Jibikao

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On a big team, I am soooooooooo squishy. It's not even funny. I tried to wormhole for the team (I WANT to show off sometimes you know) and BANG, all the foes hit me. There is a split second of delay before I can teleport them into the hole and everybody targets me. I died in like 1s.

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Easy fix: add range enhmts and wormhole out of line of sight.

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Yup, if the dev can see this, please fix it.

Every time I use wormhole, I get attacked. It's so dangerous on a big team. Only the "miss" ones can attack me, which makes sense.

Is there a fix list that I can post besides here?

Wormhole should teleport the foes safely before getting attacked, unless I already aggro the critters first.

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The Brutes on my party this morning were bragging how easy RSF mish is.... and they were the first ones that REQUESTED for a Corruptor to heal/buff them. They actually ask the leader (who is a Stalker) to find a Corruptor. The first time we tried the mish on relentless, we got owned by those Wailers. I had a feeling they didn't want me... lol

Then they added two Thug MMs and a Corruptor with Warm. The mish becomes instant easier. The MMs were using tar patch, fearsome stare. I don't think they really miss my holds... and my damage was barely noticeable in comparison to Brute/Stalker's AS. Those Energy Brute can stun too and one of the Brutes is a Dark/Dark with fear aura. God, I so wanted to quit my Dom. I could hold the boss which they could kill in like 10s.

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You've put your finger right on the problem. Dominators are supposed to be the "controlling" AT in CoV but by the late game control is either unneeded, unachievable or both. Brutes have massive damage and excellent survivability. Add Taunt or a damage aura and most can manage mob control on their own. Add Corrupters with powerful buffs and debuffs to support the Brutes and you're set. Add an MM for insurance and you've added more control, more damage and more debuffs in one package.

Factor in that the late game features a long series of EBs and/or AVs who mostly can't be held (only debuffed).

So why, with all this control, survivability and firepower, would you want to include a high-maintenance squishy with crappy damage that you don't need, crappy low-mag short-duration holds that don't work on any opponent dangerous enough to the Brutes to be bothered holding, and who needs to be healed and babysat constantly to keep alive?

Answer: You don't.

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You pretty much nail the problem.

I find myself more and more useless as I level up. When I first team up with my friend (Necro MM) at lvl 18ish, he didn't have Lich and he has very limited control ability. Then he got Fearsome Stare, Howing Twlight for controls and then he has access to Lich who is another dominator. And he added Ghost which can hold single target sometimes. I was like... do you even need my help?? I mean really. His damage potential is like 2x more than me. When Grave Knights charge in, my Ice Sword looks like Ice Toothpick.

Some of you claimed that some of us have lower level Dominators so we didn't know how well Dominators can do. Ok, so I've been leveling quite hard to get my Dominator to lvl 33 in about 2.5 weeks and my impression has only gone worse....

1.) At lower levels, Dominator is really the only AT that can hold efficiently. I felt GOOD 'cause people notice my strength.

2.) At mid-level, my damage struggles and my solo ability is less and less until Singy came to the picture. I don't like big teams so in a small team, I still feel very efficient and satisfying.

3.) At lvl 33, when most ATs have access to their powerful controls, I feel I am so replaceable. On a small team, my strength is still noticeable but on an 8-ppl team, I feel they won't even miss me if I am gone. agrrrr.

I can't even picture once I turn lvl 40. Do things get better or worse? You tell me. Judging from what other ATs can do, I don't have much hope for Dom to stand out.

Solo ability is not my problem. I can solo just fine but so are the other ATs. You can't tell me a MM, Brute, Stalker or even Corruptor can't solo well. Cor may be tricky but in general, what my Dom can do is so replaceable especially on a big team.

On a big team, I am soooooooooo squishy. It's not even funny. I tried to wormhole for the team (I WANT to show off sometimes you know) and BANG, all the foes hit me. There is a split second of delay before I can teleport them into the hole and everybody targets me. I died in like 1s. (the critters were all Purple to me) Ok, so I did not use Wormhole (another thing is they want to rely on Tar Patch agrrrr).. I use single Hold and some Lift. Well, most critters are already in "fear" or "stunned" by energy brute. And even if they are not "controlled", there is really nothing those Brutes can't tank with a Corruptor on their back. Why do they need me for?? Oh yeah, to keep the Corruptor busy healing me?!

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The corruptor forums have no talk about being underpowered. It's the opposite, there is people in those forums that are posting videos saying that corruptors are probably overpowered for certain things...lol.

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The Brutes on my party this morning were bragging how easy RSF mish is.... and they were the first ones that REQUESTED for a Corruptor to heal/buff them. They actually ask the leader (who is a Stalker) to find a Corruptor. The first time we tried the mish on relentless, we got owned by those Wailers. I had a feeling they didn't want me... lol

Then they added two Thug MMs and a Corruptor with Warm. The mish becomes instant easier. The MMs were using tar patch, fearsome stare. I don't think they really miss my holds... and my damage was barely noticeable in comparison to Brute/Stalker's AS. Those Energy Brute can stun too and one of the Brutes is a Dark/Dark with fear aura. God, I so wanted to quit my Dom. I could hold the boss which they could kill in like 10s.

I sometimes wonder if the dev are tired of reading this sort of "Dom needs improvement/fix" threads. It always ends up flame-wars and Dominator and Stalker seem to have the most of this kind of threads... gee, I wonder why.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, there is an obvious problem with these two ATs?? I used to play MMs and I rarely read threads that keep talking about how MMs can be improved... until I came here.

I don't think Dom sucks 'cause this game isn't that hard (besides the elite boss, AV fights, SF) with ANY AT especially if you only set it Villianous. I don't feel I am sucky but I do feel underperformed when I compare myself to other ATs (besides Stalker). This is where the frustration comes from. I feel Corruptors/MMs should never have any hold powers. There is almost no "uniqueness" in Dominator...

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58 pages in a short time and still growing strong.
I think that, in spite of what the "doms are just fine group" say, this alone is evidence that many people agree that doms need some "dev love".
Plus we are seeing many people who have played doms to high levels and played multiple doms who agree that doms need something.
Does that mean doms "suck"? Maybe suck is to strong of a word, but yes it does mean that doms need looking at.
However, grav doms suck by definition (pun ).

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Actually, what 58 pages mean is its controversial. If everyone agreed (either way), it wouldnt go 5 pages typically.

I find my ice/nrg dom and fire/fire dom do adequate damage for the ability to halt all incoming attacks. I see the following issues:

1) Control has been nuked in some arenas - BFs in PVP and triangles in AVs, where control is no longer allowed, we need some help/buffing. More damage would help some, but I think it wont be enough, its really more a case of a control AT not being allowed to control.

2) Some AOE effects need to be evaluated, from a dom POV for recharge/duration. AOE holds recharge much too slowly for their duration for a dom. Further, some primaries have to rely on soft controls that use sleep, which is extremely weak compared to stun/disorients. Its a shame many doms skip the AOE holds because of their overall lack of usefulness. This is a large part of people preferring fearsome stare (corruptor power) to flash freeze (or glacier, as it not available to be used).

3) Control powers that come close to dom's holds in effectiveness need to be reined in. Melee stuns, disorients, knockback can be used as effectively or more effectively than most of our controls, with the AT that uses that power having more health, more damage, better defence and resistance. Other ATs dont see the value in control, as they essentially have the control themselves. One example is nrg melee, another is ice/dark corruptors (with PPP 4 holds? Doms have maybe 2?).

A little extra damage wouldnt hurt, but I dont see it fixing any of the complaints about doms. I think the root problems are above.

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Yup, I see your #3 as one of the bigger problems. Yes, Doms DO NOT suck but you can easily replace them with... say a Corruptor??! Hell, a /dark MM can do all the things I can most of the time. They can't do as efficient as I do but for most of the fights/mish, their controlling powers are good enough.

The irony is when the team needs the best control on the most dangerous situation (against AV bosses), we struggle.

I have given a lot of examples already. /dark and cold corruptor can control quite well. Just like last night I team up with lvl 33 Necro MM and lvl 33 Ninja MM. I feel I was sooooooo excluded. I feel they really don't need me. lol Necro MM has Lich who does most of the Dominator's job and then the Master himself has tar patch, fearsome stare..blah blah blah. The Ninja has Oni who uses Char, caltrops for good soft controls and even the master himself was using traps. And I can't outdamage the pets.... there is no way.

I know they don't have good recharge time but in most cases, you do not need to "over control", that's what Doms "seem" to do.

I think it depends on which Brute you are talking about... I have yet to see a dark melee Brute out damage me. Sure, they may do a bit more damage when their Fury is up but my ice attacks are why faster than him and when my Domination is up, there is no comparison.

On the other hand, Super Strength Brute with Rage... there is no comparison. ugh

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Did they say mez protection is the only new thing added?

[/ QUOTE ] No, in fact he implied that it wouldn't be, so I'm not too worried at this point.

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That's nice then 'cause we may just see more buffs during Domination form!

Do you guys think if the new "improved" Domination gives Dom more defense/hp and accuracy would be too powerful?

I do agree with Pilcrow somewhat. When my Domination is on in a big team, I can still do the same job. I hold longer but I can equally spend more time to hold when I am not in Domination.

If Domination gives Dom better defense/accuracy, Doms can really go nuts and provide a lot more damage for the team (especially if we cannot hold through Purple Triangles). The only trouble is it may make Dom too powerful in PvP? We shall see....

Did they say mez protection is the only new thing added?

One thing, I've been thinking about is the ability to store 2 Dominations. It may have been discussed before but that could be a great solution to Domination form not being "up" more often than we want to. Many times I choose to save it up 'cause I don't know when the mish is going to end and whether or not, there are boss or bosses/ ambushes. I just want to wait until the last moment to enjoy Domination.

If I know I have saved up two Dominations, I think I'll enjoy it a lot more often. I know that I always have a back up Domination if things get nasty.

Would this be too powerful? I think it's worth testing. One thing I do know is we need to "click" the power to activate so it might not be that hard to put 2 Domination system in it. Two buttons, easy enough!

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All CoV ATs are very dependent on their special ability. Brutes and Stalkers would be helpless/pointless without theirs, masterminds have theirs heavily integrated with their primary (basically, the pet control window is a part of their special ability). Corruptors escape this with a special ability that does pretty little - but have versatility in their powers instead.

I dislike this dependency on special ability. It makes all villains of one AT more or less the same - in particular the difference between any two Brutes or Stalkers is too small.

Therefore I wish LESS emphasis placed on Domination, and I want dominators to function better normally and less well on Domination. There are already overdrive powers in this game - Hasten being the easiest to access. Some people like such powers, other's don't. Forcing them down our throats is a bad idea and will make Dominators less appealing.

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Unfortunately I think it's pretty clear the path the dev wants to take is CLOSER to Domination than away from it. The new buff on mez protection during Domination form suggests that Dominator's "primary goal" is to become the True Dominator. That's how they can distinguish the different playing style between Dominator and Controller. I have not played Troller so I can't say for sure but if the dev wants everything to revolve around "Domination", then those of us who choose to play Dominator should try to achieve that goal. If not, maybe Controller is a better choice of AT for you? That's what I am trying to tell myself now.

I have to enjoy being in the Domination form. I feel the NEED to be in Domination form. Without it, Dominator is inferior... I, too, thought that more improvement in the non-Domination form is better for the overall gaming experience but I don't think that's the path the dev wants to take, and I don't think we can change their opinions on this. They want a "different" AT.

Having said that, I do feel melee attacks and AoE attack should gain us more Domination points = more risk involved. I find myself using range attacks way more often in groups because I can't afford to take the aggro and I spend more time controling. If melee attacks and aoe attacks give me a lot more Domination gain, I may just risk it and go inside!

Well, just a little success story.

I am lvl 31 now Gravity/Ice (4 bars before 32!!!) and I teamed up with two other lvl 32 MMs, Robot and Necro. They are husband and wife.

Anyway, we were in Nerva doing some newspaper mish and the wife (Necro MM) said when I join them (we play pretty regularly now), the fight becomes a lot more "smoother". Then we were fighting some bosses and the husband (the Robot MM who doesn't give much compliments) said "Wow, you are a good dominator!" hehe

Now I feel sooooooooo good. I tried my best to play a good Dominator. I saved my special Domination just for that boss. I held him for the entire fight while wormholing foes around him (I have Hasten now)... and I even used Dimenion Shift to save MMs when we got ambused right at the entrance. They said that was a "smart move". lol

Dominator ain't bad... just needs more work and some twist. The new improvement on mez protection is really good. I don't know how many time I get knocked back/down trying to get close to fight.. ugh.

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Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I will have to find a way to include hasten for all my doms now...

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OH yeah, good suggestion!

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There is NOTHING worse than popping domination then getting held/slept et cetera for my dom- as such

<performs the Happy Dance>

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Yup, this is usually how I die at the boss fight. Those energy melee bosses.. ugh. Stun me, 3-4 hits and I am done. If I am lucky, I have one break free to help myself run away.

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Ok after I've calmed myself down a bit, I'm wondering...
Mez resistance or mez protection?

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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.

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Zomg LOLOL.

Wow devs! This is much more than I expected. LOL I'll be able to walk through Force Bubble and Telekinesis. Plus Confuse and Fear protection? That's better than what most melees get.

Awesome job so far! I'm very pleased. Thanks devs.

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Yup... but the trick is to get into Domination form first! So everything is revolving around Domination now rather than relying less on it like many of us suggested.

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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?

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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.

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Wow, this is even better! So we can use Domination to get ourselves out of "held" and basically become the "super-man" version of Dominator?

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Ok after I've calmed myself down a bit, I'm wondering...
Mez resistance or mez protection?

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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.

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NOW WE ARE TALKING!!! YEAH BABY.

Thanks for the clarification. Now I want to be in Domination form!

This is great 'cause I always save my Domination for bosses and if I have good mez protection, I can at least survive better since I have Aid Self to prolong the fights. Good job!

I was testing my domination gain per hit.

Do I only get 1 point when I use attack powers?

I think I get 2 points when I use my single hold but every other power gives me 1pt. At first I thought the difference is in primary and secondary set but that's not true. All attack powers (including Lift and Propel) give +1 per use. Which other skills give +2?

Can somebody tell me the exact formula? 1pt per attack (hit or miss) doesn't seem fast at all. If they calculate Domination gain based on attacks, then those AoE should gain more domination because they draw more "danger". That's a good trade off to become a real Dominator.

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I can see how melee is useful when soloing the standard 3-4 mob format...but when in a team situation it has no effective use...and it leads me to believe that this AT wasn't designed with too much thought.

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I agree somewhat. I have Ice Sword Circle and I don't dare using it in big groups 'cause I can't stand the aggro and I don't like relying on other players to heal me.

I tend to stay back and spaming ice attacks. The only time I would go at up front is if all the foes are controlled somehow.

The end cost on ISC is ridiculously HIGH. 18 end?? Are you kidding me?! Frost Breath isn't any better.... but ISC's cost is way too high.

Somebody told me in the game that the dev wants to put "Purple Triangle" on regular bosses and elite bosses as well. Has this been discussed?

I was on a team fighting against an Arch Villain and we had 3 Dominators and we did not even hold him once. lol One of the Doms died... 'cause he had no defense when he couldn't control.

Anyway, if they want to increase more Purple Triangles in the game, then they definitely need to balance Doms somehow.

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The bottom line is that Dom's still need help. No one can agree on what that might be or to what degree its necessary, but at least most of us seem to have accepted that there is am underlying problem.

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OK. . Lets see, we need to give Doms shields. . .mez protection. . .a brute's 100% fury bar damage with a pre I5 damage enhancement assault build. . . more hit points. . . .well we basically just want a Dom to be a Brute but with Holds and an array of ranged attacks. Yeah. . .that would fix them. Oh yeah. We all also want the 1st tier attack changed to an Extreme damage fast recharge attack with a minimal activation time just to be sure everyone can play em.

P.S. Magnitude 10 holds would be great btw.

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This is pretty childish by btw.

There are different ideas on this forum and while I don't agree with all of them, a healthy discussion is great and I believe that's what the dev wants to see.

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Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.

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Yup. Corruptor can hold us easily 'cause we almost have no protection against controls. How ironic? Besides breakfrees, I don't think any Doms set offer any defense/mez defense. When we are on the receiving end, it's the worst nightmare. So much for being Dominator... our "minds" are just as easy to be dominated.

Corruptors have hold too. Our defense is so bad that almost anything can hit us. And Corruptors do good damage too.

I think the main problem or the main feeling of inferiority comes from when we cannot hold the foe successfully. What else can we do to stand out more? Damage-wise, we are doing so-so damage without Domination which takes time to build. Defense-wise, we are like on the bottom of the list. Debuff/buff-wise, we are one of the worst.

So, when we cannot hold/control, how can this AT shows its secondary nature power on the team?

I feel Dom needs health/defense boost at least. We have powers that require us to be in melee range but we don't have the survivability for it. When fighting elite bosses, I don't even dare to get close to him unless he is held.

What about our secondary defense? It's absolutely NIGHTMARE when I solo and I get held/stunned by a boss. I am done without Breakfrees. Other melee ATs have resistance/protection against secondary effects to make sure they can stay in melee but not Doms. We have almost no defense against secondary effects and primary effects (damage). This is a huge problem when we cannot control.

Actually, I feel my Dominator only shines when fighting against bosses that I can hold.

I am sure all the other ATs can handle minions but if I can hold the boss even just for a few seconds, I feel my Dom has done his job. I need Domination on to do that...

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One thing they can do though is to increase Domination gain against AV so Doms can dish out much better damage when Domination is on.

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Ooooooo, I really like that idea. I wouldnt mind my "control" power not affecting a certain enemy type (AVs or Giant Monsters) IF I was then alllowed to do more damage. If Doms would get to generate Domination 4 times faster when fighting AVs and GMs, then (IMO) this would be a fair trade off.

Just last night I was in a group taking down Deathsurge. If my controls were doing anything, it wasnt noticeable. My Domination was only up once during the fight, but during that time I felt like I was contributing because I was doing some decent damage.

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Giving us more Domination gain against super bosses is a good trade-off for us not being able to "hold" them. Holding them is indeed a bit too strong because what kind of tough fight it is if the boss is held throughout the fight? It's the same as holding a minion.

We have almost no defense when the opponent is not held/controlled so it's only logical to give us damage boost through quicker Domination gain. If not, we are inferior. We can't heal the team, we can't tank for the team, we can't debuff/buff for the team, and we can't even out damage most ATs. What can we do if we can't hold or control effectively? DAMAGE baby. That's our second nature, Assault.

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I dont understand why defenders and MMs have as good a control factor as dominators do.

[/ QUOTE ] I notice this all the time, and all the more so now that I've made two new MMs. It's astounding to me that (IMHO) my /dark has more effective controls that my grav/ except when domination is up. IMHO Even a clever /force field can control better.

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Yup, /Dark has aoe heal, fear, hold and great nasty debuffs and some good buffs from Shadow. That set is just imply too strong. No wonder so many MMs take /dark.