John_Printemps

I'd rather have Ice Armor if its all the same to everyone else.

The reason Castle was [ignoring] Spines was because of it's secondary effects. It has Slows, Toxic, and Immobilizes in semi-random ways. It could really use some balancing to bring it up with other sets, but at the same time it was still functionally doing it's original prime-design of AoE just fine. The thing with revisiting Spines was that if he did, Castle was certain that when it was all done, he'd have removed most of its secondary abilities/effects and felt that people were more likely to be upset by this fact; thus decided to leave it be.

It helps to help clear the field on what exactly it is you're trying to do with the build. Not everyone has the same build expectations, budget, or desires for what their character is going to be capable of achieving.

Example: Are you trying to reach a defense level of some kind? HP? Recharge? +Damage Bonuses? Tighten Endurance demands?

Defining what your expectations are is more likely to receive more beneficial feedback.

... I didn't even know about this until long after the deadline. I mean, really, who checks this section, amirite?

But I see someone else already linked back to the thread in the Scrapper forums from May '11! Anything useful I could've added was discussed between Werner, Iggy, Elegost, Arcanville, and Myself back then.

Just thought I'd point out that this isn't accurate. Dark Regen with 83% Recharge Enhancement, Spiritual Core (45%), and 137.5% Global Recharge (including Hasten there), Dark Regen is at 8.28/s Recharge. And to break down that global: Hasten (70%), 2x 5%, 2x 10%, 5x 7.5% (LotG). It takes a lot more than just two LotG's, and Agility.

Side Tangent: Running a build with the aforementioned Global Recharge, Agility Core, and only 26% Rech Enhancement in Dark Regen gets it to 11.36/s, and even that is pretty good for a potentially 100% heal (and at base, 49.97% for one target). In fact, to compare: Reconstruction on a */Regen build with 150% Global Recharge, Spiritual Core only got down to 16.4/s Recharge Time for a 55% heal. Really, Dark Regen is a beast of a heal, and when the Theft of Essence Proc practically makes it free? Ridiculous.

Edit, thought I might mention:
I did have a DM/DA for a while, but stalled out at 38. The lack of consistent AoE really killed the character for me, and having a DM/SD really out-shined the DM/DA. I ended up re-rolling that character and he's now a level 45 TW/DA that's been a lot more promising on both standpoints. Although that too got sidetracked by other alts. Dark Melee is really great, has lots of tools and tricks and pairs well with it's thematic secondary, but it doesn't come packed with consistent (15/s or less Recharge) AoE. I wouldn't say that its lack of AoE is a problem with Dark Melee, but Dark Armor is a strongly "multi-target-centric" secondary that benefits from being in the thick of things.

I'm still only paying $15.00 a month, that price hasn't changed in seven years. Once you realize that, you'll be back.

Actually, it does, along with Snow and Arcana developing that same response in-depth for the last page.

Actually, no, I was being serious.

...I can get 60% on SR with only including Weave, IO's, and Agility/Nerve
...I can get 45% on SR with only Agility/Nerve
...I can get 45% on SR with only Weave and IO's
...I can get 45% on SR with only IO's
...I can get 45% on SR with Weave, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping, without using any IO's or Alphas.

45% Wasn't supposed to be "easy" or generally "within reach", just relatively close. I9 changed the game, IO's changed Defense for many players (put it within reach). SR may be a defense-specific power set, but they will never give it "permanent 45%" within it's own design. And yes, I would love to eat those words.

Aw, but come on! That guy has a YACHT!

Spindle (Spines/DA): Has two auras that assist with maintaining your green bar in the forms of mez (Fear/Stun), a solid revive that has a high-mag Stun included as well that can help get you back on your feet should you stumble and fall. Also comes pre-packed with some defense that makes building for those goals a little bit easier. Downside in this combination is the endurance consumption, though. Requires excessive toggles and you'll most likely be looking to Conserve Power and/or Cardiac Alpha to remedy these concerns. This is the oldest of the "Lawnmowers" and is the most well-rounded and secure.

Spires (Spines/FA): Total focus on Damage. The secondary comes with added damage both in a higher-rated damage aura, and another AoE (Burn). The heal on this is still solid and you get to cut a toggle out due to the nature of this sets design ("no mez toggle"), and Fiery Embrace emphasizes the ideal of "Moar Damage". This set lacks a foundation for building defense, and has no preventative tools; but does include a +End ability. It's primary goal is to dish out as much offensive damage as possible.

Spintrics (Spines/Elec): Damage Aura, high energy resists rounded with smashing/lethal make this a heavily idealized version of the three options in Incarnate content. This secondary heavily contributes to the correction of how much endurance these builds consume (Energize/Power Sink), and has a traditional Tier 9 to readily use as well (compared to the Resurrects in */DA and */FA). While it lacks defense to build on, it is still possible to get this one up there due to the fact you'll spend less time focusing on endurance management, and more time on Recharge/Defense/Damage. It wont have the same high level of damage as Fire, but this combination is very well rounded and easier on a casual play style with inherent endurance controls while still being a heavy contender in iContent.

Electric Armor will end up suiting you just fine, and will make your solo experiences a lot more manageable once you're able to use Energize and Power Sink consistently. Focus on starting off low (-1 Mobs), street sweeping with one of these (Spine Burst/Damage Aura), you'll find you'll level rather quickly. The biggest thing to remember is these style of builds work faster when they don't have to spend a lot of time in each individual mob. This is all about kill-quantity rather than mob-quality. A Spines that runs through a mission at -1/0 will gain virtually more XP per minute than the person who attempts to run at +2 to +4 from levels two to ~30 solo.

I like Hacky Sack. I like MMO's.

I Should make a Hacky Sack MMO.

And no one remembered to bring the cheese

On a lighter note... Why don't we have some kind of Hamidon Origin drop/reward somewhere in the Incarnate/First Ward stuff for 50's? It makes sense thematically that one of the Praetorians may "accidentally drop" a synthetic HO they acquired during all their bouts with Hami/Devouring Earth. It would increase their spread, lower their difficulty to obtained, and maybe make them a little more integrable into game-society than they are currently. Maybe a random chance to have the option on your Reward List for an iTrial, or stick them in an iTrial "Very Rare" drop category. I'm sure the developers could make this make sense somewhere.

Yes. I believe this is the part they were after.

Also, that crab time included Lore pets and was circumstantial; on their own the crab only did something lilike 200-250 dps.

This isn't what everyone's arguing with you about being "false." Yes, 70% versus 95% does have an impact on general game play in regards to dipping below the 45% threshold. But lets step back for a moment and remember you're specifically talking about high-end builds of which should be shooting for 47-48% anyway; meaning you can take that 3% debuff and keep on trucking. Yes, the next one might be rough, but how often ever do you see those stack significantly enough while above 45%? I've played hundreds of hours through */SR and never seen a stack of debuffs together. If one ever gets through, its often gone before the next one comes in. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but it is unlikely. In regards to */SD, same deal, spent a lot of time on him before I ever got around to throwing Membranes in Active Defense. He may have dipped on occasion, but 80% of the time he was back up before another debuff came in; and if I was ever concerned, a small purple was a quick safety net to avoid an occasional double stacked debuff before it faded away.

This is why everyone's saying you're crying "DOOM" about */SD. The set is balanced far more than you're willing to accept. Lets analyze: Willpower makes up for cascading failure in its moderate resistances and potential for super-regen. Invulnerability makes up for differences in a T9 that can jump start it into higher resists and a tool for insta-HP. Stone: Granite, that's enough on it's own. Ice: +HP, and Hibernate, EA: A heal and a T9. Shield's own tools are +HP, reasonable S/L resists achievable, a pocket of slightly better than normal DDR, and two tools focused on pushing damage; one in particular that can instantly give you a bit of breathing room if you need to shake a sudden Debuff in a crater-forming KD.

I'm not trying to argue any points, just layout why it seems those who've been involved really don't agree with your sentiments about */SD.

HO's were technically a lot less valuable from the get-go. They may cost 400m Inf, but that was simply because there's never been a great supply of them. They're not going to randomly drop on you, pull up from an AE Ticket List, or convert out of some kind of Merits. HO's require time and effort to obtain, and that is what you're paying for. Time Investment.

Fire is only a massively popular set on Brutes, namely SS/FA, and not because it is "ub3r", but because it has a strong and quickly recharged AoE, a nice Build-Up mechanic, and Capped Fire Resists. It also requires some significant investment to transition it into a "1337 F4rm3r".

And in regards to */SR being affected by Enzymes? False. The most powerful */SR build I've ever released didn't require a single HO. Enzymes, in fact, ended up harming the build more than supporting it.

I hate to say it, but this actually ties you heavily into the "I have a Lamborghini" claim. This "exploit" impacted the entire player base. From twisted Power-Boosts to Over-Enhanced Defenses, it was doing something that was never intended but unfortunately not correctable due to the way the game was hard coded by (shudder) Cryptic on Day One. Obviously it has taken some time to locate and correct the issue that caused this without altering a huge subsection of the game (or it did, and they've hidden the struggle well). At this point you're basically saying "My Lamborghini gets 11 MPG, its unfair that gas is $4.00/g, it costs me a ton to drive this thing." A Car is a Car, gas costs the same for everyone. Just because your car cost $387,000 doesn't mean you're the only one who is affected by $4.00/g gas. It just means you expected the world when a $25,000 vehicle uses gas the same way.

If you're willing to post it (or even PM it to me), I'd like to see this supposed "worthless to fix" */SD build you speak of. I had my own open yesterday and flipped a couple things around to take Maneuvers out of the build and add Spring Attack for a bit of fun. Removed Maneuvers, build is now 48/47.5/47.8 M/R/A, 37.7 S/L Resists, and over 2,000 HP and 300% Regen. 70% DDR means I can take at least one debuff and still be at 45%, two and still be "okay", and considering they average 7.5% a piece, and only last ~10/s in the first place... I'm more likely to have the first one wear off before I get hit a second time. If I was really concerned, I could leave Maneuvers in and stay at 51/50/50 and have enough room to take two debuffs; again still "safe.

Shield has +Dam, +HP, Resits, Defense, and a major offensive AoE. This semi-splashes similarities in nearly every other defense-including secondary out there. It doesn't have a heal, but it gets +HP, it doesn't have a supreme amount of "out of the box" defense or resists, but it gets a nice ramp of +Dam and an attack. They say the best defense is a good offense. The defensive line never has to get on the field if the quarterback never drops the ball!* Honestly, without Membranes, this shows just how balanced the set actually is.

I fully understand that the "feeling" is gone, the love for the character shattered. I still think it is unfortunate, though, that you went so far before you had a chance to take off the blinders.



*Please, don't quote "Rules of the Game", I'm just making a light-hearted comparison.

I think, yes, that calling shinanigans might be in place at this point. The difference of an Enzyme build versus a full IO build was 1%. For the most part, the Agility Alpha makes up for HO's (and then some) while still maintaining what most players sought (the recharge of Spiritual). In regard to Membranes, so you can't get 98% DDR, 70% isn't all that bad and a hell of a sight better than some secondaries get (which is like, none, actually).

It definitely comes off like you're /em crai a lot heavier than some. To completely strip and delete a toon over 1%? You're not going to go stand at the front of the forums with a picket-sign screaming about the "1%" are you? You're entitled to your opinion on this, of course, but you might be taking it a liiiiiiiiiittle too harshly.

I copied my DM/SD during one of the "working moments" of the copy tool and flipped over to test today. Membranes are officially no longer working to support AD, but I also have it double-stacked still and Grant Cover so he sits comfortably at 70%, ~53% without Grant Cover.

This thread is like a support group for those addicted to Enzyme, a drug that's been majorly abused since Issue Nine (released nearly five years ago). So everyone retorting "lolsucks2bu", really? It may have been an "exploit," but it is also one that's been around for a very long time. People are due their chance to "/e crai" for a minute.

Don't loose hope, both 45% and 59% are still within reach! I know, I have both builds.

Massive drop in wha...?

Okay, you snagged me, I had to double check. You put Hecatomb in Smite (and used the full damage over the dam/end, this isn't a good call as you've zero end reduction in that power slotting that way) versus my placing it in Midnight's Grasp to maximize all the recharge that set can pumps into a power more effectively. The slotting can be reversed, however and MG can still be under 4/s recharge but at a pretty big cut to do so.

As the build was posted, mine: 157.53 DPS. Yours as posted: 167.87. If I flip Smite/MG in mine and use the sixth slot in Smite for a second proc (Mako's): 166.56

Endurance Per Second on the revised chain: 3.33, EPS on the original: 3.03 (not major, but can be the difference of firing off heals or not with success). Toggle EPS: .96, net EPS of the build w/ Perf Procs: 4.27. It would really have to run the original chain to be sustained, otherwise it's looking at a minimal .02 loss per second, whereas the other still stays positive outside of heals. This is really only relevant in circumstances where you'd be fighting non-stop though.

Oh, and on your build, the Gross EPS: 3.89, Toggle Burn: .95, Attack EPS: 4.02, which is way in the red.

For further thought, taking the numbers out of the build I posted. Reconstruction has a virtual EPS of ~.103eps if fired every time it was up, and Dull pain is ~.023eps, Soul Drain every 34.098/s is ~.03eps

I know that's really rambling, but I was thinking of it at the time, so I just documented the whole thing as I looked at it. But, your build posted versus the one I posted is only a 10.34 DPS difference which is like the difference of the 5% global damage and a slightly off tweak on using a full Dam IO in Hecatomb versus the Dam/End. Oh, and the biggest contender is in Siphon Life. 276.9 Heal versus 207.5 per activation. That's nearly 660 more HP healed per minute, or just a bit over a quarter of your capped HP. Heck, Reconstruction does 715 in one shot, that's like getting a free Reconstruction every minute.

Edit: Something else I found interesting: Siphon Life's 276.9 every 5.002/s turns into just a tad over 3,300 HP healed a minute whereas Reconstruction comes just shy of 2,600 HP/minute. Of course Siphon Life has a To-Hit check and isn't guaranteed. It was still interesting.

Actually, I took slots out of Quick Recovery (four), Integration (one), Instant Healing (two), Reconstruction (one), Boxing (one), and just flat out removed the Touch of Death's and Obliterations altogether. They're a poor source for S/L, and Positional Defense is supremely complicated on */Regen's that don't carry something like Parry. S/L just turns out to be a better call. The slots in Maneuvers/Shadow Meld I just flat out switched to LotG's. Enzyme'd Maneuvers: 3.63%, Lotg'd Maneuvers: 3.36%. That's a huge pocket of influence spent to chase ~.3%

32.4% S/L Defense, 750% Regen (Pre IH), Perma Hasten, improved Siphon Life considerably, and made sure there was proper slotting to run Smite > Siphon Life > Smite > Midnight Grasp, and took out some Enzymes, made the build more "proper" (no cheat-HO's).

I don't really consider Ninja/Beast/Steam "Temps" more as "Purchased permenant travel powers." But, yes, I use those pretty much exclusively unless there's a conceptual reason to take just the travel itself. And, no, Doctored Wounds isn't really "Better". It's cheap and easy to get a hold of, but there's better ways to slot */Regen then with Doctored Wounds if you can get away with it. On a no-purples build, sure, stick D.W.'s in Reconstruction and Dull Pain, but I wouldn't use it anywhere else as Numina's has far better set bonuses (+Regen, +HP).

And, I don't really want to sound Caddy on it, but comparatively to the last build you posted, the one I tossed up has far more Regen/HP going for it. Granted Dull Pain does over-cap HP in either case, having a higher starting HP tends to be better. Also, with the way I slotted out and global-hunted for bonuses, Follow Up was only ~.3/s off of a FU>Focus>Slash chain. This isn't really a "big deal", but I want to point out these are things to keep an eye out for with slotting. Follow-Up deserves 6-Slots, not five.

I'm in no way trying to say one build is better than another, but definitely want the build-knowledge to come through to help your further investments. I will admit, I drive my friends insane with some of the small things I consistently do in builds that seem "insane" some times, but end up with huge benefits.