Lastjustice

No has more to do with how Batman is presented. JL batman and solo batman are often written like two completely different chaarcters. Any of other characters you named for most part stay fairly consistent in their MO and tend to stick to threats that fit their style. Such as the gap between most avengers foes and Captain America isn't as remotely as vast as most JL foes to batman and Cap doesn't need to force the plot in a direction to show how important and useful he is. Batman does.(which if you want to me show some fairness Wolverine another character who's been broken into pieces due to too many cooks in the kitchen writing him and just being in too many places. Is he a maverick, a team player, a leader...depends on the issue. Marvel atleast is willing joke about it.)

Batman in his regular books will actually have some difficulty dealing with his own rogues, then in some other book he's supposedly able to take down any super being with time to plan and the plot is often railed into making him seem useful and important.(Superman never has this probelm, if anything DC spends more time trying convince us why the story isn't over in two secs.) People are written like idiots or job to make batman seem formidable, but all does is usually show how inferior Batman really is. He's more or less Marvel's answer to squirel girl, only marvel has the sense to make the nonsensical victories off panel.

I'd be fine if they had say batman evolve from a street level hero to a guy who fights global threats over time as other posters said in this thread, as that's natural progression. I can get behind that as thats a great way for the current films to move toward the justice league, and we see Batman ramp up the tech he's throwing around to fit into the line up.

Not this Samus Aran set up whom seems go back to his default once the larger threat is over. I mean for a guy who's whole thing is he's supposed to be always prepared to be walking around with his nolan verse lvl gear on a daily basis seems silly. Batman is only as smart as the people writing him and often there's just too much plot convience and jarring moments. I can handle a few nuke the fridge moments (I laughed when it happened in the movie.),especially if they re done tongue in cheek but I'd prefer alot less of them. It doesn't help that DC always trying remind us that
s he's not super human. Can't have it both ways. (.....well they can but it definitely rubs me the wrong way.)

Hows that any different than anyone who actually has powers or an item that grants them abiltiies far beyond a normal person? I mean No one says the Flash should give up his powers and act norm because he's been powered for too long and it's making him soft.



You could apply that same logic to everyone who has an item that could be ganked. (green lantern, Thor, Ironman, etc.) I mean every super hero with a power that could be copied should off themselves to prevent someone evil from stealing it. Anything could be used for good or evil, all depends on the user. People who have the means to do good shouldn't be so afraid of screwing up they do nothing. Otherwise no one would do anything out of fear of being somehow having it turned against them.


While thats interesting, but killing people and being properly prepared are too very different things. If your life is full of crazy crap trying kill you on a regular basis then may be investing in some sort of super means is not only prudent for you but everyone you care about. If anything you don't care enough about your friends and family if you know fully some jerk like Darkseid could roll up on a moments notice and you failed to do anything about it despite being able to. If your morale fiber is so flimsy that being outfitted with some new tech or powers crumbles you then you probably have no business being a crime fighter in the first place.(and if you really cared then your mission should be finding someone else to empower who can like Shazam does.) if everyone else with powers manages to keep themselves in check I dont see why batman is such a pansy about stepping up to the big leagues if he could.


That's great as there's always going be a certain amount of rule of cool in effect. But to go well batman can just jump kick his way thru an army of doomsday clones who are even 50% of the strengh of the original because he's batman...Im sorry thats just going too far. Not to say that scenario can't exist...just then you need give a logic reason why said feat has happened. Anything can happen in comics there's just need be a well written explaination for it.(or some explaination, I prefer a dumb one over it's a comic deal with it.)

I never suggested you hated the films. I think most people around here say I think they re overrated, but decent films. I merely agree with Nolan's assessment. If the goal is to be this dark stealthy vigilante who's the ultimate human hero then he should stick to fighting proper threats of non powered to low level threats.

Having him in a world with powers makes him seem silly for doing what he's doing. It would be like someone riding a horse across country in this day in age to deliever a letter when we can just send an email or text and achieve the same end result with little effort. (the pony express died the day the telegraph was invented.) It's just not sane or practicular in the context of someone like Superman can come in and clean house in the blink of an eye. (simliar to how the original Nightowl retired when Doc manhatten came on to the scene.) If batman were alone in his universe or a period piece like Sherlock holmes then I can justify how he operates. Otherwise he's just riding around in a wheel chair for the fun of it if he never attempted to grant himself more ability.

I honestly agree with Nolan's assessment of Batman. There's two properties that both make the most sense when kept seperate from the rest of their respective universes. For Marvel Xmen , as having a bunch of non mutant supers that the public doesn't hate just makes their plight seem stupid. (civil war honestly was best take on marvel giving a real reaction toward super powered being. If they d have fear it would be against them all as fear and hate isn't selective.)

For DC it's Batman, as most of his best stories are when he is no where near justice league. For a rich guy who can just buy his way into being super, it makes absolutely no sense for him to deal with criminals with this bare bones low gear, especially since high level metas seem to occasionally waltz into his stomping grounds.(I picture somethnig along the lines of batman beyond as if you exist in a world of super tech why wouldn't you buy it? Oh makes him too much like ironman or that's not MY BATMAN...oh can it fan boys.) When you do what Nolan has done, his character makes more sense as he's using the best toys the real world has to offer in non-lethal gear and super powers don't exist to try give them to yourself.

Otherwise as George on Seinfeld said, it's like driving around in a wheel chair for the fun of it. Given how many times Jimmy Olsen has been given super powers I fail see how Batman couldn't find some means of going beyond a guy with a rope and boomerangs to fight crime other than that's what his character is locked into. He's a relic of the mystery men era whom was never allowed to evolve beyond that. (granted there's plenty of glaring examples of why doesnt someone just do X to solve their problem in comics...but Bruce's situation is one of the more glaring ones. )

It doesn't help that since batman is such a gimp package (what does he bring to the table for the justice league? That makes as much sense as putting Silver surfer in a comic Daredevil which they beat up low powered criminals together. Everyone steps on his toes and makes him superflueous.) in order make him seem important then they have write everyone else at half speed and dumb as nails to give him a point. Batman is just on the justice league because it's hey let's put all most popular characters on a single team not because makes much sense on paper. (especially given it contradicts his MO. For a guy who wants use fear against people and be an urban legend being seen in public with the entire league just flies in the face of that.)

I'm sure alot of people will disagree, but they probably won't fire back with anything other than I don't like that. The oh it's comics and doesn't have to make any sense at all is not a good comeback. That's the Joe Q school of writing that gets us crap like Brand new day. Everything happens for a reason, even in comics.

It's simple but highly addictive. Play it yourself and you'll know why.

And here's my response... This!


I think mine has a better grasp of the situation heh.

The fighting was stiffer than Frankenstein and a robot in a dance contest.

If it bleeds we can kill it. (follows the trail of neon green colored blood.)

Exactly what I was going say. They even say it during the trailer as Thor explains to Jane Foster that where he comes from magic and technology are one in the same.

I have no problem with the notion of hey I can make a difference. I'm all for doing the less glorious stuff that makes a real difference in the long run. Running around attacking people isn't it. We have cops in real life, and they re not remotely as useless as the ones in fiction.Aiding them can do far more good than being a lone wolf.(such as calling them or taking pictures of criminals.forming a neighborhood watch...I know boring stuff that doesn't involve violence.) There's smart ways of fighting crime and operating perfectly with in the rules. This isn't it.

This a great way to worry your family. This a great way to suffer great bodily harm. This is a quick way to an early grave. I suppose the day we have super villains with powers knocking over banks and hurting people may be more extreme measures are in order.

In fact dressing up likely makes you worse at fighting crime. You have an outfit that probably hinders your movement. Criminals quickly figure out who you are rather than just some random person walking around unmasked. Total diminishing returns.

The same, I was hoping it would stick around. I'd say its considerably better than what I've seen of the cape. The cape is amusing but it just was So so over all, so I'm not surprised to see it's not lasting. Even the show itself joked how uninspired the name the cape is. It might have had a reason for it, but was a weak name. it's rather symbolic of the show itself. It had some fun ideas but it needed to really try harder.

There's not enough room for more than one crap stirrer on this forum with the name Last in their handle...who will be the Last last.....there can be only one! (charges to fight and the screen goes black and the credits roll as journey starts playing.)

Oh lighten up Cowman! (watches Dr Tease inject Cowman with some serum, forum banner changes bright colors.) See all better now.

If you say so. Nella is cool, but she'd be crammed so far into the friend catagory if I knew her she might as well be another guy. I'd have no interest in her outside of hanging out and laughing at whatever crazy things she would say. You can have her heh.

I was refering to at that time table of the 1930s as my example. Not as a general context for America as a whole as a biracial situation wouldn't be as remotely unheard of now as it would be by 1930s standards.

I don't feel being an outsider is something unique to other races. I was named after the book stranger in a strangeland, and that's how I felt my entire life.

Ironicly the king pin was voiced by a black man in the cartoons heh. I guess was one of the prophetic moments where voice actors predicted something accidentally. (wolverine being an aussie, visionaries peter cullen voiced a character that transformed into a gorilla.)

At what cost? So it's perfectly ok to steam roll and crow bar in any secondary character's background if they re white but changes to minorities aren't? Im sorry that's bunk. I mean makes it seems like there's something wrong if everyone in a story is white.(sure there's plenty of stories where it happens still.) Which in real life it's highly common for there to be a ton of people of the same race flock together. Why can't we just have characters be what they are for them being compelling first and for most. If they happen to be diverse secondary.

Embarrassing past? Sheesh white guilt much? I've been on the receiving end of racism as a white man, and it cuts both ways. People who outnumber the others and have power trample the minority, its just life as power is color blind. I don't feel the least bit guilty for whats been done as there's tons of awful things in the past. I didn't cause them, and people have collectively gotten better about it.(and I currently don't have the ability to travel thru time to change them heh.) Unlike spiderman I don't get to inherit the sin of my father. I take full responbility for my own wrong doings and try to do right by people regardless of their background. White people are not indebted to world or the super villain race just because all the wrong doings of the past are well documented.

I come up with characters for stories and in game, and being a white male majority of them are white.(in terms of gender I'm probably about 50/50.) I don't see as racism , so I can understand comic book writers writing what they know. To automatically say all done out of racism is not quite the case. I feel comfortable writing what I know, as most the character I come up with are based off people I know. I don't have that many black friends, so I don't have as many sources to draw inspiration from. Does that somehow make me a bad person? I don't think so.

So to just toss all the older generation comic book writers under the bus like that is wrong. They were products of their time for better or worse. All we can do is learn from them and try to be better. To lord it over people now isn't right as it's just compounding the original problem. Which is actually an idea I have for a story...but thats another thread heh.

Whether his side arguement with his analogy flies or not is not what he was ultimately getting at. This is what he was getting at...

I don't think anyone thinks hey there needs be more racism in comics and less diversity. (atleast not in this thread.) I mean over all the people of these forums are pretty tollerate and progressive bunch. It's preaching to the choir for the most part.

Taking Foamy's original point of having being like superman being born and raised in the 30s and dating a black woman(as someone who feels like an outsider may be they find comfort in another who doesn't belong to the norm too.) probably would be an interesting story. If someone were to create a completely new character and explore this what if it probably could be a worthwhile story. A biracial couple back then was not taken well at all. Particularly lets say his parents were against it too adding more layers to the plot. The story however wouldn't look anything like the current iconic version of what every knows of Lois lane and Superman we have now. Why it would be best left to a new character or else world.