleverness and patience; well some might lack one of those so coming to the name portion of the creation process is often the more frustrating part.
The methods I use are:
-Don't be so serious. Most of the times, just a generic-y name or an obscure one you pulled from a name generator doesn't ruin the character's concept. It doesn't need to be a joke name but you also don't need one dripping with symbolism and drama.
-Save. Now we can save power choices and costumes. So you can create a character and come back later when you've thought of a name. Granted, most of the time when I'm making a character I'd rather not put off playing because I can't think of a name...some people only have a certain amount of time allotted to play, afterall.
-Use the real name. Because it's easier to name your character Eli Mason and then use a badge/title to make it super. So Eli Mason the Mongoose or some such isn't so bad and it's easier to change a real name because you can just change the spelling or add a middle name (Ely Masion, Eli S. Mason, etc). However, you have to have a badge/title in mind to really make it sound good.
I still think the devs could add things to give more options in naming. I suggested a one-time-at-creation, self genericizing name that you can change at a later date to give you time to choose a name later. I'll add to that list; put server selection within the creator to get around needing to save then load on another server (so you'd have Server>AT>Costume>Powers>Name). -
Quote:Now you're selling Scrappers short. Now if you've seen me in a Stalker vs Scrapper debate, I'm usually the guy backing Stalkers. And while they can provide much to a battle without needing to resort to their inherent, that inherent provides a great deal more than simply crits. There's also the utility of starting a fight with 1 less foe that many discount in the overall survival/dmg equation.
Yeah... A Stalker without Hide is only very slightly short of a Scrapper.
But there is more to a Scrapper than you account for. Granted, it's subtle but it all adds up. Stalkers have less HP (they cap at 1600 while a scrapper *starts* at 1300), while their base dmg is close a scrapper will pull ahead because dmg buffs on a higher dmg mod will grant more dmg and scrappers plain get higher buffs from self dmg buffs (stalker BU is 80% and scrapper BU is 100%). Anyway, a Stalker without hide is far and away from a Scrapper. Far enough, at least, with regard to effectiveness yet close enough to warrant altering the sets to facilitate a new style.
Yeah, usually people won't notice the 'damn that attack sucked' to 'well at least I don't suck' change.Quote:When it gets into 50-60 and up, then I start feeling like "Hey, these guys are going down fast! Why is that?" then I'd look to the Fury bar, slap my head and go "Duh, of course!" But 20 Fury? Forget it. I can't even tell it's there.
Not even close to a Stalker. I like to call that Brute's style with words like 'Predator' or 'Hunter'. While a Stalker will walk up to a group and calculate, prioritize and plan their course of attack (usually deciding if you want to BU>AS the boss, take out that Lt or open with a big AoE crit and then in what order) to get the fastest and least painful result; a 'Predator' or 'Hunter' will simply strike out at the weak and exposed. Since EA has unsuppressed stealth, it's usually picking off the guys near the edges (they'd probably shoot at you from range anyway if you just changed into the middle) before ripping everything else apart (and by then, it's too late because you've got fury and AoE ready to unleash with).Quote:I'd actually describe that as a Stalker, but it's obviously your character, so you get to choose. It's actually pretty close to one of my own Brutes, an Energy/Energy woman, on second thought. I guess to avoid contradicting my own character, I'd say it can go either way, but that just shows it's not all Juggernaut Headcrush to Gamma Crush.
Then answer this: In your DBZ example, would Vageta waste his full strength on nobodies like General Tao and the Red Ribbon Army? Because in the game, the majority of the foes are smaller weaker minions and quickly-disposed Lts. While big hulking smash attacks are nice, having 1-2 is usually all you'll ever need because Fury just makes those small attacks moderately big.Quote:I don't mind Claws as a concept, or indeed even as a powerset, but I mind them as a benchmark for how a Brute should fight, e.i, with lots of small attacks. That's fine for some sets, but it REALLY sucks for others, specifically heavy weapon sets and heavy strength sets. -
Quote:That is a *GREAT* disservice to Tankers. Seriously. A Brute without Fury is a Tanker!? Even with Fury, a Brute isn't going to draw aggro as well as a Tanker. Without Fury, a Brute has the survivability of a Scrapper, less aggro than a Tanker and less damage than both.
Huh? "Technically" Brutes without Fury are crap? Brutes without Fury are Tankers in all but name for all the effect that has on the small scale. That purely depends on what you want out of the game, as far as I'm concerned. If you want the so-called "perpetual motion," then they may very well be crap in your eyes, but then understand that by my estimate taken in the same way, Defenders, Controllers and Dominators are "crap."
But I think you're confusing 'min/max non-stop smash Brute' with 'General Brute'. Fury isn't like Domination where you can choose to use it or not. You start attacking a minion and you're already going to need to throw out more attacks than normal. By the time you've taken it out, you're near ready to start one-shotting minions.
Yes, a Brute without Fury is crap (just like a Stalker is crap without hide or crits and a MM is crap without pets). But a Brute is rarely, if ever, without Fury.
And no, you don't need 50% fury for it to 'matter'. Just get around 20%, hit Build up and it's nearly the same. More than that is just *better*.
Since we're sharing 'conceptual strats' here, I'll give you mine:Quote:Yeah, no. In no way do I find Claws to be the most iconic Brute set.
First off, what is a werewolf? It doesn't quite fit a Tanker, Scrapper is a tad closer and Stalker is right out. Brute? Perfect.
So you've got a village, its late, the sun is going down and everyone is getting ready to lock up inside their homes for safety. Then you hear a scream. Everyone rushes to find a mutilated corpse. Further inspection belies a beast attack. The men gather with their guns, torches and pitchforks to find the culprit. They span out into the nearby woods and suddenly you hear muffled screams. The rest of the group quickly move to the victim in order to ambush the beast but only a forest clearing with more gnarled meat. The men start to discuss what to do in the clearing and *SPLLCH!* One man collapses in a bloody mess. Everyone looks to him but see nothing. Behind, another falls. And another until finally, in the bright moonlight and torch flames, a hulking beast with claws dripping with blood. It's too late for these poor souls as they only have a few men left with guns and none with silver bullets. They'll be ripped apart before they can flee to the edge of the woods.
Verily how my Claws/Energy Aura werewolf brute plays. You can say he rips apart enemies with most of them none the wiser until it's too late. I guess Energy Drain is him devouring their flesh.
IMO, Claws fits Brute *perfectly* because how brutal and efficient it is. It doesn't even need an enemy throwing punches at it to gain ridiculous amounts of fury. Fury, in that instance, isn't anger, adrenaline or taking off the kid gloves, it's just a bar.
Yes, but within the concept of the set, of course. Rather than just a carbon-copy AS copied over to each set, it could just pull one power that may not be 'brutal' enough and give it a one through effect and animation. I wouldn't suggest this for current sets though, but it's what I would have thought perfect when Power Proliferation was of the priority.Quote:Wait, so you're talking entire power swaps on the mechanical level? That I actually wouldn't mind, but I honestly don't think I can agree with you as to the direction these alterations need to take, since: -
Quote:Yes, that's right. I think BaB meant that you couldn't color the toxins and the spines. Either the system didn't support it (there isn't 2 sections for choosing colors afterall) or it's a limitation that only had those work-arounds (either color the spines, or color the toxins, or have them share the same color).
He never explicitly said the Spines and Toxins couldn't be each set to a different color, but I believe that's strongly implied. Even the original post didn't talk about making them a different color, actually, he was talking about making them the same. But BaBs' stated his reason for making them different, which means he was limited to making the Toxins remain the same.
However, you're confusing the issue here. While Spines *does* act like a weapon, it is different from the *real* weapon sets. The reason why Spines has 'color customization' for its powers is because the weapon has particle effects that would be associated to the color of the weapon. When you throw the spines, you *have* to have those projectiles be the same color as the spines attached to the body (well, I think BaB said you could have colored the spines and leave the particles alone but he wasn't going to do that).
The difference here is, for real weapon sets, the particles *do not* have to be the same color as the weapon. Since we're not throwing axes and maces at the enemy, those sets only have *1* particle to color (the red pillar aura, sparks and flashes) unlike spines which has 2 (the spines and the toxic splash). -
Quote:The attack vitals combo ends with Vengeful Slice (a single target attack). So the DoT will only apply to that target, not in a cone (but it's a pretty hefty DoT).Originally Posted by baron_inferno
DB in the mean time also has two 90 degree cones both with superior damage, a large radius PBAoE combo (sweep) and a cone DoT combo (attack vitals). With that in mind, as an addendum to my original assertion, I still believe that both ELM and DB are the top AoE sets for stalkers except now we have spines following close behind.
This.Quote:A Spines character will trump nearly every set in AoE damage, most certainly beating out Dual Blades and possibly even Electric Melee in sustained AoE damage.
However, while Spines will potentially beat out those sets in AoE, it definitely falls behind in Single Target. Outside of Assassin's Strike, Spines is stuck with Lunge (its only *good* ST attack), Impale (a grueling 2.5sec ranged attack) and Ripper (not really a ST attack but good enough) to hammer down hard targets.
Dual Blades has several decent ST attacks and a strong DoT combo to go with them. Elec Melee has the quirks of its AoEs doing good ST dmg along with the AoE (talking the smashing portion of Thunderstrike, the fast and jumping Chain Induction and the focused dmg within a 4' area on Lightning Rod).
I enjoy the fact that each of these sets have their strengths and compare decently to eachother. There really isn't a *bad* combo for Stalkers...well, maybe non-NBorBS/Elec armor... -
Quote:Not really sure what can be done or not, I'm just working with what I know and using examples from them. I'd say the color picker wouldn't have to be greyed out, it just wouldn't change anything. Example: Alot of self buffs like various Build Ups, Power Boost and Conserve Power will always be the same color even if you shuffle through the entire spectrum. And from what I remember BaB saying about it, those won't change because he wants the colors to represent the buffs they offer (red for dmg, blue for endurance, etc.) not because he can't.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
The best you can hope for, if you make some BIG assumptions about what BaBs was describing in his post, is that you can use the Power Customization interface to choose different animations, and the color selectors will be greyed out. And even that, I think, you are reaching for. Unless BaBs comes into this thread and says, "Oh, yeah, I could do that", I think that's wishful thinking.
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Quote:Is this point not moot seeing as we're talking about picking animations to go with weapons, not the colors of those animations?
Note that this is about customizing and tinting the weapon AND the VFX. The problem with Power Customization in the first place was that the color tinting of the VFX was not "connected" to the character, and could not be inherited from him. Assuming that the devs developed a mechanism to do that for weapon models, then if the same mechanism is used for power tinting, you cannot customize both at the same time. -
Man, Sam, I think you're taking my posts waaaaay too seriously. >_>
For the most part, I'm speaking out of opinion but I do try to validate that opinion with examples of the generalized scope of the game and reasoning I've heard from other players.
Quote:Well, that isn't to say a Scrapper can't aim, it's just not how one would get the majority of their critical hits. Actually, my Kat/SR is *constantly* aiming because he analyzes all his foes and strikes at their weak points. However, to facilitate the concept of crits, it's only occasionally that he'll be in a position to fully exploit that weakness by unleashing fully. You may know that the weak neck section in a Crey armored unit is the place to strike but you might have to catch them off guard or push the assault forward to get the opportunity to finally 'unleash' on that weak point.Yeah, that's someone's interpretation of Scrapper criticals, but I don't like it.
Okay, I can accept the rest of your post but this part makes no sense to me. Baring the whole adrenaline thing (that's a general sense too as I'd say more than just Brutes experience this), but honestly, are you arguing that a Brute can, by some miracle of gameplay, function without resorting to fury? A Brute without fury is crap. Once you start attacking, you'll see that (needing to take 3-4 shots to take out a +1 minion?). After that point, you'll have fury. It's technically impossible to play a brute without Fury. I don't even think stopping to let your fury decay will do it as a foe will still keep hitting you.Quote:I can think of it however I want. That's my point. The entire reason I'm still arguing is not to tell you that you are wrong, but rather to defend the position that I'm not wrong in believing what I chose to. To be perfectly honest, I don't play Brutes or feel like you do when playing them. A Brute without Fury is Crap? Doesn't look like it to me, considering what my Brutes can do. Yeah, yeah, they're better with Fury. When that's actually needed, it builds up on its own. I don't play my Brutes like a rollercoaster of adrenaline, and if the game forced me, I wouldn't be able to play them at all. You are free to play how you choose to play, but understand that so am I.
The adrenaline thing comes *after* that. I suppose if you take 1-3 min breaks between fights, you can completely eliminate that factor but I don't even do that on my doms. They're more apt to adrenaline rushes that Brutes because of domination.
What sense does it make to land-lock Brutes' sets? Effect. While I wouldn't protest alternate animations for powers, I wouldn't want them AT specific. But a different power with its own effect would be in the same vein as giving Stalkers Assassin Strike. It facilitates a concept and style that differentiates it from the other 3 melees.Quote:Furthermore, if they chose to give alternate, "more smashy" attacks for certain melee powersets, what sense does it make for them to land-lock them on a Brute, rather than tossing them into the general custom animations pool for everyone to use? Sure, you view your Brutes as low-brow bruisers and your Scrappers as able fighters. That's perfectly fine, and you'd be perfectly capable of choosing the animations that represent that and go with it. But why should I be lumped together with your tastes and forced to play things out the same when I disagree? Why shouldn't I be allowed to pick the animations that would fit my character concept as I have designed it?
I wouldn't say it makes it impossible, you just have to build those brutes differently. But with regards to future sets, I'd like them to take the Claws route. That set is certainly brutal and I'm not just talking about Spin.Quote:Oh, well indeed, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. As you've mentioned yourself, this has the unfortunate implication of shafting some sets and outright making others impossible. And I don't believe it needed to. -
Quote:I think you're taking my words a little too literally...but then I probably didn't word my post well...oh well.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Much in the same way, a Scrapper does not get to choose when he will aim for the eyes and look to score critical hits. The only way a Scapper can get a critical is by random chance on a random attack at some point. You could say that he's aiming but missing, but then that just means he's aiming at vital points all the time anyway, which would make that his status quo and, as such, make criticals still just as random and not dependent on choice to score. In practice and in mechanics, Scrappers score criticals not because they aim to score them or because they're very accurate, but simply because blind luck lands their hits in the right place. The fact that higher accuracy does not make critical hits more likely is an easy example of this.
Even something as simple as Vigilance has the same problem. A Defender tries harder in the face of adversity, but that Defender has no way to decide when this adversity is. He can only try harder when someone is low on health, even if that someone is actually perfectly fine at that level of health. A Defender can also not try harder if the situation is visibly really bad, but people haven't dropped dead yet. He has no control over his destiny, yet we accept this.
Why, then, do we not accept the same for a Brute - that the abstract of the mechanic can model someone like, say, Superman, who will never unleash his full power unless he realises it's absolutely necessary? The mechanic is not a perfect example of this, no, but neither is it a perfect example of anger, either, because, speaking for me, at least, the things that make me angry tend to make me blow up up-front without any process of becoming more and more angry. Yes, yes, I'm aware that "madder Hulk get, stronger Hulk become," but even THAT is not realistic, if we're really looking of realistic depictions of human interaction. It's an abstract concept, and it ought to be viewed in an abstract sense.
I'm not sure that's a good road to take, trying to infer AT design from the meaning of the word. For one thing, a "Tanker" is either someone who drives a tank or a large vehicle or vessel designed to carry large quantities of liquid. The connotation of the name comes from the word's similarity to the word "tank," in the sense of armoured combat vehicle, even despite the fact that real-life tanks are not designed to take damage instead of other ground troops so much as to give their main gun enough protection to be out in open country and for the crew of that gun to not die instantly. A true "tank" if we wanted to go by that concept, would be someone who's incredibly dangerous yet incredibly hard to kill, but suffering mobility limitations. Because of the abstract nature of player classes and the needs for balance in design, our "tanks" are incredibly tough, designed to be hit first and foremost and not designed to be very dangerous. As such, the meaning of the term "Tanker" is less derived from the meaning of the actual word "tanker" and more with the connotations of what the class usually called by a similar name does in other RPGs.
As such, branding a Brute as clumsy and inelegant because of what the word "brute" means is a bad path to take.
No, I can very much deny that a Brute excels at a specific attack type. From what you mentioned, Stone Melee is brute force indeed, but Claws very much is not. It's speed, and, at least to my eyes, precision. In fact, it's LESS strength by design, as it deals less damage and costs less endurance. Dual Blades are not brutish, either, nor is, to be honest, Dark Melee. Or, heck, Fiery Melee. And while Brutes no longer have it, Ice Melee wasn't very thuggish, either. And I don't see why it has to be.
Brutes are designed to equate time in combat with damage, and are furthermore designed to equate speed with damage. Time in combat could be achieved by being too tough to kill or just plain too hard to hit and speed is just the result of a no-accountability mechanic. Furthermore, "more damage" does not have to imply "more strength" or "more power" or indeed even "more determination." It can easily imply more focus, less restraint or, hell, even more fun.
This mechanic could easily describe a character who doesn't take anything seriously and always approaches every fight like a joke, but because he actually holds tremendous power, he has vast reserves to call upon when his enemies prove to be tougher than they look. Yes, I'm aware how people play Brutes. The way I play them, I have the most Fury in the situations where the fight is the toughest and my enemies the most numerous.
*edit*
I should also note that I am not a fan of how small attacks give as much Fury as large attacks and Fast attacks give as much as slow attacks. It creates a really one-sided system where only speed of execution determines how much Fury you generate, such that the small pimp slaps end up being more "fury-inducing" than hitting someone with all the strength of a massive earthquake. As well, getting pricked with a needle infuriates as much as getting your liver shot off. Not my idea of perfect balance.
1. I was told in a Scrapper vs Stalker thread that a Scrapper isn't aiming to get their criticals, it's just them 'unleashing'. The description of their inherent only says they are fierce fighters and no one can compare. Nothing about aiming. So, if anyone's pulling their punches, it's Scrappers.
2. Thinking of Fury as using your full potential but only when absolutely necessary, like Superman? I guess you can think of it however you want. But a Brute without Fury is crap >_> so I guess the 'absolutely necessary situation' is 'all the time'? IMO, Fury is simply adrenaline. I certainly feel it when I'm playing so I can imagine my character feeling the same. Exactly *what* is enhancing their attack is all concept.
3. You speak of claws, fire melee, etc not being 'Smashy' enough but I'd disagree. You only need small and fast attacks (with a heavy hitter somewhere in there) to qualify, IMO. Because small and fast build fury better than big and slow. And if they decided to change a power to interact as desired with Fury or replace a power to make the set *look* more 'Smashy', I'd be all for it. Because that would just give more reason to play the set on Brute AND other ATs. The powersets would be different in function (currently) AND form (not currently). It's the reason I can play an Elec melee Stalker and an Elec melee Brute or a MA Stalker and a MA Scrapper.
4. As for small attacks giving the same amount of fury: Oh well, that's just how the game works. -
Quote:Love it!Originally Posted by cybermitheral
Good point - didnt think of that
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Also what do you people think of a back-spin attack where the toon spins clockwise doing a backhand-swing for a PBAoE power, rather than ANOTHER jump-slam or backflip-slash animation?
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Quote:Easy. Lock those custom animations if you choose Shield Defense. I figure if they can lock costume options and powersets, it wouldn't be much of a leap to think they can lock animations as well.Originally Posted by cybermitheral
I think we've missed the most important problem with the OP request.
Two-Handed animation would mean you couldnt also use the Shield powerset.
Cant use a shield to defend yourself while that hand is also swinging your weapon. Doesnt work.
So unless there was a "Great Sword/Great Axe/Maul" Powerset that was ONLY two-handed I dont think you'll see BS/Axe/WM ever getting two-handed animations.
While more gameplay options are great, it still needs to be somewhat realistic in some aspects :P -
Only if they add robotic dragon/wolf heads with glowing eyes...
[EDIT]and a robotic tail. -
I've got a sorceress character that went from Storm/Elec defender to Sonic/Storm corr to Fire/Storm corr. Not only can she create powerful weather effects, she can augment them using fire magic! That's how she can create freezing rain AND rain of fire.
I also created a robot sorcerer character modeled after Tin Mage (I call him Iron Mage) that's a dom that basically control metal magically. I used earth control and earth assault and colored them to look more 'metal' colored. It works quite good, actually but not as fun as my earth/psi dom.
Other than that, you can make a mage character out of anything if you're semi-creative. It's pretty easy, actually. But I'd probably go the 'big flashy effects' route on a corruptor, defender, blaster or dominator (I guess controller too) and color your powers to fit your theme. -
If we *really* want this AT to work, what about several things:
The AT gets a high mod for mezzes and the chance of them occurring in melee powers is improved (maybe even some added). It's still basically melee mezzing but at least it'd be potent.
Secondly, maybe the inherent could be some kind of partial mez protection like Blasters, but able to use the 1st power in their prim/sec, the 2nd power in their prim, and the tier 9 of their primary?
Thirdly, replace the tier 1 of their secondary with a sort of wide area PBAoE -range and mild taunt. If you get mezzed, you can click it and *force* the enemy to either not be able to attack you from range or come close and attack you from range. It'd still be risky though but hey, you could get BU and Soul Drain and then bust out with Whirling Hands for a ridiculous stun effect to the poor suckers that had to close distance with you. -
Quote:I don't think he asked for a crap buff-bot build.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Unsassan's Strike!
Yeah, the only way I see this happening, honestly, is a second build "dedicated" to it - and I don't think the med pool's strong enough to make it worth it, really. A team-support-bot, perhaps, that someone's not really playing (call it 1 1/2 boxing,) maybe. But actually trying to *play* it? er...
If you want an invisi-heal redside, go with a Corruptor, get Stealth and a Stealth IO (plus stock up on salvage for the empowerment station for even more invisible goodness.) It'd be much more effective, I think.
If you're absolutely dedicated to the idea, here's a build (no enh set up in it) purely for lulz. (And no, not with a lot of thought in it.) It's not necessarily efficient, and I can't see it as fun (you have, after all, one heal, a rez, and stimulant,) but it is invisible.
Why is it so difficult to comprehend a character that has generalized abilities rather than specialized purpose? The OP noticed when a team wipes, he's usually the last one standing. The options have been laid before you and it's up to you if you want to take them all or some and which.
I consider my MA/Shield a support scrapper because he has Grant Cover, leadership toggles and some of the medicine pool. He may not be uber powerful like alot of other scrappers but he can still solo 3x spawns and contribute a lot of damage on a team. -
Quote:The only problem with the 'pulling your punches' deal is you don't have a choice. You're *forced* to pull your punches and if you don't want to pull your punches you gotta keep flinging attacks.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't know where you're getting all of this "clumsy" business. Is it somewhere in the character description and I just missed it? Brutes are defined as powerful, to the best that I can find, and that does not entail clumsiness in itself. In fact, depending on how you read Fury, it could mean a few things, itself. I keep quoting Zero on this, but as the line goes: Time to get serious. A Brute is easily viewed as someone who is constantly displaying elegance by pulling his punches so as not to exert himself, but who WILL hit hard if things will just not go down.
And it's just a stylized comparison and mostly an over-generalization. But for the most part, a Brute, by definition, is a character that *relies* on purely harsh physical (brute) force. Instead of putting away the sledge hammer in lieu of the screwdriver, a Brute will smash on with the hammer.
I never said make it so every brute is a Hulk wannabe, I said replace a power more suited for the AT's style. You can debate forever on how different players play their Brutes and what not but you cannot deny that the Brute AT excels with a specific attack type. A Claws or Stone Melee brute is placed above a similarly built Axe or Energy Melee brute because attacking fast and numerous is more easily supported by fury compared to slow and long animating.Quote:All of this is to say that, no, I obviously can't claim your view on Brutes is wrong, because it isn't. But you can't really claim mine is wrong, either, which is why I want the door left open for them to be played and represented as the player chooses, rather than being railroaded into being a glorified Hulk. -
Quote:They're clumsy by comparison.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm not sure I can agree with your interpretation of Brutes as clumsy, as that would write pretty much every Brute I've ever made out of existence. I rather see them as the kind of characters who would pick to use a "brute force approach," whether or not it involved literal brute force. An assassin, for instance, can choose to lie in wait, sneak around and pounce in his victim, then slip away into the night, and that would probably be a Stalker (in theory, if not in practice). An assassin can also choose to attack the victim openly, dispatch his guards with incredible speed and precision and then skewer him in front of a huge crown just to make a point. That would very much be a Brute, both in practice and theory. A Brute does not always survive by being tough, and often does so by avoiding being hit or debilitating his enemies. A Brute does not always win by flailing his fists as hard as he can, and indeed often strikes with precision. It's a question inflicting as much damage as possible, but that does not come with the burden of doing so in the most inefficient way.
And, really, a Brute isn't just limited to the Huge model
As far as staying on topic goes, I have to agree with this. Sooner or later we ought to be getting some alternate animations in power customization, and I don't see why those can't be designed to impart different styles. That's a lot of what happened with Martial Arts, after all - the newer animations are a lot less refined and a lot more brutish. It's a lot of work, obviously, but it's work that should get done at some point, and I see no reason why it can't be done like this.
Compared to a Scrapper who sometimes strike with overwhelming power or a Stalker who strikes with style and precision or a Tanker who is more concerned for his allies than truly busting heads. The Brute would be more concerned with results than a particular style. And that's just by virtue that Fury enhances every attack indiscriminately, just hit things until there's nothing left standing.
But in Brute's defense, Scrappers have nearly the same tactic. The only difference is Scrappers have the 'focused strike' mechanic through criticals.
Your example of 'assassin' and 'stalker' are, IMO, tactics not styles and should be used in relevant situations. There are times I want to isolate a target so would take your 'stalker' approach but often there is no reason not to take the 'assassin' approach. The difference is, Brute doesn't have a place using either approach. Not because they can't or even that Fury won't allow them. I say that simply because Brutes *don't* do it. I've never seen it, I've tried it on some myself and reverted to the old SMASH, and I've never heard players bragging they sneak around on their Brute and 'assassinate' a target. Anything more is just a guise for standard SMASH.
That isn't to say 'clumsy' and 'SMASH' is flailing your arms about randomly. It's simply not 'precision' or 'focused'. It's blunt and heavy...like a Brute. And really, saying the contrary is as much a disservice to my precise Stalkers as the 'clumsy' generalization was in the previous post.
It's funny you didn't bring up the Tanker generalization as I don't think it truly captures the style of a Tanker. -
I always considered 'power styles' to be expressed by AT. It's not so much that a Blaster uses 'brute force' or 'flashyness', but rather a Blaster uses a Blaster style.
It's more obvious on the melee ATs: Scrappers are fierce strong fighters, Brutes are clumsy but overwhelming, Tankers dutiful and a foundation of reliability and Stalkers are surgical and calculating.
During powerset proliferation, I was always an advocate of (and still am) stylizing the powersets to those ATs. Rather than a straight port with maybe a little jumbling with the numbers, I always though having 1 unique power for each of those ATs that epitomize their style was the way to go. It'd reserve the uniqueness of each AT and give you a reason to play each.
It's a shame, really. Dual Blades doesn't really feel brutish to me. I tried it and dropped it for Axe. But I could imagine replacing one of the cones (or the PBAoE) with a fast activating double bladed downward 'SMASH' that did KD would help the overall feel.
Instead of the Weaken combo on a stalker, I would have loved something more 'fitting' of a stealthy surgical fighter, perhaps something more controlly like a 'Sword Flash' combo that did -ToHit and a chance to confuse.
Anyway, I thought it was a cool idea and would definitely make me want to play different sets over across ATs moreso than I do now. -
((Fine, I'll play your game. Just don't pull the rug out from under my first post like Khell did with that last thread of his >_>))
Finding your place in the world; your home; yourself. It is a journey for some, a journey one seeks to find the destination of as their goal or prize. Your place provides closure, your home peace. It is the revelation of religion that the wicked will be punished and the righteous will live in everlasting peace and tranquility. It is the wish of the mortal that once dead and laid to rest, struggle, strife, pain and fear will be a distant memory.
But for one individual, his journey is unique. A destiny. A pilgrimage. To overturn the very destination of all of us? To disrupt the tranquility of the end itself? Or perhaps to simply enlighten himself as to what that final truth is?
Any of these would be profound and glorious destinies anyone would be proud to set forth to find. However, Ry the traveler, despite the brevity of his journey, has forgotten what had set him out on his journey. All those memories lost to himself just like his friends, family and loved ones. Everything is as distant and beyond reach as the path Ry walks. His clothes a tattered mess, his body battered, bloody and bandaged, his walking cane in hand Ry walks. And walks
As varied as this world of patchwork reality, Ry has seen many a place. His young taut green skin has felt the rays of many days and his bones chilled by the cold of many nights; all alone. And yet, he never felt an ache of loneliness. Just as his past close ones were now distant, those emotions are easily forgotten and what you cannot remember, you cannot feel. So, Ry walks and travels, his whole life it would seem
Like no creature youd normally see, Ry looked like an amphibian creature. A green salamander or frog? But human sized. He had spine looking strands of hair that swept to his back and a tail like a mammal (a monkey?) covered in fine brown hair. The rags he wore hung loosely over his compact frame and the bandages wrapping his arm and chest were soaked through with red blood. He walked along his lonely path with his same-height staff, his posture pain and worry free.
Many times during his travels, hed simply forget to look at his surroundings and instead make sure one foot continued to step in front of the other and only occasionally looking up to admire the beauty or harshness or strangeness of the environment. Looking up now, Ry was among a desolate ruin of a former city, dilapidated by war and fire. Although he had seen things like this before, now it was new to his eye so he looked on in awe at the destruction.
((Where are we suppose to be anyway?)) -
What about Dark Armor paired with Energy Melee? All you need to run is the resist toggles (maybe CoD) and oppressive gloom and proceed to stunning everything.
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Quote:Deflecting thoughts? What? Psi blasts? If that's the case, you shouldn't be able to 'dodge' thoughts either. To wave away the fact you *can* dodge psi blasts, I just imagine them as psionic manifestated pulses, kind of like how Psylocke can manifest blades of mental energy that can affect physical matter. So, if a pulse of psi energy were propelled at you, I'd imagine intercepting it with a bullet *might* work.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Let me put the question like this, then: What do you deflect with this? You can't deflect everything for a variety of reasons, but what, then? Parry deflects lethal attacks to cover swords, bullets and arrows, and it deflects melee attacks to cover non-physical swords and blunt weapons. I can't see bullets deflect melee attacks AT ALL, myself, and it seems a little odd to let them deflect all ranged attacks, partly because it's weaker than Parry and partly because that'll have you deflecting thoughts
Yet again, I like your concept, but I have a hard time seeing it fit into the system.
Where the tough stuff comes in is deflecting holds. Most of those don't 'travel' toward you, they simply 'freeze you in a block of ice' or 'encase you in stone'...but then I'd suppose perhaps you're firing through them just as they wrap around you enough that you can break through them normally?
But then how do you shoot through a gravity distortion? -
But that's not fair
MA and SS can customize the color of their effects AND choose animations...