Jibikao
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Posts
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I've posted in controller forum that I think the Gravity change should be different for Dominator.
For Controller, the set was designed to have two more regular attacks than other control sets so the new change will make Lift and Propel do a lot more dps than before. Propel change is huge for controller before epic blasts come into the picture.
For Dominator, this change will only increase Lift's "Impact" damage. We don't know how much Impact damage is going to be but Propel is still not good enough unless you are /Earth. Those that took Propel for "theme" reason got a big buff but overall, the new changes don't benefit Dominator as much.
I was really hoping they can increase Wormhole's radius to 20'. If they can do that, then I'll forgive Dimension Shift. Each AT has different needs so they should buff different things IMO. -
In all seriousness, I've never liked Poison Gas Arrow. I never thought that "Poison" is equal to "Sleep" effect. My only experience of TA is on a Mastermind and the debuff values are so low. The 15% damage debuff is almost non-existent after you factor in level differences.
My ideal Trick Arrow is actually a more "damaging" secondary. Afterall, you are using arrows to attack.
This is not going to happen but I would:
Get rid of Sleep in Poison Gas Arrow. Add tier 1 Toxic damage and debuffs damage.
Then for Acid Arrow, I will add 40% resistance debuff on Toxic just like Venom Grenade. This means you can debuff with Acid Arrow first and then get a better damage Poison Gas.
Disruption Arrow will have a chance to "stun" or "hold" just like the Sonic grenades from Longbow. The chance can be small but Trick Arrow needs more "hard" controls.
I may reduce Oil Slick recharge down to 150s.
Basically, the gist is that Trick Arrow will never be a "safe" set. It's not going to provide healing because if I want healing and more defensive set, I won't even pick Trick Arrow. The problem I have with Trick Arrow is that the debuffs take time to stack and some of the Arrows should do more damage. Instead of making Trick Arrow more closer to Dark Miasma, I want my Arrows (Acid and Poison Arrow or even Ice Arrow) to deal more damage because this way I can debuff while doing decent damage. That will be Trick Arrow's strength. And for a Archery/TA user, you'll have more ways to deal mobs that have heavy lethal resistant. You can slot Acid/Poison/Ice for +damage too.
Some numbers I would suggestion for Corruptor's versoin at lvl 50:
Poison Gas Arrow does 41.7 Toxic DoT Damage in 4s.
Acid Arrow does 35.03 Toxic DoT Damage in 4s.
Ice Arrow does 35.03 Ice DoT damage in 4s.
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Get rid of weapon redraw and I'll play the set. Biggest buff ever!
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Quote:I am going to say something that is going to be hated here.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
There is another thread going on right now about the Dev team possibly looking into Tanker issues, and possibly doing some improvements/changes to them. While we have no timeline for this right now, the other thread got a little out of control and vastly off-focus. As such, it was pointed out to me that having a single place to put suggestion feedback for Tankers would be a good idea, much as some other ATs have a consolidated thread that is stickied.
I am going to try very hard to stay impartial in this thread, and put ideas in the correct posts regardless of whether I think they are needed or have merit. However, as this may be a stickied thread, I would ask that you not post ideas in here that YOU don’t think have merit. I will not add any items that are obviously jokes into the consolidated ideas posts, and may reach out to you through PMs if I can’t tell. Also please keep in mind that there is no imperative on the Dev’s part to implement any of the changes brought up in this post. If we can follow those rules, I will try to keep the front posts as up to date as I can.
I also don’t want this thread to turn into an argument thread. While I certainly expect some discussion to happen in this thread, if an argument about a certain topic is springing up, please take it to a new thread, and post the results of that discussion here. I just want to keep the signal to noise ratio high here if at all possible.
That being said, I am going to be putting up four posts below to highlight various issues that people feel Tankers have. I have separated out current ideas for Tankers that I have seen recently into four categories: Defensive, Offensive, Crowd Control, and Inherent Changes. I feel that those four categories should include most, if not all, of what I have seen on the Tanker boards recently. In each post, I will try to include the basics of arguments for the area needing to be changed, along with ideas that have been posted to help fix it.
I don't play Tanker but I regularly team with a SG mate that loves making Tankers and Brutes. From my gaming experience, Tankers survive much better than Brutes and that serves a purpose. Brute has great potential but Brute needs more babysitting.
I am really not sure which area they can improve that doesn't involve in "buffing Tanker's damage". If they want to buff Tanker's damage, then they should lower Brute's damage because ultimately, the only reason Tanker (and my favorite Stalker) feels "less-needed" is that Brute and maybe Scrappers are doing better damage while surviving relatively well.
Not sure how many of you have played Lord of the Ring online but many games have "healing aggro". I can literally kill myself if I keep healing with my Bard. If the tanker doesn't actually use tanking abilities, I can draw all the aggro to myself with just healing.
This game, as far as I can tell, does not have healing aggro. The mobs may be assigned to attack "lowest health" first but if there is a tanker tanking, most aggro do not come to me.
I mean what else can they do? If a Tanker is complaining about doing less damage, then that's the wrong direction to begin with.
If a tanker is complaining he can't tank, then it seems to have more to do with how he builds his defense/resistance and what type of secondary against certain damage type (Invul against Psionic for example is one that will always put Invul at disadvantage).
If a tanker is complaining that he can't take all 8 Heroes in LRSF, then that's not really fair because that situation is designed for 8-players co-operating, not soloing.
I really don't think Tankers need more love. I think Bruising effect is an excellent idea. If Tanker feels like they have no role, then so is Stalker/Blaster whose damage can be easily replaced by SoA and Scrapper/Brute/Dominator.
I actually do think Tankers have a role in this game. With just one button Taunt, you can taunt a lot of foes to you. Can you taunt ALL OF THEM? Nope and I believe that's not the intention either. At some point the game needs to be challenging enough. You can't have people spamming healing without aggro or without worrying about aggro. Just like if a Blaster chooses to blast mobs that are further away from Tanker, then he needs to be responsible for that aggro as well. It's all part of learning how to play.
The only complaint I can see is how Tanker is growing slowly just like Dominator may need lvl 38 blast to feel "complete". In high-end situation, I think Tanker survives well enough with decent damage. If they feel Brute and Scrapper are doing more, then they need to look at those two.
They can, however, look at individual sets and balance them accordingly. I still feel Super Reflex needs more love. -
Quote:I rarely pvp in this game but what is so great about DS in pvp? You cage them and run away? Or you cage some and take out the loner?Originally Posted by JayboH
Dimension Shift will stay as it is for a reason, and the reason Arbiter Hawk gave is that it is great in PVP.
Let's assume that DS is great in pvp, can they at least swap the position with Wormhole? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
They do not include the impact damage, since as far as I know nobody outside the dev team knows how much damage that'll be. This is why there's still some caveat about lift and propel's mediocrity, since we don't know yet how much bonus damage they'll get. My personal guess is that it would be either a flat bonus amount that'd be equal between the two, or a flat bonus *percentage* that would be equal between the two. Lift currently has better DPA than propel, so an equal bonus percentage (which I personally think more likely) would still leave it better.
Looking at that list, by 'good' I was mostly meaning DPA above 70, which might not *really* be good by some standards, but seems to me a nice dividing line between the more 'meh' attacks and the above average ones. A bonus of +50% impact damage on propel would give it a DPA of 69.2, and a bonus of +20% impact damage on lift would give it a DPA of 70.4, so those are the thresholds. If I had to guess, I'd think a full +50% damage might be unlikely, but something between that and 20% definitely could be done, so I wouldn't be surprised to see lift joining the ranks of 'good'-ish attacks. It'll take a lot to put propel there, though, and they're still not going to compete with the likes of blaze (of course, what would?).
Problem is that the impact effect is supposed to be tied to the -KB, both thematically and gameplay wise. Thematically, both propel and lift do extra damage because they normally would be expending some of their oomph throwing the target off its feet, which they can't do when gravity distortion is nailing them to the floor. There was a quote in the chat summary thread which I thought summed this up nicely:
And mechanically, it's supposed to compensate for the loss of the soft control provided by the knock effects when you have the target held.
Neither one really applies to wormhole, since it doesn't do -KB. In fact, it knocks things back itself. It would be nice, I admit, but ultimately pretty minor - if they changed wormhole, I'd rather they make it better at *control*.
Yeah with Impact damage, these changes will make Gravity Controller a whole lot better in ST damage department (before Epic blasts I suppose).
I wish they could make two separate improvements. One for Controller (the current change) and a different one for Dominator. I really don't think Dom needs more damage from Gravity as dom already has Assault secondary.
I know it's the same Gravity set but different ATs have different needs. If they want to spend the time to balance the set, they should try to cater Dominator's needs too. -
Well, in recent coffee talk, Synapse said that if there's going to be Whip Set, it will be more fitting for Dominator than for melee ATs.
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Quote:I am just surprised that they are surprised. They made a whole new set and excludes one of the four melee ATs on purpose and they are surprised that Stalker fans are pissed? And the only explanation they had at that time is due to "theme restriction"?Originally Posted by BrandX
I think they were suprised by it more due to people's opinion that Titan Weapons doesn't fit the "theme/concept" of Stalkers.
But I guess they never thought someone's stalker became invisible through the use of alien tech, that allows them to stay hidden even with a raidroad sign, or a large axe or a HUGE FRIKKIN SWORD!
Really, I have no idea what they were thinking!
If most of their income is coming from Paragon store, they should not care what theme matters. Let the players buy and decide what theme fits. :P I certainly will buy the set just because I like trying something new and the mechanism sounds quite fitting (heavy hit and then faster hits and the set is aoe-heavy!!!). -
Quote:They were SURPRISED??? LOL I am sorry that there are people like me who mostly only play Stalker for melee gameplay.Originally Posted by Person34
"They're looking into porting Titan Weapons to stalkers down the line, as it would need new animations. They were surprised by the disappointment regarding it not being on stalkers."
So does it mean if we don't make a noise about it, they can just forget about Stalkers... as usual?
Stalker is such a step-child. -
Quote:Very good numbers! I like.Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Propel and lift will be better than a couple of stinker attacks like hurl boulder and thorny darts. They'll be competitive with most of the generic 4s and 8s blasts. They're still on par, at best, with most of the other attacks, and worse than the 'good' ones. They'll have to do something like 50% (for propel) or 20% (for lift) extra damage on the gravity distortion'd targets to really become 'good' attacks.
I could see some doms using lift as a replacement for a weak blast from their secondary since they have to take either it or crush anyway, especially if it gets a reasonable amount of bonus damage. Propel is still pretty bleh. And doms are still, overall, *not* in need of extra ST damage from their primary. Wormhole is still very much in need of some sort of tweak.
By the way, do your new Lift and Propel include the Impact damage? Do we know how much bonus damage?
You are right that most Dominators won't take it. Lift will be a buff since doms are using Hold anyway so the bonus Impact damage will help. Propel is still mostly for "theme" except for Gravity/Earth combo where Propel and Lift are the better range attacks (better than Hurl and Stone Spear!).
This buff makes ST damage on Controller a whole lot better.
And you are right that Lift can replace tier 1 4s attack. My perma Gravity/Fiery is all range and my attack chain is Lift, Fire Blast and Blaze. It's awesome, fast attacking!!! I love knock up so much.
(I suggested to add Impact in Wormhole so when the foes are teleported and stunned, you don't need to use ST Hold again to get the impact damage) -
I did make a suggestion to add Impact in Wormhole because domination + wormhole will make sure things get stunned for a while. There is really no reason to use Hold to get Impact and then use Lift/Propel. If Wormhole can grant impact, then we can at least save one less Hold.
And since Impact is only triggered by Lift and Propel, it won't be overpowered if more foes are suffering Impact. It just makes other Gravity friends do impact damage more easier. -
Quote:I'll need to check in-game DPA but it is still not that high. I guess if you are a /Earth Assault, Propel will be a decent range attack. lolOriginally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Someone who is good at calculating DPA, does this mean the Propel for Dominators is now basically around the power of Psi Assault's Telekinetic Thrust? Here are the estimated values for each power:
Propel: Recharge: 8, Cast Time: 2.06, Damage: ~103.5
TK Thrust: Recharge: 8, Cast Time: 2.06, Damage: ~95
If so, how well regarded is TK Thrust? It certainly sounds like an uptweak for Controllers, unsure how much Dominators benefit. -
Quote:Changing the position is nice for sure but it only shortens the pain. :P If they can increase to 20' radius, then I can forgive Dimenion Shift appearing earlier than WH.Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Not unless they switch Wormhole and Dimension Shift so you don't need to limp to to 26+ and Wormhole.
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Just heads up, in the most recent coffee-talk Hawk mentioned something about Energy Melee.
Hawk: "We are looking at it. It's too early to talk about details. Somewhere down the line we'll come up with something cool to do it." -
I have one suggestion.
Can we please add "Impact" in Wormhole? The only reason is that after you used Wormhole, it is really unnecessary to use a hold again because they are already stunned. It will be odd to use Hold just to get that extra damage.
And one wishful thinking, can we increase Wormhole's radius to 20'?
I think I am giving up on Dimension Shift. There's always one power that needs to be skipped to make other powers look better so this is the stepchild. If Wormhole has 20' radius, then the set is as good as it gets for Dominator IMO. -
Well, any buff is a buff.
This buff seems to benefit Controller way more than Dominator. Even with 2s propel, it is still not worth it to use. I guess it really depends on the bonus damage from Impact.
The set's biggest complaint is still Dimension Shift. If they can't do anything about it, they should at least swap position with Wormhole.
I find Gravity pretty unique already and my Gravity/Fire is my only perma-dom. I may make a Gravity controller now... -
First of all, I am surprised they did anything with Gravity Control. Good job!
Second of all, the new Gravity change doesn't really affect Dominator because no Dominator is going to use Propel even at 2 something casting time.
Third, I still hate Dimension Shift. That is one power that is most hated in the set. They should at least swap position. Let Wormhole come earlier!
So it's very nice they did something for Controller's Gravity but the most complaint powers are still untouched.
Oh and it's nice that they are going to look at Energy Melee. Stalker Energy Melee sucks hard with no aoe and partially critical damage on TF. -
Holy s!@#$. They actually did something for Gravity?
I still hate Dimension Shift with a passion and the improvement on Propel will help Controller more so than on Dominator but Lift gets a bonus damage too so it's not too bad. -
Quote:Some said it's been fixed but I still see some stealth after I de-toggled my Hover. It really doesn't bother me because Hover fits all-range toon so well that there's really no reason to de-toggle except for saving endurance.Originally Posted by MriBruce
A question about the Stealth procs: do I have to toggle a power off and back on every two minutes to get the benefits? Or does it renew or last or anything like that?
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The old Storm Kick should be Tier 9 attack. That looks wicked!
The old Crane Kick looks kinda stupid. Why raising the hand and said "Look, I am ready to kick"! -
Quote:That's the problem. I DO want to buy it but I only play Stalkers. :P I hate Brutes because it seems everything is cartered to their needs. Whenever a new set is ported to them, it gets immediate attention. Look at how many times they changed Energy Aura just because it didn't fit Mr. Popular Brute's style. I can name 10 things that they should change for Stalker's needs too but they are rarely looked at.Originally Posted by MikeRobe
Whatever. I'm just voicing my opinion. You don't have to buy it
And I can't stand Heroes. Scrapper is too common and I hate tanking.
I just want to whack people with a giant roadsign from hidden. -
I have go to against people saying /Device is a great range specialist. Why?
Two powers require pbaoe range or setup before the fight starts.
Taser only has 20' range. And what's more importantly you don't get Build Up. If you are not using melee attacks to increase your dps output, then losing Build Up will hurt even more. /Device, however has a great tool in caltrops to keep foes away from you but that also draws more aggro to yourself.
You really only need one +stealth in Hover and your Blaster will be stealthy enough. -
Quote:Well, Fortunata is great choice because she already has access to stealth and she is so durable at range. The damage output is less than Blaster of course.Originally Posted by MriBruce
There's a part of my brain that has this real fascination with stealthing. I prefer ranged to melee action, so stalkers are low on my priority list. But I'm intermittently tallying my other options, and would appreciate y'all pointing out all the ones I'm missing.
- Illusion controllers. I'm given to understand superior invisibility is about the best in breed, too. I just have trouble finding a secondary I'm really happy with.
- Fortunatas.
- Devices blasters. I seem to recall reading that the cloaking device is neither all that nor a bag of chips when it comes to stealth, but I can't seem to find that info now. (I freely admit to not really understanding what this feet thing is in stealth ratings.)
- Dark miasma whatevers. See above about stealth ratings, though.
- Anything with stealth IOs, of course.
What am I missing in the way of power sets? And how do they compare in terms of just how stealthy they are
I am leveling a Dark/Mental Blaster right now and I put a +stealth in her Hover. So far it's working WONDERFUL. I have awesome range damage with knock backs, hold, immb and tohit debuff. I highly recommend Dark/Mental or Dark/Energy. If you only want to stay at range then Dark/Energy is a no brainer since Power Boost improves your tohit debuff value and healing in Life Drain and you have boost range.
Bane is a terrible range fighter. He excels at melee. He only uses range to finish off. Bane doesn't get any critical from hidden with any of his range attacks so there's very little reason to start the fight with range.
Another excellent choice is Soldier/Bane build. You mostly only use Single Shot (0.9s!!), Burst (1s) and whole bunch of aoe attacks. This build has excellent resistance debuffs and damage and team buffs. I would say a Soldier/Bane is a premier Range Damage specialist especially on a large team. He carries double Assault and he debuffs with Venom Grenade and Surveillance. Bane has stealth and mez protection and better defense/resistance than Blaster. Oh and Bane has the best stealth only behind Stalker? I know Bane's stealth is better than Widow's.
As for Corr/Defender, it really depends on what secondary you use but they can be a lot more squishy and takes more time to "set up". -
Quote:Explain what exactly is a Stalker set? Using sword? Being hidden?Originally Posted by Starflier
Yeah, Titan Weapons is great so far. It absolutely wrecks face.
But it may be the most un-Stalkery feeling set I've played.
If TW ever got ported, the set would have Assassin Strike and Placate as well which I guess by your definition will be "stalkerish"?
Oh wait, how "Brutish" it is to have Kanata Ninja sword on Brute and have stealth in dark armor?
You can't have it both ways. If you want to enforce theme restriction, then you gotta restrict other melee ATs too. Restrictions should not just be enforced on one AT.
The only difference is that Brute players have a chance to choose Ninja Blade and Stalker players don't even have that chance. Titan Weapon doesn't fit your theme on your stalker? Then don't pick it. Nobody is forcing you but don't deny me the chance to play Titan Weapon on my stalker. I have a perfect theme for him! Let players choose what themes they want. We don't need the dev to choose for us. -
Oh yeah! I can't wait to play it....
Oh wait. I only play Stalkers... never mind. !@#$