Kyriani
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Posts
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Joined
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My INV/SS Tanker has the following stats.
Without my ATO proc stacked which adds 20% to every resist she has:
90% vs. Smashing and Lethal
33.7% vs. Energy
36.8% vs Negative
36.2% vs. Fire and Cold
34.9 vs. Toxic
32.9 vs. Psionic (yes that's right psionic)
Her defenses without Invincibility saturated (just 1 mob for these values):
36.5% vs Smashing, Lethal, Energy and Negative
38% vs. Fire and Cold
37% vs. Psionic (yep again psionic)
Everything but the psi defense grows with mob size.
Her regen? Well with Dull Pain up (which is perma) she regens 43.6 hp per second. Now that might be much lower than a WP tanker but she's mitigating so much incoming damage her health bar never moves except on the hardest difficulties vs. the highest number of foes that the difficulty slider will allow. Barring extreme -res debuffs (which my ATO proc gives me a decent buffer) and considering my defense debuff protection, I am hard pressed to find mobs that can give me cause to worry.
I'm not sure I could say the same on a WP tanker in the same circumstances.
Some different priorities come up with incarnate powers between the two as well.
My INV took rebirth for her destiny which adds more regen
As a WP I'd take barrier for more mitigation
My INV I plan to take assault for her hybrid...
As a WP I'd take melee +resist
I can't imagine it being much different with a brute (obviously all the survival stats will be lower but thats just reality for the higher damage they do). -
Quote:I see nothing any more "perverse" in using tactics/kismet/TD/link minds/you name it to achieve perma-fast snipes than building for soft capped defenses on a blaster, or perma indomitable will on a controller, or perma Phantom Army on an illusion controller or perma-hasten on every character under the sun.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
This, to me, is also the crux of the issue. Snipes are a fairly standard attack across many powersets and this does encourage some rather perverse builds that I can't imagine the devs are intending (from anything Hawk or Synapse have said, I don't think they want people to be building for a Kismet in a build and Tactics just because of the Snipe change).
I understand if they don't want people using an insta-snipe at all times. But if that's a requirement they want to have, it should be implemented more consistently/easily to play with. The 22% to hit requirement invites a lot of perverse playstyles, as you put it, and isn't as clear as a lot of combo systems new powersets have had (and I have read the complaints about the new trend of combos as well).
It's a choice.
It is NOT however the only right choice and for many builds it could be a BAD choice.
That does NOT however mean the 22% requirement is a bad plateau.
Building for that 22% hit could cost you dearly... dear god you might drop below the softcap vs. energy or something else equally catastrophic!!!! -
Quote:I guess our opinions will forever differ of what is "unviable" and what is not. Just because an ability gets buffed doesn't mean you absolutely MUST take it.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I can see how you might think that is what I was saying, but it's not related to my point.
Unviable for me is having the power available but not taking it. Before KB IOs were available, it couldn't be unviable because you had no option to take them. Now that they are available, not taking them is just self-defeating. And one kind of argument that's impossible for me (or anyone) to win is one against an infinitely self-defeating player; he or she can invalidate any power evaluation or build choice. (I'm not say you are K fall intothat category, just in the abstract.)
Consider this... yes snipes will be buffed... and yes if you can manage perma-fast snipe it will be a strong part of your attack chain. But at what cost? How many slots did you spend to achieve this? What powers got replaced to make it happen? Did you lose something else along the way JUST to make that snipe perma-fast? Is what you gave up WORTH that snipe?
Those are questions whose answers will differ from player to player. Performance may degrade in some areas so that you can improve your snipe to be "viable". It's give and take and one must really take a hard look at what's being given up to achieve that perma-fast snipe. Sure some combos and AT's will have an easier time getting to it. Others may have to work harder but may see bigger returns because of the nature of their AT or powerset.
The point is just because this change is coming doesn't mean you have to necessarily take advantage of it and even if you do it may not be as "viable" as you think it is compared to what you have to give up to make it work. It may be just as "viable" to continue to skip the snipe and THAT I believe is INTENDED. I do not believe the devs want to force us into taking snipes just because they are the end all be all. But they do want them to be tempting with or without the perma possibility. -
Quote:Forgive me, but you sound like a monkey screaming his hand is trapped in a jar by a handful of cookies.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Actually Tactics costs 0.39 endurance/sec versus 0.31 in Targeting Drone. The difference isn't very extreme.
A change to snipes is relevant to everyone affected. This isn't me griping that Defenders and Corruptors get something Blasters don't (at least, not only that). It's also about how this will affect my Corruptors and Defenders. I will need to take Tactics now for the same reason I used to need to take Stamina. It's not "optional" except in a very limited sense.
All of this is why if the change is great for Targeting Drone, it's also great for Tactics. If the change is not that great, then Devices isn't that great and neither is the change to snipes itself, which makes me question why we even need this hurdle to acquire fast sniping. If it doesn't have that much impact, why require hitting magic numbers to use it?
Ultimately, I don't care if in the end they decide to either move the 22% mark out of Corruptor reach, or just make it so everyone always gets fast-snipe no matter their to-hit, because the ending level of power is not my actual concern. My issue is that a 22% requirement for fast-snipe creates build incentives that are, for lack of a better term, "perverse." The system just does not work for me. It doesn't make making builds more interesting or add justifiable complexity. It's just a target number that is very easy to hit and in most cases self-defeating not to chase.
You are NOT at any time obligated to take your snipe.
If you did take your snipe you are NOT at any time obligated to take tactics to make it perma-fast.
The intent of the change is NOT to make it easy to get perm-fast snipes. Once you accept that fact the 22% requirement becomes easier to understand.
If you CHOOSE to build for perma-fast and if it requires a certain build to achieve that is entirely on you to decide if it is worth it. If the answer is "it's not" then... don't?
But hey the devs may well decide that 22% is too high and lower it to 17% or some such who knows! -
Quote:In defense of those worried about the changes, Goat, I'd just like to say I can understand WHY they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink out there as possible issues with the change.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Plus, let's recall that this is all VERY preliminary. It hasn't even gone to beta yet.
If there ends up being an imbalance between the various ATs with access to the snipe change I trust that they'll adjust things to iron it out.
The more things the devs see BEFORE it goes to beta the more likely it'll be in the most palatable form. Once things are in beta major changes are usually not likely and even if they do happen the devs probably grumble about having to make them quite a bit.
So while I agree with you that we really do need to see the changes in action as well as whatever else is coming down the pike for Blasters specifically, I do understand why some folks are passionately worried about the changes. -
Quote:I think you're dancing between two different topics.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
With all due respect, something here just doesn't add up for me.
Blaster Devices granting perma-fast Snipe is being promoted as a big advantage. But Tactics gives the same advantage to a Corruptor or Defender. It's practically the same power, except Tactics affects the whole team.
So is this change big or is it not? If it's a big advantage to Devices it's a big advantage to Tactics. If it's not, it's not.
Blasters and Snipes
Targeting Drone has nothing to do with Tactics IMO. One power is in a secondary, affects only the user, is much cheaper to run and does stuff Tactics doesn't do. The other power is a pool power ANY character can take, some AT's get more out of it than others, it affects the team, and costs much more to run.
What other AT's get out of the snipe change isn't really relevant to what Blasters get because the change is a change to snipes not blasters.
The change is big overall. Some ATs, powers and powerset combos have an easier time taking advantage of the change but ALL who have a snipe can benefit to some degree. It's up to the players to decide how to take advantage of the change or if it's even worth it for their specific character.
When dealing with such varied AT's, powersets and combos, it would be nearly impossible for every iteration to get the exact same benefit. Those that feel they don't get enough can simply avoid taking the snipe. Fair is not a word I'd use in this discussion. Balanced would be the better word IMO. And the devs will ensure balance one way or the other.Quote:Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I think this is still the response to that:
That's still debated by some who seem to think the discrepancy is okay or a good thing, but it's still a valid rebuttal.Quote:Originally Posted by Biospark
We are not saying that it is not an improvement over the existing powers, just that it is not enough, and not fairly distributed amongst Powersets OR Archetypes. Certainly, this alone should make the Devs take another look at it. -
Quote:Are you saying no one takes a snipe right now? Cause I am confident that is not true.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Going out on a limb here, but, most people aren't going to be taking a power that is useful once in awhile. If they do take the power they will go to the trouble to make sure it is always useful.
Are snipes avoided by quite a few? Sure they are. I'm one of them. But I know people do take them right now.
Those that have them now will make better use of them without any build changes once it goes live.
Those that don't have them will at the very least look at them again to see if they can leverage them in some way. I personally fall into this category.
Some will build for perma-fast-snipe.
Some will build for almost perma by cycling aim and build up
Some will leave their build alone and say it's not worth it to try and fit in the snipe.
The change brings options no matter which way you look at it. -
Quote:While the "yelling" may have been a bit much... he has a pointOriginally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
It's really not necessary to yell at me. I appreciate that emotions are running high, but this isn't personal.
My apologies if I've offended you somehow. I feel like I'm working overtime to be polite, and would appreciate if you could do the same.
If you didn't use a snipe before the change you are not required to do so after.
If you did use a snipe before the change, then without any special changes to your build you will be able to use it more frequently and easier sometimes when using aim or buildup or if buffed by a party member.
After the change you'll now have the choice to build to make the insta-snipe permanent. It is not, however, required or "forced" upon you.
In some cases the investment just won't seem worth it. I've seen that myself while reviewing some builds on blasters, defenders and corruptors. -
Quote:I must admit this was my first thought as well >_>Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I thought that this was going to be about sliders.
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Quote:Everyone has to decide how much they are willing to sacrifice. I don't think that makes you any more or less selfish than the rest of us! ^_^ We all want our cake and eat it too!Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Yeah...I guess I'm selfish then. It seems like a lot to sacrifice for that power.
Ultimately one can always decide the sacrifices are too great for the return and simply not worry about taking the snipe
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Quote:I'd still like to see at least some method of force field defenders being able to benefit from absorb mechanics themselves... like say force bubble or repulsion field... or both of them :POriginally Posted by gameboy1234
I've had a FF character since I started playing, and I see nearly every FF take Dispersion Bubble. It's already a valued power. What makes me pull my hair out is folks who skip the little bubbles--Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield. Adding a bit of Absorbsion to to each of the little bubbles would at least make those folks thing a bit more about skipping those little bubbles.
and hey BLASTERS have repulsion field in their Force Mastery pool! That's another survival tool if they add absorb mechanics to it! -
Quote:Mind Over Body seems ok as is to me... My only gripe is we need APP customization >.<Originally Posted by Tater Todd
You keep ignoring like half my posts...and you get on Arbiter Hawk about the same thing...>_>.
So I'm going to do the same.
I would be fine with reducing Snipes for Doms even more but not to much b/c it would still make it not worth taking.
@Kyriani-Thanks! It still feels that you have to go out of you way to get the 22% and no offense but eww Psinoic Mastery and think that Mind Over Body needs a buff >_>.
But I think almost everyone has to put some sort of effort into achieving that 22%. Some more than others of course... but even the /devices blaster has to 6 slot targeting drone in just the right way to achieve that 22% hit mark (and they of course dont have build up to go along with it). If anything ALL doms have it easier than SOME other AT/Power Combos of achieving the 22% hit. Not all defenders or corruptors are time... and even those that are HAVE to take power build up or tactics or use a kismet to hit the mark. It's give and take for everyone really.
For doms to hit the 22% they need to take psi app, tactics and use the kismet unique. That's not really much different from the /energy blaster having to take tactics, kismet and use power boost, or the /rad defender or corruptor using tactics and a kismet or a /time defender having to take power build up. -
Just an FYI... ANY dom can take Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds from the psi APP and hit the magic 22% to-hit number.... >_>
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My own personal experience with soloing incarnate stuff:
I had two characters that had nothing but alpha unlocked and slotted with tier 1 from soloing Mender Ramiel's arc and using shards I got through regular play.
When Dark Astoria came about I took them both there and began to do the story arcs. I advise also getting Gabriel's mission to do all the DA arcs to get your 2 emps. Your first time doing each arc you get to choose from the reward table with no lock out. Meaning if you do all the arcs you can pick the incarnate salvage component each time. After your first time doing the arcs you'll be able to choose one item on the reward table per arc you repeat (incarnate component, threads, incarnate merits, reward merits). Each choice has its own 20 hour lockout so every 20 hours you can choose each reward. Doing more beyond that within the 20 hour period gives you lesser thread and reward merit options.
There's also the repeatable missions that gives 10 threads every 20 hours and 2 threads each time beyond that. These coupled with thread drops just from defeating foes can allow you to continue some advancement even if you're locked out of the other bigger rewards.
One thing I did which made a huge difference is be sure to set myself to +1 on the level difficulty. Just raising the level of mobs by +1 made a huge difference in iXP gain. +2 was about half as big an increase (though significant) but I felt the speed at +1 felt more comfortable.
Both characters were able to unlock all incarnate slots except hybrid and fill each power with at least 2nd tier powers and in some cases where I got lucky with a rare, tier 3 powers. I believe one character is +1 while the other is +2 in level shift though I have not been playing either of them recently since I've been focusing on my main character.
Before i22 my main was already +3 and was tier 3 in everything. With Dark Astoria I got her alpha to tier 4 and have been slowly building the rest of her incarnate stuff to tier 4 as well. Not enjoying trials I avoided them for the most part once I had my powers pre i22, but with i23 I ran enough magisterium to unlock hybrid and then used DA to actually slot the power. Another impact of DA was that I was able to use emps/astrals to get the costume/emote/aura unlocks I had not been able to before since I avoid the trials like the plague. It may be slow going that way but it does happen eventually, especially with Gabriel's 2 emps per week arc.
I far and away prefer DA's advancement (even if its much much slower) to doing trials. -
Quote:I have a few questions I hope don't get too lost in shuffle overnight...Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
LRM is awesome already. Instant LRM would just be ludicrous.
If Munitions Mastery needs a boost, I would probably look to Sleep Grenade or Body Armor, not to LRM.
1) Since Body Armor from the munitions APP is of much lower base value compared to the toggle shields in other APPs, would it be possible to make Body Armor cover all forms of damage and not just s/l? that would certainly give some incentive to take Munitions IMO.
2) Earlier you said:
Can you explain that a bit more in detail? As in, is it not simply a matter of changing a number value for a specific power for a specific AT? And would it be so bad to up those values? Since you're trying to shore up Blaster survival, if Blasters generally had a higher mod for defensive/buff powers (stuff like combat jumping, maneuvers, tactics, etc) than they currently do, wouldn't upping the base values help a bit? The base numbers they have right now are so pitifully low that even enhanced to the ED cap they are very lackluster.Quote:Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
Some Blaster mods do feel a bit low. Whether or not we will change them at this point, I'm not sure - it's a very risky change, because changing class mods changes how every single one of their powers works. If Blaster Effective Health is still found to be wanting after these changes, however, the buffs will continue until performance improves. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
I see one level 50 controller in your signature. Yes you can slow for damage as a controller, but most of them agree that leveling and kill speed picks up when they grab the pet, except for gravity control.
I'd argue that illusion also does pretty decently even before 32... Spectral Wounds + Blind is pretty sweet and at 18 you get Phantom Army. Spectral Terror at 26 can be turned into a sporadic damage dealer via a proc or two as well. -
Quote:Sadly not.Originally Posted by Haetron
I'm curious. Will the snipe change affect the blaster APP power, LRM Rocket?
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Quote:Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't everyone (assuming access to IO's at all) be able to use the kismet? It's not especially expensive nor difficult to acquire. And anyone can take a defensive pool power to slot it into.Originally Posted by Ogi
I'd rather they up the to-hit in targeting drone so it only needs 2-3 to-hits than needing an IO that not everyone will have access to. Ar/Dev is in edge case since it has a snipe but no aim or build up but that's what they should be paying attention to.
If you're talking using strictly SO's I am fairly confident the devs intent isn't for you to have perma instant snipes out of the box and they intend you to build for that specifically IF you want it. -
I wonder if LRM from the munitions APP is considered a snipe for these purposes >.> probably not... that would be way too much fun he he he.
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Another neat trick you can do with Energy Manipulation and a high recharge build is use Kismet + Tactics + Power Boost... you should be able to have perma power boost or close to it and use the snipe without activation all the time (and hey it boosts your defensive toggles too!)
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Practically speaking, I'd say it's pretty important to do all the personal story missions for any contact that has one (all Dark Astoria incarnate contacts and the Tyrant one from Belladonna) since not doing them leaves the story arc open which can prevent you from taking new story arcs if you leave too many unfinished. Mind you this isn't something you usually encounter while leveling really, but quite a few people have wondered why they stopped getting missions after awhile in DA.
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I'm still hoping for Power Pool/APP/PPP customization =\
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Quote:Well upping those base values starts affecting things as early as level 4. I am NOT saying this is all they need. I am simply saying it's an easy place to start addressing things. It also has the added benefit of not requiring any significant mechanic changes. It is simply giving higher base values.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think whatever it is, it has to become available no later than level 22, when SOs become available and the game shifts into blaster mulch-gear.
Blaster basic power pool base values:
Hover 1.75% enhanced to ED cap 2.74%
Combat Jumping 1.75% enhanced to ED cap 2.74%
Maneuvers 2.28% enhanced to ED cap 3.56%
Tough 10.5% enhanced to ED cap 16.44%
Weave 3.5% enhanced to ED cap 5.48%
Now what if they had Corruptor Base values instead?
Hover 2.13% enhanced to ED cap 3.33%
Combat Jumping 2.13% enhanced to ED cap 3.33%
Maneuvers 2.63% enhanced to ED cap 4.11%
Tough 11.25% enhanced to ED cap 17.61%
Weave 4.25% enhanced to ED cap 6.65%
That's not a huge change but it couldn't hurt and wouldn't upset balance all that much if at all. Now if you wanted to really get extreme...
Here's what they'd get with Defender level values:
Hover 2.50% enhanced to ED cap 3.91%
Combat Jumping 2.50% enhanced to ED cap 3.91%
Maneuvers 3.50% enhanced to ED cap 5.48%
Tough 15.00% enhanced to ED cap 23.48%
Weave 5.00% enhanced to ED cap 7.83%
I think defender levels might be too much to hope for... but even at corruptor levels it's a step up without stepping on too many toes. Now consider how this might play out with APP/PPP's. While I am aware the game before lvl 35 is important... just raising pool power values and whatever mechanic changes blasters get should be enough to get them to 35 easier.
With Corruptor values using just Hover, Maneuvers, Tough and Weave by lvl 22 when you get general access to SO's you'd have 14.2% defense to EVERYTHING and almost 18% resistance to s/l damage. And while it might be a bit intense endurance wise it is manageable with 3 SO's in stamina and 1 SO devoted to endurance reduction in each toggle. More end redux makes it easier to handle. Now couple something like that with whatever other ideas the devs are cooking up and it should provide all the survivability necessary to reach 35 and get the goodies awaiting them there.
Here's some examples of values changing for APP/PPP Shields:
Current Blaster Values:
Scorpion Shield 10.5% enhanced to ED cap 16.44%
Charged Armor 19.25% enhanced to ED cap 30.14%
Temporary Invulnerability 21.00% enhanced to ED cap 32.88%
If Blasters had Corruptor values instead:
Scorpion Shield 12.75% enhanced to ED cap 19.96%
Charged Armor 20.63% enhanced to ED cap 32.29%
Temporary Invulnerability 22.50% enhanced to ED cap 35.23%
It's only a few percentages higher but it gives at least some increase to Blasters without changing any mechanics AND it lets them get more out of enhancing them as well. As I've been saying over and over again this is NOT all that is needed. It is simply an easy way to shore up survivability without any major mechanic changes needed. It should work in UNISON with whatever other changes the devs are coming up with and may allow them to avoid some extreme design ideas they may not be entirely happy with. Add in other value changes like APP single target holds having shorter recharge times and longer durations and oddballs like em pulse getting the same treatment and Blasters end up with more reliable tools to ensure their survival. -
My personal top ten would probably be:
1) LotG 7.5% recharge - More recharge is always good no matter the AT or powerset combos. Some get more out of it than others but in general being able to do stuff quicker is good and in many cases game changing.
2) Miracle +recovery - I slot it on every character at 17. More end is good.
3) Numina +regen/recovery - I slot it on every character at 27. Again more end is good... and if you're building for regen more is good too.
4) Performance Shifter +chance for end - I slot it on every character at 18. What was that? An echo? MoReeee Ennnd IIISSSS gOOOOOood!
5) Celerity +stealth - In any case where the character doesn't have inherent stealth/invis powers and/or can't afford to take stealth itself, This baby is handy for the sprint of your choice. I invariably like to have a form of full fledged invis or failing that stealth on every character even if I only use it occasionally.
6) Steadfast 3% defense - Not every character I make is built for defense, but when they are this is my first "go to". It's cheap and awesome.
7) Gladiator's Armor 3% defense - If I am desperate for even more defense this is the next stop... but far more expensive.
8) Shield Wall 3% resistance - I am fickle with this one. When I have a bunch of low resists (but not no resist) I usually pop this in to shore them all up. When I only have say s/l resist I am reluctant to use it cause the 3% to everything else seems so small. I know that's silly... it's just my brain being stupid.
9) Panacea +chance for hp/end - I am fickle with this as well simply due to the price tag. It's good don't get me wrong and especially nice in conjunction with the Performance Shifter proc after popping things that crash or stop end recovery (I'm giving em pulse the evil eye right now!), but it's not vital. I use it for characters I feel can really get the most out of it.
10) ATO set - I try to invariably get the full ATO set for whatever AT I am playing cause the set bonuses are generally great, the procs are often cool, the price is right, and catalysts make them easy cheap purples to grab. -
In the case of survivability I think a good place one can begin (but not the only place!) is with what blasters already have.
Power Pool/APP/PPP values for all aspects of the powers should be reviewed. Some powers have excessively long cooldowns, low durations or low base values (or all of the above) in proportion to what they do relative to other AT's. The defensive toggles (hover, tough, weave, app/ppp, etc) should have their base values improved, The holds should have their base durations increased and base recharge times reduced.
EM Pulse from the Electrical Mastery pool should have a shorter recharge time and longer duration. Surge of Power and Force of Nature should have their base resistance values increased slightly.
The aoe sleeps should have their recharge times reduced. The debuff powers such as surveillance and melt armor should have their base values increased.
Many AT's find their APP/PPP's game changing when they open up but Blasters seem to get less overall from them compared to the other AT's with Scorpion Shield being the only real outlier.
APP/PPP powers are supposed to let AT's dip into skills outside their typical repertoire but when the base values are so very low they hardly qualify as worthwhile even when enhanced. Reviewing these powers could improve blaster overall performance.
As I said that's not the only place improvements can be made but it's not a bad place to start since it's simply a matter of letting blasters get higher base values from things they already have so it's not so painfully difficult (and expensive) to build up that lacking survivability.