Jibikao
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Posts
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Quote:Even with Shatter Armor you feel your damage is low? Do you have double assault as well?Originally Posted by Exxar
Banes have awesome burst damage but their sustained ST DPS is crap. They are also melee toons purely based on defense with no DDR whatsoever. Because of that, I ended up speccing out of my bane build. He was awesome while leveling, weak in the endgame when he was all pimped out and softcapped (compared to your usual scrapper or whatnot experience). Sure, the buffs are nice, but I can have those with a huntsman or crab too. The only thing banes have going for them are the extra ST res debuffs in Surveillance and Shatter armor (although technically you can get that one on huntsmans and crabs too), but even with those, I was not satisfied with my sustained damage output (felt sluggish as hell too). -
Quote:I find Vengence quite good even if you are soft-cap because others may not. There are bound to have some people die.Originally Posted by Chuckles07
For the soft capped NW's, do you find that vengence is worthwhile?
It only takes one slot. -
Fortunta focusing on mezzing is the only build I don't have experience with and mostly because Fort doesn't get Domination. I believe I either hold everything or don't bother with it at all. My current does have hold but I mostly focus on buffs and damage.
However, Fort can uses several chance to hold procs to hold bosses with one application occassionally. It's definitely doable but just not my cup of tea. -
When I think of "versatile", I am only really looking for how well this character does in certain categories. Just because my Bane took Aid Other, it doesn't make him a "good" healer.
However, my Bane can do 3-4 categories "really well" and that makes him a versatile character on the team.
1. He debuffs resistance well (which means more damage for the team) and is valuable against AVs.
2. He has very high damage (and burst damage). He can take on damage role easily.
3. He provides great team defense-against-all up to 19-20% around him, which makes him valuable especially at lower level when people don't have soft-capped defense.
4. He can stealth just as well as Stalker so in case the team needs to scout and tp, I can do it.
5. Semi-role in meatshield: I have almost soft-capped defense and if I am on a team with anyone with Maneuver (or if I eat one small purple), I can handle alpha in most situations. I can't do it in LRSF but in most cases, my Bane can take quite a bit of beating. Mind you, I am NOT a tanker. I can't control aggro. I can handle alpha aggro and take hits. I can easily start the fight with BU + Crowd Control and use Web Envelop to immb mobs. -
Quote:I've played many Stalkers and I just recently try to use Placate as a "defensive" power, rather than as an offensive critical power.Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
When SoAs first came out I tried to convince people that the time used placating (on a bane with it's much weaker crit) didn't equal out to higher DPS than just bashing the target upside the head again. I'm glad to see at least a few people are starting to finally catch on to that.
Let's say that I am soloing and there are 3 minions, I would put Placate on one of them at first and then BU + Shatter the 2nd minion and once the 2nd is dead, I work on the 3rd one. This is funny because the first minion that I placated still doesn't know I am there! It is almost like Dominator's strategy where you Hold One and Attack Another.
I normally only use Placate for Crowd Control because there is 50% chance for critical damage. -
Is it true that there is no "Bear" head?? Please tell me it's false!!!
I was looking forward to this pack because I love Bear-theme. I love making Bear type of toons.
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Quote:On Defender, yes but for MM, /Dark is better because Tar Patch is a "pet" so the debuff value is higher than MM's Trick Arrow debuffs which use MM's debuff scale.Originally Posted by CBeet
Trick Arrow also debuffs everything else Dark can, in an AoE, plus -def, -perception, an AoE hold and AoE attack (Oil Slick Arrow when lit).
Trick Arrow also has Acid Arrow, another -res for a total of -40% in an AoE (as a Defender), plus the power has -def and some toxic DoT which can be abused for procs (chance for knockdown, 4 chances for damage, chance for +tohit and chance for another -20% resistance) all on a 20 second recharge at base. Acid and Disruption Arrow can both be thrown out in 2.5 seconds(ish).
Dark one-ups by superior -tohit and healing/ressurecting, Trick Arrow is there to stop the enemy from being able/alive enough to take anyone out in the first place. It also looks cool.
MM"s Trick Arrow debuff values feel so low....
Defender's Trick Arrow values are very high. -
Quote:I know mine can't. Not with Necro/Pain or Merc/Storm. At lvl 50, if I am fighting Malta, Longbow or Carnies, I am pretty much doomed. There is no way I can survive all the mez attacks.Originally Posted by Yorukira
I want to see how many MM out there can solo a missh lv+4/8 in game.
I'm not talking about kill boss papermissh I mean complete a whole lv 50 arc in that setting.
Have try it with my ninja/dark and 2 Vanguard sword Boss in every mob is a huge challenge.
There most be some MM out there to pull one of this off.
If you made it, say with what mission and Combination,and how you play it.
I have yet to get level shift with any of my MM. -
Quote:Part of the reason I only brought up Scrapper is that I know Brute has a "good" role on the team. Brute is versatile enough to take both damage and tanking role. I don't even want to touch "Brute or Stalker? Who would you choose?" subject... it won't end pretty. lolOriginally Posted by Siolfir
Since I don't think I ever explicitly stated it in this thread, I was content with the imbalance as it existed and assumed that it was within the "noise of other factors" that you talk about. The only AT I discriminated against on teams was Masterminds, and that was due to the sheer number of people who think that standing there and letting their pets wander uncontrolled around the map aggroing everything they can is the "correct" way to play. I know what a good MM can do, but until I know that someone can play a MM well, I don't want to team with them.
So anyway, I felt that things were skewed, but not so much that it really needed to be tweaked. But then the devs tweaked the melee ATs - reducing the Brute damage cap and average damage due to Fury, giving Tankers a resistance debuff for a little more damage and a higher hit point cap, leaving Scrappers alone, apparently as the baseline, while Stalkers got... what? Oh, yeah. They still do less damage in most situations than Scrappers with less survivability, and a post much later after I started a thread about the imbalance saying "they're as strong as we want to make them".
But the stated logic behind the Brute changes was due to them often doing more damage than Scrappers while having more survivability. For full disclosure on the subject, I don't even consider the Fury changes a "nerf", although it did reduce my sustained +damage during most missions on my Brutes enough people like the steadier level that it's debatable; the definite nerf is the damage cap reduction which means that damage buffs always favor the Scrapper. If that amount of difference was significant enough to make a change for one AT then why not another?
That's where I'm coming from on this issue - it's not because all I play are Stalkers, although my Stalkers outnumber my Scrappers 2-1, but because I want some form of consistent behavior in how such balance changes are enacted. That consistency is why I was fine with the nerf to Shield Charge, even though I was pushing for a buff to Lightning Rod at the time - they didn't do what I was hoping for, but at least SC doesn't completely outclass LR in every imaginable way now like it did when it did full damage to the entire radius.
On the side note, I do feel Brute fury change is a buff for me as I used to hate losing fury so quickly. I enjoy my Brute more now but I still don't have a lvl 50 Brute...
I honestly think if they change Team Critical buff to Defender's Vigilance, we'll see Stalker out-damage scrapper at least in the ST department (except maybe Dark Melee and follow-up stacked Claw/DB). -
I am curious to find out what is the newest data on how many and how long the players keep their new Stalkers especially on the Hero side. I can imagine some hero players who get "ganked" by Stalkers in pvp zone probably thought Stalker is such an "awesome" AT.
The newest data I've read is back in 2008? -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't have any problem with that. I'd love to see Stalkers get some love.
What I do not accept is this broadly justifies whether or not to include a Stalker on a team. I do not accept that the (arguably inappropriate) limits on their AT's performance we would like changed have an affect on a team that is so large that we can readily perceive it given performance variations caused by factors we often can't control, such as how a given player built their character or how well they play.
Again, this thread has people answering two questions. One is "do you think that Stalkers could stand to be improved?" The other is, stated somewhat differently than how the OP presented it, "do you discriminate against adding Stalkers to your teams" (because of Stalkers could use improvement)?
My answer to the first question is a nearly unqualified "yes", and my answer to the second is a nearly unqualified "no".
And I want to clarify that I DO NOT discriminate Stalkers. Hell, I am surprised that after counting all the lvl 30+ characters that I have, Stalker ranks #1 (but it's not my most favorite, Bane is).
I keep making them even though I keep having problems with them and it just frustrates me that the people I play with have a STRONG dislike of Stalker and I simply wonder if Scrapper is all that better?
I have to admit, as a person who usually invites people, I do feel like inviting a Stalker (and sometimes Dominator) is like a gamble. The last stalker I invited, I was not thrilled at all. He was literally waiting to AS and then waiting to re-hide. His DPS is terrible because of that. I can see why some leaders prefer not to invite Stalkers just because "how you use Stalker" makes or breaks the AT IMO. (Same as Dominator. I've seen lvl 40 Dominator without ST Hold. I don't know how he level to 40..maybe power leveled through AE) -
Ever since they introduced alpha and shards, I rarely see lvl 50 Electricity controls. Mine is an Elec/Earth Dom and he is all melee (which has a big downside when my controls don't work and I have to stand too close to an AV that may kill me in one hit).
When I level him up, I've teamed with at least one other Electricity control, and I've always thought two or more patches of Static Field is pretty darn "versatile". You use it to open the battle, use it to drain end, use it to slow some and use it to stop ambushes. The problem is that it's only mag 3 and it has an accuracy check.
I don't know the makeup of LRSF heroes' mez protection. I only know Numina casts Clear Mind sometimes. I wonder if several Static Field can achieve something similar to a perma Mind sleep? If you put two of them, the game will check for sleep quite often. I can see the problem that the initial patch will aggro them.
Is Electricity Control versatile enough? It does lack hard controls in a way that it comes out a bit too slow (Synapse's confuse needs time to jump for example) and Jolting is still a soft control. -
Quote:I would nominate Bane as a pretty versatile AT to have on your team because:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
And a meta question: how many people out there explicitly build for diversity? How many are willing to sacrifice damage or other things to explicitly add something that might only be situationally useful, but you just have to have that utility (for example, no respec of this character is ever going to lack the recall-mutation combination, ever, so long as it exists).
1. With double maneuver, team defense buff is around 20%.
2. Team damage buff is 30% and Tactic for extra tohit if needed.
3. Resistance aoe debuff is 20% and ST debuff is up to 60% or rarely up to 80% if you put AH proc in Surveillance and other Rifle attacks from Soldier tree.
4. Controls: You can use a Hold, Immb and Web (-fly/-jump) if you want. Just the aoe web envelop from patron is pretty good on a team. Web Hold is on the slow side but it's available. Crowd control has cone knockdowns and Shatter has ST kd.
5. AoE damage is decent with just Venom Grenade and Crowd Control (you can get more if you feel the need)
6. Tanking is not great but survival is decent with soft-capped defense, mez protection (you will need at least one -kb).
7. You have very good burst damage so you can easily be the "stalker" of the team. You can scout easily too. No need to get Stealth from power tools.
8. You also have two decent pets in Reinforcement for being meatshields and some minor controls and damage.
To me, this is very versatile already. Very offensively versatile. You just put on the toggles and start killing. No need to put shields on teammates.
You can also make a 2nd build for Crab aoe if you want. :P -
Quote:The "blue flame" is almost instant especially if you are a squishy. And if you are melee and you don't know that pylon has "auto damage" around it, you'll die pretty soon. Yes, my Bane ran close to it the first time... those Hydras are pretty nasty too.Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
There is no instant death stuff in Apex either. I wish there was.
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Tin Mage feels more like a typical SF with hard bosses.
Apex actually makes you "think" and move a lot which is a pretty good change of pace/style. I enjoy Apex a lot but only when I play my range character. -
Quote:Originally Posted by MarvelatMee
Eric is pretty much spot on with this post. Everything stated above is almost identical to my Bane. Pound for pound my Bane can now out-damage my BS/Ele Scrapper.
My Bane makes all my Stalkers look.... rather weak. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
From reading I've gotten so far that most take double leadership toggles use gun attacks and.. are awesome.
I've got a crab spider; one of the first 50 Crabs on Justice (Go TopDoc's super team!) I respecced him awhile ago for what I thought would be an awesome hovercrab build. 7 attacks is too many. I hate hover. Basically I'm not happy with what my Soldier can do and I'd like to try either Bane or Huntsman. However I have no idea outside of Crab powers what the others are like 'on the field'.
So what were your primary goals when Making your Non crab soldiers (yes including banes) and what play style choices help you enjoy your soldiers?
Not asking for a build, just need some folks with lots of experience to chime in
Thanks!
Well, you may be taking too many attacks and not having enough buffs on you. A well-slotted Crab shouldn't feel "crabby".
Which part you are not "happy" with it? I am assuming your Single Target damage disappoints you?
Bane excels in ST damage and resistance debuffs. You can have 20% debuff from Venom, 20% from Surveillance and 20% from Shatter Armor. On my level shift Bane, the only non-Mace attack I use is Venom Grenade. I'll be stupid to skip that awesome power even if it costs weapon redraw.
All my SoA takes double Assault and double Maneuver. That's where they excel at - Team Buffs.
I think if you don't like Crab's gameplay, you probably won't like Huntsman that much. If you like close-combat, I would try Bane build.
PS: One advantage I see Huntsman over Crab is that Huntsman attacks activate a lot faster. -
Quote:I'll need to go in-game to compare the numbers but Mids is showing that Stalker's Eviscerate being a bit less than Scrapper's "cone" Eviscerate. It's just a bit annoying that they took out that precious cone for ST damage. The ST damage isn't all that good considering the animation time. I just don't see why Stalker Claw set needs that many fast recharge attacks like Swipe. Strike and Slash should be good enough already and they could have kept Spin.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Maybe it could get the Eagle's Claw treatment. The damage is actually greater than Scrapper Eviscerate, (unless CoD is out of date) but the lower base damage and Scrapper's higher chance to Crit may balance it out.
I think the devs were trying to go the same route as Eagle's Claw, but didn't take it that far.
Truthfully, a Stalker that has ANY AoE at all, particularly one with a respectable size, is a step ahead.
The worst is still MA though. I'll give my review on MA later. It starts out ok (mainly because Axe kick is strong at lvl 2) but right now at lvl 38, it is lacking. It just makes no sense that they put 6 ST attacks in a set. Yes, I know they don't want to give Stalker aoe but come on...6 ST attacks?? It just seems like poor design to me. Even if they don't want Dragon Tail, they could have added something else like a minor temp buff to something. -
Quote:I think he wants to complete his project of having one lvl 50 for each AT so...Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I vote EA brute.
SS/EA
FM/EA
DB/EA
El/EA
You get the stalker playstyle (Superior in one way with combat steatlh) and you get all the benefits of being a Brute.
I just took apart my min maxed Spines/Ninjitsu build in exchange for FM/EA and I love it.
Thinking of taking apart my Elec/Nin minmax build as well, but holding out for a new AT/Powerset combo. -
Quote:If you want a somewhat "steamroll" Stalker build, I would go with either Electricity Melee or Spines. I vote Electricity melee because your ST damage is still respectable. Spines' ST damage is just ... slow.Originally Posted by streetlight
I've been working on filling out my roster with at least one of every archetype and Stalker is the only one I've left blank. Based on everything I've seen, there's no reason to make one for teaming. Many people are stripping their Stalkers of IO sets to put them on something else, even off PVP builds.
Teams are fast now. Good teams are incredibly fast. In a game of fast gameplay, Stalkers are an entire AT that feels like the "Devices" secondary, needing time to setup in order to be at their best. You can either slow down the team to let the Stalker stalk or you can steamroll. Only a rare team will actually want to slow things down and drag out the game so that the Stalker can feel he's contributing to the best of his abilities, so you end up with Stalkers stuck in a watered-down Scrapper mode.
With that in mind, Stalkers seem to make the most sense in a solo or all-Stalker team context where everyone is on the same track. Otherwise, it's back to being a watered-down Scrapper. -
The more I think about it, the more I think Assassin Strike is the reason why Stalker feels under-performed on a larger team.
Yes, AS does BIG damage but at the cost of several conditions:
1. Loss of important pbaoe like Spin, Whirling Sword. etc. The only set that doesn't suffer this is Electricity Melee because only Hand Clap is taken out. Oh and Quill doesn't work well on Stalker.
2. 4s set up time and sometimes when there is lag or when you stand up on a hill, you may get interrupted. I know I've clicked twice and lost like 15 end x 2. (endurance cost needs to be adjusted IMO) 4s set up time also means that if you miss your first AS, you lose a lot of damage potential during Build Up. I also think AS should be auto-hit in PvE.
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Now the argument is that "nobody told you that you must use Assassin Strike!". This argument would only work if Assassin Strike isn't part of the Primary power and that Stalker didn't lose aoe attack for it. Sure, I sometimes don't use Assassin Strike at all when I am on a large team but this just means I am not using an AT-defining power that forces this AT to have less aoe and less survival. With the way Assassin Strike is now, the game is just a bit too fast pace for it. I do feel Assassin Strike feels great at low level when others can't do what Stalker can and that's about it. AS doesn't scale well with difficulty.
I am currently on the "hate" relationship with stalker even though I just made a new MA/Will and he just hit lvl 37. :P -
Quote:I have this Love and Hate relationship with Stalker. I started the thread because I did think Stalker (with full team critical buffs) can contribute more in a tough fight but my opinion keeps changing. I was also curious to see if the opinion of Stalker has changed after so many changes.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
That argument always ignores that the Stalker does greater burst damage. It is always a comparison between sustained damage between the two ATs, and survivability.
There is also the tendency to underestimate the survivability of the Stalker. For the purposes of the argument, it always seems to be assumed that the Stalker is as fragile as, say, a Blaster.
Adding the two together, it has never seemed to me that "the Stalker is a little worse". My perception is and has always been that "the Stalker always defeats foes a little faster at first, and then over time the Scrapper catches up." The lower hit points balance out because, as Dechs said, defeated enemies don't do much by way of damage.
The only thing I can say for sure is that Stalker has a bit better ST Burst damage over Scrapper and that is it. I teamed with a level shift Fire/Fire Scrapper last night during Lady Grey and his burst damage seems very high while doing much better aoe damage than my level shiftKin/Dark (I only have Burst and it's kinda slow). Fire usually does more damage because its secondary effect is more damage but the point is that Stalker isn't always doing better "burst" damage.
In fact, I've also seen Elec/Shield Scrapper farming. There is no way Stalker can match that burst damage even with Spines. So does Stalker always have better burst damage? I don't think so.
I've been playing Stalkers for quite a while. So far I have:
50 Db/Nin
50 Spine/EA
50 Kin/Dark
50 Claw/Will
41 Spine/Nin
42 Nin/SR
37 Elec/Will
36 MA/Will
32 Broad/Elec
36 DM/Will
I don't just play one or two Stalkers and say they "need more help". In fact, I've been playing with some old veterans on Freedom server after I came back the 3rd time and they all hate Stalkers. They don't just think Stalker is 'alright'. They literally hate stalkers. It's basically one-trick-pony, weak and un-fun. I am the "lol" of them because I keep making new stalkers.
I usually have no problem on a team because my friends won't kick me just because I am stalker but I do know other stalker players feel they are not wanted. I invited a Stalker to my team several weeks ago in St. Martial and he said his stalker hasn't got invite for 2 weeks. (By the way, the only AT they hate more than Stalker is Peacebringer. lol) -
Quote:I have yet to read any Black Scorpion's opinions on Stalkers..or any AT for that matter. In fact, maybe Castle had too much stress from saying what's on his mind on this board. lol I miss his posts... even when I don't agree, I kind to know what's on dev's mind. Castle thinks Stalker is "ok".Originally Posted by Terror1
But the AT was considered balanced according to Castle and Black Scorpion seems to be of the same opinion.
Actually i pulled tthat one out of my *** i have no idea what Black Scorpion thinks. Mostly since he doesn't really interact and it's hard to see where he stands.
Ok means so many things. Stalker has no problem soloing. Stalker probably does ok on a small team. Stalker's design is just not very large-team friendly because ST burst damage is over-rated and setup time is too long (for my liking anyway). -
Quote:I echo that Electricity is great on stalker as well. The only power that's missing is hand clap which very few people use anyway.Originally Posted by BadBad_Girl
no love for elec/wp even with SOs it is quite fun and survivable. Remember LR does not take you out of hide. Sure it aggros but you can follow up with TS and get the crits.
WP is the jack of all trades, Decent resist,defense and regen -
Quote:It used to have two aoe...one in Eviscerate. They made it single target but the funny thing is even as a ST attack, it does less damage than Scrapper's "cone" Eviscerate. Now that's just pathetic.Originally Posted by BrandX
Is Claws a good AOE Primary, when it has 1 AOE, and that's a ranged cone?
I don't mind the change but Eviscerate needs to do a bit more as ST attack because you take "precious" cone attack away.
Claw's aoe is ok. It's a good battle opener wit BU + Shockwave. The aoe knockback is pretty messy sometimes.