Kinslayer_

I'll be there as Exofrost MK IV and try to get some of my VG along

I've got a lvl 36 ice/ice and a lvl 40 fire/therm. I've tried both of them out in a variety of ways going pure offense, defence and balance and have come to a simple conclusion... If you're Corruptor is going to team or PvP, the secondary is where it's at.

For my fire/thermal, shielding a brute and forging him then slapping melt armour and heat exhaustion on the mobs while keeping him healed is going to be a LOT more effective than me having a few extra attacks with my much lower damage potential and the fact it's a lot more likely I'll die before the brute if I go offensive.

Same goes with the ice, I can pump out reasonable damage but it's the debuffs that are going to be of most benefit to my team.

That said, you can pretty much take and slot all your required secondary powers by lvl 40 so the chance to add to my offence with lvl 40+ is going to be a welcome addition.

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Coming on and ruining someone elses play is not and never will be 'fun' in my book and I will never do something just because I can and it makes me feel good.

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But it is in mine and it makes me feel good.

I don't think I have that narrow view of society. I have seen quite a lot of it. I just think that most it live in blind self denial.

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I do not live in denial at all, I just take no satisfaction from other peoples suffering and no matter how you argue otherwise, if you do, there is something wrong with you.

I actually find your statements abhorrent but there are always going to be a few who's own feelings and gratification come from provoking or upsetting others.

We can just be thankful that people with that attitude are in an extremely small minority and that there are procedures and laws in place for dealing with them.

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Violence, be that mental or physical, is in our nature.

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I don't think any of us can say that but I think the majority of us can say we haven't done something like that since we were kids. The reason? Most of us have the capacity to learn something all adults should, called self control and consideration, the basis of civilisation.

Sorry Smooth but your post highlights EXACTLY what is wrong with some attitudes in PvP zones and why PvP is avoided by the majority of players. I play CoH instead of a normal computer game for the community, everything you seem to advocate goes completely against that.

Doing something that you know a lot of people aren't going to like purely because it amuses you and because you can just shows a lack of consideration for those you're playing with.

If your idea of 'fun' is to make other people feel bad and you think we're inherently sadistic, you have a very narrow view of society.

Coming on and ruining someone elses play is not and never will be 'fun' in my book and I will never do something just because I can and it makes me feel good.

As for you being the only one who can decide what you view as bad? Nonsense. When you put your own enjoyment above others discomfort, that's bad.

A bit poor last night in terms of learning TBH.

We had a reasonable turnout but a very thing spread of AT's with not a single dominator there. Had a couple of people complaining when we were capping levels at the level of the lowest member.

One guy even though the 8 level difference would make the lowest member a better PvP'er(as opposed to getting continually one shotted by the rest of us )

We also had a problem with mixed hero/villain teams when it just kicked us all from the team as soon as the match started and wouldn't let us mix teams once in there.

I really think that at the moment, it's just going to be about team practice rather than tatical practice until we can get interest up. Once we can guarantee 4 or 5 of every AT each week, then we can start testing a few more things out, as it is, trying to get the exact builds we need along is a bit of a problem.

Maybe I am too. I've not taken this as a discussion about the range on a kin but more a request on how to make it more blapper like?

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hopefully it'll only take salvage from the player in question, rather than from the salvage store, as the store can be restricted (i think i read that anyway)

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It can be restricted but there's no point restricting it if those players aren't putting salvage in to start with as they're using it all on buffs

From what i've seen, the buff's are linked to how rare the salvage is so the really rare stuff gives better buffs

QUICK!

All non storm defenders/non spine regen/non blappers sign up now to show imagination in PvP isn't dead

Name: Exofrost MK IV
Global: @Kinslayer
Archetype: Corruptor
Powersets: Ice/Ice

HOWEVER He's only 36 at the moment. I'm certain I will have him to 38 by the start but in case I don't, here is my back up

Name: Kal'tk
Global: @Kinslayer
Archetype: Scrapper
Powersets: Katana/Regen

Simple enough one here, just want to guage people's reactions.

As a squishy Corruptor with no inbuilt mez resist, what little I have comes from Combat Jumping and Acrobatics.

My build is Ice/ice and I have speed for SS/hasten, fitness for stamina/hurdle/swift and leaping for CJ/SJ/Acrobatics.

I'm about to do a respec to make it a bit more useful in PvP but I have a bit of a conundrum. For me, the mez resist offered by the leaping pool seems to have almost no use at all.

I still have one pool available to me and was looking at taking the end buff from my patron pool(scirroco) and working in tactics to give me a bit of +PER.

The way I see it, I can drop leaping in favour of leadership pool as final pool. I can slot hurdle to compensate which should still give me mobility with SS. I know some of the leadership pool offers lmited mez resistance so the question is, which of the following is more useful?

- Leaping pool with SJ mobility, knocback resist of acrobatics and immob resist of CJ(I currently have SJ/ss always on but toggle CJ and run when I get immobilised)

-Leadership pool with it's minor buffs, minimal mez reistance and useful +PER bonus

I've got my current planned build below but will alter it based on any feedback given(not just one the pools, any feedback is welcomed)

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Exofrost MK IV
Level: 41
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary: Ice Blast
Secondary: Cold Domination
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Ice Blast==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(29) EndRdx(33)
01) --> Infrigidate==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(17) Rechg(31) Rechg(34) EndRdx(37)
02) --> Ice Bolt==> Acc(2) Acc(5) Dmg(15) Dmg(19) Dmg(29) EndRdx(33)
04) --> Ice Shield==> DefBuf(4) DefBuf(5) DefBuf(9)
06) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(7) EndRdx(7)
08) --> Freeze Ray==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Hold(11) Hold(13) Hold(15) EndRdx(37)
10) --> Aim==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(13)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Bitter Ice Blast==> Acc(22) Acc(23) Dmg(23) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) EndRdx(33)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
26) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(26)
28) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(28)
30) --> Benumb==> Acc(30) Acc(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(34) Rechg(34) EndRdx(40)
32) --> Arctic Fog==> EndRdx(32) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(36)
35) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Heat Loss==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) EndMod(39) EndMod(40) EndMod(40)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Scourge==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

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One has to think why in the name of the Great Nerf Bat they didn't put this in as soon as they knew the costs of the full bases.

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More to the point, you have to wonder how some SG's are going to stop their members sponging all the salvage they earn on temporary buffs

"OK Agent X. You've not handed over any salvage yet and we need just one piece of thech to make the MK 3000 Orbiting Death Ray... What do you mean you spent 6 months of salvage on defence buff's so you could solo an AV?"

Agent X is kicked from the VG

I can almost see this creating more internal VG issues than the 'you will play in SG mode at all times' atittude!

Well, I guess eveyone's entitled to their point of view, even if it is wrong

The debate on CoH/CoV has been raised in countless other threads and the same old arguments will be trotted out. However, here are the pro's and cons of each game.

CoH

- More active community. I've had a look at a few figures over the last few nights and CoH regularly has around 30-35% more players on. What is interesting is that the gap is closing though and certainly in the last 2-3 months, CoV has been catching CoH up as back in February, it was closer to 50-60% more.

- Better teams. The quality of teaming on CoH is better than CoV in general. Several reasons for this with the two main ones being that CoH AT's complement each other more and there is a lot more knowledge about on how to team on CoH due to it being around longer. Most of those complaining about bad teams on CoV do seem to be a little forgetful of what teams in CoH were like over a year ago!

- More content. Goes without saying. More TF's, more zones, more GM's

- More variety. Each zone in CoH has it's own unique character, Peregrine Island, The Hollows, Shadow Shards, Terra Volta, they all seem very different with different enemy groups throughout. For CoV, Nerva and St. Martial stand out but the other zones all seem pretty samey.

- More enemy groups. In CoH, it's quite rare you will see common enemy groups throughout lvl 1-50 with lots of different ones available. In CoV, once you get away from Legacy, Snakes and Goldbrickers, you're pretty much stuck with Arachnos, Council and Longbow, with the occasional Rikti, Freak and Carnie thrown in. More high level content with some of the newer groups like Coralax would have been nice.

CoV

- More/better arcs. In CoV, all the arc's are interconnected. They really do so much more to flesh out the Co* world as a whole than those on CoH do. The time sepnt on this background just makes it seem more 'real' as an environment.

- It's challenging. I like the fact that teaming in CoV does take a bit more skill than CoH, the hero side of the game has always been too easy and the challenge in CoV is welcome. One thing I have noticed is that even on the lowest setting, CoV quite regularly spawns +1 enemies. Yes, soloing an MM is easy but no easier than soloing a regen scrapper was when CoH first came out.

- Much better SF's. The standout Eden aside, the SF's in CoV are of a much better quality than CoH. On CoH, there are some good TF's, on CoV they are all good. The crystal room of Ice Mistral, The sight of the Leviathan and stepping out of the boat to see the oil rig and swarms of sky raiders on the silver Mantis SF all give them something unique, which Citadel, Positron, Manticore and Co do not offer.

- More imagination for missions. OK, the missions will always be limited but I like the fact ambushes can take you by suprise on CoV, I like the fact there are almost none of the dull 'kill 10' or 'Visit Mr. X' missions on CoV.

- Better design. Crawling across 7 different zones to do missions before you get a travel power is awful on CoH. the fact one of those zones is the abomination of the Hollows where lvl 7 missions are given miles away in lvl 15-20 areas is stupid and being given missions in Perez when none of your teammates are on is sould crushing. The fact CoV has more of a natural progression thorugh the zones is a great move.

Overall

Both games have their good and bad points and CoH is still the stronger of the two. However, It's stronger because it's been around longer. Once CoV has the content and the community get's a bit stronger, I think that people will see a shift in the balance of power between the two.

Also worth noting that Blappers are possible in CoH as the blaster secondaries include some high damage melee moves. For a Corruptor, the same principle just does not apply.

Kinetics is one of the more difficult sets to play for a Corruptor as many of the moves are AoE aggro magnets and it takes a bit more skill in aggro management for a kin than it would for a /thermal or /ice.

No high powered melee attacks and a lot of aggro generating kinetic moves seems like a recipe for disaster in trying to make a melee based Corruptor. The main thing to consider is not that 'Melee blasters work in CoH' but instead 'Do melee defenders work in CoH?'

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That anoying lady if PI won't give me the last mish in the Stateman's Pal arc.

So if any one has it please shout me.

D

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Dagar, I still have this arc on D-Zol. Not sure how far through it I am though.

Bloodline VG - Limited Spaces Available

As I7 approaches and everyone stops alting or returns to the game, I've had a bit of a tidy up in the Bloodline. The good news is that by clearing out a few alts that sneaked in there, losing a few players who've not been on in weeks and removing a couple for people who have left the game, we've freed up some space.

We have around 8 spots available so if you're looking for a VG, give me a yell in game on @Kinslayer.

Still undecided? Here's a bit of info on us.

We're a PvE VG made up of members of the New Blood Rebellion and Last Line Of Defence SG's plus many members we've collected along the way. Our prestige earning is around the 8 million mark and we have a fully raid capable base with the VG computer and TP's to all zones. There is a separate VG for alts and we also have a separate PvP VG but we don't really get involved in the RP side of the game. We also have 3 of the servers most dedicated CoV badge hunters.

We're also one of the better known VG's on Union and are active community members, often organising and helping the other big VG's with community wide events such as Tuesday night PvP, the recent Kronos GM spawn, one of the first Union Caleb spawns, etc.

I also pride myself on being able to get a respec or SF team together whenever anyone wants to do one and can get through the respec in 26 minutes for those needing it(new record set last night, down from 32 minutes)

The level spread on our VG tends to be in the uppers levels with 32 lvl 40's and 27 members at lvl 30+. However, with all the alts we have online and our coalition VG's, you should be able to find regular teammates at any level.

We're not a power gamer VG and tend to be pretty layed back with teaming more important than XP. There is no pressure to play in VG mode but those who are earning prestige are more likely to get inf handouts from other VG members when they need it for SO's.

The VG is also run as a democracy. Just because I'm leader, doesn't mean what I say goes as everyone's opinion counts.

Ideally, we would be looking for higher level members who are in a dead VG or haven't got one, just because we're more active at those levels but anyone will be considered, regardless of level or experience.

Some of our members you may have seen around are Kinslayer, Dark Merchant, Scar Child, Chad Massive, Feugo, Ragnarak, Lucius Kane, Seriously, Biomentia to name a few.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Yup, called 'Union Leaders'.

It's a private channel to stop any old ******** joining so send a tell to me on @kinslayer, @.Dr Death or @Max Powerz for an invite

Thanks for those responses Bridger.

I must say that I've had doubts about the petition system but the fact you've confirmed 'several' accounts a week are banned and outlined the fact past violations are taken into account and what actions the GM's can take has given me a bit more faith.

At the recent meeting of Union SG/VG leaders, we discussed a few things we can do to help the community. As well as trying to promote PvP knowledge and make it a bit more fun for the casual players, one of the ideas was to try and help new VG's

So, here is what we have on offer. Each month, some of the bigger VG's out there will take an up and coming VG on as a coalition, in a kind of mentor scheme. At the moment, we have 3 VG's available who are all willing to do this(I suspect we will have a couple more who couldn't make the meeting)

Bloodline
Violators
E.V.I.L

So, if there are any new VG's out there who want to take advantage of this, please post here or contact me in game on @kinslayer.

This really is a good opportunity as you will get:

- An active VG in coalition to help you with teams while your own VG is growing.
- Experienced players you can ask any questions to over coalition
- Also, a lot of these 'mentor' VG's are full so you may get some of the members alts join you for a while and help you recruit while they are alting.

Anymore details you may want to know on some of the other points discussed at the meeting can be found
HERE

We hope to be able to offer something similar on the Hero side but not many heroes came to the meeting so if any hero SG's out there do want to help with this, please get in touch over the Union Leaders channel

Worth pointing out that there was a very poor showing from the CoH side of the game.

I think we only had 2 or 3 SG's represented compared to the 20+ VG leaders who turned up.

Bobthedemon

I understand you may think it's perfectly viable and that's your opinion. However, my opinion is that it takes the fun out of PvP for the victim. I will never do something that may inflict debt on another player in PvP. Some people think this is tactics which is fine. As someone who PvP's on both sides, I'm more cavalier about it on my lvl 50's who debt is not a worry for than when it comes to my villain. 5 mob deaths in a PvP zone put me at the debt cap and having an hour of PvP followed by two hours of debt removal because someone thinks inflicting debt on me is a viable tactic is one of those things more likely to drive me from the zones.

Personally, I'm not in PvP to be seen as the 'uber' PvP'er, I'm in there as fighting people I know on the other side of the fence is fun and I want to promote PvP. TP'ing people into mobs or drones does not promote PvP and is not about fun, it's about using whatever tactics you can to enable you to win. Some people have that 'must win at all costs' mentality but it's really not for me.

I'd much rather be known as someone who tries to fight fairly and is considerate of fellow players than someone who can take lots of the opposition out of the fight by any means necessary.

It's because of that attitude I will not team with people who use the tactic. I'd rather fight solo and get ganked than be part of that. That's just me standing up for what I think's right just as you are standing up for the fact you believe anything goes.

The differences in attitudes can probably be summed up quite easily. For me, PvP is about playing WITH other players, for those who condone the use of any tactics it's about playing AGAINST other players.

I'd like to think my attitude makes PvP a lot more enjoyable for people than those of the other attitude but that's just my opinion

I disagree with the fact drone TP'ing punishes other peoples mistakes though. How is it punishing someones mistake that you get them in range for a split second and press a button when there's nothing they can do about it? That tends to suggest the mistake is actually going to a PvP zone where they can be targetted.

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I hope you are not talking about sweet chilli, kins. Because if you think that is her only tactic, then you haven't spent much time in the pvp zones at all.

Plus, I also mob tp too and occassionally, even kill someone all by myself. I do try not to let that happen too often though these days.

All is done perfectly within the EULA and also within what the Dev's have said about the use of drones and NPC's.

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I'm not going to name the person in question as this thread is not about flaming.

Needless to say, many people see this as a cheap tactic and while those in question may think it viable, they do it knowing full well how people feel about it.

I have TP foe on one of my alts and have NEVER used it in PvP to mob or drone TP and my VG/SG's know I frown on it.

If someone uses it that way on a team i'm in, I'll make my excuses and leave the team as I don't want to be associated with that sort of behavior.

Drone TP'ing is cheap and takes no skill, anyone can do it. Mob TP'ing is just downright malicious and shows no consideration for those you're playing against. Both of these are done KNOWING it will annoy the opposition.

I will TP people to me for killing as you still have to do the work yourself but I will not use debt inflicing mobs or one hit drones to do my dirty work.

To me, that's bad behaviour.

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Success! Thanks to the guys and gals at Customer Support, Seethe has rightfully been awarded Crystal Keeper. Thanks to the GMs involved!

Strike Force Squall (with some dastardly photograph intruders from Team 2!)

Strike Force Squall
Seethe : Brute
Toybox : MasterMind
Keplerian Divider : MasterMind
Death Rose : Dominator
Wanderer. : Corruptor
Mr. Pinkerton-Smythe : Corruptor
Lycricia : Corruptor
Salome : Stalker

Team 2 (thanks to Exo/Kinslayer for leading)
Exofrost Mk IV : Corruptor
Welsh Blackguard : Brute
Dr Zed : MasterMind
Chained Angel : MasterMind
Wamdue : Dominator
Chilling Twilight : Corruptor

Thanks one and all who attended, hopefully everyone will be awarded the badge in the end. Next week: er ... not decided yet ...

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Missed Graventite off team 2

Can't remember exact details but he was a stalker and I think he was lvl 40.

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We're always open to suggestions, though. What exactly do you think Cryptic should do?

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Not a dig at the GM's in any respect Bridger but I think something needs to be done to publicise what happens when people send petitions.

I know that individual cases can't be made public but there is a strong feeling among the community that petitioning people has little or no effect. The amount of times I've warned people using bad language that they will be petitioned only to get a reply back along the lines of "So, what that doesn't do anything".

I've petitioned several people in the past and have been in situations where repeat offenders have been regularly petitioned but there has been no visible action taken. To this day, I have no idea what sort of action the GM's can take and how often they do take those actions.

Also, some more clear cut guidelines on what IS petitionable and what isn't. I know every case should be evaluated on it's own merit but I'm also guessing the GM's can only go on what they see in the chat logs for that petition. If this is something that has been long running, it may seem the comment made that leads to the petition is fairly harmless but if it's something that's been going on for a while, it could just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

For instance, is it considered a petitionable offence when someone uses arena as their own private chat channel? I'm not talking the odd question but when people quite happily spend lengths of time holding general conversations on there and are often repeat offenders(I think everyone on Union can name 3 people renowned for doing this)

Does someone have to swear at you in a PvP zone for it to be petitionable? I've seen people being pretty nasty with what are only very subtle remarks but the actions they are carrying out at the same time are what make them so nasty. Surely GM's can only look at the chat logs and see what is there rather than what's happening in the zone at that time?

The upshot of this is that many people just do not bother sending petitions as they see it as a pointless waste of time. I know you always advocate us sending them but until we know what action can be taken and how often it IS taken, people are a lot more likely to flout the rules or retaliate in kind.

Is each petition looked at individually or does past petition history come into it?

Some sort of published figures which show that in period Z, X number of harassment petitions were raised of which Y were dismissed, Q resulted in warnings and W resulted in action taken.

Here's another thought for you. Once the 'going rogue' system is in place and we have stalkers on both sides of the wall, will we see the same complaints about certain 'uber' builds once they are available to all?

Well here's my take on it

Ganking happens. It's not pleasant but you have to deal with it. If numbers are uneven, put a call out for reinforcements, if there are none, ask the other side if some of them want to switch alts to even the numbers up and make it a bit more challenging. The 'Guys, we're too heavily outnumbered so are ALL going to leave unless you want to even things up' announcement usually works as they realise you're about to take PvP away from them or 'This is too lopsided to be any fun for us, we're going to go to Warburg instead' will also see many of them join you there. For the record(and any red names who may be reading), Warburg would be a lot more fun if you could have mixed hero villain teams.

Personally, I've had some of my best bounty/rep nights in sirens when heavily outnumbered as a small team of two or three of us go out, knowing full well we'll be dead straight away but by selecting a target and time to attack carefully, we may kill that pesky toon before we get face planted, if not, we're at our base anyway so we can try again. Doesn't matter either way as next time i'm there, the odds may be balanced in the exact opposite way.

Stalkers pwning. Saying stalkers make the zones unbalanced when there are too many of them is pointless, too many spine/regens on the hero side have the same effect. Too many toggle dropping blappers have the same effect. I've seen just as much bragging and zone flaming from spine/regens and toggle dropping blappers as I have stalkers. The simple fact is that when certain AT's have a quite apparent edge over others, it tricks those playing them into thinking they're better at PvP than they actually are and they believe their own hype.

Sixkilla, not sure what AT you were playing against these stalkers but I've seen stalkers regularly running for the hills on Union in great numbers. Expecting to go into a PvP zone at any time and expect to have a chance against all of the builds in there is silly. I know full well which builds I can be most effective against and which I can't. Which ones I can take on one on one and which ones will need teamwork for me to take down. Maybe stalkers can take your particular build down quite easily but there will be other builds on your side they are scared witless of. If you don't have those builds in the zone at the time, that's just unfortunate but you don't see the same complaints from stalkers when the zone is suddenly full of storm defenders.

Trash talk is another matter but complaining about it on the forum is pointless and just going to end in tears. The age restriction on Co* is 12 and needs to be remembered in PvP AT ALL TIMES. Personally, if I was 12 and had access to a game like Co*, given my mentality at the time, I would have gone in those zones and created chaos just for the 'fun' of it. I'm not saying it's right or anything to be proud of but it's one of those things and people seem to forget that and fail to make exceptions for it.

I try not to react to any of it, certainly easier said than done, but I also make sure that if I've been particularly annoyed by someone, I will stay in the zone until the numbers even up then make sure I coordinate my revenge against the offenders.

In short, if it's petitionable, petition it. /petition may be like a dog with no teeth but if the person is a serial offender, action will be taken sooner or later. If it's not petitionable and you just find it annoying, ignore it or bide your time for payback.

For example, there is a well known controller on Union who's only real PvP tactic seems to be drone TP'ing. I've never had a vocal altercation with that person but whenever they turn up in a PvP zone, I will automatically coordinate attacks against them and I get more satisfaction and anger management from seeing them faceplant time and time again than I ever would by bringing it to the forums or having a futile debate with them over broadcast.

One thing is for sure though, coming on the forums and having a rant about something that is part of PvP is really not the answer as all that is going to do is split the thread into the 'for and against' and provoke exactly the sort of flaming you're trying to say you don't like in PvP