JulioThom70

I have a character whose background is ex-Wyvern. I've had an awful time coming up with something passably Wyvern-ish in the Costume Creator.

If anyone can give me an idea for a couple of the costume pieces that would start me in the right direction, I'd be very appreciative.

Thank you in advance for your help.

One more coal for the fire.....

Removing choices is never a good thing. First there was the "adjustment" of no longer making HOs from level 45 -47. Now the changes to these 2 trials. Not cool.

Eden is still pretty fun, but it should definitely have Titan-O's available for over 40s. Seriously, a standard SO for completing a trial of this length and difficulty is patently ridiculous from a Risk vs. Reward standpoint.

As far as the Sewer Trial....either fix it, or remove it. The Risk vs. Reward for that trial is hopelessly out of whack if you actually run it in the levels it was designed for. Ever since the Kracken nerf, the Sewer is a ghost town. I think it'd be an excellent 40 - 45 trial, in the same vein as the LGTF.

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Yes but SOs are not really the standard anymore. What I'm really asking I guess is 'is there a noticable difference between the set of 50 lvl. Crushing Impact and lvl 30 Kinetic Combats and Slugging Poundfests?'

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SOs are still the standard. That is what the game was, and still is, balanced against. If IOs ever become the standard the game is balanced against, all of the casual players will be the ones that are "gimped".

I guess we have different meanings for "gimp". You can be as good as a 50 used to be at 27. You can be loads better when you get to 50.

Per the Devs, IO participation is supposed to be completely optional.

A full set of Lvl 50 Crushing Impacts would net out to:

68.9% Acc boost
143.10% Damage boost (ED knocks this down to 101.47%)
68.9% End boost
68.9%Rech boost

Obviously better, but you would expect that Lvl 50 IOs would be better than Lvl 30 IOs.

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Does slotting Kinetic Combat in the melee attacks gimp their damage/acc/recharge? Or do Kinetic Combat IOs go up to lvl 50 as well.

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No. It won't. Even though Kinetic only goes up to Lvl 35, it won't "gimp" you.
The enhancements slotted in a power the way Vox mentioned here (this is with 4 Level 30 Kinetic Combat and 2 Level 30 Pounding Slugfest Set IOs) work out to:

43.50% Acc boost
126.15% Damage boost (ED knocks this down to 98.92%)
60.90% End boost
39.15% Rech boost

Again, this with ALL of the IOs in Kinetic and Pounding at Level 30.

If you slotted even level SOs of

1 ACC
1 END
1 RECH
3 DAM

The enhancements would work out to:

33% Acc boost
99% Damage boost (ED knocks this down to 94.93%)
33% End boost
33% Rech boost

+3 SOs bring ACC, END, and RECH up to 38.30% and the 3 DAM go up to 114.89% (ED knocks this down to 97.23%)

So...at Level 27 (assuming you could amass everything) you will have an attack that is more powerful percentage wise that you could have ever slotted in the Post ED world. You could slot with these IOs AND NEVER REALLY NEED TO UPGRADE THEM EVER AGAIN.

You can't match Vox's numbers with standard SOs.

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I'll be working on one once I have my build fully tested. It takes me some time though

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I'm looking forward to it too. In fact, you inspired me to write my now somewhat outdated SS/INV Brute Guide.

I'm gonna have to dust that one off and add some I9 insights (although right now I'm having sooooooooo much fun with my WS that poor Boombastik (Lvl 44) is in mothballs right now.

I'll prolly do 2 builds, one more realistically achievable and one build that is "Teh Uberest" with all the IOs you can shake a stick at.

Ermmmm........

Welcome Back!!!!

My primary beef is that the drop rates are wayyyyyyyyy too low for Costume pieces.

Overall, though, I like I9.

(QR)

How did this become a discussion on anything dealing with Scrappers?

The bottom line is this........

-Currently, Brute Fury IS BROKEN in PvP.

-This isn't conjecture or theory. This is a certifiable fact, confirmed by the Devs.

-It has been broken since CoV launch, which is slightly over a year.

-This totally ruins the premise of the Brute as a feared Melee Fighter. It turns them into "Lite Tanks".

Fixing Brute Fury will, hopefully, turn Brutes into more formidable opponents in PvP.

Talk about Scrapper stuff in THEIR Forum. This is the BRUTE Forum. Brute users have every right to needle, cajole, complain, et al... until their BUSTED inherent is FIXED for PvP.

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Don't take hurl. I hate it. As soon as I get my respec I'm getting rid of it and taking either haymaker or rage. I am already using a jab punch jab air superiority chain to build fury and then KO blow when it's up. Hurl just doesn't do anything for me.

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Hurl is quite skippable. It will never be a big part of your attack chain, but it is nice for a ranged attack to finish off runners in PvE or PvP.

I have a hard time believing you actually skipped Rage or Haymaker! I consider both of those items essential (ESPECIALLY Rage) to an SS Brute.

Jenius -

Jab is a decent alternative to Punch, if you want. I prefer to use Brawl with an End Reducer as my Fury builder, since it's free. Because Brawl's End cost is rather high for this, I consider the End Reducer a necessity.

Thanks for the well wishes.

On that build, I took Jab that late because I really didn't have anything else I really wanted at the time. I've respecced since then and took Tough Hide at 35 and Hurl at 41. I was thoroughly unimpressed with the Damage of Mace Blast. Even with 3 Damage SOs, it seemed rather "Meh". I'll likely get Web Envelope for PvP purposes as my Lvl 47 power.

I seriously like Jab when I had it, but ultimately I found Brawl, with 1 End reducer, was sufficient as a Fury filler.

Forgive me if this was already mentioned. I didn't see it.

Posi, any new news on fixing the Brute Fury bug issue in PvP? The last _Castle_ related post on this was on 4/4/06. LINK

4 months is quite a long time to be, as _Castle_ put it, "exploring possibilities" with no fix or Dev update.

This issue is still important to many of us.

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That is the goal. We really like the animation since it is such a signature move. No promises, but we really don't want to change the look of the power.

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I'm sure your keeping in mind that, for reasons of your own design, we can't respec out of our Patron Powers. Changing animation or even the fact Break Frees now work may have changed the Patron Pool someone would have chosen in the first place.

Changing anything on any Patron Power, even for "balance", should be an indication that you need to seriously look into a method allowing us to change Patrons after one is chosen.

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QFT.

QFE.


THIS is why un-respecable Power Pools are such a bad idea. My main didn't take GW, but if I did and the powers got changed AFTER I chose GW, I'd be mighty upset.

IMHO, this is worse than the bugged Smoke Grenade of I1-I2. At least you could drop the 'nades in a Respec, if you thought they weren't effective anymore.

At minimum, the ones affected should get Respec, since that hold may have been the only reason they chose the power.

Really though, PPPs being un-respecable has gotta go.

Me too......

Capped RES + Bugged Invince= Standing in the middle of a bunch of +7 Freaks and laughing at them.

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I will simply point to Fire Tankers pre GDN and ED.

No Defense to speak of, just resistance. Capped at 90%

Never had to worry, had enough Health to keep alive till HF was up. Get in trouble, pop an Insp of some flavor.

What I was saying is that a blended approach is what leaves the set lackluster in it's current state.

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I suppose that's why Fire Tankers were, back then and still now, the squishiest of all Tanks.

RES alone doesn't cut it. Never has, never will. This horse has been beaten so badly that there are only a couple of hooves and a little piece of mane left.

So many zillions of posters, some still here (D_O, Iron Vixen, me) and some long gone (Krunch, _Havok_) conclusively proved that it was the combination of high RES AND high DEF that made INV so good.

Everybody that keeps saying that high RES and little to no def would be preferable, even to what we have now, is sadly mistaken. My Kheld has higher resists than an INV to everything except S\L. My INV Scrapper (forget about the Tank) handles large groups of Mobs better than the Kheld because of the scaling defensive factor of Invince and DP+Hasten. The Lobster needs Purples to tank effectively in groups.

Don't misunderstand, I'm pleased that TH can completely offset the UY debuff for all INV users. Like everyone else, I still wonder WHY we need it now.

PvP and your Brute…..

So, you wanna flex your SS/INV muscles in PvP, huh? I am far from a PvP expert, as I prefer PvE. But I’d like to impart a few PvP points to you……

First off, read this, Buffy's Harsh Guide to PvP realities. Then, read it again….OK? Good.

Now, here are a few more points that might bum you out a bit.

As of this writing, Fury isn’t generating against Players at the rate the player base was originally told. _Castle_ commented on this bug HERE. Fury generating at minion levels really hurts a Brute’s ability to deal damage, as no experienced PvP player will go toe-to-toe with a Brute long enough for the Brute to gain any appreciable Fury. Without appreciable Fury, Brute base damage is LOWER than a Tank’s damage. Rage helps with this some.

Brutes also have NO unresisted damage in PvP. In fact, Brutes are the only “Damage first” AT (excluding Khelds) with no unresisted damage of any type….

Blasters get 30% unresisted damage on every attack
Scrapper Critical damage is 100% unresisted
Stalker Assassin Strike damage is 100% unresisted
Corruptor “Scourge” attack damage is 100% unresisted

A Fury-less Brute in PvP will do slightly less damage than a Tank, have fewer hit points than a Tank, and Scrapper resistance numbers. The combination of low to no Fury and no unresisted damage effectively turns a Brute into “Tank-light”. This doesn’t mean that you cannot be effective in PvP. It does mean that your maximum effectiveness is going to be met when teaming or hunting squishier ATs (Defenders, Controllers, & Blasters). Without support, Brutes do not tend to fare as well against Scrappers or Tanks (ESPECIALLY Inv and Stone Tanks).

When the Fury generation issue is dealt with, Brutes will be more potent in PvP.


Slotting Philosophy

Here is an exchange from the previous version of this guide between Brachaesnethar and myself.

Brachaesnethar
“Great guide! One thing I would suggest, though, is that Damage Enhancers really aren't as needed for superstrength Brute attacks. I usually slot my attacks with two accuracy (I hate missing), one or two endurance reducers (even with Stamina three-slotted, LONG fights can drop my endurance --- could drop one Endurance reducer if you were willing to rest periodically)... and one or two recharge reducers.

That's right, NO damage enhancers. I let Fury build up my damage. I'm more concerned with hitting and not missing (accuracy), lasting a long time (endurance reducers) and attacking FAST to build Fury (recharge reducers).

I skipped Jab and don't miss it. A Disoriented foe can wander away at high speed, and isn't attacking me to build my fury. With Punch, Haymaker and Air Superiority ---- and of course Brawl on auto-fire ---- I have ZERO down time between attacks. Of course, that's only because of the two recharge enhancers those powers have (actually I think Punch only has one recharge since it is already so fast).

Everyone talks about how slow Haymaker is, but with two recharges in it, it's almost always up. Combine Air Sup, Punch and Haymaker and I routine "bounce" bosses without letting them get any attacks in at all.

I skimmed the guide, to be honest, but if it's not spelled out, I'd recommend emphasizing that BRAWL should be an auto-fire power for all Brutes. ”



Me
“I've heard the whole "Damage enhancers not required" thing from many people. IF you were going to skip them, a SS Brute with Perma-Rage would miss them the least.

Personally, I've got a small min/max in me that always slotted attacks 1 Acc/ 5 Dam back in they day. A Brute's job is Damage. I personally cannot ever see where it'd be a bad idea to 3 slot Damage in your primary attacks. 2 Acc SOs plus Perma Rage is serious overkill, unless you hunt Reds and Purps or PvP.”

I’ve come to realize that Brach was right. It took me some time to accept this concept. Brutes have a lower Damage base than Scrappers do. As a result, they get less from Enhancements then Scrappers do. Based on that fact, all Brutes should slot for Accuracy first, Endurance second, Recharge (if used at all) third, and Damage last. Fury (and, eventually, Rage) helps an SS Brute do decent damage.

Lastly, this is the Build for my current SS\INV Brute, Boombastik. At other times, I’ve used the Presence pool and Flight, but I’m really digging this version of Boom. Aid Self is a TREMENDOUS boon to Boom’s survivability, especially when fighting high level Longbow. For those for whom the whole “tricorder” thing would break their concept, Swapping in Boxing for Medicine (Punch or Kick\Tough) would help increase your survivability. IMO, Aid Self (since it heals from all types of damage) is better mitigation than Tough (which is Smash Lethal only). I think having both is overkill, but you would be one tough hombre to bring down if you did take both…..

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name: Boombastik to 50
Level: 50
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Super Strength
Secondary: Invulnerability
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01) --> Punch==> Acc(1)EndRdx(3)Rechg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(43)Dmg(43)
01) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(1)
02) --> Temp Invulnerability==> EndRdx(2)DmgRes(9)DmgRes(11)DmgRes(13)
04) --> Haymaker==> EndRdx(4)Dmg(5)Dmg(7)Dmg(7)Acc(37)Rechg(40)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Knockout Blow==> EndRdx(8)Dmg(9)Dmg(11)Dmg(13)Acc(15)Rechg(15)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(10)Rechg(17)Rechg(17)Heal(19)Heal(19)Heal(29)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(16)DmgRes(36)DmgRes(37)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)Heal(50)Heal(50)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Rage==> Rechg(22)Rechg(23)Rechg(23)TH_Buf(25)TH_Buf(25)TH_Buf(29)
24) --> Stimulant==> IntRdx(24)
26) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(26)IntRdx(27)Rechg(27)Heal(31)Heal(34)Heal(36)
28) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(28)DefBuf(36)DefBuf(37)TH_Buf(46)TH_Buf(46)EndRdx(50)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30)Rechg(31)Rechg(31)
32) --> Foot Stomp==> EndRdx(32)Acc(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(34)Rechg(34)
35) --> Jab==> Acc(35)EndRdx(46)
38) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(38)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)DmgRes(39)DmgRes(40)DmgRes(40)
41) --> Mace Blast==> Acc(41)EndRdx(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(43)Rechg(45)
44) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(44)DefBuf(45)DefBuf(45)
47) --> Web Envelope==> Acc(47)EndRdx(48)Rechg(48)Immob(48)
49) --> Taunt==> Taunt(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------

Hope you enjoyed this info. As always, please feel free to add your comments. If I missed something, bring it to my attention, so I can update it later.

Power Pools:

Invulnerable (and Energy) Brutes have the most flexibility regarding Power Pool choices. Since both of these Brutes have comprehensive Status protection in their secondaries, neither is “forced” into a specific Travel Pool to offset a weakness. Unyielding gives protection to Knockback, which Dark and Fire Brutes would LOVE to have. Electric Armor Brutes also have Knockback protection (in Grounded), but the protection only works if you are on, or near the ground. Generally speaking, Fire and Dark Brutes (and PvP-centric Electric Armor Brutes) usually get the Leaping pool to get the Knockback protection in Acrobatics. Many Stone Brutes get Teleportation, since you cannot jump or fly when using Rooted.

IMHO, there is truly only 1 mandatory Power Pool for the SS/INV Brute. That would be the Fitness pool. There are a few Brute builds that have Endurance recovery powers in their Primaries and/or Secondaries that make Stamina less needed (or unneeded). Unfortunately, SS/INV doesn’t. It is VERY important to get Stamina as soon as you can. I personally recommend getting it at 20. As a Brute, it’s important to keep on moving to keep your Fury up. Stamina cuts your downtime drastically. I (foolishly) waited until 24 to get it on my Brute, and even with just the default slot, the difference was very noticeable.

I’ll mention the other Power Pools and give a quick overview as to their effectiveness for the SS/INV Brute:

Concealment – Concealment has some uses in PvP to let you sneak up to Heroes and SMASH them. Limited use for PvE.

Fighting – Fighting is great for picking up some extra S/L Resistance via Tough. Boxing is a good a filler attack to build up Fury. I wouldn’t recommend Weave, as Tough Hide gives better Defense without using Endurance.

Flight – Air Superiority is arguably the best Power Pool attack in the game. Damage is OK, but AS really shines in the fact that there is an extremely high chance of knocking down your Foe. Combined with the Knockdown present in most SS powers, you can effectively play “Boss Pinball” by keeping tough enemies off of their feet. Flight is a safe, albeit somewhat slow, travel choice.

Leadership – In PvE, the percentages are low for the benefits derived. Leadership has much more PvP plusses.

Leaping – Super Jump is a very Brute-ish travel power. Combat Jumping is a great power for the extra defense and mobility.

Medicine – Aid Self can really help a Brute to keep his HP high while Dull Pain is recycling. I’m a recent convert to the usage of this pool. In PvP, this is a very good choice for a Brute to pickup. It also has usage in PvE when fighting high level Critters.

Presence – Intimidate and Invoke Panic are real PvP plusses. Very few players have Fear protection. The Presence Pool can be used effectively in PvE as well.

Speed – Hasten does allow you to attack with your big guns more frequently, which is always a good thing. Super Speed’s lack of vertical movement makes it a little less desirable in CoV than in CoH. Hasten isn’t a slam dunk pick anymore, but it is still very desirable.

Teleportation – Recall Friend is a power that teammates love! Teleport Foe is a great PvP power. Imagine this…..

Pop Rage. Teleport a Squishy to you. Hit him with K.O. Blow. Hold takes effect. Beat down Squishy with impunity. If the Squishy files away, TP Foe him again. Rinse and repeat!

Patron Power Pools (New for I7):

I7 introduced Patron Power Pools (henceforth referred to as PPPs). PPPs are the Villain equivalent to the Ancillary Power Pools Heroes get access to in Levels 40 – 50. PPPs are meant to “round out” your Character, by giving that Character access to Powers that offset inherent weaknesses in your AT. For example, Brute attacks are primarily Melee ranged. PPPs give Brutes access to Ranged attacks. SS Brutes do have a Ranged attack in their Primary (Hurl), but all of their Damage is Smashing. All of the Brute PPPs offer Attack types other than Smashing.

In the minds of many, PPPs suffer from 3 major flaws:

1. Permanence: Unlike Hero APPs, Villain PPPs CANNOT BE CHANGED ONCE CHOSEN. The reason the Devs gave for this was that future contacts were tied to the Patron you chose. This also means that NOT choosing a Patron would cut you out of a significant part of the endgame, including the ability to get Hamidon-Origin equivalent enhancements (A requirement to do the Lord Recluse SF is that you have a Patron Badge).

2. Lack of Diversity: Because the PPPs are permanent, the Devs decided to make the pools essentially clones of each other. This keeps someone from unknowingly gimping their Character. For instance, all of the Brute PPPs offer 1 single target ranged attack, 1 ranged immobilize, 1 ranged AoE attack, and 1 pet. This shuts Villains out of some of the better utility Powers available to the Heroes (i.e. Focused Accuracy, Conserve Power, Force of Nature, Psychic Mastery).

It also means that the Patron Powers may not mesh well with someone’s chosen Power set (i.e. No Fire Mastery, no Cold Mastery, no Earth Mastery). The Hero APPs are sufficiently varied enough to allow for virtually any concept you want.

3. Role play: Many people find the fact that you essentially MUST choose a Patron to limit their creativity. Many just don’t want to “swear allegiance” to ANYONE in game. Especially not to Arachnos!

I’m of the opinion that the PPPs aren’t going to change, as if any one PPP IS markedly better than any of the others, people would be upset if they couldn’t respec into it. Since they are all essentially equivalent, there is no “right” choice for Brutes regarding the PPPs. If you PvP, many Brutes that do seem to favor Black Scorpion’s Web Grenade, since that power has a –fly and –jump component to it.

Invulnerability:

Back in Issues 3 and 4, Invulnerability was at its zenith. The Devs removed the rooting effect from Unyielding Stance (renaming it to “Unyielding) and allow Unyielding to stack with Temporary Invulnerability. These changes made Invulnerability in general, and Tanker Invulnerability in specific, peerless. Mobile mez protection and the ability to essentially cap Resistance to all Damage types, except Psi and Toxic, made Invulnerable Tanks virtually unkillable. Also worthy of note, Invincibility’s defensive boost was better unslotted than it is 6 Slotted today.

Changes to Invulnerability in Issue 5 cut the values of all Resistance and Defense drastically and ED cut it even further. Now, Invulnerability is a shadow of its former self.

That doesn’t mean that Invulnerability is a bad set. It’s just nowhere near as good as it used to be. Invulnerability gives great Resistance to Smashing and Lethal damage, but is very light in Energy, Fire, Cold, and Toxic damage and is completely defenseless to Psionics.

As a Brute, the goal of your Defense is to allow you to survive long enough to SMASH. You don’t need to survive as long as a Tank, because things are going to drop much faster around you than around a Tank.

Brute resistance values are the same as a Scrapper, which is 75% of the value of a Tanker. Devs have confirmed that Brutes actually have the same 90% Resistance cap as Tankers. Invulnerable and Electric Armor Brutes are the only ones that can reach this cap alone, albeit much later in the game.

Now, the powers…..

1. Resist Physical Damage (Default at Level 1) – You have to take this. You have no choice. RPD is a good, not great power, as it gives you a Base of 5.63% resistance to Smashing and Lethal damage. Since it’s a passive power, it uses no Endurance. By itself, you won’t notice anything, but it layers well with all of your other S/L Resistance.

IF you decide to slot it, slot no more than 3 SOs.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 5.63%
3 slotted Resistance – 8.78%
6 slotted Resistance – 9.28%

Slotting: 1-3 slots. Resistance only.

2. Temporary Invulnerability (Available at Level 2) – This is one of your most important powers. It gives you a base of 22.5% against S/L damage. S/L is the most prevalent type of damage in the game. This is usually the first defensive power chosen. It does cost Endurance to run. Early in your career, you’ll be slotting it with Endurance reducers.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 22.50% (Smash/Lethal)
3 slotted Resistance – 35.10%
6 slotted Resistance – 37.13%
End Cost – .13 per Secs
Activation Time – .67 Secs
Recharge Time – 2.00 Secs

Slotting: 3 - 4 slots. 0 – 1 End, 3 Resistance

3. Dull Pain (Available at Level 4) – This power is also vital for your protection. Dull Pain used to increase your Base hit points by 40% and slotting it with Heal enhancers allowed you to boost your Health regen rate. Recent changes to the power now have Heal enhancers actually ADDING hit points on top of the initial 40% boost.

This power is effectively your Psionic protection, your Energy protection, your Toxic protection, your Elemental protection. 40+ % extra hit points are nothing to sneeze at. This is a 6 slot power, if there ever was one.

Base Numbers:
End Cost – 10.4
Activation Time – .73
Recharge Time – 360 Secs
Duration – 120 Secs

Slotting: 6 slots. 3 Recharge, 3 Heal

4. Resist Elements (Available at Level 10) – Like RPD, this power gives you a Base of 5.63% resistance to Fire and Cold damage. Many feel that Invulnerability’s passive powers aren’t worth getting or slotting. Personally, I think there are other powers I’d prefer to have than this.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 5.63% (Fire, Cold, Toxic)
3 slotted Resistance – 8.78%
6 slotted Resistance – 9.28%

Slotting: 1-3 slots. Resistance only.

5. Unyielding (Available at Level 16) – This is your Status protection. Arguably, it is your most important defensive power because being stunned, held, or disoriented shuts down all of your defensive toggles. Defeat usually ensues if this happens.

Unyielding does give you some minor resistance to all damage types (except Psionics), but it is offset by a 5% Defensive Debuff that you incur when using the power. The debuff seems like overkill after the I5 and ED. Initially, I’d only single slot this power. I consider this my Status protection only and consider the extra Resistance as gravy. Eventually, you should consider slotting this power up.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 3.75% (Smash/Lethal)/ 7.5% (Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
3 slotted Res – 5.85% (Smash/Lethal)/ 11.7% (Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
6 slotted Res – 6.19% (Smash/Lethal)/ 12.38% (Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
End Cost – .13 per Secs
Activation Time – 2.33 Secs
Recharge Time – 10.00 Secs
Status Resistance – Disorient, Hold, Knockback, Immobilize, Sleep – Mag 10.38

Slotting: 3 - 4 slots. 0 – 1 End, 3 Resistance

6. Resist Energies (Available at Level 20) – Same as the other passives.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 5.63% (Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
3 slotted Resistance – 8.78%
6 slotted Resistance – 9.28%

Slotting: 1-3 slots. Resistance only.

7. Invincibility (Available at Level 28) – This used to be THE power in the set. Now, it’s just good. Invincibility gives you increased Defense and an Increased To Hit Buff when surrounded by enemies. It also gives off a low-level Taunt, which keeps enemies stuck to you. The power used to give a flat % increase for each foe in range, but it’s been recently changed to give the bulk of its defense with a few people in range. The increase caps at 10 enemies.

For a SS/INV Brute, slotting for Defense is more important than for To Hit Buffs. Slotting for Taunt might not be a bad idea, but you don’t want too much aggro.

Base Numbers:
End Cost – .208 per Secs
Activation Time – 3 Secs
Recharge Time – 10.00 Secs
Range – 8’ Radius
To Hit Buff - 2% Buff for each Foe in Range, up to 10 Foes
Defense Buff – 3.75% Buff vs. all attacks for first Foe in Range (except Psi); additional 1.1% Buff for each additional Foe in Range, up to 10 Foes

Slotting: 3 - 5 slots. 0 – 1 End, 0 – 1 Taunt, 3 Defense Buffs

8. Tough Hide (Available at Level 35) – This passive gives you some defense against all attack types (except Psionics). It can almost eliminate the Defense Debuff caused by Unyielding. Tough Hide is arguably the most helpful passive you have. It’d be nice if it came a little sooner in the build. You should probably at least take it with the default slot. You can slot it up later, if you like.

Base Numbers:
Base Defense – 3.75% Buff vs. all attacks (except Psi)
3 slotted Defense – 5.85%
6 slotted Defense – 6.19%

Slotting: 1-3 slots. Defense Buff only.

9. Unstoppable (Available at Level 38) – Unstoppable allows an Invulnerable Brute (assuming you keep your toggle defenses up) to reach Tanker resistance caps to ALL Damage Types, except Psi. Unstoppable gives you 3 minutes of extremely high resistance and incredible End regeneration. Since it’s a Click power, it cannot be detoggled in PvP.

Imagine, the mere thought of capped resists, limitless endurance, Rage, and a full Fury bar……..wicked.

Of course, there is the matter of the Crash. Unstoppable drains 90% of you HP and all of your Endurance when it drops. It also keeps you from recovering Endurance for 15 seconds afterward.

When it was possible to cap resistance without Unstoppable, it fell into disfavor. Now, it’s the only way to cap non S/L damage. Many dislike the crash, so it’s very much an optional pickup. I have it, and I love it.

Base Numbers:
Base Resistance – 52.5% (Smash/Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
3 slotted Res – 81.9% (Smash/Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
6 slotted Res – 86.63% (Smash/Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, N. Energy, Toxic)
End Cost – 2.6
Activation Time – 3.1 Secs
Recharge Time – 1000 Secs
Duration – 180 Secs
Status Resistance – Repel, Knockback, Knockup
Status Resistance - Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep – Mag 17.3
Endurance Recovery – 100% Recovery Rate Increase

Slotting: 4 - 6 slots. 3 Recharge, 1 – 3 Resistance

In September 2004, there was a poster (Shadione) who made the salient comment, “Scrappers? Tankers? I just want to Punch the Bejeezus out of stuff!” I don’t believe Shadione is still with us, but if he/she was, Shadione would be a Brute!

This guide specifically deals with the Character I consider to be THE Iconic Super Person…The SS/INV Brute. This version of the Guide considers some of the recent I7 changes to the character, as well as updated Power numbers (directly from the Devs) listed in the recently released Prima Strategy guide. Frequent Board Posters Lazarus and Foo have excellent guides on Brutes in General. Anybody new to the Boards interested in Brutes should definitely check their Guides out. I’m assuming that everyone reading this Guide is familiar with the “Brawl Index” and how it scales damage. If you’re not familiar with the concept, you can search the Boards for how it works. Basically, the higher the BI, the greater the SMASH!

In my opinion, Brutes are what Scrappers and Tankers should have been in the first place. In fact, it is common knowledge to people that have been around from I1 that the whole Brute AT was birthed from the fertile minds of frustrated Tankers that felt their damage was sub par. Fury was initially going to be given to Tankers, but the Devs found it to be too unbalancing. Hence, Tankers never got it, but Brutes did as their Inherent Power!

Brutes are big, tough Jokers who lay a world of hurt on anyone foolish enough to tangle with them. It should’ve been obvious that big, tough Jokers that “Punch the Bejeezus” out of stuff are staple characters in Comic Book lore. In CoH, Scrappers laid the hurt, but either used weapons or had “darkity darkness” pulsating form their fists. Tankers had the attacks that screamed “Punch the Bejeezus” (Stone and the Iconic Super Strength sets in particular) but, they were “meh” due to lower damage output.

Brutes get these attacks as PRIMARIES, which means the better attacks are available much earlier than their Tanker counterparts (Hello K.O. Blow at 8!). Fury, which mimics the whole “The Madder I get, The STRONGER I get!” thing is perfect for this AT.

I’m going to go into my opinion as to how the SS/INV Brute should be built. As with all Guides, nothing in here should be taken as Gospel. Hopefully, you’ll find something useful in here for your fledgling Brute. There are few new things for an SS/INV Brute to consider in I7. Specifically, these items are Patron Power pools and PvP effectiveness.


Super Strength:

Before starting……

There are many people that think SS is a gimped set since it only deals Smashing damage and Smashing is among the most resisted damage types in the Game, for both PvE and PvP. According to those people, Smashing resistance is available to any AT that wants to invest in some Power Pools to get it.

This guide is primarily for PvE. The PvP section will deal with some of the issues plaguing SS Brutes there. In PvE, SS is a mighty fine set. It is less so in PvP, particularly against INV and Stone Tankers, but still pretty potent.

Wherever possible, I’ve updated the Power numbers with info from the Prima Guide. I’m using Sherk Silver’s CoH/CoV Hero Builder program to fill in any gaps. Thanks to Sherk Silver for this great program. Special thanks also to Sword, BuffyASummers, Iron Vixen, Foo, Lazarus, Arcanaville (her most awesome Mathiness), and everyone else that contributed a ton of numbers for me to crib little bits of to bring life to this guide.

On to the Powers…..

1. Jab – (Available at Lvl 1) Jab gets a bad rap, as it only does minor damage. People tend to forget that Jab recharges Crazy fast and can disorient a foe. The quick, consistent damage can add up. As a Brute, fast attacks are important. The faster you attack, the more Fury you generate. With the level cap now set at 50, Jab is an excellent choice as a Fury building attack. If you pick up Jab, setting it as your default attack will allow it to be thrown virtually every other attack. If you decide to skip Jab, Brawl works pretty well as a Fury builder too.

Base Numbers:
BI – 1.889 (3.4 with Rage)
End Cost - 3.536
Activation Time – 1.07 Secs
Recharge Time – 2.00 Secs
Status Effects – Disorient (Foe) – 10% chance for a 6 Sec Disorient

Slotting: 1-2 slots. 1 Acc or 1 End

2. Punch – (Available at Lvl 1) Punch is one of your Bread and Butter attacks. Punch recharges twice as long as Jab. Punch is one of the many SS attacks that have the potential to knock your opponent down, or back. In earlier levels, Knockdown helps to keep your enemies on their behind, which helps to keep you alive. This attack is virtually never skipped. Slot it and love it…..

Base Numbers:
BI – 2.778 (5.0 with Rage)
End Cost – 5.2
Activation Time – 1.20 Secs
Recharge Time – 4.00 Secs
Status Effects – Knockdown (Foe) – 30% chance for a Knockdown

Slotting: 4-5 slots. 1 Acc and/or 1End, 3 Dam

3. Haymaker – (Available at Lvl 2) Haymaker is a double-fisted hammer smash that has a longer recharge time, but does some serious damage. This attack is also almost always taken, but can be pushed back if there are other things you want to get early. This is for two reasons:

i. Slower Charging attacks generate Fury much slower than quickly recharging ones. In lower levels, Fury generation is where a Brute gets the majority of its damage

ii. SS gets its SMASH attack (K.O. Blow) much sooner than other Brutes do.

Base Numbers:
BI – 4.556 (8.2 with Rage)
End Cost – 8.528
Activation Time – 1.50 Secs
Recharge Time – 8.00 Secs
Status Effects – Knockdown (Foe) – 60% chance for a Knockdown

Slotting: 4-5 slots. 1 Acc and/or 1End, 3 Dam

4. Hand Clap - (Available at Lvl 6) This power is useful when you bite off more than you can chew. Merely retreating doesn’t always keep you from face planting. The main drawback with this power is it does ZERO damage. It can knock back and/or disorient a group long enough for you to get away from a dangerous spot. I like it a lot, but some can find problems fitting it into their builds. The 2 trains of thought on this power are to either slot it minimally, or HEAVILY. There is a 20% Accuracy penalty on this power.

Base Numbers:
BI – N/A
End Cost – 13.00
Activation Time – 1.23 Secs
Recharge Time – 30.00 Secs
Status Effects – Knockback (Foe) – 100%
Disorient (Foe) – 100% chance for 8 sec. 2.38 Mag vs. Critters\50% chance for 8 sec. 1.19 Mag vs. Critters\100% for 6 sec. 3.57 Mag vs. Players


Slotting: 1-2 slots. 1 Acc, 1 Disorient and/or 1 End OR 5 -6 slots. 1-2 Acc, 1-2 Rech, 1-2 Disorient


5. K.O. Blow - (Available at Lvl 8) This power is one of the main reasons you choose Super Strength. This is your BFG! This is the power that makes you smile if it hits and cringe when you miss. Every Brute, except Dark, gets at least 1 Extreme damage attack (Dark has extra utility and 2 really good damage attacks). The beautiful thing about K.O. Blow is it comes at least 10 levels earlier than any other Extreme damage attack.

For example, SS Tankers get K.O. Blow at Lvl 20, Stone Brutes gets their Extreme attack at 18, Fire at 32, and Energy gets 2 Extreme damage attacks (18 & 32). These guys will eventually catch up, and may surpass, your BFG later. But, you get to have fun at Level 8! This attack will lay out Minions and Lts. With Moderate Fury and will put a serious hurt on any Bosses you hit it with. (It’s also fun to see people fly in the air with the rag doll physics engine and flop to the floor!)

There is an undocumented (I think) Accuracy boost of 20% with this attack, so it hits often. Another sometimes overlooked benefit to K.O. Blow is it has a Hold component to it. So, usually when it hits, the beneficiary is stuck for a few seconds. This gives you more time to SMASH them. K.O. Blow is usable to start fights against tough foes, but really shines as a Finisher when you have at least 40% of your Fury bar.

K.O. Blow is Brute – iful! Slot it up!

Base Numbers:
BI – 9.889 (17.8 with Rage)
End Cost – 18.512
Activation Time – 2.23 Secs
Recharge Time – 25.00 Secs
Status Effects – Knockup (Foe) – 100%
Hold - Major (Foe) – 100% for 10 sec. 3.57 Mag vs. Critters\100% for 6 sec. 3.57 Mag vs. Players

Slotting: 5-6 slots. 0-1 Acc, 1-2 Recharge, 1-2 End, 3 Dam

6. Taunt - (Available at Lvl 12) There is an ongoing dispute as to whether or not Taunt is needed for Tankers, much less for Brutes. Brutes cannot stand the Aggro heat as well as Tankers can, so Taunt isn’t seen as a priority for Brutes. Taunt can help save a fellow Villain’s bacon and is moderately useful in PvP. In defense of Taunt, it can help a Brute that regularly teams up immensely in keeping Aggro. Aggro=Fury.

Base Numbers:
BI – N/A
End Cost – N/A
Activation Time – 1.67 Secs
Recharge Time – 10 Secs
Range – 70 Ft.
Status Effects – Taunt (Foe) – 20 sec Duration vs. Critters\5 sec Duration vs. Players

Slotting: 1 Slot. 1 Acc and/or 1 Recharge

7. Rage - (Available at Lvl 18) You will love Rage when you get it. All of the Brute Primaries have a power to give you a temporary boost to Accuracy and Damage. Most have Build Up, which is a 10 second boost with a 90 second recharge. Dark has Dark Consumption, which damages others and gives extra Accuracy and Damage to the user. Rage is, special.

Rage has a 2 Minute duration with a 4 Minute recharge. While Raging, you get an 80% boost to your Base damage and a (Dev confirmed) 20% boost to you Base accuracy. At one time, the number was thought to be MUCH higher (in the 50% range), but it is still a very formidable To Hit Buff. When it wears off, you receive a moderate drop in End, a moderate Self - Defense Debuff, and you are unable to use any powers that affect others for 10 seconds.

Despite these disadvantages, Rage is great because you can effectively make the power permanent with 3 Recharge SOs. Rage can help you cap to virtually anything you’d need to hit in PvE (around +4’s) with only 1 Accuracy slotted in each attack. Rage also helps immensely in PvP.

IMHO, Rage is THE defining power in SS. As cool as Rage is, you might have to push it back for a few levels to get Stamina. (IMHO, Stamina is required for Brutes). But don’t put it off too long. 3 Slotting for Recharge is essential and, if desired, you can add some To Hit Buffs as well.

Base Numbers:
BI – N/A
End Cost – 5.2
Activation Time – 1.17 Secs
Recharge Time – 240 Secs
Status Effects – Damage (Self) +Dmg (80%)
Accuracy (Self) +Acc (20%)
Defense Debuff (Self) – 20% Defense debuff
Endurance Crash (Self) – 25 Endurance lost

Slotting: 3-6 slots. 0-3 To Hit Buffs, 3 Recharge.

8. Hurl - (Available at Level 26) Hurl is the only ranged attack in your Primary. You basically rip a big chunk out of the ground and throw it at someone. A big plus is you can knock fliers out of the sky with it. Its damage is consistent with Haymaker. It’s a decent pick for later in the build. It’s a great PvP power, but some choose TP Foe for that purpose instead. The animation is LOOOOOOONG, so it likely won’t be a huge part of your attack chain.

Base Numbers:
BI – 4.56 (8.2 with Rage)
End Cost – 9.36
Activation Time – 3.83 Secs
Recharge Time – 8 Secs
Range – 80 Ft.
Status Effects – Knockback (Foe) – 50% chance for Knockback\100% chance for disabled Flight (Foe)

Slotting: 3-4 slots. 1 Acc, 1 End, and 1-2 Range

9. Foot Stomp - (Available at Level 32) The last power in the set. It’s your only Damage AoE attack, so you’re most likely going to take it. People in a circle 15 ft. around you feel the hurt when you stomp. Damage is more than Punch, less than Haymaker. By the time you get this power, you are rounding in to your Defenses. Foot Stomp damages and knocks people down. An old SS Tanker I used to regularly team with referred to his Rage-Fueled Foot Stomp as his “Blender of Doom”. This power sucks End like crazy, but is definitely worth slotting up.

Base Numbers:
BI – 3.94 (7.1 with Rage)
End Cost – 18.512
Activation Time – 2.1 Secs
Recharge Time – 20 Secs
Range – AoE 15 Ft.
Status Effects – 80% chance for Knockdown (Foe)

Slotting: 5 - 6 slots. 0 - 1 Acc, 1 End, 0 – 1 Recharge, 3 Dam

On to Invulnerability…

I enjoyed the EM/ELA Brute I rolled up last night. Solid damage and resistance to most. I completely loved the fact that the /EM Blappers were doing JACK damage to me !

I concur with others that ELA shouldn't have resists any higher than they are now. Since ELA can self cap to Energy, higher S/L resists would likely be unbalancing.

I can also see that Aid Self would pretty much be required to survive a Power Surge drop.

[ QUOTE ]
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Hyperbole? Not at all. When dueling other melee characters, I found it very easy to constantly knock toggles off with just brawl. I mean, only a 33% chance, but since I was spamming it like crazy, I could whittle a DA scrapper's defenses down to the minimum and then smack him around with all my knockdown/up and mez powers (yay stone melee).

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Is it really 33%, because I recently went to see how good brawl was at dropping toggles and we got something closer to 20%?

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Whichever it was, I was able to detoggle melee opponents fairly easily with just brawl.

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If I could, in two seconds, knock out two toggles, with a very high chance to get three, a moderate chance to get four, and a low chance to get five on top of probably stacking a stun that might land through knocked out mez shield, I don't see how any melee character could retoggle in any decent amount of time.


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If you are fighting a squishy, I don't see why any melee character would need to re-toggle.

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Bonesmasher - Energy Punch - Total Focus - attack - attack - attack

That is mathematically likely to leave the melee target unable to react due to having the hell stunned out of him and the number of toggles the first two attacks will drop. So this melee character who has a mez shield and probably has defense or resistance against the incoming damage loses those advantages in two hits.

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Absolutely; you don't see the developers shedding a tear over it do you? You didn't see them come out and say that perhaps some of the other blaster secondary sets will be getting a change soon did you? I didn't. I know they are thinking about re-working them, but that is pie in the sky.

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I saw Statesman come out and say several months ago that the blaster secondaries will be reworked. Not thinking about, but that it will happen.

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Well, I admit that the math from Blueeyed and my own personal experiences is probably not enough of arguement for the melee proponents in this game but that is all I have. Just the numbers and my own experiences to back me up. What have you got?

*looks back at the pro-nerf arguements*

Oh, it seems alot of whine. Here, the developers handed you your cheese, I hope you enjoy it while it lasts.

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First, I don't recall much beyond a hell of a lot of emotional appeals from you and Blueeyed in the older threads or in the I7 threads. I remember arguments that defenders would suck if the two sets that had reliable toggle-droppers lost them, and perhaps some pie-in-the-sky reasoning that the devs might add toggle-droppers to the less advantaged in PVP sets like Dark Miasma...

But math? I recall very little beyond the TA/A vs. Regen test.

Second, there's more to the argument against toggle-dropping than whining. You've acknowledged as much when you admitted that TD isn't a fun mechanic. Unfortunately you're so tied up in the idea that this mechanic is necessary for balance that you're not really willing to entertain that there are valid arguments to remove it.

After all:

- On live, there's a have/have-not dichotomy where some powersets get a lot of toggle-dropping potential, often with good mezzing to back it up. Not only do you have a good chance to drop toggles, you can leverage that by mezzing your target if you knock off the right shields. This makes balancing these sets more difficult as well as encourages FotM PVP builds

- The fact is that a significant portion of every melee character's build is tied up in toggle defenses. By including a mechanic that renders those toggles pointless much of the time, you're effectively cheating those players out of those power choices. As _Castle_ has reportedly said, melee should play PVP as if they don't have shields.

- Despite protests to the contrary, the core of the pro-toggle dropping argument is that 1v1 PVP is unfair between squishies and melee, to the point of claiming that squishies simply cannot defeat melee characters without having toggle-dropping available. One of the older threads was repeatedly marked with insistence that a blaster can't solo a tanker is unfair, but followed with "if a tanker has problems taking on buld X, get a team to help." Apparently, squishies shouldn't ever need teams to accomplish their PVP goals.

- Toggle-dropping is not in genre. I mean, do you remember that time when Starfire blasted Superman and suddenly he fell out of the sky? Yeah, neither do I.

- Toggle-dropping was introduced in issue 4, when invuln and stone tankers could cap their resists without outside help, and invuln could also reach very high defense with bugged invincibility. Ice Armor was still able to reach a very high defense with Energy Absorption. In conditions like that, toggle-dropping is an end run around those powers to enable characters to overcome those defenses. In issue 5, defenses were reduced across the board. No defense primary or secondary was able to match the numbers they'd reached before. In issue 6, ED reduced those numbers further, compounding the GDR in issue 5. I realize that many would counter that damage also suffered from ED - and this is true. However, damage was not reduced in issue 5 before being reduced again in issue 6. The simple fact is that defenses were hit twice, and the first hit magnifies the result of the second. If toggle-dropping was balanced in issue 4, it is most assuredly not balanced now.

- The most common argument pro-TD posters produce is "I hate those damned dirty melee characters for whining and getting us all nerfed."

I admit that the last gives me a certain amount of schadenfreude given all the ungracious gloating that flooded the forum after various melee nerfs. It's funny how quick the tune changes when the shoes on the other foot and all.

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CLAP, CLAP, CLAP.

Thx Kali! Couldn't agree with you more!

It's a dead issue at this point, because the Devs agree with our side. Toggle Dropping WILL be curtailed. The only question is, by how much?

Lower the percentage possibilities of TD proportionally to what melee toons lost after I5 and GDR...Boom! Problem solved.

BTW, what the heck is schadenfreude?

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I have a suggestion, but I don't know how much this would take to apply

While the toggle drop values seem a little low right now(i think def, corr and 1st power of a dom should have a little better chance) (i also think the dom 2nd power should be a bit lower like 33% maybe)I think there would be a perfect way to still actually have people think it's worth it to get in there for toggle drops even though the danger has increased significantly for squishies

I think there should be a 2 minute recharge debuff on any power that has been toggle dropped, otherwise toggle drops dont mean much to tanks and such as they can throw it back on in 2 seconds, this way any tank that has a toggle dropped would be in a bit of danger and actually get scared

lemme know wut u think of this

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Ummmmmmmm.......No.

If I could hit a Blaster with a power that made them unable to use their offense for 2 minutes, would you think that'd be fair?

No anger here, just a little righteous indignation .

I've railed against the injustices of extreme TD ever since ED and GDR.

If a Blaster has extreme Damage attacks in his Secondary that are better than my Primary, MY Defensive secondary shouldn't be able to be completely bypassed through TD.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, any 100% TD attack is ridiculously overpowered in the CoX world we currently live in.

Edited to add the following: IMO, the proposed change isn't an overcorrection. It's the required correction (2 issues too late) to fix a defensive inequity that no longer existed after I5 and GDR.

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No my stance boils down to, Blasters shouldn't outmelee melee based ATs.


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And this is the attitude that I’ve challenged here and elsewhere.

Blasters shouldn’t outmelee melee based AT’s? Then why oh why did the devs put so many melee attacks into blaster secondaries? The brute players in this thread repeatedly say “Why should my whole secondary be negated?” Well… why should blasters’ secondaries be negated?

Let’s look an */energy, since that’s one that gets so much attention.

You have:
Power Thrust
Energy Punch
Build Up
Bone Smasher
Conserve Power
Stun
Power Boost
Boost Range
Total Focus

Out of 9 powers, that’s 5 melee attacks. And ZERO ranged attacks.

The other blaster secondaries are also heavily weighted toward melee attacks, except for devices. And even those blaster secondary attacks that are not, technically, beating on someone with your fists are zero or very close to zero range.


So here’s my challenge:

(1) Explain exactly WHY an AT with so many melee powers in all their different secondaries should not be effective in melee.

(2) Explain exactly WHY it is bad for a brute’s secondary powers to be ineffective in PvP, but it’s OK for blasters’ secondaries to be made ineffective.

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And your point is????????

Some Tanks have AoE attacks in their secondaries. Spines and Claw Scrappers have ranged attacks. Ranged attacks are available in the PPP's as well. They do damage. Should they out-damage a Blaster's ranged attack or AoE? No. Why? Because Ranged, AoE, and PBAoE attacks are not the specialties of Melee fighters. Those attacks are Blaster Specialties.

You mentioned Brutes. Without Fury, Brute base damage is LESS than a Tanker. In those cases, a Blaster's secondary does MORE damage than a Brute's primary. Is that OK with you? Probably is. As a Brute player, I frankly think that bites!

Many Blaster melee attacks (Secondary) have HIGHER BI numbers than a Scrapper, Tanker, or a Brute (Primary). Do you have a problem with that? Probably not.

Most Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers deal primarily S/L, which is far more resisted than your typical ENG Blapper's Bonesmasher. In the case of the Brute and Tanker, the damage is Fully Resistable. In the case of the Scrapper, you get the occasional Crit. Blaster damage is ALWAYS 30% unresisted. Do you have a problem with that? Probably not.

Blaster melee attacks ARE NOT being made more ineffective. Necessary corrections are being made so a MELEE AT can actually be BETTER at MELEE than a non-Melee AT. Do you have a problem with that? You shouldn't.

Antigonus,

Ever stop to think WHY you haven't seen too many Tanks in Arena and in PvP????????????

Insane Toggle Dropping totally neutering their Primaries, that's why!

IF this does go through, I have a Lvl 38 INV/EM that I'll be taking out of mothballs in a New York Minute!

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...I, and many others, agree. The point isn't "100% is just fine! WTH are you doing Devs?!!?" The point is "without a dependable source of toggle drop, my chances to win are marginal, at best. 22\5% is to low"

This nerf is almost exactly what the Devs did to End drain. Even though they promised us End Drain would shine in PvP, it was nerfed to hell, mostly because an opponent with no end cant fight back, not much fun for PvP. Similar to end drain, the nerf here goes to far. It keeps the mechanics in the game so these devs who are far removed from the playing experience can say "look they still have a chance to drop toggles! all is well." just like they say "look they can still drain endurence! all is well."

Anyways, i think most of the complaints are saying the nerf was to much, not that the nerf shouldn't have happened.

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The point that DO and others are trying to make is that the whole Toggle-drop kludge WAS a nerf. At the time, IMHO, it was a necessary nerf.

Back when I could get 88% Res against Elements/Energy AND 90% Res to S/L AND mobile mez protection AND Dull Pain recycling every 2 minutes as an INV/EM Tank in I3 - I4, toggle drops were required. If toggles weren't droppable, NO squishies would have a chance. Toggle dropping SHOULD have been dropped to these levels IMMEDIATELY after the double whammy of ED and GDR. Those things made the same resists drop to about 27% or so for non S/L and 67 for S/L (That includes taking, and 3 slotting ALL of the Passives, which stink).

Toggle dropping percentages never should have been 22% when these changes hit. The real problem is it shouldn't have taken from I5 to I7 to fix this.

I'm sure the numbers will probanly be adjusted up. Forgive me if I don't feel terrible for them to wait until I9 for the fix to go in.
Nobody complaining here felt to bad for melee people when GDR cut them off at the knees.