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Quote:The question becomes though; is that style unique enough to be considered as its own powerset, or would it (with the right weapon models) fall into the Dual Blades or other weapon-based powerset? I think it's probably too niche to ever be considered for becoming an actual powerset (too much to hope for, I think) but I'd be terribly happy if the weapon models worked themselves into the game somewhere so I could at least act the part.
Thoughts?
There's no good reason for them not to just be a custom weapon to Dual Blades.
The damage type doesn't match, but neither do some of the Titan Weapons, Warmace and the Fire and Ice VIP weapon models. So yeah, bang out a couple of 5 sided cylinders from 3dsmax, add wood textures, rigging helper objects and done. That should be less than an afternoon's work.
Now, tonfa would require it's own power set. It's a specialized set of movements you really can't fudge with an existing power set. I don't think we need any more weapon sets right now, but down the road after they add a dozen or so more actual super powers to the game, I wouldn't mind a tonfa set.
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Quote:Nope. Juggy is still a Brute. An extremely well-built Brute, but a Brute.Juggernaut, although superstrong, is more known for being unstoppable (and for being uber durable). In a lot of his encounters, it wasn't the fact that he could pound you into the ground without breaking a sweat, it was that he simply couldn't be taken down without using psi powers, generally.
Juggernaut does not operate like a tank. He doesn't serve only as a distraction. He's not defensive minded or overly concerned with his team, he plows straight ahead and makes short work of whatever is in front of him. That screams Brute. He doesn't chip away at minions with a T1 attack. He doesn't stand there, shouting insults at his enemies, while his teammates do most of the damage.
On the Marvel wiki, both his Durability and Strength are rated 7 out of 7. If he was a Tanker, his durability would be 7, but his Strength would only be 3-4.
Additionally, his offensive power has been right up there with the World War-level Hulk, a Brute who's Fury bar was locked at max for that crossover. If Juggy was a Tanker, his damage would have capped out long before that point.
Juggernaut is a Brute. He doesn't hit like a little girl.
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If Premium players weren't treated as second class and VIP players treated better than them, there'd be no VIP players.
And if there were no VIP players, everyone would be treated worse than they are now, assuming there was still was a game to treat anyone any way.
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Incidentally, I don't believe Hercules is a Tanker either.
There's really only four Tankers, as the AT is presently, in Marvel comics that come to mind:
Unus the Untouchable
http://www.comicvine.com/unus/29-3438/
Cannon Fodder
http://www.comicvine.com/cf/29-40997/
Butter Ball
http://www.comicvine.com/butterball/29-54440/
and arguably Mr. Immortal
http://www.comicvine.com/mr-immortal/29-2486/
Everyone else has considerable offensive might, which makes them Brutes or Scrappers of varying levels of power.
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Quote:The difference is, the people who vehemently disagree with me on Tankers don't insult me in the least. If I could, I'd give most of them a juice box, some stickers and send them on their way.How does that stack up to someone who has to aggressively tout how tankers must be broken and defend against why everyone else must be wrong?
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Quote:You're right. It isn't an argument. I called his anecdote BS and that is that. That's why I don't have to bother showing up to his invitation. I've got nothing to defend to him.Well, then if you know he's wrong, why do you need to attack his statement? You know he's wrong, and you don't have to defend squat. You wouldn't need to argue with him... unless you're not so sure he's completely off the mark.
But, like I said, if he's mad because I told the truth about what Tankers are, sorry that's too bad. It makes me mad too. I'm not who he should be mad at.
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Quote:I don't need to piddle around with his Tanker on Freedom to know he's wrong.OK, then call his bluff. He gave you a server, a character name, and an open invitation.
Quote:Plus, you seem to have totally forgotten that people identify strongly with their characters, so calling Tankers an "outmoded joke" makes people get quite angry with you.
Quote:In this case, it doesn't even matter if you're right or not, you're just insulting people, and they're disagreeing with you on principle.
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Quote:The entire story could easily be fabricated and probably was?Very interesting theory, Mr. Charleston. However, leave out one important point...
Why, I remember the time my Dark/Dev Blaster took on the entire portal army on Sutter TF, and by the time the smoke cleared with me still standing, not only were all the melee ATs on my team dead, so was every Brute on Protector. And the TF was on Infinity!
So clearly this anecdote shows Blasters are superior to both Tankers and Brutes, in every situation.
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Quote:Without crucial additional information, such as who had IOs and who was operating on old SOs and six slotted Brawl, I'll take a stab and say the SS Brute was probably pulling aggro from your EM Tanker, who was also using Power Sink heavily. The Brute's toggles likely dropped from both the Carnies end drain and from any Dark Ring Mistresses slapping Mask of Cheapmechanization on them.Really? Last night three of us, all 50 lvl none incarnates at the time, completed 3 consecutive missions for Crimson that had us facing Malta/Nemesis, Knives of Artemis, and Carnies/Knives. Our setting was on +1/+5. My tanker, an Electric Armor/Energy Melee, his brute, a SS/WP, and our MM is a Robot/Time Manipulation.
Also the fact that Static Shield is brokenly good in this instance doesn't hurt.
In short, the reason your Tanker had it so easy was probably because you were being carried and your power set had an inherent advantage.
But that's what happens when comparing four very different power sets.
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As to if Hulk is a Tanker or a Brute...
He's both.
When CoH First launched, he was a Tanker.
Tankers were supposed to represent super strong and invulnerable heroes from comics. Even Hulk. Jack Emmert used to compare Tankers to the Hulk. The problem was, Tankers had fail damage. Super strong characters from comics, tend not to. To address this, they designed the Fury mechanic, the one everyone agrees it's pretty much supposed to be Hulk-like, FOR TANKERS.
Quote:That in bold, is Fury. Designed and intended FOR TANKERS. Tankers never got it. Instead, they packaged it up and used it so sell boxes of CoV to people fed up with Tankers and their fail damage. And that is the origin of Brutes.As promised, I've been looking into the issues facing Tankers; I thought I'd explain the direction we're going. As we analyed it, Tankers have three very valid concerns (aside from the issues with specific power sets):
1. Without Provoke, they are not a real Tanker. Those people who enjoy the MMP role of "meat shield" have trouble holding aggro properly.
2. The Tanker's defense stats can be matched by a properly slotted Scrapper - but the Tanker can not approach the Scrapper in damage.
3. The Tanker doesn't "feel" like a comic book Tanker should. And frankly, this one really, really bothered me. Because our game is a comic book MMP.
So - here's the solution we're going to try internally. We went through a ton of possible solutions, and we weighed each one against how well they answered the three points above as well as how long it would take to get done.
1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out....
2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes. I can't say that the Tanker will do as much damage as a Scrapper - but it'll certainly be more than he does now. This ability really gets to the core of a comic book Tanker. He's extremely powerful - but at the start of a fight, he holds himself back some. As the battle progresses, he lets loose....I prefer this system to a power because this way it's inherent. It's simply the nature of the Archetype. And it also sets the Tanker apart from the Scrapper's criticals.
Of course, the thought in your minds must be....WHEN?...I'm afraid I don't know. First, we need some code for this. Then we've got to test it thoroughly. Finally, it'll go on the Test Server for awhile to gather data and impressions. This is going to take some time; but I thought you'd like to know at least where we're going, even though we don't know when we'll get there.
So the truth is Hulk is both because Brutes are the Tanker's better designed successor and Tankers are, well, just an outmoded joke of an AT the devs threw under a bus that still hit like little girls.
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Quote:I disagree, mostly.My only hedge on that is that Brutes have more offense than defense, and Tankers have more defense than offense, and when I compare the Hulk's own offense to his own defense when enraged, I believe the Hulk is usually depicted to be tougher than he is strong: The Hulk can't knock out the Hulk, the Hulk can survive the Hulk, basically. That makes him more of a Tanker.
The classic savage green Hulk is all about offense. Contrast him with grey Hulk/Mr. Fixit, who doesn't have the rage boosting mechanic, and it's the area of damage and strength he loses out on. Grey-Fixit have never been shown to be considerably less durable than Green, but they have shown to be less offensively capable and weaker.
"The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets" has never applied strictly to his resistance to damage or regenerative abilities. It's mostly about his over all offensive power level. It's not his regeneration that allowed him to hold up a mountain in Secret Wars, after all.
I'm willing to accept the argument that maybe his defensive capabilities do increase to a certain degree, but it's mostly his strength and offense that gets boosted.
Really, if I was going to model it properly in game, instead of a damage buff Fury would provide level shifts.
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In a post-Incarnate world of Barrier and Rebirth (and now the Might of the Tanker proc), Unstoppable is a relic best avoided except maybe as a set mule. Even before Incarnates it was a pretty bad power. Now it's just laughable.
Think about it: a survival click power that takes all of your health and endurance away. File that under "moronic ideas" right next to the failed version of Fly that roots you.
T9 defensive powers and T9 nukes with crashes really need to be looked at. Even if Unstopp flagged you as utterly unkillable/ignores even unresisted damage for three minutes, it still wouldn't be worth the crash.
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Quote:First off, she didn't "call" the 4 legged rig. Some time ago they put up a job opening specifically looking for animators with experience animating non-bipeds. A lot of people, including me, 'called' that this meant they were possibly going to work on a 4-legged rig. When the Halloween event came out with the idle wolf, that confirmed it. It was a safe bet after that they would utilize such a rig further.you know, after she called the 4 legged rig thing, i have begun to pay more attention to her. from what i understand she hits the big developer fan meetups often and has mentioned hearing devs talking ingame with info, so while she cant outright say things, I do sometimes think there may be wisdom in noting if she seems really sure of something.
That's not insider knowledge, that's just basic reasoning and paying attention.
It's very easy to make a vague prediction, followed by a winky face, and then if it happens to come true down the road, quote the long forgotten thread and then "have been right all along". What you don't see is the vast majority of predictions and vague winky statements that never came true, or were outright wrong that don't get necro'd.
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Quote:Point of order:If this was back when DDO first went to a hybrid business model I'd agree with you 110%. However this isn't the case. The MMO community as a whole, has had several years to get used to the idea that F2P in MMO's (DDO, LOTRO, CO, STO, AoC, DCUO, Warhammer, WOW, Lineage II, Dungeon Runners to name a few) doesn't automatically mean unlimited/unrestricted access when playing for free.
Not everyone who tries this game comes from "the MMO community", whatever that is.
Hell, I play this MMO, for a half decade in fact, and I don't identify myself as part of "the MMO community".
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Quote:The idea of a hybrid payment model, which CoH Freedom game is, is to give potential customers a better taste of what the game offers, but only in the hopes they'll spend money on the game and actually BE customers. Much like free samples in a supermarket.The idea of free to play games is that you're trying to get people to play who wouldn't otherwise and then, once they're hooked, or hooked again, they start paying money.
Think of such a model as an extended trial with way more features and no time limit along with a vast discount on renting features that you didn't used to be able to rent a la carte.
If someone has played the game enough in the past to get an IOed out build, as the OP apparently has, they're well aware of the game and what it offers. They don't need a preview.
If they left in the past for any reason, and they're unwilling/unable to pay now even to unlock their IOs, they're NOT who the devs want to be catering to because they aren't really potential customers, not until they're willing and able to part with their money.
At heart, they're hypocrites. "Let me play your game for free so I know if there's anything I'd want to spend money on. But I refuse to spend money on IOs because I want them."
In any other business, they'd toss you on your butt. If you made such a declaration at the supermarket, that you had no intention of buying anything or had no money and was just there to mooch from the sample vendors, and then had the gall to complain about the quality of free samples, you wouldn't garner much sympathy from either the store management or the customers.
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Switch to your second build. Buy SOs. Don't have enough inf? Hit up a friend. Don't have a friend? Pay the cash for the license to reactivate your IOs for a month.
It's simple, as long as you're not someone who's looking for something for nothing or someone looking a gift horse in the mouth. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need any more of those types hanging around since they never seriously had the intention of spending money on the game. If they do have the intention, the IO license makes a very good first purchase. HINT HINT.
Sincerely
A VIP customer who's paying to keep the game running.
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