Johnny_Butane
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Posts
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What problems do you feel Tankers have?
-Tankers sacrifice too much damage for a survivability edge that doesn't come into play all that often. Brutes and Scrappers aren't exactly fragile solo, and on teams they're smothered in lots of buffs and heals.
-You choose to represent Tankers with Statesman, even now on the creation screen. They were the original (and for a long time the only blue side) AT with Super Strength and Invulnerability. It's clear what kind of image and archetypal super hero they were/are trying to evoke, but Tankers do not live up to that sort of comic character.
-Tankers do not have the same potential as Brutes. Brutes at their absolute potential (read: caps) deal much more damage than Tankers, but only have 10% less HP. As an anecdote, my Inv/SS Tanker, that I didn't actively build for damage, hits his damage cap and presently has little to no more room to grow offensively through straightforward means.
-The main advantage of Tankers that they trade damage for, survivability, is all too often trivialized in newer content by 'cheating' mechanics. Situations are created that are lethal to all ATs, even Tankers, yet Tankers continue to deal less damage even when they're in just as much danger. I refer to unresisted damage, attacks and hazards that deal a HP percentage and the like. A Tanker can no more shrug off a Battle Maiden Sword Bomb than a Scrapper can, but the Scrapper will be outputting more damage regardless.
Why do you feel this is a problem?
I feel these issues are a problem because a stigma persists around that Tankers are slow and weak, perhaps more so than they really are. Brutes and Scrappers are wildly more popular and they feel more...'competitive' as ATs. Tankers don't reflect the kind of characters I see with similar powers in comics and they have always felt like they fell so far from what they were intended to be. Those are subjective issues, but I was asked about how I feel.
What would you do to Tankers to improve them?
-Increase Tanker damage caps.
-Add more options and tools for Tankers to improve their offense. That includes ATOs and additions to the Tanker Ancillary/Epic pools (or a new pool itself).
-I'd look into a power/mechanic that allowed Tankers to temporarily trade off survivability for damage. Think the original idea behind Energy Transfer, but trading HP for a damage buff/bonus damage instead, perhaps as a toggle.
And what quantifiable data would you use to justify such a change?
-Look at Brute Resistance and HP caps in regards to how much damage they can output at their damage cap and how that compares to their 'cousin' the Tanker. Those may seem like far off, completely theoretical points that neither AT can't get close to easily. But logically, the further we go with the Incarnate system, the more temp powers, buffs and IOs that are added to the game, the closer those points get. At present, it doesn't take much for my Tanker to hit his Resistance and damage caps; just one or two Kins and a click of my Tier 9.
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Quote:Still no points here.Originally Posted by Siolfir
I got my token yesterday, and didn't get the points until this evening - I'm not certain exactly when, but they weren't there this afternoon when I logged on and the date shown in microtransactions when I check account info is November 25th. I'm in the eastern time zone and it's still the 24th here for another 30 mins.
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Quote:Right, but that has the unfortunate side effect of...upping the base damage of Tankers, which is not something anyone really advocates.Originally Posted by Diellan_
Funny side note, simply upping the base damage of a Tanker from 0.8 to 0.85 would increase the relative damage of a Tanker to 4.08 (0.85*4*1.2) or 70.2% of a Brute.
I just want:
-The Tanker's damage cap to reflect that, at the caps, the only real difference between a Tanker and a Brute is 10% max HP. If Brutes are allowed to have that level of potential both defensively and offensively, so should Tankers. And rather than see Brutes nerfed, I want Tanker potential improved.
-Some better tools and options for Tankers realize that potential. Either from the Incarnate system or through the ATOs/Epic/Ancillary pools (so the devs don't have to worry about other ATs getting their hands on them).
As a related aside:
[RANT
This is what incenses me the most about ATOs. Brutes get a Fury generation Bonus. Scrappers get a Critical bonus. Those are things you can't find in ANY IO set or in the Incarnate system. Tankers get a minor +Res proc. What kind of cop-out bull**** is that? You can already get more Resistance from IOs (most people ignore those bonuses in favor of Defense) from three(?) different Incarnate powers (and Barrier is likely to make more of a difference than this proc), from the power pool and from temp powers too numerous to mention.
Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers get something unique and tailor-made for them. Tankers get what feels like an afterthought, something common and generic, with the added twin insults of implying that someone with a high-end Tanker, the kind people would be going to the trouble of ATOs for, is at a loss for getting a tiny bit of resistance and that someone with a Tanker isn't concerned with offense at all.
[/RANT
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Quote:Originally Posted by Ultimus
You mean 480% or 580%? Wasn't sure if you were including base or not.
4.80 X .8 = 3.84 + (3.84 X 20) = 4.608
A Brute at damage cap is 7.75 X .75 = 5.8125
A Scrapper is 6.0 (1.2 X 5)
Considering a Brute has Tanker resist/def caps I still think that number is shy.
I'm obviously not doing the math right because I went in and mocked it up in Mids, manually dialing up the Tanker damage cap and came up with a 508% cap (it started at 400%) for Tankers to give them 30% less damage (10% for max HP, 20% for Bruising) than Brutes at cap.
That's my intent, anyways. 30% less damage than Brutes when both are capped.
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Quote:I did, and went back and fixed it.Originally Posted by Ultimus
You mean Stalkers and Tankers?
Also did you go the Summit?
No I did not go the the Pummit. Me being in the same room as the devs would be like crossing the streams bad.
Well, no, not 775%. It'd be less because of the AT mods. You have to adjust for that, then adjust for the 10% better max HP and to account for Bruising.Quote:Also I completely agree with you, IMO, Tanker damage cap should be raised to 775% like Brutes.
It could be justified that they cannot build fury, therefore, its a lot harder for them to reach that potential cap.
I think, if my math is correct, adjusting for AT mods, Bruising and the max HP difference, the Tanker damage cap should be raised from 400 to 478%.
Round up to 480% maybe?
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Quote:A Shield/SS Tanker is going to be bumping into the damage cap with stacked Rage and 5 enemies in range. Less if they're using Musculature or have a Kin on the team.Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
A Shield/SS tanker can outdamage a lot of brute combos. As can Fire/anything. There exist options for those who want Brute like damage with Tanker resilience.
That's it. Aside from bonus damage, they'll never do better. Dead end.
+Recharge you say? Increasing recharge sees sharp diminishing returns; eventually, you can't make KO Blow come back much faster so it even matters.
Meanwhile, a comparable SS/Shield Brute still has plenty of room to grow both offensively and defensively. The Brute can continue to layer on even more mitigation, not that they're fragile in the first place, and continue to have better damage. If they add more Incarnate powers that buff damage down the line, the Brute has the freedom to build in that direction too. Tanker absolute offensive potential is kneecapped while Brutes enjoy much more potential in that area and retain nearly as much maximum defensive potential.
In a real world example, on a league, that SS/Shield Brute will have so many buffs on them they're not in great fear of dieing. They'll benefit no matter if they're with a Kin, Sonic or bubbler. That Shield/SS Tanker, however, will get nothing from all the Fulcrum Shifts in the world because they hit the cap long ago.
Sheild/SS is an outlier, but not by much. My Incarnate Inv/SS hits the cap too.
Tankers are against a glass ceiling in a way the other melee ATs aren't and it's going to become more evident the deeper we get into the Incarnate system. It only gets worse the more defensive temp powers and buffs that are added to the game that Brutes and Scrappers get their hands on.
I don't think that's fair to Tankers, and in comparison its plain broken for Brutes and Scrappers. I've already had this conversation this week in the Unanswered Pummit Questions thread in regards to the current melee situation overall and how the two ATs at the extremes (Stalkers and Tankers) continue to get the short end of the stick. The devs are TRYING to come to Stalkers aid again, after 10 issues. Lets hope Tankers don't have to wait until i28.
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Got my Paragon Rewards token today, but still no points since Oct 13th.
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Quote:Regardless, at their limits they still do like 80% more damage than Tankers while having only 10% less Max HP and the same Resistance caps. That ratio shouldn't fly.Originally Posted by Ultimus
Well the cap for them went down 75 % used to be 850.
Even if we adjust for Bruising that's still 60% more ST damage and 80% more AoE. That's 50% and 70% more than they really ought to have.
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They made Fury build faster and decay more slowly. It was made slightly harder go beyond a certain point in the bar, but that damage was more than made up for in consistency and reduced time needed to build Fury.
In the end, Brutes lost no overall damage potential and had their valleys filled in.
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Quote:Two problems.Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Tanker: All Tankers to come with large inherent debuff resistances to all debufss (like, all debuffs have half effectiveness/duration). So they may not do as much damage normally, but when other ATs have been crippled by debuffs, the Tanker will have kept a much larger proportion of their effectiveness.
1. There are very few -Damage buffs in game, so for the most part, excluding -recharge debuffs, the only thing this is doing is improving survivability, which is not something Tankers are in dire need of. Bringing more personal survivability to the table doesn't make Tankers more attractive to people who would not normally not play them, it just reinforces the role they are pigeonholed into after we spent a couple pages discussing how being too specialized has hurt Scrappers and Tankers.
2. Second, Tankers draw aggro. The other ATs aren't usually going to be crippled by debuffs because the Tanker is mostly the target of those debuffs. Your suggestion doesn't allow the Tanker to remain strong when everyone else is faltering, it just lets the Tanker falter slightly less while everyone else is oblivious. If anything, if you want to improve the Tanker's lot in life in regards to being debuffed, they should have a power that dumps all aggro onto a selected friendly target and forces them to be attacked, like the Energy Blaster who keeps scattering groups.
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You forgot to mention Bruising improves Incarnate Lore pets considerably. They'll do more damage for a Tanker than a comparable Scrapper or Brute. Not to mention that they're simply easier to keep alive as a Tanker.
But the situation with the melee ATs is all messed up. Trans-faction ATs did not help things any. Right now the devs are dealing with making Stalkers competitive with Scrappers and Brutes, and this is after they already got not insignificant buffs just in i12.
As mauk2 says, Brutes are broken and the last attempt to fix them met with so much tears they ended up getting buffed instead. Scrappers too are laughing as the Incarnate system made both ATs so tough 99.99% of the game's content is trivial to them and they didn't have to give up any damage potential; they still do better damage than Incarnate Tankers even though not much is a threat to any of the three ATs anymore.
Tankers should have their max damage cap raised to be comparable to Brutes and given the options for the same chance to grow offensively as the other melee ATs get to grow defensively. That or Brutes have their Max HP/Resistance/Damage caps reduced. But I expect either of those things to happen around the 20th of Never.
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Quote:Many Tankers are already bumping their head on their damage cap. It doesn't take much. 2xRage, Assault, Musculature. You're pretty much there. On a league or team, all it takes is one or two good Kins, some misc buffs, whatever.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Then maybe we need an Incarnate Ability that supes up your damage for some time. Ofcourse the hiliarious issue is that EVERYONE could also use it.
And that'd only be for the level 47-50 game.
So a big damage buff power wouldn't do all that much.
IMO, Tankers should have their damage caps raised to be comparable to Brutes, minus 10% for the extra 10% Max HP they get over Brutes and minus 15-20% or so to compensate for Bruising. Then, add a Patron/Ancillary pool just for Tankers that has some concept neutral damage/offense improving tools in it. That way you don't have to worry about the other ATs getting them. Maybe a buff power that works like Energy Transfer was intended to, burning HP for damage?
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Quote:That situation sure sounds better when you're an AT that can more easily fill multiple roles (Brute) than when you're a closely related one trick pony that was built to fill one SPECIFIC role (Tanker).Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I have to ask, isn't this problem also one of the reasons that City of Heroes is so fun to play? That you don't need to stand around looking for that one AT that can fill that one SPECIFIC role?
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Quote:There are serious AT issues in this game that need hashing out, and the devs have been understandably reluctant to deal with it. It's just easier to ignore, let people who want to play the niche ATs do so, and maybe toss a bone when the moaning and complaints get too loud (hence the upcoming Stalker changes).Originally Posted by Dispari
This is kind of my issue with a few ATs. Defenders, Tankers, Blasters*, and Stalkers. They're designed to be one-trick ponies. The problem is, the one trick they have can be done "good enough" by other ATs.
Most well-built Brutes can tank for a team. Especially if they have some support behind them (support, mind you, that is good enough on a Corruptor, Controller, or Mastermind in most cases). Adding even more HP, RES, and DEF isn't going to make you die less than "not at all." There's a cap on survivability, where you aren't dying (which is the goal of survivability after all). Once you hit that point, adding more does nothing. Except maybe allow the support to slack off more. Although I have Brutes who can do x8 by themselves with no support (one of them +4/x8, even though I don't because it's slow).
Defenders are really good on buffs/debuffs. But really, once you get 2 or more of any support AT (including VEATs), that no longer matters. I suppose in theory you could get by on a single Defender in some situations where you might otherwise need 2 of any other support AT. But with the way buffs and debuffs stack, I don't see why you'd run an 8-man team with that ratio if you have the option not to. Personally, I like my teams to be about half support just for good measure.
Problem with Stalkers is they fill a role that nobody feels like needs to be filled. Which for the most part, with the way the game is currently designed, I agree. ST burst damage is very unnecessary. ST DPS would be useful but probably not enough that people seek it out unless it was really something special.
And problem with Blasters is they sacrifice everything to just do damage. Which really, every AT already does just fine. Some of them dangerously well (Shield Scrappers, SS Brutes, Fire/Kins, and so on). And all those ATs have secondary functions and much higher survivability. Blasters, like Stalkers, are supposed to excel at doing a certain type of damage. So they should be really good at it.
Personally speaking, I have nothing against any of these ATs and won't deny them from being on my team. But in a void, if I had the option, I'd never take a Defender over a Corruptor, a Tanker over a Brute (okay, maybe for STF, even though I've tanked Recluse on my Brute), or a Stalker over a Scrapper. And I'd usually rather a Dominator than a Blaster (I kind of feel like Doms are Blappers with mez anyhow; at least that's how I play mine).
* Blasters less than those others because I still enjoy playing them a lot.
Off the bat, there's too many melee ATs at this point. They step all over each other and Stalkers and Tankers get the short end from Brutes and Scrappers. Also, they seemed to logically be balanced with survivability against damage, but in practice that falls apart: Stalkers are more fragile that Scrappers, but people feel Scrappers are better at dealing damage. Brutes are tougher than Scrappers, but again many feel Brute damage is better. And Tankers, Tankers are tough and pay for it in damage, but average to high end Brutes and Scrappers aren't exactly dropping like flies and just get tougher the more IOs and Incarnate powers you throw at them, while comparably, there's still less room to improve Tankers offensively. And again, I point to my assertion in my previous post about better survivability becoming less useful that more powerful everyone gets.
Then there's the gap between melee ATs and everyone else. For most players, melee is easy mode compared to trying to level a Blaster, Corr or Defender. It's down to the mez system, IMO. Melee gets mez protection and that is a big part of what makes the difference. MMs and Doms have it a little better in this area, as do Controllers when they get their pets, but the squishy stigma persists.
And Khelds versus VEATs...yeah don't even have to go there.
There's a myriad of other problems, and nearly eight years it's not getting any more likely they'll every be fully addressed. Devs come and go, inherent the old problems and then pass the buck themselves. In the end it's about keeping the status quo and trying not to make things worse.
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Quote:Not to hijack the thread, but this happens to all ATs that are close to the extremes of offense and defense; they tend to be worse off than ATs that are more middle of the road.Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Blasters and Stalkers seem to be in an Uncanny Valley of game design. It would seem that at higher levels, being able to one-shot a Lieutenant 'out of the box' is verboten, and yet it seems to be what they need to be able to do.
I can understand how being able to burn down a whole spawn in one power activation is a bad thing, but single target?
Look at Tankers. They have more survivability than anyone, yet in any situation where another AT with better damage can survive, having 'superior' survivability really doesn't matter, does it? And the more powerful all of the ATs become (via Incarnate system, IOs, temp powers or what have you), the fewer the number of situations exist in the game they can't survive.
Furthermore, to flip it around, in any situation the developers intend to be lethal to everyone, that superior survivability is ignored and circumvented. A Tanker can no more stand in Battle Maiden's sword bombs than a Scrapper can, or a Blaster. And the Tanker will continue to do less damage regardless.
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At the Pummit keynote, the devs said that the Katie situation was intended to be a cliffhanger and will be resolved down the line. So that suggests some 30-40 and 40-50 content is on the way at some near future date.
My problem with that is the nature of content release in this game makes cliffhanger storytelling like that ineffective. This is simply because issues take time and they don't always continue with the same thing in the next issue. Case in point, they've been building hype for the Coming Storm for YEARS, but now many are burnt out from waiting and being teased for YEARS and no longer care.
TV shows can get away with cliffhangers because the viewers only have to wait between Spring and Fall to see them resolved. The devs could and can get away with that with the SSAs because they have a faster turnaround. But doing it the 'old way' with zone arcs just doesn't work.
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Quote:That's good, because my Incarnate Inv/SS Tractor is hitting the damage cap easily, as well as hitting the HP cap, is Defense softcapped for regular content and can easily hit the Resistance cap for everything save Psi with the T9.Originally Posted by Woolite
Oh, one of the things they did say was they want the new slots to do more than pump stats (though they do know players like those too), so they'll be more along the lines of letting you do things you weren't able to do before. I don't remember if they gave an example of what that meant though.
That only leaves Regeneration as a stat that would really add anything to the mix.
Going forward, I want things like -Res debuffs to enemies, a damage aura, more bonus damage added to my attacks, more level shifts, new attacks (like a ST melee attack to compliment Judgement).
Or Incarnate boosts that can change stat caps. If Afterburner can act as a multiplier to max flight speed, why can't the same thing be done to other existing caps?
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Quote:I thought it was a new ancillary pool for Doms.Originally Posted by Leo_G
Dark Affinity is the support equivalent of Dark Miasma and is for Controllers as a secondary...
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Quote:It was my impression Dark Control, Dark Assault and Dark Affinity was the big thing for Doms. Three new sets for them.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i'm especially interested in knowing whether they mentioned anything about what's in store for Doms.
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Quote:What?Originally Posted by Mekkanos
Finally, it was mentioned that our incarnate shifts, normally reserved for the incarnate trials, will actually work both indoors and outdoors in Dark Astoria.
The enemies in the zone only go up to level 54, according to the keynote opening speech.
In typical 'solo numbers', that's going to be a cakewalk for T4 Incarnates unless the 54 enemies get shifts themselves like in the newer trials.
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Still no points here either.
My billing date is the 29th, but my microtransactions show I got points last on Oct 13, and before that, several on Sep 13 (I assume that's the loyalty bonus for staying subbed over the summer).
I'm sitting on 3 transfer tokens, none used ever.
How much is it to expect the system to work?
I never had to worry about Vet rewards, so why is this, several months in, still a clusterf?
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Quote:No, no they weren't. People were asking for a solo path before it was even released. In fact, they were asking for it the very day Incarnates were announced.Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Agreed. I think the thing that bothered me the most about the incarnate system is that when it was released, the Devs seemed honestly suprised that there was interest in a solo path.
This wasn't a surprising turn of events at all.
I'm of the opinion the devs knew all along, but they put the solo tract on a low priority because they wanted to push people into trials. Why? Trials needed a critical mass of players participating in them to get them off the ground as a new feature.
There are people who hate trials, people who are indifferent to trials and people who love trials. The players in the first two grounds are far more likely to trial if there's no solo alternative, and them maintaining that critical mass is the only way to facilitate the third group.
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AFAIK, there wasn't an Incarnates panel, only the Powers Panel and the Endgame Panel.
And nobody is talking about either for some reason. Put me down as one of the people wondering if they said boo about any of the remaining 5 slots. -
My concept for a revamped Boomtown. I wanted to pitch some new ideas when it comes to how missions are obtained and how storylines are played out. I'm also building on and being inspired by some ideas already floating around in this thread.
Following Galaxy City's destruction, several groups have found the need to relocate their facilities, and the mostly forgotten area of Baumton seemed perfect. Once again the neighborhood has become a boom town as various factions look to lay claim to it and expand their operations.
-The Clockwork King has begun construction of his his 'Kingdom' in the North West. This area of bizarre scrap metal spires is like a twisted fantasy land done in shades of rust. Indeed, the King's legions of Clockwork have cleared the much of the debris from Boomtown to build his structures, inadvertently aiding in the City's reconstruction efforts. However, the King does not appreciate what he sees as an intrusion.
-In the south, Longbow and Freedom Corps have established a compound to house their new headquarters after the Freedom Corps building in Galaxy was lost. The Freedom Phalanx's new headquarters is also found here. This area is secure and only Heroes and Vigilantes can enter, with a door to Steel Canyon.
-In the South West, the area formerly known as Primer, construction has established new suburban residential housing. Gone are the destroyed sky scrapers. This quiet area of cul-de-sacs is home to many families of Longbow personnel. It is well policed, but being in the shadow of the nearby military base can lead to some tension. Street crime is not prevalent, but in suburbia, there are secrets behind those picket fences. There have been crazy rumors of cults, terrorist cells posing is typical families and strange creatures (even strange for Paragon City) roaming the streets in the dark nights.
-As we go further North East from the suburbs, things get a little more 'other side of the tracks'. Trailer parks, strip malls, junk yards, used car lots. An illegal garbage dump site. This area is less policed and has attracted Trolls and Lost. These cheap buildings were put up fast with little planning and mingle with the rubble and crumbling edifices that used to dominate the zone. Many Galaxy City survivors relocated here with the promise of cheap housing and construction jobs. The area's nickname of Powderkeg still applies; there's anger here as displaced professionals had to 'trade down' to get by after losing everything and the demand for labor jobs wasn't as high as initially thought, leaving many unemployed and trapped in this run down area.
-In the North East neighborhood of Cannonade, Reichsman and the the 5th Column are working to establish a massive fortress to work as their new base of operations. The Column are using the angry people of Powderkeg to swell their ranks. At the same time, Reichsman is taking in the now directionless Outcasts, training them, chemically enhancing their mutant powers and making them into his elite special forces that wield the very elements to spread his evil.
-In a pocket to the East, Arachnos has set up a small outpost under the guise of a legitimate import/export facility. This is how they are smuggling in their operatives and how Villains and Rogues gain entry to the zone from the Isles and only redsiders can gain entry.
The idea for the zone is that it becomes a "competitive co-op" zone. Red and Blue side have missions there, but they do not team up (nor do they directly fight or PvP). By completing repeatable missions and faction-specific zone events, one side can effect and 'hamper the efforts of' the other.
For example, Heroes can run a 'black ops' mission to disable the Arachnos base air defenses so Longbow's "Flying Juggernaut" can bombard it, thus triggering a zone event where Villains can defeat it.
Conversely, Villains, being the sneaky jerks they are, can run a mission that instigates an attack on the Longbow base by the Clockwork King's giant monstrosity that the heroes then defeat.
The missions themselves would be a little different than standard CoH fare of having a contact plot you out a course, which you run until they hand you off to the next contact. I've been playing Saints Row the Third and I've come to appreciate the freedom its design gives you in progressing while being able to have a storyline.
First, there would be a set of "Power Struggle" missions in a spirit of undermining the other faction's attempts at a stronger foothold in the zone. These are 100% optional. They would be repeatable and would figure into the 'hamper the other side' concept. If possible using the phasing tech or similar to what was done in Recluse's Victory, factions could gain control of areas by completing instanced missions there. If one side needs to collect some Zone Glowies, it's made harder if the area is controlled by the other faction and it's spawning extra enemies. The goal isn't to make the other factions Power Struggle missions *much harder*, just to show visually that Longbow "owns" that area right now. Also, your faction controlling areas helps you in some tangible way like bonus drops, so there's incentive to want to control areas but it's not a big loss if you don't.
Besides the Power Struggle missions, there are also proper story arcs.
Villain arcs would revolve around efforts to scavenge valuables from the ruins and play off the NPC groups against each other while the Heroes' efforts are to defeat the machinations of the NPC enemy factions in the zones and protect the people there.
These missions would not be given by standard contacts, however.
Building on the mechanic used for Mortimer Kal, arcs in the zone would be "found" via tips by heroes "going on patrol" and villains shaking down people for leads. A tip for an arc or one-off mission has a small chance of dropping from *any enemy* in the zone you defeat, but defeating a random Clockwork has a greater chance of dropping a Clockwork tip.
Also, finding and defeating a SPECIFIC named mob or clicking on a suspicious glowie in the zone would have a 100% chance of dropping the related Tip. Also paying attention to NPC dialogue is key, as a passerby or random conversation may be dropping a clue to the location of a tip glowie/mob.
So, patrolling and exploration is rewarded, but not required.
So, If your hero wants to target Reichsman's operation, he can and he'll get 5th Column one-off missions and arcs.
If your villain is after riches, snooping around the destroyed bank may yield a clue to a lost safety deposit box.
Thus Villains aren't just puppets dancing for Arachnos, they've got something at stake for themselves and can actively go out looking for opportunities and heroes get to be heroic without always doing what someone else is telling them.
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Quote:No, Katie remains part of the network by the end of the First Ward arcs. And, from what I hear, she isn't mentioned or shown being freed at the end of the upcoming Minds of Mayhem Incarnate trial where we bring down Mother and the Seers for good.Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Did we ever free Kate from the network?
Either she's one of the hundreds of Seers that players kil-- um...'defeat' during the trial, or she'll be freed somwhere in the 30-50 range.
Or the devs have forgotten about her. Just another woman in the refrigerator.
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