Jibikao
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The first AT that comes to mind is Crab. You don't really need fancy sets and Crab gets very good team defense buff and very good aoe and you don't need to buff your teammates. Just put on the toggles and GO GO GO.
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That's a very reasonable change. It was too powerful especially if you run Elec/Shield. The two "mini nuke" was too good.
The new change still allows you to charge in and knockdown which is what this power's main purpose is. -
Funny, I've never been impressed by Scrappers so I don't really know what their epic moments are.
Stalker can scrap very well during god-modes or loads of inspirations, just like Brutes.
I think some people may be impressed by Stalker's Spines aoe damage and Electricity Melee. -
Quote:Yup. I read through Brute and Scrapper's Kinetic as well and looks like Brute can debuff a bit more than Scrapper/Stalker.Originally Posted by Golden_Pie
What you see in mids is the secondary effect which is -dmg (de)buff on your target.
I also agree that after 32 I rarely open with AS, but then again my main stalker is Elec/Ninja
I thought the damage debuff is something unique to Stalker since I wasn't really paying attention when I looked at Scrapper's.
Yes, with Electricity Melee, BU, Lightning Rod + Thunder Strike is better than AS on a larger team, but if you are Energy, MA, DM, Ninja or Broadsword, you are kinda stuck with AS to open the battle.
Assassin Strike's stated activation time is 2.67s. I wonder if they can just make it 2.67s and forget about the whole 4s setup time. -
Quote:I was just a bit mad last night that Stalker doesn't get Siphon Power. I thought maybe, just maybe, the dev would find some ways to get Siphon Power in. I don't know how but Assassi Strike is where I would look into it as that power appears in every set. I was reading Mids and it shows that each Kinetic attack can reduce the target's damage?? Is that true for all melee ATs or just Stalker? I don't know if mids is trying to show damage buff or debuff. It shows -%5.63 damage buff on Quick Strike. That negative seems like a debuff or each hit buffs damage? That could be interesting...Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
This I agree with, as well as the sentiment of your post. It does seem that Buildup/AS/Placate seem to have way too much sway over primary powerset design. Your suggestion of tying different effects to AS that are unique to each primary is one I would heartily get behind.
(Although I would point out that the sweep combo on stalkers deals out some very nice mitigation for the chaos right after the AS. - Still get your point about DB, though).
I'll make a Kin Stalker for sure after I am done with Elec Dom. :P
I just think if Assassin Strike is tied to every set then the answer to buff Stalkers is gotta be in that power. After my Spines, Claw/ Elec and even Dual Blade hit lvl 32, I rarely open with AS + Build Up unless I am soloing so there is only a few targets.
They can start by shortening the activation time and get rid of "interrupted". In pve, who cares if you spend 4s or 1s if you are soloing? On a team, a stalker needs to speed up the process of "elimination" and 4s is too long IMO.
Stalker's damage is fine but stalker's "assassinating" speed is not fine and that's why when we are on a large team full of Brute/Corr/Dom/MM, you feel like why bother setting up Assassin? Just hit build up and use Throw spines or Shockwave or Lightning Rod. But if you are Martials, Energy or Dark Melee, you kinda have no choice but to use AS as opener because that gives you the most damage in one hit. -
Quote:Big damage? You mean spending 4s on Assassin Strike in the beginning or possibly getting interrupted or sometimes missed?Originally Posted by Golden_Pie
yeah big damage and the AOE debuff on AS doesn't help the team out at all...ha ha good one.
One could argue that placate hurts the team by sending aggro their way, but that's the trade off for getting those Crits. Plus it fits thematically that having a distracted enemy helps the assassin find/land that killer blow. And it's not like an assassin wouldn't use a teammate as bait would he???
AoE Debuff? You talking about that random fear? Or am I missing something extraordinary debuff that was added while I was away?
So if a Stalker that doesn't open with Assassin Strike loses that so-called Big Damage and AoE debuff?
And if you are soloing, who cares if you spend 4s on AS or 1s. It's not like the foes can see you (some minor exception on Drones and Knives).
PS: Forget about what I said about Placate. That power is replaced by Confront/Taunt. It is Assassin Strike that I have most problem with because in order to land AS, a Stalker is tied to Hidden + Build Up (no follow up, no siphon power unique power) and 4s of interrupted period. -
Quote:It could be a good start but that will not improve Stalker population except for pleasing the veterans.Originally Posted by Golden_Pie
Like other have said, this is the perfect way to massage Stalkers, which is all they need a little massage.
New players will still think Stalker does not live up to a good "assassin" AT but it's just my opinion. The best start is to get rid of the radius on Team Critical buff.
Contrary to most stalker fans, I think Stalker survives just fine. Having lower HP doesn't break the AT. The problem is Stalker is not contributing to the team much or needs to wait too long to feel Stalker is welcomed to the team.
The problem, as I've stated before, is Assassin Strike and Placate. Because of those two powers, Stalker doesn't get any unique/team-friendly powers so what can the dev do to make those two powers more team-friendly or even more Assassin-like? -
The problem with Stalker in general is a combination of feeling "inferior" and feeling" bored".
It is ok if an AT is under-performing as long as it's FUN. Not everyone is attracted to being min/max. In fact, none of my friends care if power 1 activates slower than power 2 as long as they think power 1 looks cool and fun.
This game CoX is EXTREMELY team-friendly. With auto-sidekick and buffs/debuffs stacking, who doesn't want to team up in this game? But Stalker's design is lacking in team context.
I recently came back and I was playing Lord of the Ring online. They have Burgular who is like an Assassin type of character. What Burgular contributes the most on a team that the others have a hard time fulfilling is Leadership Maneuver attack that the whole team can perform together. I am not an expert in Lotro but that gives me a reason to invite Burgular because Burg does decent damage and control and the leadership maneuver can deal massive damage on a single target. This is just one way where Assassin can help out on a team. Not saying this is the best way but I feel Stalker is missing something on a team. Assassin Strike takes too long to activate and its damage is still not that impressive. -
I was looking through Kinetic Melee on Stalkers and I think I know why Stalkers are perceived bad or maybe they are....
I honestly think Stalkers are designed to be "boring" in a lot of ways. Take a look at new melee sets like Dual Blade and Kinetic Melee. Those two were designed WITHOUT Stalker in mind. They were designed for generic melee like Brute and Scrapper. The dual blade combos in Brute/Scrapper are actually fun while Stalker has two combos that are tied to AS so you only really get to enjoy 2/4 combos most of the time. The extra range on 1K Cuts is nice or else DB is useless on Stalker. And I actually like Stalker dual blade (lvl 50 db/nin) but I can see why some people feel there is nothing special about DB Stalker.
Then I look at Kinetic Melee for the first time last night. It's got one very interesting power in Siphon Power. I dig it. It's different and that's what new sets are supposed to be like "different" but guess what Stalker gets? A Build Up. Yes yes yes, I know Build Up FITS Stalkers better but it's almost like every time there is a new set, it IS NOT DESIGNED FOR Stalker in mind. Stalker gets this "let's just take some AoE Powers, some unique powers out and swap them with Assassin Strike". Ok done! There you go, a new set for Stalker!
I have not tried Kinetic Melee and unless they did something special for Stalker, Kin set looks pretty piss-poor on Stalker without that unique power Siphon Power. It seems just like Energy Melee with long activation and a range attack like Focus.
Yes, I know "how are you supposed to use Siphon Power during hide? Yes, I know you can't but this doesn't mean Stalker shouldn't get "creative powers" at all?
In a way, I think Stalker is "designed" to be unpopular because they are tied to Assassin Strike so much that they are missing out on many "cool" and "team-friendly" powers. If Stalker is missing those, then the key problem is Assassin Strike itself! That's it. I think AS is the biggest problem for me now.
Why can't each Assassin Strike do unique things in each set so it actually gives people a good reason to use? Why can't Kinetic Assassin Strike boosts Stalker's damage after it hits so Stalker is not losing out on Siphon Power kind of buff? Spine AS can poison the target and Electricity AS can drain like 40-50% of endurance on npc?
Is it me or I think Assassin Strike is the reason why Stalker just seems unimpressive? Forget about having low HP or not doing enough Damage. When an AT is defined by TWO powers, there is really nothing creative about the whole AT unless those two powers are actually different/unique.
And since the new melee sets were never designed with Stalker in mind, Stalker is bound to be "unimpressive".
What is special with Kinetic Stalker? I think I'll try it later but judging from the descriptions, I can't find one.
PS: I took out Placate as one of the problems as it is mainly replaced by Confront/Taunt. -
Quote:Oh... . interesting. I just came back. When I made electricity/dark Stalker, I believe it was back in 16 or 17. Cool.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
I believe this is being fixed or has been fixed for I18 or shortly thereafter, is it not? Stalker toggles like the two in dark armor and repel from energy aura will NOT effect enemies until hide is broken, if I recall correctly.
I've never played the set, tbh, but I thought Energize was a heal?
I don't remember Energize either. My friend made an /elec back then but not sure if they changed it later or not?
Mmmm, my memory of stalker is fading... -
Quote:I have done it with my twin brother. We were both Sonic/Pain. We chose Sonic because they stack well and we like the stun and knockbacks.Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Has anyone else tried this (either dual box or duo)?
Inspired by the awesome power of my Empathy duo, I've been levelling a Pain Domination/Energy Blast duo recently, and been pleasantly surprised to find that it doesn't completely suck.
I've had to delay fighting +2s until the mid 20's, and have had my fair share of deaths along the way.
I'm currently 27, and the star power so far has been Soothing Aura. I hadn't really twigged to how useful an animation-free heal would be until I saw it in action - what doesn't kill me quickly never really has a chance.
Next up, of course is World of Pain, my first decent mutual buff.
From there it looks like the big milestones are PainBringer at 38 and Charged Armor at 41 (capped resistance to S/L/E + huge regen is a very powerful combo).
So it looks like this will scale up rather well as I level, after a bit of a slow start. Has anyone who's tried this got any comments or tips?
/Pain starts out pretty weak until World of Pain. Once you have better recharge, WoP stacks well. Soothing Aura is a bit more tricky as you two need to stand close to get the benefits.
My bro and I used to run big teams so our double WoP really helps MM's pets.
I am not a big fan of the 2nd big heal. I forgot what the name is. It's the one that you can't get healed for 15s. I think it's BS. When I play Corr, I like to blast a lot so I am not going to heal somebody and can't get healed for 15s.
Tips:
1. Get the single stun from Sonic. Both of you can stun a boss and add more -resist.
2. AoE Knockback is optional but if you guys like to fight bigger mob, the AoE sleep may be more helpful.
3. Skip the 2nd single heal (8s recharge one). I don't think it's worth it. If you absolutely need one more single heal, Aid Other is better IMO.
Have fun.
I like duo /Pain a lot because you really only need to cast WoP and Pain Bringer.
Another very good duo combo is Dark/Cold. It truly shines at lvl 35 (Sleet). -
My Demon is lvl 29 right now. Please don't compare Merc to Demon. It is NOT even close.
How did they let Demon pass the beta testing is beyond me. This set is so overpowering right now. Demon pretty much cover most of the weaknesses that other primaries used to suffer.
1. Fire resistance weakness: I used to think Longbow Flamethrower was designed to kill MM's Pets and they are VERY good at it because pets don't have fire resistance except for Oni (who is a boss pet).
2. Fast attacks
3. Stacking resistance from Ember Demon and even some healing.
And I am going to compare Prince VS Oni soon. I feel they are not balanced.
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If you play Demon or Thug, you will definitely feel there is something missing in Merc. Don't get me wrong, Merc and Necro are the only MM that I have leveled to 50. I got bored playing Thug/Trap 'cause it was too good. And I couldn't level Robot higher than 12. Ninja just frustrates me. -
I like Merc but a more valid question is should the sets be balanced around having Procs/Sets?
I honestly think Merc's damage is too low without the procs.
I mean I could afford getting those procs when they were pretty cheap but now good luck on getting AH proc. Ugh. -
Quote:Mmmmm, do you have the same Secondary for both Merc and Necro? If you just made them, then Merc actually starts out better IMO. Well, maybe Merc used to do better before they give "innate accuracy bonus before lvl 20" because each Merc hit reduces target's defense so at lower lvl, Merc's damage is actually on the "high end". This of course could be no longer the case as accuracy isn't that big of a problem before lvl 20.Originally Posted by Dz131
Ok I know mercs are the worst set in the MM profession. But I gave it a try to see how it played and it seems like they are so much worse than my zombie MM it wasn't even funny.
Does anyone have any comparison numbers on the merc set because it seems to me they're not just slightly worse but at least 2-3 times worse than any other MM set out there, especially when grouping you get 2 ticks of a burst dot off and the mob dies from someone else. Also does it get better at higher levels? I'm lv 16 right now.
And because Merc reduces target's defense, your Vet attacks land much easier (Sands of Mu or Staff attack).
Merc's damage without the procs can be a bit too low. This I agree. I've made two lvl 50 Merc. Merc/Poison and Merc/Storm. /Storm is like 3x better than /Poison if you ask me.
No, Merc's damage doesn't get whole lot better in comparison to other primaries because other primary's aoe either have bigger Cone or bigger Target AoE. Soldier's cone is pathetically "narrow" and Commando needs to stand between 40' to get the best out of his cones. However, Merc's single target ranged damage is actually better than Robot. It is hard to tell as Merc does mostly DoT. Another thing you need to keep in mind that while Zombies may deal better damage, they also die a lot easier being melee.
I like Merc but I like them for selfish reason. They are RARE!!! hehe And also, soldier bodies are small so they normally don't block each other unlike Robot and Demon. My god, Demons are way too huge!!! In a normal room size, two demons can't even hit through the door. -
Quote:I know!!!!!!!Originally Posted by Candlestick
I miss my Poison Trap.
I still remember when they first introduced procs. HOLY !@#$#. Was Poison Trap godly. -
Quote:I have fun putting procs in Merc/Storm MM.Originally Posted by Nny_the_mad
i'm not necessarily (as my 2 exemples show it) aiming at damage proc only.
chance to stun, to hold, to placate... those "trick" proc appeal me a lot too.
of course as the chance to heal proc is sadly a so unfunny joke, that i may ignore it. -
Quote:Really? Why is that? I thought using procs on a character with less damage is better since Blaster probably gets better damage with just damage enhancements? Defender and Troller with procs, I can understand.Originally Posted by prev1
I'll second rad blast, dark miasma. Real players do it on corrupters though :P.
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I've finalized my thoughts after playing my Corr/MM with Brute. I've been thinking why Stalkers aren't that productive on a team (besides not having enough AoE in certain sets):
1. In PvE, they gotta reduce the activation time on AS. 4s is way too long and if you add interrupt, a Stalker may spend 4s doing nothing. Of course sets like Spines and Electricity don't need to open with AS on a team but some sets are better with AS opener like Martial Arts. I think the 4s is there to balance Stalker in PvP but Stalker needs some love in PvE. And Spines/Electricity don't get their big aoe until 32 and this is why you see people abandoning stalkers early.
2. Stalker should get critical team buff regardless of "radius". Some said making the radius larger could cause more lags. Then the easier solution is to get rid of "radius" limit. Stalker gets the benefit of critical chance with more party members on the team. Makes sense to me! If the current 30' radius isn't helping Stalker's population, it is safe to assume having no restraint on effective radius won't "ruin" the AT.
3. Balance some of the secondary sets like Dark Armor and Electricity Armor. Dark Armor has two powers that can get stalkers out of hide. Electricity Armor is an average resistant set with NO healing to backup. The "go go go" mentality fits Brute/Scrapper but not Stalker. I've tried that Repel aura in Energy Aura set. It is really not useful on Stalker. Sure, I can knock things back but I am also draining my endurance too fast! A knockback aura on a melee toon just seems... flawed?! It may have a use in pvp? Who knows. I don't think people like Energy Aura much in pvp?
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Let's start with these 3 after GR came out. Pretty please.
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Quote:This is a valid point.Originally Posted by FlyingCodeMonkey
I'm out of my element in this thread, and do not presume expertise over experienced Stalker players. So, this is little more than a question from a casual observer ... but here goes: does it really matter if Stalks aren't directly competitive with Scraps in terms of overall defenses and average damage?
I've seen people (not necessarily in this thread) pose the question: why, in the GR world, would a team choose a Stalker over a Scrapper? Well sure, if we're speaking in a competitive sense, they wouldn't. Speaking as a Mastermind enthusiast, they wouldn't pick me, either. MMs don't really bring anything to the table that some other AT doesn't do better. BG is great, but we don't have the mez protection of Tanks or Brutes or Scraps or even Stalks. Our buffs are weak compared to Defenders. So, a competitive speed TF team isn't looking for Masterminds. Good luck getting the pity spot on an LRSF run. Those teams don't really want Blasters, either. Mez-proof and buffed Brutes/Scraps provide tons of damage and survivability. I'm not exactly thrilled about that fact, but it isn't a reflection on Stalkers.
Stalks get decent defenses, massive single-target burst damage, and criticals. They solo great, and they do just fine in conventional teams or PUGs. Suppose you decide that to "compete" with Scrappers, Stalks need to inflict lots more damage ... well, if that happened you've probably made Blasters even more obsolete. How much more damage is reasonable before it starts to compete with the Brute, who has to stay in constant motion stoking Rage to keep his damage high? Where does it end?
But the deeper problem in Stalker is more than just not having the highest damage with lower HP than Scrapper. There's been data mining that shows that many people pick Stalkers but they end up abandoning them. It shows there is some problems with the design of Stalker, and mainly I think the problem is that
1. lower level Stalker is pathetically weak due to one Assassin Strike and Placate (placate is a terrible low level power if you pick it). Placate is only decent when you solo.
2. Some of the Stalker sets have no aoe or very weak aoe power so they feel "inferior" when others deal aoe damage (this also applies to Claw/Dual Blade/Electricity because their aoe powers come much later). I know there are Stalkers who try to setup AS in every group but sometimes after the first AS is off, the whole mob is about gone. It's like why bother setting an AS?
I think the dev just needs to smooth out Stalker's Early Stage and increase Team critical buff range so Stalker almost always gets that buff on a team. I love Stalker mainly for the critical. I get this weird excitement when I see text "Critical".
I don't think Stalker needs fancy things like "chance to placate". I think that is hard to create/balance and can cause more problems if your Stalker teams with other squishies.
I actually have been thinking that maybe they should just change Placate to Smoke Flash kind of buff power so Stalker can score critical during a very limited time. 10s like what the Ninja has is too long. Maybe 5-6s? This way a Stalker can placate and use two heavy hitters to finish off two minions if he has no aoe powers. -
Quote:Oh yeah!! I know I've killed my friend that way by using Placate while the boss is on me and that boss end up smashing the !@#$# out of my friend. I sometimes forgot that if I put Placate, my friend(s) will take aggro even though my intention is to score a Critical hit.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
You likely haven't seen a stalker's placate in the middle of a battle directly kill another team mate very often because stalkers can currently control who and when they placate. The first and only time I incorrectly used placate on a team resulted in a squishy being killed by my intended victim, and I never used it wrong again. Giving stalkers a random aoe placate every time they crit (I believe that was the suggestion) is taking that control away.
So yeah, I agree with you that giving Stalker "random" Placate can be dangerous for the team. In fact, after leveling several Stalkers to 50, I end up not using Placate much. Placate is one power which I think is under-performing in the Stalker sets since every set has it. They really need to speed up the activation so Stalker can score critical faster, although I am wondering if the Hiddren status comes to quick and we get hit right after that, we may lose the hidden status. ugh...
I still think the best/easy way is to increase Team Critical buff to the old "side-kick" radius. I mean if the current 30'ft isn't impressive to anyone, would it hurt to make it a large radius?
I am weird in a way that I don't want Stalker to have higher damage scale. I would rather have higher critical rate. I enjoy watching criticals. And if I remember correctly, sometimes I could score Double Critical!
Speaking about double critical, we do have a system in the game that allows continuous critical during a period of time (ex: Smoke Flash in Ninja). Maybe Placate can use that direction? After you hide, for the next 2-3 hits in 5s are guaranteed critical? Too strong? hehe The duration is there to make sure you don't wait for the next Total Focus to come up. You either use all your attacks right away or you lose the continuous critical(s). And rather than guaranteed critical rate, maybe an awesome 50% is good?
Edit: Speaking about Placate again, I normally don't take it until I am much higher level. I think my old Stalkers suffer more when they take Placate too early and not having enough attacks early on. Stalker's early stage is indeed one of the worst. I don't like Tankers so I don't know how they suffer but that's another topic. -
I made a lvl 50 Spines/EA.
/EA in general works reasonably well like other defense sets.
/EA in Stalker is not as unique as in Brute because a Brute with /EA can actually run into enemy group without being seen by nearby group or patrols. I think most AT's stealth are not suppressed after being "seen". Stalker is the only one that is suppressed after been seen so Stalker can be seen by a nearby group after coming out of "hidden". I don't know if I explain it really well... lol If you made an Energy Aura or Dark Armor Brute, you should know what I mean.
If you are fighting against anything but Psionic damage, /EA is pretty good. The aoe heal from Energy Aura is a nice buff I have to say. You just need more targets to get good healing going.
I've tried that Repluse thing. It's pure gimmick. I respec it out later. It was draining way too much endurance for it to be useful. -
Mmmm, interesting. I guess they can still keep Serum but make it affects all Pets within the supremacy range.
Turn all of them into "Rambo" but of course the effects need to be less since it's like a "god-mode".
How about something like:
1. Resistance to all but Psionic + 12% (enhanceable)
2. Damage buff +12.5%
3. Tohit buff + 5%
4. Duration 60s
5. When the mode crashes, all pets take 50% endurance penalty. I am not too sure why it needs endurance penalty but oh well....
I like this idea! Recharge can stay at 1000s. -
Another reason why Ninja suffers because both Caltrops and Ring of Fire wear off once the target is dead. You are probably better off directing them to attack different targets just so the "aoe damage" stay alive a bit longer.
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Quote:This is very very true. I won't say I am a Stalker expert but I have tried many Stalker combos and have several lvl 50s.Originally Posted by Star_Seer
I think one of the problems stalker players face is very restrictive early builds. You only start to get some options when you reach the mid 20s.
Spines is probably my most favorite Stalker just because I have AS for single target damage and Throw Spines for AoE. However, leveling a Spine is such a PAIN until you have Impale. The damage is so pathetic that I think most new players would delete Stalker before 12. Claw shares similar problem.
I like it that the newer sets have more aoe option like Elec Melee and Broadsword (two cones at least).
The dev needs to do something about Stalker pre-20 for new players. Old players know ways to get around it because the two Vet attacks (sands of mu and staff) really really help and even the new temp powers (like Hand Grenade and Plasma) help! I just came back to the game and I've been using more and more of those temp powers at low lvls when I don't have many attacks. New players without the two Vet attacks will have a terrible time doing decent damage with just Barb Swipe and Lunge.... T_T -
Quote:Yeah I agree. I think comparing Villains + HEAT + VEAT VS Heroes is more logical. I love the Villain side and I am one of the few that bought CoV and then CoH several months later. If I prefer CoV just because I play it first, then it's healthy to assume that those who start in CoH would prefer to stick with CoH. There is nothing wrong with that. It's just human nature.Originally Posted by 5th_Player
Villain HEAT VEAT population vs. HERO population is a sound observation.
The people that are attracted to villains aren't attracted to them because of "evil" but because they avoid the MMO holy trinity concept.
Villains and EATs also tend to be preferred by people who prefer solo.
I've seen the same trend in other games.
One thing I agree is that the Villain side doesn't feel "villain" enough. It's just seems very punky and soft. Villain side should be able to kill NPCs/citizens on the street and animals.
Do we have new date on Stalker popular after the Team Critical buff? If you want me to guess, I have to say the increase is not there because half of the Stalker players I know either don't know about the team buff or don't care. Unless the Character Creation teaches new players about Stalkers and their role on the team, Stalker population will never increase. I do feel there could be an increase after Going Rogue just because Hero players may want to use Stalker for pvp. This will lead to another big problem in PvP... less diversity in pvp.
The ONLY two ATs that I just can't level past lvl 14 is Tanker and HEAT. I've tried leveling a Peacebringer during TWO double exp weekend and each time I deleted PB after I reach lvl14. I just really dislike HEAT's design. I hate how there's not enough slots to improve the powers. I don't understand HEAT and I kinda don't need to because VEAT is just so much better (in my opinion of course). You can say VEATs are over powered but they are labeled as "elite" and I can live with it.