Judgement_Dave

Awww, AP... You can't take them all down just like that... well - you can, of course... but you can't... snofair.

If you do continue as planned: Can you give us an idea when you're taking down your existing arcs?

I've actually been looking forwards to your arcs, but have been running through the CityOfGuides listing in arc id order... I'll only confuse myself if I jump about willy-nilly but want to make sure I catch them before they vanish!

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Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?


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To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.

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Although Posi's "we'll do TF's, you lot do missions!" statement was a tad worrying.


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Do you mean this exchange?

04-28-2009 18:05:29 [Local] Myopic Aardvark: Was looking for more story (as in arcs, rather than TFs)
04-28-2009 18:06:08 [Local] Positron: We could write Arcs, but with MA out there, we'd rather write TF/SF's

If so I see the key word to be 'rather'. He doesn't say that they won't write arcs just that they'd rather write TF/SFs.

I'll probably have chicken and chips for dinner tonight - I've got some in and it needs eating. I'd rather have duck and hoi sin wraps. But I'll still eat the chicken and enjoy it.

Now I think that probably means we'll get the arcs explaining new zones/factions/organisations and TF/SFs but not much by way of additional old style arcs beyond that. Heck - we'll probably see the odd makeover, a la Hollows, with a new contact (though possibly repeatable missions rather than arcs). And if any new EATs come in then I'd imagine that they'd have some unique arc content as well.

That doesn't really bother me too much...

1. A new zone could see a few new contacts offering arcs - so I could see a reasonable amount of new arc content coming.

2. The coming storm will see new arcs as it comes closer then arrives... Probably by the new factions/organisations clause. You just can't throw too much at players with only TF/SFs to explain it... and if the Coming Storm turns out to be the world changing event that it should be then it'll need the odd arc (or at least mini-arc) outside of TF/SFs...

3. Spending more time on TF/SFs would hopefully give the devs more time to devote to the cuning tricks and unique maps/tactics that can make TF/SFs really stand out - the type of thing that you just never get in arcs/normal missions. Look at Katie/Hess/STF/ITF (and probably most SFs - but I've still only done a couple of them )

The opposite side of this is that (when the MA settles down and the whey can be seperated) the players can now create stories/arcs with many (most?) of the tools/tricks used by the devs for their normal arcs - but the players have an advantage. By sheer numbers and diversity they will eventually write arcs that you think are better than at least 95% of dev-created arcs. It's the infinite monkeys effect... the 50+ devs imaginations cannot compete with hundreds of thousands of players' imaginations. And, if they want to write good arcs, as time goes on the players will get better at the writing/construction side. On a level playing field with the same mission-construction tools, tips & tricks the players will eventually win.

So let the devs excel at the bits that players can't do. The bits that let the devs work really shine and stand out. The bits that create those Wow! moments (Hess anyone?)

The biggest real downside as far as I can see is that shifting the dev output to focus more on TF/SFs may mean that peopl ewho never get chance to play TF/SFs wget th eshort end of the stick... But the rest of the playerbase should get real gems that were worth the development time & effort - rather than a new coat of devpaint over the same old arc format.

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Well first thing I heard Posi say when I logged into test was:

04-28-2009 17:38:37 [Local] Positron: We'll be dealing with the farmers, harshly.

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Hmm, interesting. How do they intend to do that then? has the EULA changed since I started playing? I don't remember it mentioning farming...

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From the I14 patch notes:
[*]NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or “authors” that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

Now without a formal definition of the terms involved (e.g. 'exploit' or 'unintended statistical advantages') it could be the case that creating farms where many mobs can be harvested at low risk for the rewards on offer is seen as an exploit providing statistical advantages unintended by the devs.

It most certainly seems that being able to go 1-50 in a matter of hours is an unintended advantageous rate of xp gain.

Also note that in the anniversary pocket D appearance, Positron said (with regards to MA farms):
04-28-2009 17:57:54 [Local] Positron: Yes, if you lodge Complaints against the farms, they can be taken care of

Which I guess means that the official position is that we should report farms.

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Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?


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To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.

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(bravo, or perhaps creedo)

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When I thought of basing some of the bigbads around that that comic story I wondered why I'd never really thought about it before... Especially since I've been dipping into the trade paperbacks since Christmas.

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Did we ever team in '05?


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I only started in early '06.. so probably not!

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'A love of combat on the high seas'?? A pirate game?

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Or just the third part of the City Of... series. Based on the Waterworld film, City Of Costner should launch early 2010.

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Or at Atlantis (ancient and modern?) - like the ITF mobs mention.

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Only downside is I was linked to this and was told it parodied a few people. The references were a little vague, I didn't find anything or anyone in their I recognised.

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Glad that you enjoyed it.

The references are intentionally vague, with one exception.

I don't intend to offend any individuals - so the character references aren't really based on individuals as much as forum-archetypes... And keeping them slightly vague not only avoids accidentally offending someone with specifics that match them, but increases the likelihood that players see them as resembling someone they know...

There's only 2 of these shown as negative in the first mission, but the arc is only about 65% iirc so I could have made a couple more, but:

* this would take more time to pick defined forum-archetypes (and I considered a quick turnaround essential if it's to poke fun at the events around the anniversary);

* the more forum-ATs the more chance that someone thinks it is based purely on them, and takes offence!

* it's just overegging the cake and making the first mission unnecessarily long!

TBH I did consider throwing in "The PvPer"... but messing with PvPers in CoX is a bit like messing with certain religions in RL. No matter how you do it some extremist wil get all fired up about it...

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True enough, but Posi has used exactly the same words to describe OTHER questions regarding incoming nerfs, so it's fairly safe to say it's a general rule. If you think something needs nerfing, and other people think the same, there's a good chance the devs ALSO think the same thing.


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All very true - I was clarifying as without knowing the context of the Pocket D quote some forumites may have believed that Posi gave this answer in direct response to a question about MA farming. After all FFM said so and he was there (I know you didn't - but that's how some may have read it, much as devs get taken out of context for 75%+ of their alleged 'promises').

He didn't - so I cleared that up.

But it'd be odd if, after the devnuke approach to MA nerfs that we seen so far, the devs decide to address the machanisms that allow farming with a nerf-scalpel.

The latter always seems to win when the devs consider keyhole nerfery vs drastic nerfputation.

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For example - I teamed with some 50s on Wednesday and was surprised that the tank wasn't charging into mobs taunting and drawing aggro as most of the team were trollers and blasties. So I politely said "why aren't you taunting them?", his reply was......what’s taunting?


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"What's taunting?"!!!

Laugh or cry? Laugh or cry? Laugh or Cry?

/em cointoss

Damn - it came down on it's edge...

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I really hope they don't do their usual approach and nerf it into oblivion......

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As Posi said in Pocket D the other day...

"If you feel a nerf is coming, one probably is"

Nerfing into oblivion is pretty much the only way the devs know how to deal with things. They ignore the careful approach and just go in with a chainsaw.

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My main problems with the devs recently have only been how they released too early (ignoring known and reported bugs) an dthen use the dev-nuke to nerf/attack exploits causing collateral damage and undermining what I believe is the intended use of MA - to tell interesting arcs and create extreme challenges for those who thought CoX had become too easy.

So I half-expect an overzealous nerf.

But...

When Posi said the quoted sentence, I believe it was in this exchange (from my prettified chatlogs):

04-28-2009 18:34:00 [Local] Fulcrum: lol, I have to ask - is DM/Regen getting nerfed again anytime soon?
04-28-2009 18:34:16 [Local] Positron: If you feel a nerf is coming... it probably is.

So the quote appeared to be in direct relation to DM/Regen. It may well have been a general throwaway comment - replying generally rather than addressing the specifics of DM/Regen - but it may be seen as a tad unfair to just use the reply without giving the context it was said in.

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I'll have a pop at it this weekend but bare in mind I have given a best mate 0 stars this week cos there is pretty much no punches pulled between me treating them like I would anyone else.

I think I can see where the Devs are heading which I guess is perhaps contrary to the few people going. The only thing that's hurting is limited time.

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Now I guess that I could point out that, intentionally or not, that sounds to me as if you've almost made your mind up that I fall into the 'not being able to see where the devs are heading' camp and that the arc will be some sort of vitriol-inspired cack that will rate somewhat less than one...

Of course, if part of you has already prejudged the arc, then feel free not to play it - I won't be upset.

But if you do play it, try and play it for what it is and mark accordingly - don't lavish stars of false praise nor withold them for whatever petty reason. Just be honest and fair and mark 'em as you see 'em and you can't go far wrong.

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Damn, Mr "Ignore me" isn't actually meant to been seen. He was a device to make the lvl scale 25-54, and he's meant to spawn at the entrance after you've already completed the mission (he actually apears in the first mission for the same reason) the fact you found him anoys me no end, I'll have to fix that.

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It may not be worth rushing to fix it - I15 is meant to allow arcs to be fixed by level, as I undertsand it, to avoid the need for level lockdown mobs. SO if that does get a shift on you may be able to get rid of Mr "Ignore me" in a couple of weeks time... so maybe not worth stressing about too much at the moment.

Well the initial reviews are in and they look good... albeit drawn in crayon just like my notes usually are...

If you're after an antidote I'd grab a look at "City of Norms" pretty quickly just in case someone doesn't like it and it get's pulled...

Heck - for all I know NC might not like you helping out the completely-ficticious-and-not-based-on-anything-in-RL software house, Playergone Studios...

But then, I know the importance of being able to laugh at yourself... Though in my case that includes pointing at myself and is mainly as it stops me being in the minority. I do think that shouting 'You sad weirdo' at myself in the streets may be going too far though.

Great thread that one

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Yay a new JD mission

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Thank you, Mereman!

BTW As another antidote:
I'm currently teamed on Union with a full team, most of who'm are brand new are with us because of STEAM offering the game... New blood is always good.

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First game I install and update: this one.

I'll be here a fair while yet.

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Surely it won't take that long to update...

Sick of the anniversary/leaving threads with their doom & gloom posts, and their counter-doom and gloom posts, and their anti-counter-doom and gloom posts, and their contra-anti-counter-doom and gloom posts?

Well Doctor JD* has a curative arc scientifically proven to dismiss the anniversary/leaving thread blues!

arc name: City Of Norms
arc id: 132944
morality: Neutral
4 missions, lvl 33 to 54 (though 2 are 40-54)
A video game company desperately needs your help. Someone has stolen their source code and tampered with their PR. Now some players are dissatisfied and leaving... Can you save Playergone Studios before it is too late??? WARNING: JD's sense of tongue-firmly-in-cheek humour pervades this arc.

Do you wonder why the devs may not be delivering exactly what you want? Or what you think they promised? Do you wonder how the EU boards came to the state that they are in?

Well maybe the devs have been sabotaged by outside forces... Maybe I investigated this... And maybe I placed my findings into a MA arc so I could claim it's all just a work of fiction...

Maybe.


Notes:

- This should be soloable having only Bosses and mainly being standard mobs.

- All names have been changed to mock the innocent, any similarity to persons or organisations past, present, future, living, dead or undead is purely a side-effect of your diseased imagination and may not have been the intention of the arc author.

* 'Doctor JD' is not qualified in any medical capacity and arcs administered by Doctor JD have not actual been subjected to any scientific testing. Playing Doctor JD arcs can lead to blood pressure going up as well as down. Past performance of arcs from the House of Mohawk is no indicator of future arc performance.

All the best Alex, wherever life takes you.

I'd be grateful if the good (or should that be mad/bad/evil?) Doctor would consider the following. My apologies that it does see you acting as a freelancer, and not quite your own boss, but hopefully it is suitably evil for you.

arc name: Marketing Opportunity
arc id: 83747
morality: villainous
4 missions, lvl 30 to 40
Discrete freelancer required to market Crey services to parallel dimension. Applicants with dynamic, go-getting moral framework preferred.

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you guys w2anted to make your own missions an now you can

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nope, no i can't.
i can't create my maps, i can't create my boundary's in the mission and i can't make the mission spawn and run the enemy's i want them.
this is not a mission creator, it's a mission generator, nothing more.

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Of course it's a mission generator and nothing more.

Writing a story and limiting yourself to the 10,000 most common words in English would be impossible wouldn't it. The 10,000 word vocabulary would make your story writing process a mere story generator rather than a creative process wouldn't it.

Hopefully sarcasm is in the 10,000 most common words...

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Same go's for CoP it was broke in a stupidly major way that makes peoples worries about new players going from 1 to 50 in 8 hours look like a paper cut they had to pull it

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I read that the same can be achieved now with MA farming teams, so they will close MA too?

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I think if you reread it he is referring to the MA.

He's saying "CoP was broken far worse than the MA allowing 1-50 in 8 hrs".

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I get the impression that some are that jaded by what they perceives as wrongs that they wouldn't have liked anything that posi said.

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Possibly, but regardless ... what was there in what Positron did say that's worth liking? He didn't exactly go overboard on the talking, good or bad.

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The thing is i cant blame him recent events show just what happens when the Devs talk about somthing and it either fails to appear (the vault) or dose apear but needs reworking (CoP trial)

these things are then cast up as broken promises at pretty much every opertunity so why would Posi make anything other than vage refrence to things


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But in that case why say anything? Why turn up? Why announce that there'd be an ingame announcement?

As it happens I think that Posi did Ok in the pocket D - many people seem upset that he didn't answer their question.. but hell he probably answered or referred to about a third of the questions asked at most. If he sees the chat in any way like we see it then I'm amazed he did that well - following 20 or 30 people all talking/questioning at once isn't easy, especially when answering one question.

I also consider that he did address PvP as much as would be expected and as much as he could without making it a nothing-but-PvP session.

I15 is a small issue, but I think that's mainly because of wanting it out around the CoH anniversary and I14 taking longer than planned (I14 releasing early was partly for Easter and partly to try getting I15 out around the anniversary IMO).

The biggest mistakes of yesterday were:
* Publishing the I15 web page before the announcement;
* Mentioning the 'fun' birthday address as if it was something worth taking notice of.

The address was laughable. It should really have just been done as a surprise without publicising it beforehand. Wouldn't it have been a little bit cooler to have a message from Positron popup unexpected? Wouldn't that have avoided anyone getting unrealistic expectations as no-one expected anything?

The address was made more laughable by the I15 content page being up all day yesterday - it was as if Paragon Studios was intentionally trying to steal Posi's thunder...

Sad to see yet another going. Take care.

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Plus, with only 3 publishing slotts, 2 of which are done already, there's not much else I can do with it once that last slot is done. Given that the only way atm to get more slots is to get Dev's Choice or HOF and there's so few of them in the literally thousands of missions out there that it's pointles trying for it, I'm not likely to get more space on it any time soon.


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One of the anniversary interviews (can't recall where, but it wasn't the tentonhammer one) I was reading last night whilst waiting for the announcement-that-was-worth-announcing seemed to say that they were looking at providing extra MA slots for microtransactions much like character slots.

The interviewee pointed out that they needed to make them purchasable as tieing them to Vets' rewards would be no use to new players brought in by MA...

Though, hopefully, if they do this they'll do it just like character slots and throw one in every year or so as a vet bonus anyway...

EDIT: Found it - it was with Matt Miller at Massively
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Will you be adding in a way for players to increase the number of Architect arcs (space) they can have at one time? Perhaps through Veteran Rewards or as a purchasable option?

We are considering this as a purchasable option initially. Tying it to Vet Rewards defeats the purpose of bringing in new players with this feature. If a new player loves it, they'd have to wait months or years in order to get more slots. If we make them a micro-transaction like we did with character slots, then they can have immediate access to more slots at a reasonable price.



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Have fun, Standoff