Johnnykat
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Me, Shaper, VexXxa and FD, from my quick first glance over the event. I just wanted to clarify for sake of drama and the seemingly harsh hit I took for my opinion and not the others. Thanks again Wassy for sticking through this as far you could and good luck again on your new opportunity!Originally Posted by Wassy
Nope, I actually got zero PMs about the nipular issue. I said people as in you and I thought I saw it mentioned by one other poster. So by one person, I had to use "people" instead of "you". -
Quote:1) Actually, repeatedly telling someone they are wrong using repeated efforts of unrelated examples like spelling someone's name incorrectly is so baseless I do find it to be mudslinging. And YES, this is my opinion - and NO, I shouldn't have to preface every comment I make with "in my opinion" because (drum roll please) nearly 100% of what anyone says here is an opinion and it is redundant to preface that every time. Yeesh.Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
@Johnnykat: Telling someone they are making numerous errors ≠ (does not equal) mudslinging.
Also I'm not avoiding the question at all I just realize I am in no position to to make an official ruling on it.
Neither are you. Neither is a mod.
Asking for a mod's perspective is just a diversion as he/she could only give their opinion the same as you could... and it would be equally useless in deciding this contest.
It is for the FArt admin alone to decide.
You seem not to understand this though as you don't say "you think" Shia should win or present what you think you see to Wassy and leave it at that, instead you declare that Shia should indeed have already won. By the time you get around to saying "in my opinion", in parenthesis... at the end, you are already speaking in past tense and congratulating him on his victory like it's a forgone conclusion... that somehow because you declare it's over, it must be over. Your flawed opinion has no bearing here.
So I say again you are wrong and it is not your decision to make.
2) As for avoiding the question. Yes, I still think you did - sorry. There was a significant number of people questioning this - not just me. Wassy, mentioned a number of people pointing this out. To me that meant she was also getting PMs about it. AT THE TIME (because it doesn't really matter anyways) I was under the impression Wassy was still mulling it over. Hence, why I suggested a Mod review it. To say the Mod would have no bearing on this is incorrect based on the user agreement of the board (so yes, here is an example of a comment not being an opinion). A Mod's decision over-rules any player event's hosting decision since all events have to fit within the rules of the boards - it is that simple. Obviously, I didn't bother asking a Mod - I merely suggested it if Wassy was having hesitations. Clearly though, she didn't feel the need to and just let this contest ride out without recommenting on it until the contest vote timer expired - cool, no biggie. It was just a question - one that I was not alone in wondering.
3) In regards to seemingly being upset about my original commentary on Shia winning this month. Funny how things worked out and I happened to be right - shocking! (yes, sarcasm). But all kidding aside, you slammed me for stating this, yet it seemed you've been pretty cool continually trying to accept the over-all title of FArt 2010 winner since Pyro first conceded (a considerable amount of time before I ever commented). So why is it cool for you to do this, but if someone else gets cheered on that is grounds for attacking them?
@DonatoJames: I agree, a lot of drama to deal with especially this month. I appreciate seeing the support you have for an artist you like here. I wanted to congratulate you on your dedicated support of this event (especially in those hot and heavy last few minutes of voting).
Looking forward to seeing Shia and CR go one more month. Are we in agreement that this month doesn't have immunity? I can hold that $50 dollar prize purse in escrow for ya Bayani.
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Awesome opportunity Wassy!
Good luck on all your future artistic ventures!
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So basically, the short point of that tldr rebuttal to the simple inquiry of whether or not the image in question is inappropriate is:
"You're wrong Johnnykat.
A lot.
What qualifies and what doesn't qualify for this contest is not your decision to make.
Who should win the contest is not your decision to make."
OK, fair enough. But, that's not really answering the question - that's just more-or-less mudslinging to avoid the question. Even the written disclaimer (or whatever you want to call it) while informative, doesn't seem to "cover" the "exposure" that is happening in the image.
Ultimately, there is a really easy way to solve this instead of all this going back and forth. Just ask a Mod. If the Mod feels this is kosher to post here, then the situation is diffused and that's that - so what is the problem again? -
No artwork to show at the moment, but I had some thoughts I wanted to share in light of events over the last few months...
*TLDR ADVISORY*
There seems to be a one-way trend happening as of late in terms of giving artistic criticism, but not wanting to receive it or not liking when others here or on dA challenge the criticism to be given. It's an unfortunate turn of events when we have so many artists and appreciators of the arts who all share a mutual interest in CoH to be butting heads as much as we seem to do. Sure, some might enjoy butting heads, but it seems to be leading to some pretty negative results.
A little backstory...
I'm not one to be passive-aggressive about situations, so I do find myself being direct and blunt at times in hopes of finding a resolution quickly. With that said, speaking for myself there was a lot of positive energy when a core group of players attempted to start an all art-forum inclusive sg/vg group on Virtue. For the most part, it still has its active evenings and active players use the 606 channel nightly which is pretty cool! What started to concern me though is that some players began to express frustration about how other players played their toons. That's understandable and normal I guess - heck, I even joked along with it, but ultimately I have always stayed the path of any of the art-forum peeps that want to play should have an equal chance to play when events like "in the mood" or anything other art-forum sg/vg player wants to run a group event. Of course, ideally, if there is an established weekly event and another player wanted to run one too, then hopefully they tried to not pick conflicting nights or (inadvertently or not) stole the thunder/control from an existing event - made sense at the time (since the idea is all about inclusion for all).
Now fast forward ...
Situations developed where lines got marked in the sand. If some of us didn't exclude others to play, then this other player/group chose to leave. Hey, that's a perfectly cool choice, if a player/group is not happy with another player/group then just backing out makes sense. However, I for one took some blame as if it was my fault because I chose to keep it all inclusive and not turn it into an exclusive/invite only kind of thing. That isn't really fair, but I have to accept it obviously. This is where it seemed to start to really affect some game play and now has flowed over into the art boards. This is really unfortunate.
Ultimately, this is where I personally feel some negative reactions originated. It had very little to do with an image I created, but the image was imo a good excuse to use to fully severe connections. What I still just don't get is the eagerness to want to start a group, then want to exclude others, then blame or accuse me (or anyone else) of not wanting to play with ALL of the art people. I would of really appreciated the opportunity to reply directly to comments made directly to me, but unfortunately I've been personally blocked via global and apparently the frustration is so high I've been blocked via dA boards too! Again, blows my mind - specifically that I would be blocked from artist commentary! LOL Especially since I am nearly 100% sure I have never made one negative original comment on people's submitted artwork - by the artist or collector. I may have defended my comments that had negative undertones, but my original comments were always positive (that is my point).
A part of me feels like a person/group out there is expecting an apology from me and I have been told to look in the mirror about being a hypocrite, etc. Really?!? Hey, that's fine and I accept responsibility for whatever actions I took that may have led to hurt feelings. But an apology - NO WAY! LMAO I support all the gamers here that enjoy the game, enjoy the art boards and enjoy getting feedback here and on dA. I support having a fun-lighthearted SG/VG art group that is for EVERYONE to be included as was the original intent.
So with that all said, if a person/group still has issues and wants to have an exclusive thing going - hey, that's cool! But, going at lengths to severe all connections without friendly dialogue, block all communication, or one-way commentary/criticism without accepting replies/comments back does suck and it seems to have negatively affected others not even involved.
I am hoping this generates some reflection and possible consideration of future interactions in-game, on the boards and dA. Reflections that lead to more positive, constructive interaction and who knows possible reconsiderations of old misunderstandings for the opportunity of a more enjoyable shared experience.
On a side note though, if you happened to ban me from artistic commentary on dA, especially when we all happen to be a part of the City of Heroes group, I went ahead and blocked you back (just an FYI). Obviously, since original rounds of blocking was on your end, I will be more then happy to open my doors back up too. I am reachable by all here on the boards and in game, so it won't be impossible to start up some dialogue.
Anyways, like I said...this was a very tldr post but it was written with a clear message (I hope) and I do hope some of the hate that has been spreading around here can fade. Also, this post is a reflection piece - please feel free to comment, but I don't think there is no need to dissect it point-by-point. If you really feel the need take this and take parts out of context, it may just be better to PM me about - thanks!
Have a great holiday weekend all you crazy art people! -
Quote:...Yes!, this ^^ is all I was getting at and it is my opinion too and how I see it and FD worded this perfectly.Originally Posted by FrozenDeath
It looks like the areola of her right breast is poking out. That's what I see. The reason is that the disputed dark line is in exactly the right place and it has exactly the right curvature to be that. It doesn't look like some border on the strap, and the area on the other strap you mention just looks like a variation on the line weight. It doesn't bother me, I don't give a crap whether it's edgy or anything. But I'm seeing exactly what they are seeing and it's not the result of some faulty logic or me wanting really bad to see more of her boob. It's simply because that's what the lines you put down on the paper look like, regardless of what you intended.
And Draggynn, I like your thoughts on future art events. It's definitely a nice attempt at community inclusion! -
Quote:Just WAY too much to quote. Just wow...Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
I stated my intentions for this piece very clearly from the beginning. Quoting myself from the August 2010 Fan Art Battle thread at the beginning of the month:
Everyone who read that knew my intent... it has not changed.
....
I dare say Caemgen knows me better currently than you ever will.
First off, I didn't bring up the Bayani boots BS again, it was brought up by a homage submission piece here. I figured I better comment and try to diffuse it now because last time I let your "first" comment slide about this piece. You are right, I did create that piece...it wasn't complete and that section was blackened out, I have stated that more then once and the end result had nothing to do about Bayani (yeesh). For the record and by that I mean the "facts" (and you know this) no one commented on that until after you pointed it out on the boards here and on dA even though your actual comment said you weren't commenting. lol Contradiction - yes.
So to add credit to your argument, you are going to try and AGAIN discredit me with "fluff" unrelated arguments about how I misspelled an abbreviation of Tartar's name? I am sorry Tartyr. LMAO. I guess if I was really worried or loosing sleep about this I could always comeback minutes or hours later to "edit" my posts - sound familiar? Is it really necessary to try and throw everything and the kitchen sink at me every time I defend a position or ask a question?
Now, back to topic. That's really great man that you have done free arts for peeps (and I mean that sincerely) - heck, you even did one for me. I've never dissected or attempted to inflame a discussion on your art posts - have I ever once? I will admit to defending myself when I feel I am being egg'd on (like now). ALSO, my comment is about this piece...no way is it pointing out or attempting to point out anything else or stir a quarrel between you and some of your global friends in the game like the boot piece comment yours did to me.
So, let's try and take this down a notch OK. I don't care about your past, you could of been a priest for all I care. I am just saying you picked one heck of a visually edgy/racy picture (regardless of your verbal intent) to post to the boards here without a one-click rule and/or riskier then a PG-13 rating. There are so many bikini combos out there, to pick one pushing the envelope so far simply caused me to pause and ask if this is really appropriate? And it is a fair question - I pay my subscription fees and participated in this since the beginning as an artist and now simply as a voter.
Now, speaking of a $3 latte...man, I am so jonesing for my caffeine fix atm, so before I really do go into a "tirade" I need to go get me some coffee.
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Quote:LMAO!...well, that's cool if you haven't experienced the racy side of CR.Originally Posted by Caemgen
As far as Nipplegate goes, I must say I don't see it.
Yeah, I can see how one can imagine that heavy line to be the very edge of it but only because in my demented youth I also watched scrambled HBO on the off chance I may catch sight of some nipplage... Anyway, in my experience, size and shape varies and I don't think there's any way to definitively say her nipple scientifically and mathmatically must have been showing to some extent...
I also doubt CR intended such. He's not known for being racy or edgy in his arts and I certainly don't see why he would start now.
*shrug*
All I am saying is, why put out such a potentially misread inappropriate piece when you have a free pass for the month? -
Quote:LOL...classic, yes dismiss my points under the disclaimer of "tirade."Originally Posted by Wassy
I haven't commented on it, because I don't SEE it. What (I think) people are saying is part of a nipple looked to me like it was just a line weight choice. That side of the bikini was shadowed, so it was a heavier line at the bend. If CR INTENDED for it to be otherwise, than it is disqualifying.
As far as the flaming boots fiasco, all *I* said was how it came out to me at first blush. It looked to me like it was clearly a poke for not being able to include Bayani. If I'm not supposed to call them like I see them, then the whole thing doesn't have to have a judge anyway and it can be a free-for-all.
Also, get your facts straight. Tartyr WAS NEVER DISQUALIFIED. He was voted off in April. Go back and check. In the children's theme, I asked him what material he used when it didn't look like crayon. When he said it was, all was good.
Before you go off on tirades about what I have and haven't done, make sure you have some accuracy first.
Fair enough, in regards to Tartar...yes voted off, but alot of dialogue about the qualifying nature of his piece (that is the point here). Bayani boots, again...you commented on that right after it was brought up. You're all about the bewbs, yet didn't comment on that here on this one right away...hmmm. Yes, you do call them like you see them, until coincidentally it's an inconvenience?...conflicts with a friend? Yes, please do judge and call them like you see them. You've taken anatomy and lighting classes by now I am sure, CR has made it clear he sees mistakes in other peoples work but not his own. That said, adding "line weight" right were the "Areola" is where an extreme light spot is also appearing. There is no way a shadow or line weight could be there under those lighting conditions unless it is literally referencing/exposing part of the nipple. Now I know you like the bewbage and you will probably let this fly, but here is a blatant example of indecent content and you are dismissing this as a "tirade."
PS - I would go so far as to even enlarge it to point out my argument in an illustration, but it's just not an appropriate thing for me to do here and it would be hypocritical of me to do so. -
Quote:Since the kid gloves seem off...Originally Posted by Wassy
Yeah, definitely didn't turn out how I wanted, but at least I can say I gave it the ol' college try. I'm actually not overly fuming about the end, though. If CR and Shia want a good theme to go out on and just skip over this vote, I've got no problem with that. But I knew if I didn't mention the immunity issue, it would be brought up anyway and I'd be accused of not taking the rules into consideration on THAT count =P I was just shocked at how Pyro chose to exit when I never said there wouldn't be an elimination.
Caemgen continually spouting off that I called him a liar when I in fact said he was rude is far more irritating.I
That's understandable to be irritated Wassy - I find it even more irritating when someone instigates the situation and then retaliates and complains about it even though they originally instigated it. And you know who you are. In this case, you guys bashed on Caemgen's aesthetics in his art collections and decisions for quite awhile (not just this thread now), and then when he finally starts to defend himself or point out the hypocracy...you call him "rude" or a liar or whatever. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Instead of apologizing and moving on, you seem to continue to stir the pot. I suggest if you do something like hosting an event in the future Wassy, maybe...just maybe try to be a little more unbiased and not instantly lend your opinion to someone elses attempts at harassment like you did to me a few months back in the "flamey boots" BS. I appreciate Pyro's attempt to poke fun at that situation again because it really did get blown out of proportion and I didn't appreciate how you handled that for sure. I know trying to be neutral is tough, but considering how this has become the debacle it has become it could at least be a good learning experience.
And one more thing, I do still feel bad about Tartar getting booted over an image that didn't quite look like a crayon drawing. That's why when I see comments from Shaper (flaming as he might be) did raise a good point about the PG-13 rule/one-click rule and you haven't commented on that yet here Wassy and I wonder why? How is exposing part of Battlemaiden's nipple not crossing the line? And yeah CR, we do have some major differences in opinion too EXCEPT I don't like calling people out publicly on rules or whatever, but since you have done it to me on more then one occasion...seriously, why ride the line on breaking the rules so close on this month when you had immunity? I just don't see how another month could even happen now.
Sadly, I really thought this contest was about the art community. But it seems to be more like a medium showcasing the host and the clique-opinion of her closest friends or work-related associates. And you all wonder why some of the artist here decided to leave and work on more positive and fulfilling ventures.
Shia through attrition and adherence to the rules should just have this FArt title now. Amazing considering your rocky start and, oh yeah, you getting hit with the rule stick right off the bat, came through on top (in my opinion) in the end. Way to go Shia!
Sorry Pyro, I did like your piece too (it still gets my 1st place vote) and you had a great chance for going all the way, but your taboo selection will guarantee you are out this month. lol -
NOOOOO Pyro!
Does this mean the fire sale is over and no more flamey stoof for sale? I'm sure this will make these items supa rare now and unique and some day only like one flamey person will be able to claim these as their costume and no else will be allowed to wear them.
So to avoid any future heart "burn" I declare Fireballer as the final approved flamey costume wearing toon! Flamey stoof be mine! All you other flamey stoof wearers better stop wearing yours now 'cuz you be copyrightin on my mojo...kthxbai!
All kidding aside, yes it is a bummer to see you have to drop Pyro. Ironic your burned-out theme sort of summarizes how this year's FArt burned out.
And Wassy, considering previous months you made the call to keep the elimination or not...your reaction seems, um, contradictory to me on this month. Why not alter the rules again and just say no immunity this month since we are down to less then three? If Pyro really wants out and you want this to be the last month, then why not wave your FArt-wand again while there is still most of the week left and just make this month the no-hold-barred "two men enter, one man leaves" kind of thing now? Especially since the interest has waned so much by the contestants and now apparently you seem pretty frustrated too, seems like this month is just as good as any to call it the last no immunity winner takes all kind of thing in my opinion.
Anyways, regardless of final decision - gl to the last contestants. Was fun while it lasted.
1) Pyro
2) Shia
3) CR -
I should be there! See ya all later.
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Quote:I empathize with ya Juggy. Good luck on all the stuff you got going on!Originally Posted by Juggertha
Sorry all, but I am out. I'm usually done by now, but I haven't even started. I'm just swamped with so many projects, work, and an upcoming move.
Good luck to all that are still in the mix, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you bring. And a special thanks to Wassy for continuing to put this on. It's not an easy job, so thanks for putting in the effort for us (and this goes for Frost's cool spreadsheets as well).
-Juggy -
Ouija boards scare me
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Thanks Powerstream, Vex, CR, DD and U-Naught! I'll be around, but yeah...good luck to the final 5!
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Quote:Hmmm. I acknowledged I misread it. I acknowledged why I misread it. I suggested ways to correct a possible misread by not shoving multiple thoughts into one sentence with a long fragment inside parenthesizes.Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Johnnykat, you've been told several times now by several different people in several different ways.
It's demonstrably evident and you are not fooling anyone.
You know it, I know it and it's painfully obvious to everyone who's
bothered to read this far. Yet you still cannot say it.
You sir, have a problem.
Oh well, we tried. *shrug* I'm not going to be losing
any sleep over it and there are better uses for my time.
What am I not saying?
What are you not understanding from my response?
Stating I "have a problem" is pretty inflammatory - is that the type of commentary it will come down to for future critiques or commentary when someone challenges/defends their points from your first volley of criticism?
You are focusing so hard on my misunderstanding of one of your comments. Is this your way of covering the fact that you can't debate the issue of educated criticism vs a hobby/weekend-warrior/average-joe criticism? See what I did here? You didn't like "average-joe" critic terminology, so I gave you "weekend-warrior" critic previously. And now I gave you "hobby critic". Either way, each one was a constructive way to describe the typical critique one may find here. It was not just going below the belt and stating "you got a problem."
Yet, you cover up my original argument about educated vs hobby (or pick a new term that you are comfortable with and I will use) with focusing on my misinterpretation of "one" of your comments in "one" of your posts.
I have NO problem discussing the merits of education and their importance in providing a strong foundation for advancing all aspects of one's artistic skills or any skill for that matter. And I have NO problem admitting I may have misread something - it does happens (obviously). I do and will defend myself when I feel someone takes that mistake and tries to champion it as a way to discredit me. Life is full of mistakes and they are usually the best ways to learn and move on - can you really move on from hyper-focusing on this issue?
I know I am moving on, I would rather critique work then discuss over and over again one misunderstood comment. -
Here's my spandex version. Well I think I do like red better then orange, but I can see it argued that this may be too close to your current one...
The only difference between the two are the gloves. I could see Judgement using bare hands because she-hulk amazons don't worry about breaking nails right? lol However, a little armor references her warrior side too.
The scales just seem to make sense obviously with a lot of us trying them out. I kept messing with the fist (outlined one) or the lit torch, but kept coming back to the scales too.
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Quote:LOLOriginally Posted by PowerStream
Thanks JK! Yeah I saw your post when I came on to add mine and thought, "Doggonit! I look like I'm copying!" lol Oh well, great minds think alike!
Ya, I think after awhile it will be hard to not have some overlap of certain costume pieces. I have one from the beta pieces I want to submit, but obviously can't yet. -
Thanks Jophiel!
Nice costumes Powerstream - I had one coming close to your second one lol. -
Quote:I'll just say, I understand what you are saying Caemgen.Originally Posted by Caemgen
I added the "believe" to my explanation of what CR said because I think it arrogant to state that I know what is going on in someone elses head is all... I think his words were quite clear.
I would comment on his use of parenthesis and whether it was a run on sentence of not but since I have no advanced degree in English I am not qualified to do so...
(yeah, I know that's snarky but I mean it at least 90% humorously...)
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D'oh!...I just read the allowing spandex thing AFTER I did these. Oh well, I still feel these are worth posting.
I was partial to black and I still wanted to use yellow, orange, or red. I settled on black with orange (since you seemed pretty adamant about not yellow or red together), but I personally think red may still be best with black. There are a lot of spikes and chains - my take on grittier, but may come off not classy enough for ya LJ. The chains, straps, and the armored bits were also an attempt to bring that amazon warrior aspect across. The flame patterns for obvious reasons of tying her elemental use of fire into the design.
I think I will go work up a latex one soon too.
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Happy B-Day Attache!
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Quote:Once I removed the long run-on inside your parenthesis which read to me as some fragmented thought about BW's avatar BEFORE addressing me, I do now understand more clearly what you were trying to say. Maybe finish one thought before trying to shove it all into one comment/sentence would be my suggestion.Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Thanks for trying to clarify if for him VexXxa (you are the 4th person to make the effort).
I appreciate what you're saying but no that word should not be added at all.
Using "with" twice is literally redundant. Think about if you were
agreeing with 10 people... would you say the word "with" 10x? ...
Yes, 4 other people offered what your "intention" might be or what they "think" you meant, but no one said definitely "this is what CR meant". I'll rack it up to being late and I was tired in trying to decipher what you intended. I'll definitely try to watch more closely what you are writing as your zeal for commenting on every single aspect of something someone (especially myself) says seems to cause you to say too much at once in one single sentence/thought.
In regards to the average-joe, weekend warrior, etc. type definition. It's just that, someone with some average/base knowledge. Sometimes enough to know the essentials/fundamentals which is great, but other times enough to make that person dangerous in regards to sounding convincing but ultimately misleading (or worse insulting). Sure art is a visual thing and I have learned it is pretty subjective, so it can be a real challenge to convince the average person the merits of a critique by someone who actually has some level of training.
For example, can I change the oil in my car or offer some simple advice on how to jump start a dead battery? - sure I can. Could I talk at length about diagnosing a problem with a car engine based on sound alone - yes, I "could" because I am familiar with a few sounds that I know its direct correlation to a mechanical problem. However, I will be the first to admit me diagnosing someone elses problems because I may have had a similar one doesn't come anywhere close to an actual trained/educated auto mechanic. So with that said, should an art critique be automatically considered superlative from an art major over the average-joe that may have some experience - my answer is yes. Can that trained person be wrong - totally, but the chances are less likely than the untrained average-joe, weekend warrior type. Hence, the whole reason for higher levels of education - be it a trade school or college. I don't think you are trying to argue the idea of higher education as unnecessary, but maybe you are?
Ultimately, I would tentatively agree (which I said before) these boards probably don't require an art education for the type of critique that would suffice here. However as an art major reading through a lengthy critical commentary from someone that doesn't have any academic background in the subject, it leads me to believe that "w'oh" is this level of commentary appropriate? If you take art that seriously enough to comment that critically about other peoples work, but not enough to seek real training in it yourself, then it seems kind of hypocritical to comment that much or to comment about formal art education being unnecessary to critique here. -
Quote:You state my name and then comment - how is this misunderstood? I truncated the quote because this is my response about what you stated directed at me - hence it was superflous and tldr to add the rest. Now, if you are saying "Johnnykat, I agree with you in that Durakken's comments should be about...". But that is not how it read to me.Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
..."Johnnykat in that your comments should be about the art, imagining yourself as an editor rejecting his piece and telling him to start over or not be hired has nothing to do with constructive criticism and does not help him improve the piece at all. It's moot speculation."...
If you meant something else, my apologies. I can relate to rebufing misinformation and absurd statements - nothing in my commentary was either. To imply my argument that art education should be considered in order to help provide a proper critique as absurd...is in my opinion insulting to not just myself, but to pretty much every art major out there.