Kitsune9tails
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Quote:One component of the power would be a suppression effect preventing it from being recast right after it 'broke'. You could use the same effect when it was detoggled to force a specific time gap between activations, perhaps instead of a recharge time.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What I'm saying is that if the armour is tough enough, it may well just survive long enough for its "summon" to recharge, thereby making it permanent. -
Quote:Understood. Perhaps the Devs (or you) know whether a speed-capped/teleporting pet would work well enough, especially if that were combined with a large radius buff effect dedicated to the caster (thanks, MagicFlyingHippy).Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The biggest problem with using pseudo pets to do this sort of thing is that, to the best of my knowledge, there is no game mechanical way to "lock" the location of the pseudo pet to be the same as your location consistently.
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Arcanaville, when you get a moment, would you please let me know whether the implementation of a psuedo ablative armor effect that I outlined is outside what is currently possible in the game engine as far as you know?
Run-on sentences ftw! -
Quote:If you are correct, and the movement penalties in Granite are essentially cosmetic, then I think in hindsight that is an obvious mistake.Originally Posted by Starsman
Granite can move slowly because it makes sense conceptually, its not even considered a balance penalty, at least not in the original design. The designer that came up with the power just figured something so big and heavy would not be able to jump or fly and be very slow moving, but teleportation would not be hindered.
Either the movement penalties are a balancing point and should apply to all movement modes, or they should be removed.
I think the best thing to do while we are waving our wands and fixing the power would be to (as a previous poster suggested) have Granite apply movement caps rather than penalties, apply those caps to all movement powers, and balance the other aspects of the power accordingly.
It is no harder to conceptualize it being harder to teleport an object based on its mass than it is to conceptualize it being harder to move around while carrying it (despite some undefined level of superhuman strength or psionic/technlogical/magical ability to move earth).
EDIT: To clarify, I think that in Granite you should be able to jump a little, fly/hover very slowly, run somewhat, and teleport not-as-far-as-before. -
That's good, and you might be able to simplify it even more by having the power be exactly like current Granite upon activation, then instead of applying a gradual debuff, just apply a larger self debuff after x amount of time.
Then you have your 'panic button god mode' and you know that you have exactly, say 3 minutes to defeat the AV before you drop down to a level of mitigation slightly better than running the other toggles.
It's still a power you want up all the time (since it's as good as the rest of the set put together) but at the same time you only want to activate it when you really need it.
May still want to play with the recharge on it, though. -
Quote:I agree completely that if simpler is as effective as more complex, you should go with simpler.Originally Posted by Umbral
By that same token, why should complex changes that require complex rebalancing be used when the exact same results can be used with simpler mechanisms? If the devs don't want the power to be used all the time, why not simply prevent players from being able to do that rather than attempting to generate mechanisms they hope that the players will interpret in the same way they have? Just because there are other ways do things and other things that can be done doesn't necessarily mean that those things are better, especially if they require more work to determine balance and effectivenes.
I'm just not yet convinced that going more complex might not be better overall.
Regardless of what the Devs wanted when they designed the power, if the power is changed today, its currently common usage should be a consideration in how the power is changed. NOT the sole determinant mind you, but a consideration.
I think it is possible to allow the power to be up all the time, yet vary it's performance during its' uptime such that is closer to a click Tier9 with a crash in overall effect: performance spikes upward as a 'panic button' when the power is invoked, then tapers off to 'merely the best mitigation' levels balanced by lowered movement and damage output. -
Quote:I think you can, via the mechanism you may have overlooked in my post: the ablative armor 'pet' has hp, but NO hp regeneration. You can give the armor a HUGE amount of hp, enough to tank a fight with an AV, yet it is guaranteed to drop at some point when it runs out of hp, leaving you without it for a while.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The problem is I'm not sure there's a good balance point between making the armour strong enough to fight AVs but impregnable to anything else and weak enough to be broken by regular enemies but being tissue paper to most any AV.
Likewise, you can run with the power up all the time, fighting fairly piddly foes, and it will still eventually drop. That could be seen as an 'improvement' over the current situation where you can tank small foes with granite literally indefinitely.
Also remember that it doesn't block all incoming damage; like a Henchman, it shares damage with you. It's still entirely possible for an AV to defeat you with Granite up (without defeating the Granite pseudopet)...at least as possible as it is today. -
Actually I kind of agree with Umbral, but at the same time he may be missing the point.
It's true that no matter what changes you make to any power/set in this game, including pure buffs, people will complain (see the changes to Psi Dominators). So making changes with an eye to minimizing complaints is pointless.
On the other hand, if a power needs to be changed, one should take the opportunity to improve the power overall as much as possible.
By 'improve' I mean 'bring in line with current design philosophy and taking advantage of current knowledge and tech...preferably without breaking the Cottage Rule'. -
Quote:You guys make some good points, but have you tried making up a list of arcs culled from the forum sources (review threads and peoples' signatures, etc) before going in? Then you would get good stories and no 'sifting through arcs' downtime.Originally Posted by RemianenI
This. Kitsune's point might've been dead on last year around this time, but now? Not so much. Besides, with dev content, I can load up a brute (over 30), crank the diff to +2x8 and raze most missions that I specifically choose to match that character's strengths, without even thinking about it. Can't do that in AE. Even if I make a Freakshow arc, the reward wouldn't be the same (as Eva pointed out - no xp bonus). The fact that I can stack the deck in my favor outside of AE more than makes up for the travel time.
And yes, I've tested it extensively. It isn't even in the same ballpark. It might have been at one time, but it's not now.
Heck, you could even start a thread of your own, requesting arcs with the parameters you want. -
When people are counting the xp gotten from AE, are they taking into consideration the lack of downtime between missions?
Even at only 75% full xp, being able to click and instantly get a new mission is going to increase your reward rate significantly above most Dev content, especially since there are stores right there. -
I'm just going to think out loud here, so if I make a fool of myself, feel free to point and laugh. Samuel Tow's emanator idea got me thinking.
Looking at this with the idea of not breaking the cottage rule. Source of info, RedTomax.
A Tanker running Rock Armor, Brimstone Armor, Minerals, and Crystal Armor has (in PvE):
End Cost .39
+16% Defense (Smashing/Lethal)
+34.6 % Defense (Defense Debuffs)
+25% Resistance (Fire/Cold)
+16% Defense (Negative/Energy)
+25% Defense (Psi)
+60% Resistance (Perception Debuffs)
+0.6 Perception Radius
-30 Confusion
+85.6% Resistance (Confusion)
Obviously, this is all before slotting and whatnot.
So by toggling on Granite Armor instead of the others, you give up the following:
+16% Defense (Lethal)
+16% Defense (Negative/Energy)
+25% Defense (Psi)
+60% Resistance (Perception Debuffs)
+0.6 Perception Radius
-30 Confusion
+85.6% Resistance (Confusion)
-Runspeed (0.7)
-65% Recharge (ignores enhancements/buffs)
-30% Damage (self debuff, ignores enhancements/buffs)
+ 0.5 Jump Speed (ignores enhancements/buffs)
-10 Fly (ignores enhancements/buffs)
+43.25% Resistance (Defense Debuffs)
Set Costume to Rocksuit
-500 Jump Height (ignores enhancements/buffs)
And in return, you get:
-.26 End Cost
+4% Defense (Smashing)
+34.6 % Defense (Defense Debuffs)
+25% Resistance (Fire/Cold)
+50% Resistance (Smashing/Lethal/Negative/Energy)
-21.625 Resistance (Stun/Held/Sleep/Immobilize)
-10 Knockback/Knockup/Repel (ignores enhancements/buffs)
I am of the opinion that what you give up in Defense is swamped by the increased Resistance. So that means that you are giving up a LOT of offensive capacity in return for a LOT of damage mitigation, a large endurance cost decrease, and excellent mez resistance.
My thoughts are these...
- Granite Armor, by itself, should have slightly better overall mitigation than any other set when considering only the toggles of each set (because it is giving up offense and movement).
- Granite Armor, by itself, should give better mitigation than the rest of the toggles exclusive to it in Stone Armor for the same reason.
- Since it can be run constantly, Granite Armor iis effectively an ongoing mitigation 'stance' rather than a Tier 9 'Godmode' or 'Panic Button' power. Therefore Stone Armor must either do without a Panic Button, or such a button should be built into some power in the set.
- In addition, the other toggles in Stone Armor may need to be brought closer to other sets to make Granite more of an alternative, rather than the 'be all, end all' power of the set for constant mitigation.
Looking at an Invulnerability Tanker running Temp Invuln, Unyielding, and Invincibility (with 3 targets in range), you see the following.
End Cost .468
+35% Resistance (Smashing/Lethal)
+10,000% Resistance (Knockback, Knockup, Repel)
+10% Resistance (Fire/Cold/Energy/Negative/Toxic)
-12.975 Stun/Held/Sleep/Immobilize
+2% To Hit
+8% Defense (All but Psionics)
Mag 4 Taunt
If these numbers are correct, it looks like Stone Armor has arguably better mitigation than Invulnerability (considering only the toggles) even outside Granite (and without saturated Invincibility). Invulnerability's only clear advantage is mez protection. So that means it's not the other armors that are the issue, it's just Granite that (perhaps) needs a nerf.
All of the above leads me to the following idea: ablative armor.
* When you activate Granite Armor, you create a psuedopet that follows you around. This pet is effectively, the Granite Armor 'suit' itself.
* This pet, like a Henchman in Bodyguard Mode, takes some of the damage that you would otherwise take from each attack. In addion it grants you buffs and debuffs such that overall, it provides the mitigation inherent to Granite Armor today. This is the 'panic mode' version of the power. It is intended to be powerful but temporary.
* This pseudopet can be killed (it cannot be seperately targeted but attacks that damage you damage it also). It should have high hp, but no hp regeneration. Upon death, its' power will persist for a few seconds. Upon death, it also summons a new pseudopet that does a few things:
The new pet looks like a 'battle damaged' version of Granite.
It plays an animation that warns you that your armor is about to drop (such as your armor cracking)
It play a one-time explosion power: global damage, a little knockdown) when your Granite drops.
After your Granite drops, it suppresses your ability to activate Granite Armor for some time (an amount of time to be determined as appropriate via testing, I'd start off with a 10 minute downtime and work from there).
Finally, it grants you some defensive buffs; the 'nerfed' version of Granite that we want people to spend most of the time in. About equal to to the other toggles in the set combined, and without the speed and damage self-debuffs.
I don't think this breaks the cottage rule: in fact you get current Granite Armor effectively ported right over.
You can keep Granite up indefinitely as today, but if you run into too much damage, it will fall.
The set's constant mitigation in Granite is still superior, but not over the top on average (unless you avoid powerful enemies that can break it, in which case you are 'slumming' anyway).
You'd probably need to tweak the recharge on Granite to prevent abuse of 'refreshing' the armor by dropping it and retoggling.
...so, what do you guys think? Similar to the Emanator idea, but mobile and designed to give somewhat 'spikier' performance similar to to other sets while retaining the unique feel of a Tier 9 Toggle. -
Quote:Agreed.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I'd expect any sort of decent auto-team system to drastically reduce that kind of down time and in doing so increase the overall rate of rewards.
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Quote:Probably not; 99% of the game content is designed for PuGs as it is.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Most folk hate forming and leading teams (understandably, it can be a big PITA), automating teaming would greatly increase the # of teams running content.
I wonder if that change in dymanic would necessitate further balancing of difficulty and/or rewards?
That would not keep some people from panicking at a lack of Tank/Healer/Debuffer (if the system were truly random). -
True, but you can always create an SG, then invite one other person with the understanding that after they invite your alts to the SG, you will then kick them out (recompensing them for their time however you work it out).
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It's a fine line.
There have been complaints about the flavor text "you crack your knuckles and slick back your hair" so I can imagine the Devs are avoiding being any less generic than that to avoid more complaints.
At the same time, from the time of the announcement of CoV, the players have wanted a system that would let them build up their own evil organization, complete with henchmen. SGs are basically intended to be that, redside, just with PC underlings instead of NPCs.
But people have always wanted to be able to 'take over' existing spawn points so that their own personalized minions would snatch purses or break into bus stops there.
It would be cool if they tied the SG base Mission Computer into the 'paper missions' system so that you could RP alts working for the leader of your personal SG.
Since we have the 'pokemon battles' Gladiator system in the arenas, they could also do something with that. Maybe allow you gain xp and drops by sending your henchmen obtained through that system on 'missions' that were basically npc v npc battles that you could watch, and costing you xp/drops to fix your minions up after the fight, with a cap on max earnings.
For extra points, make these features unique to redside for a time, the blue side can get their equivalents after the extra shinies attract some folks redside for a while. -
I wonder to what extent they have considered giving critters AT mods and/or Inherents.
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Quote:This totally should be a cartoon, so I could watch it.Originally Posted by Decorum
Thanks! Yes, Virtual Lad is merely a Paragon City child playing AE, in his special gloves, boots and helmet. His mother insists that he be accompanied by an old rickety clockwork babysitter called H.A.R.O.L.D. (Human Adolescent Restriction Of Liberties Device).
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If you play with a group of RL friends that are all Defenders, it's not hard to be playing in an environment where you are buffed constantly to the cap while all of your foes are debuffed to the floor. So non-purple-patch foes have like a 5% chance to hit you for 10% damage while you are hitting them 95% of the time for x4 damage.
For these people, Extreme settings at max difficulty are the closest the game gets to mechanically challenging. So these people create AV farms in the AE and run "Master of..." challenges and trials all the time. -
Quote:True; so say it now if you want a reasonable chance of seeing it a year from now.Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'm not going to say this is useless because such activities aren't, but even if you had a million people say the exact same thing and pledge to subscribe forever because of it, there is little to no chance it could be implemented in less than a year.
It just irritates me when people fault the Devs for not being psychic (not saying you personally are doing that). -
[QUOTE=Samuel_Tow;2860353]Look at how arcs are handled. Every character is a world unto itslef, with the only storyline that matters concerning this one specific character.
So when your wife makes a new character in Atlas Park, she very much is back in 2004, trying to sort out who the Hellions are and what makes the Clockwork tick. Even if you bring your level 50 hero to meet her, his story does not affect hers. QUOTE]
Every day is Launch Day.
When your wife makes a new level 1, she has just heard about Statesman's call for new heroes to come to Paragon. From her character's point of view, your character did a bunch of stuff 'in the past', but she (and therefore, both of you) predate events like Doctor Vahzilok or Countess Crey being defeated (especially since those events aren't tied to a specific year in-game).
Of course, the timeline could use some cleaning up, and if the Devs had the time it would be cool to see stuff continually moved to Ouroboros as the timeline is updated (as has already happened with the Positron TF).
But understandably new stuff will take priority, and as new things are put in the game, they are 'inserted' into the timeline 'seamlessly' (cough).
Gotta love those Menders, always busy... -
There is plenty of good stuff in the MA, it's more than enough to get you to 50, and the rewards are fine.
That said, it is currently a lot of work to find good stuff in there. Once the utter emergency state of exploit-fixing has passed, there really needs to be improvements to the search/tagging system that will help you to find stories you like without stumbling upon a succession of deliberately-built farms.
As it is, use the forum reviews to find the good stuff; you may never set foot outside the MA again. -
Some stories where the villain is arguably triumphant that I like:
Watchmen
Silent Hill
Memento
Primer
also, check out the anime series Speed Grapher, then tell me Chris Nolan did not watch it before making The Dark Knight, which is a story where the villain is arguably triumphant even though he is hauled off to an asylum at the end. -
Quote:I know for a fact that not everyone shares the opinion that "the last few issues have been nothing but fluff". Various people have various preferences, and all that.Originally Posted by Tokyo
I have most certainly adopted a 'wait and see' approach. The lack of community relations and advertising concerning GR have made me VERY skeptical. The last few issues have been nothing but fluff yet branded with the words "new content."
However with numbers down, it is an excellent time to ask people to survery themselves and their friends and ask for an updated list of what they consider 'real content' and things that would bring them back (or in for the first time) for the long haul. -
Can the game be sustained beyond 2012? Of course it can; this game ran on a tiny Dev team with no budget for years, while still creating new content and new systems.
Is the game perfect? No. But I can't think of a better MMO on the market; and only a few are more popular. -
My guess is that at worst, a level 50 player will be able to switch sides by accessing the new content via Ouroboros.