Jibikao
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Posts
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Joined
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By the way, does Scrapper proc stack or no?
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Quote:I am curious how you get critical after every AS. Do you have an attack chain longer than 10s? Or do you mean you get a critical after the initial AS?Originally Posted by Test_Rat
The Dom and tank procs must be long duration.
Keeping 3 stacks is trivial.
On beta I can get a crit after every AS in my KM attack chain, are the changes you are driving going to reduce that?
I've been testing with MA and Elec and I can't get a critical after each AS that lands. And that's because the proc is only supposed to grant a hidden status (but no placate effect) once every 10s. The bug some of us are seeing is how we would do the attack chain but suddenly a-strike becomes "interruptable" even though we did not use placate.
And I wasn't trying to ask to reduce the chance of critical effect. I thought the stacking proc is what's causing the bug so I asked synapse to just reduce the duration but he said that's not possible because all proc activation is at 10s and he won't change that.
By the way, can Scrapper stack their increased critical chance or not? -
Quote:But other sets with some AoE also have single target attacks. Those "bizarre" people can easily skip the aoe and take ST attack if they only want ST attack for some reasons?Originally Posted by Wavicle
MA and EM don't need AoEs.
The reason why:
I know for a FACT there are some (bizarre) people out there who want to make toons with only single target attacks, and it's not so bad that there should be a couple of sets for those people.
And it's not like Electricity's ST attack is that junk. Other sets have more options while MA and EM are so limited.
MA and EM's ST damage is only ahead by a small margin.
I really think they should re-evaluate sets that got their pbaoe taken out. They need to either make ST attacks more potent or make the other cone attack much better (IE Slice and Headsplitter having wider and longer reach). -
Quote:Mmmmm, how long does dominator proc last? I am assuming 10s just like Stalker proc? Seismic Smash has 20s base recharge so it should have 100% chance. How can you stack it 3 times unless the duration lasts longer than 10s?Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I can perma 63% bonus on my dominator.
I just think its crazy that people are asking the stalker proc to be reduced in effectiveness when you have the Tanker, Dominator and Brute procs completely redefining characters.
Maybe I'll ask Synapse about it. :P All I know is he said all proc activation time is at 10s because I asked him if he can reduce Stalker proc's duration to avoid stacking problem. -
Quote:It's been a while but I think pets have damage cap at 400%? If so, with full enhancements, that's only pushing it up to 200ish %?Originally Posted by Cheetatron
By the time you have 90-118% dmg enhancement aren't additional dmg buffs worth only around half of their value to base when compared to your total dmg as in 30% dmg buff to an attack with 100 dmg base and 100 dmg enhancement 200 dmg before external buffs only gains and additional 30 dmg in this case a 15% boost to total damage. Unless I'm missing somthing 22% -res does much more for your damage. As that one 200 damage attack should now deal an additional 44 dmg and all your damage sources gain a similar boost
It is true that pets have lower base damage so 30% damage buff on them isn't as good as on Corr/Defender but the good news is Corr/Defender can't cast Forge on themselves but MMs can cast on their "weapons".
-22% resist is better than 30% damage buff but Melting Armor has pretty long recharge. You can't have it up every fight... well, you can if you are Merc and you are fighting like x7 or x8. hehe That may take a while to finish off the whole group. -
Quote:The regular dominator proc gives 21% damage boost for how long? And they can stack up to 3 times?Originally Posted by Test_Rat
So I hope he looks at the brute and dominator procs as well, as they proc EVERYTIME I use the power I slot them in. I am not certain about the Brute proc but I know the dominator proc is using the same tech as the stalker one.
Well, you basically get a critical once every 12-15s with stalker's proc. The tough part is you may not use a heavy hitter with that critical.
I guess somebody can compare the two procs mathematically. Maybe dominator's proc is too good? How does the damage proc from blaster, corr and controller compare? -
Photon Seekers need some help. Here is what I have problem with:
1. You cast it before the fight and you run in and the seekers only hit the few mobs that stand close to you. Damage potential not great.
2. You run into the mob and cast it, boom, the mobs are all scattered away from you due to the knock back.
Either way, the damage potential is always less unless it's only one target left and all 3 seekers hit the same target.
I really don't like the knock back in seekers. It's annoying. PB has more than enough knock backs. -
More info from Synapse. (I only copy and paste his PM here because it's really not a "personal private" matter that can't be seen by others. It's only about how the proc works and how we can fix it) I figure it is easier to just copy and paste what he says to reduce confusion/questions.
If memory serves... 15s recharge powers should have a 100% chance to proc, but only once within a 10 second activation window. This doesn't mean once every 10 seconds though. Imagine time being broken up into 10 second chunks. A proc can occur in each of those chunks once. So you might have procs at the end of one chunk and the beginning of the next making it seem like it procs more than it should. That's just how activation time works on auto powers (enhancements are just fancy auto powers). -
Looks like your build is for PvP? Because the shark attacks are terrible in pve for its activation time and you didn't take Chain Induction? Wait, you took the shark hold power, not the attack. T_T
Chain Induction is my 2nd most favorite attack in Electricity Melee. :P
Well, if you want to squeeze Chain Induction in, I guess you can take Maneuver out. Stalker's Maneuver isn't that strong and that's a lot of endurance cost. You are running Tough/Weave/Maneuver without Body epic? How are you going to last in a long fight?
I don't want to scare you but the new assassin strike will demand a lot more endurance usage. It is an excellent attack that requires much better endurance management to maintain it constantly.
To me, you either have a PvP specific build or a PvE specific build. The in-between builds are just meh... Your build looks like it's in-between. -
By the way, Oni has AI issue which prevents him from using all of his attacks at melee range. If Oni truly cycles all the attacks, he will do the most damage of all!!!
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Quote:Sorry I was talking about how awesome Enforcers are. They are mostly all range except sometimes they run in to smash.Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Thugs are not all ranged.
I did 2-minute mark testings against dummies on most of the MM pets a while back and Enforcers are the most amazing pets in the game because their damage is way ahead of Spec-Ops and majority of it is cone attack.
I basically count how many attacks were used during that 2-minute mark.
Genins cycle a lot of attacks during 2-minute mark. They just can't survive... -
Quote:Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think 10s with every a-strike hit is harder than it looks because if you have a fast attack chain and the 2nd a-strike hits right under 10s, then you need 3rd attack chain to get it. I am not going to delay second a-strike because of that proc because critical a-strike hits harder and faster.Originally Posted by Kage
For example, my build will be able to make really good use of the Stalker proc since going through my optimal attack chain twice takes only a little over 10 seconds. If instead of being slightly over 10 seconds it was slightly under 10, I would need to go through my attack chain 3 times to get a crit rather than 2, getting roughly 33% less procs in extended combat, or adjust my attack chain to make better use of the proc which may or may not result in a DPS increase.
I guess I'll just tell myself not to care too much about it. If it happens, it happens. I mean critical is critical. -
By the way, the regular proc 100% in a 15s recharge attack. What about the Superior version? What recharge does it need to proc 100%?
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Quote:Well, as Dark Blast, I don't have a 10s attack to make that proc happens more often. The regular is 4/min so to make it happen 100%, I would need an attack with at least 15s recharge. Gaze is 20s so it can proc 100% of the time.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Really? Most people say the ato dmg procs are awful in aoes. I've noticed the same with the ato dmg proc i put in my corruptor's fireball which seems to proc less than than the positrons blast dmg proc i had in it previously.
I don't know. It was just a brief test. I put it in the aoe knock back power and it seems to happen pretty often. When I play my Dark Blaster, I prefer to open the battle with that aoe knock back and that extra proc damage is enough to help me kill off minions. -
Quote:Assassin Strike will be a good place and you can count the timer based on a-strike's recharge.Originally Posted by Kage
Thanks for letting us know. It's been kind of disappointing that this was the only AT that could potentially perform worse with their ATO proc slotted, so it'll be great having it fixed for I22 when we'll be able to make better use of it slotted into AS in combat, which seems to be the most popular place to slot it.
Every 10 seconds is still a good amount of extra damage, even if it works out to only occuring every other time through an attack chain for some.
With the proc not stacking, it should fix the "interruptable" assassin strike during attack chain.
One critical every 10s sounds good enough to me. The trick is to use it with a big hitter or pbaoe, then it's worth it.
Are other ATOs really that good? Dominator's sounds pretty good. What about Scrapper's? Do they get that many more critical out of it? I was testing Blaster's proc with my Dark Blast. I put it in Gaze since Gaze has base 20s recharge so it's 100% chance (overkill). The extra damage is nice but it's not as high as a good critical hit because you can't improve proc's damage with +damage (only from -resist) but a Stalker critical can benefit greatly from both +damage and -resist.
I later unslot the proc and put it in an aoe. I think blaster proc works better in an aoe with 12s or longer recharge. -
Good news!
Synapse said...
It is now fixed internally. It should now proc only once every 10 seconds and there won't be any second application of the effect. It is also slightly more likely to play nice with offensive toggles.
Getting a critical every time 10s is good IMO. Getting a critical every time a-strike lands sounds too good to me. -
Anyway, Synapse said he may have found the problem.
I am seeing what the problem is though. The problem is that the hidden buff isn't double applying. What it's actually doing is running the power attributes again. It seems like the power's attributes aren't cancelling like they should be. -
Robot - 5 stars (less raw damage but Assault Robot has -500% regen to make up for it)
Thug - 4.5 stars (Enforcer is the true best MM pets IMO. Great ST and AoE damage and defense and all range. Bruiser's AI has improved)
Demon - 4 stars (a bit too melee-oriented but ovreall, a very strong set. The demon body size is a bit too big. They block each other a lot)
Merc - 3 stars (they don't excel at anything but they are mostly range)
Necro - 3 stars (zombies is the worst minion IMO but Grave Knights are good and Lich needs a bit more damage)
Ninja - 2 to 2.5 stars (or 4 stars if you combo it with Force Field)
Beast - 2.5 stars or higher
My experience with Beast/FF is only at level 17. However, I looked through all the details and I see plenty of "cons" about this set. One, it's 99% melee set. Being 99% melee in itself is a huge disadvantage because there are some bosses and fights that have nasty aoe and your pets will melt. The new addition of S/L resistance is good but some of the nastiest aoe is Psionic and Fire which they can't resist.
I didn't rate 1 Star because all sets are very playable. 1 Star sounds like it's unplayable to me. -
Quote:Thermal is a good mix of defensive and offensive Support set. By skipping Forge, Melting Armor and Heat Exhaustion, you skipped 3 important Offensive tools... why bother picking Thermal then?Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I should point out that I'm playing Mercs/Thermal. There are some pools I want to mix in so I've really got to hunt for good skipping powers. I'm tempted to even give up Melt Armor or Heat Exhaustion, but Forge is at the top of the list for now.
Basically I've got enough def debuffs to never worry about missing in single player, and the only pet who's worth buffing damage on is the Commando. It would be really nice to get the boost, though. Maybe I'll wait and take Forge when I'm pushing close to Level 50, so as to have it available for end game content.
Between Forge and Melting Armor, I would skip Melting Armor. I definitely will not skip Heat Exhaustion. -500% regen is nothing to laugh at.
Forge VS Melting Armor VS Heat Exhaustion
I will choose Forge first. Why?
Forge's buff is constant and you can apply to at least 2 targets with SOs. Yes, Merc may not be the best choice but your teammates will like it.
Melting Armor has 22% debuff. Your Merc is probably slotted with AH Proc. When I played my /thermal, I sometimes forget to use Melting Armor but if you have good recharge, it's decent.
Heat Exhaustion, while it has nasty 500% -regen and -50% damage debuff debuff, if you don't fight AVs all the time, you won't notice HE's benefit that much. -
I PMed Synapse about the bug and he said he'll look into it after issue 22 came out. He does want more info so if you can, please do the following:
Also, can you do me a favor? Can you give me the following information?
-Which ATO do you have slotted? (Standard or Superior)
-What is your attack chain that makes these problems obvious?
-What is the behavior you expect?
-Is there an attack chain that always works?
I want to get more info for him so he can look into it more later but I don't have time to test all the tests and possible attack chains. I want to forward this thread to him once we have more details so please just focus on the topic and be specific.
Edit: All ATO proc activation time is 10s which can't be changed. I did suggest reducing timer down to 5s or less to avoid stacking procs.
Edit 2: Please list your +recharge rate. It's important to know if you are stacking procs or not. -
Quote:I play mostly stalker and I can tell you /Shield FITS Stalker's gameplay perfectly (except for one power which can be easily replaced just like what they did for Willpower).Originally Posted by Trickshooter
The actual design of the Shield Defense powerset is what they've always been concerned doesn't fit Stalkers: defending allies, relying on allies to buff their defense, and then having lower defenses than other sets in exchange for a nearly build up-level damage buff when you're surrounded by enemies.
Shield has a bit lower personal defense in exchange for granting defense to others and having an awesome aoe attack that all Stalkers would die for.
Stalker is never going to grab aggro away from Tanker/Brute/Scrapper so the weaker personal defense really doesn't matter as much as some people think. If you play Stalkers enough, you'll realize that 1. you aren't going to be the meatshield for the team 2. even if you want to be the meatshield, you will have trouble grabbing aggro away from teammates. I use my Stalker and team with my friend's dominator and corr, and I can tell you that I can't grab aggro away from them even if I want to. Stalker has no taunt at all.
Stalker can technically buff teammates inside before the fight even begins! Several Stalkers can Grant Cover each other before Assassination starts!
Shield Charge does not break Hide so you can easily follow up with another nasty critical attack.
I think the sole reason that Stalker can't have Shield is that it is going to be "TOO GOOD" for Stalker. The idea that /shield won't work with Stalker is completely false IMO. /Shield works too well on Stalker and it makes other secondaries look bad and unattractive in terms of performance.
Sacrificing personal survival for more Damage is a PERFECT fit for an Assassin. This means Stalker will never have /Shield and /Fiery Armor. Stalker's performance is all tied to BU and Assassin Strike now. There is no way they'll give Stalker a shield charge or another build up in Fiery Embrace.
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Quote:I have no problem with set proliferation but I do have a problem when Stalker is the only AT that is being restricted. Sure, Scrapper can have Ninjitsu if my Stalker can have either /shield or titan weapon (both claimed by the dev that theme does not fit).Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I think what some people are trying to get at is that any consideration of "AT fairness" based on something like set availability is kind of bizarre from the off. I would think, and hope, that the most common viewpoint among players is that more proliferation = better. Rather than looking at stalkers and shields and getting bent out of shape, one thus merely considers it a proliferation opportunity that has not happened yet, just like ninjitsu on scrappers. It isn't a situation where one gap justifies the other since neither is justified.
If you're coming at it from the alternate perspective of "ATs should have unique sets" then I suppose there's a fundamental disagreement. Perhaps we can at least agree to disagree!
Scrapper can have Energy Melee but I want War Mace on Stalker too.
Honestly, Scrapper is the base performance comparison for all four melee and they can have every set and people can find a theme for it. Scrapper's inherent does not interfere with any of the new mechanisms in melee sets (combo, form change, titan weapon), unlike Stalker who is married to Build Up and Assassin Strike and the dev needs to modify the new sets to fit Stalker's gameplay. -
Looking at how the dev "restrict" Stalker theme by what they should have, I don't think Stalker would have Axe/Mace. Ice Melee is definitely possible though.
I like how Stalker and Scrapper have different sets but I also think we should be the one creating our themes. If I feel my Stalker can carry a big giant weapon, then so be it. If I feel my Stalker can assassinate somebody with bright shocking Electricity, then so be it.
But really, Ninjitsu isn't really that good of a defensive set. I would take Ice Armor and Energy Aura over it. -
Quote:As a 50+1 SJ/Ice Stalker user, I can tell you that Ice Armor is THE BOMB. Spine/Ice is going to be the most nasty -slow/recharge in the game.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I
I'd much rather see Ice Armor ported to scrappers. Spines/Ice FTW. -
One more update.
I took Stalker set out from Assassin Strike and put it in Eagle Claw. Technically, it should proc 100% because Eagle Claw has 16s recharge.
I basically start the fight with: BU + Eagle + Axe (critical 100%) + Cobra + AS + Crane and repeat.
My Axe could land a critical for 7 times in a row. I think this is what some people are seeing.
It is really odd. It is definitely bugged and I think it has a lot to do with the proc duration because with high recharge, you could be stacking more than one proc and that's where confusion happens IMO.
Either way, I can get a more reliable Critical by putting the proc in Eagle Claw than in A-strike and I don't know why. A great way to prove that it's bugged is to simply use Eagle Claw + Axe and since I have good recharge in Eagle Claw, it comes up before the 10s duration expires which triggers another proc. If I only do Eagle + Axe and do nothing and wait for Eagle to come back, the next Axe is not a critical.
It seems to all pointing to the stacking proc that is causing the bug IMO.