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Quote:The devs did say that they were adjusting the base damage of Dominators based on the performance of Dominators under permadom. If you have a problem with that, argue with the devs about it.A standard that's got nothing to do with the performance from which balance decisions are made and exploits a weakness in the engine, yes. I don't see such a standard as meaningful.
It's a little late to question the decision now. The deal is done.
And while Electric Assault may be doing less damage, Energy Assault and Psi Assault (outside of PSW) are doing more. Really, the whole point of balancing Psi Assault was to make the rest of its attacks do a lot more damage to make up for PSW doing less. It's not an even trade, of course, which is why it's a nerf. But nobody's arguing that PSW is weaker, only, you know, whether or not it deserved it. -
Quote:Not really. I don't really have any trouble managing my Endurance on any of my Doms. In fact, as I have said, I'm going to have to remove End management from my Electric Dom because he never runs out of any Endurance. And I don't really have his attacks slotted for that much End, I have Stamina 3-slotted, but except for the occasional End slot in my control powers, I don't know where I'm going to take it from.I see high recharge needed to fill attack chains and domination as necessary as ever to fuel the higher endurance consumption rate.
So if you're not noticing a huge amount of additional damage when you are not in Domination, and not finding your Domination bar fill up just about the time you need it for more Endurance, well, all I can say is I am. On my Fire Dom. I don't know what to say, except that maybe it's the fact that you feel you have to spam attacks and keep your attack chain going all the time. (Even with bugged powers like Flares) I rarely have foes last that long in combat against me, but maybe you do need more End slotting than me.
You yourself say it's easier, so I'm guessing you're killing faster. You just don't like the "feel" of it. With Fire I can understand that, I've always avoided Flares, so to me Fire has always been a little clunky. But I'm not happy with Fire. I put up with it, honestly, Fire is still getting extra damage no other set gets, so it's efficient, and there's no looking down on Fiery Embrace. But there's still no word on Flares. I'd be happy with a +15% damage secondary effect, but I don't know if we're going to get it. -
Quote:The changes weren't meant to effect permadom. The changes were meant to effect those players that did not want to have or had not yet achieved permadom. Casual players... don't really have permadom.Forgive me but without running hero stats very few players will be able to feel a ~10% net difference in either direction. IMO if you require analytical data to determine an improvement then the changes were a failure. Casual players don't use outside programs to analyze their playtime.
I wouldn't expect anyone who had permadom, who had achieved that level of performance, to see any significant difference. It's the people who aren't through with their Doms yet that will be effected, that's what the devs were aiming for. They were trying to get it so the endpoint once you reached 50 was the same, but it kind of missed in some places. Maybe some of those misses will be shaken out in the future. (Then again, maybe not.)
What Dominators really need is individual attention to the Assault Sets. The OP's suggestions are fine, but he's treating all Doms as if they have End problems, when some have no problems with End or are even better. I'm sure no one will agree to sacrificing how great Energy Assault is now, just to get the old End costs back, or to get rid of the "clunkiness". -
Maybe not, but it sets a standard. If your comparison is to old pre-Domination damage, then yeah, Electric does way more damage. But your base line is so low you can't really make out the subtle differences between the sets based on their own changes.
Electric always did have a lot of damage, though. -
Quote:True, but Dimension Shift's duration is currently 30 seconds. (But unenhanceable, at least in duration) And it's really 15 seconds of Intangible followed by 5-25 seconds of Sleep. So not really all that unusual.I said 15/20 because I figured the Sleep duration would be enhancable, and 15/40 when fully enhanced seemed not unrasonable. But even a 20 second sleep is long by the standards of the current AoE Sleeps.
It wouldn't be too hard to make the portion of the Sleep that corresponds to the Intangible unenhanceable. So 10-15 seconds of Immobilize followed by a 10 second sleep enhancible to 20. (And Mass Hypnosis is 22 seconds at level 50, unenhanced. Maybe I am reading it wrong?) -
I'm sorry, what I meant to say was "Energy Assault, Fire Assault and Psi Assault recieved much higher End costs due to their individual attacks doing more damage per activation". The word "time" slipped in there due to it coming up as a phrase so often.
I was trying to clarify that I was speaking in terms of base damage scale of the attack, relative to its End cost and recharge. This is not damage per activation time or damage per recharge time. I ended up saying exactly the opposite.I hope you don't mind my editing it to be more clear.
Now, my statement is true, in that those attacks DO have greater DPA (as they have more damage within the unchanged activation time) and they also have greater Endurance cost. (because the End cost was increased as well) However, the direct connection is between damage scale and Endurance, not DPA and Endurance.
Flares actually has decreased damage scale, increased Endurance cost, and increased recharge time. It fits the formula now, but did not fit it previously unless you assume the extra 30% damage was the Fire secondary effect. Combustion likewise, less damage scale, increased Endurance cost, increased recharge time. It appears to have previously had more damage (due to Fire secondary effect) and less End cost (maybe due to it's long DoT duration) than it does now. -
Quote:Actually, Domination, Defiance and Gauntlet are all built by using either both the Primary and Secondary, or if necessary just the Secondary, and I don't see why, if you were to have Vigilance built actively, the blasts wouldn't be included as well.A nice idea in general however someone like the FF defender.. once the bubbles are out how do they build their Vigliance bar ???
I personally have recommended this before, as like Gauntlet, it would give Defenders a very good reason to use their Secondary. They are not only blasting, but they are doing a better job of defending the team. And instead of Vigilance just giving FF Defenders more End that they can really do nothing with but blast or scatter the foes, they will be able to blast (or scatter foes, if that's what they want) to conserve powers for bubbles afterwards. More active Defenders, like TA or even Empathy, would just get Vigilance for being active.
Just a suggestion, though, and I'm still open for what the actual effect of Vigilance should be. There's plenty of room for better ideas. Such as, you could boost the Defender's damage if he uses defensive powers, and his resistance if he uses offensive powers. (With perhaps the End discount for attacks) That would naturally balance the Primaries that give more offense, compared to defense. -
Quote:That's probably the way they were thought up, but not really the way they are in practice. For one thing, there is only ~15% difference in their damage. If you were to compare them as a Primary to Secondary, supposedly 100% to 75%, then a Corruptor is 100%, and a Defender is 86.67%. Likewise, just like a Controller a Corruptor's buffs and debuffs are not 75% of a Defender's across the board, but 75%, 80% or 88% depending on the power.I've not played a Corruptor much (though my first character waaaaay back when I was on a free trial was a Corruptor), but they strike me as being much like a Defender, but reversed. That is, Defenders are more defensive, Corruptors are more offensive.
Thus, I would expect Defenders to have better defenses (personal and otherwise) while I would expect Corruptors to have higher offense.
Not saying this is the way it is, just that this is how it seems to me.
Scourge probably helps with the damage, but at the very least I'd say it's more like 80%/100% and 100%/80%. And as Defenders buff their damage, they get closer to Corruptors. So as I said, Corruptors start with more HP and damage, but Defenders catch up once they start using their offensive and defensive buffs.
In short, Corruptors aren't different from Defenders, just a little more consistent. They start off a little better, but once you've got buffs and debuffs going, it's about the same. And I'm guessing this is intentional, since as mentioned the devs have said they felt Defenders were balanced in the past. Instead of trying to mess with the formula, they just tweaked it a little, but left Corruptors performing about where Defenders were.
And in my own experience, I've found my Dark and Rad Corruptors don't really seem to behave all that differently from my Defenders. The attacks come sooner, which is great, and when I'm running low on End my higher damage does make it easier to do without the debuffs. On the other hand, Sonic I really noticed the additional damage, and although it was not as great as if I'd had more debuffs, it was better soloing than the Defender version. So you really feel the lack of damage on a Defender more than you feel the lack of defense on a Corruptor. Or that's my experience, anyway.
I have to admit that if Defenders are in need of a buff, Corruptors could use one as well. They are holding on, but when compared against Masterminds they're not anywhere close to damage specialists. They're not even really the ranged damage dealers compared to Dominators any more, either. (More like the role is split between the two ATs) -
Quote:Actually, that makes a lot of sense. The Sleep would be better for holding the foes still than the current Immobilize, and the Intangible would prevent the Sleep from being broken. If you make it, say, half and half, 15 sec Intangible followed by 15 sec Sleep, you could alter the description to say, "The foes will be out of phase with reality for 30 seconds, but after 15 seconds the rift will start to collapse, and if you attack they will be knocked back into normal space."OTOH, a 20 second Sleep effect where the targets are intangible for the first 15 seconds and the Sleep duration is enhanceable might do the trick. It's not a fundamental change to the power and it adds some actual utility to it. (Although I still wouldn't take it, Intangibility still sucks as an AoE game mechanic).
That way you basically have 15 seconds where your foes are Slept but you absolutely can't hit them, and then 15 seconds where you can pick them off one by one to wake them up. Even better if you could somehow shield targets from AoE splash damage (maybe a huge +Def to AoE?) so you have to target a foe explicitly to "knock him out of the rift".
Even 10/30 seconds would be acceptable, I think, without breaking the spirit of the Cottage Rule. -
Quote:It's the same as a fully slotted Scrapper or Brute compared to the defenses of a Tanker.I consider it to be way better when the fully slotted corruptor version is just a few percent away from the unslotted defender version.
I think we can say, though, that a Corruptor is supposed to be balanced defensively with a Defender, which is why it has more hit points, instead of less hit points like a Scrapper or Brute have compared to a Tanker. Likewise the Defender and Corruptor seem to be about balanced in damage, with the Corruptor having the higher base, but the Defender having the better buffs. IF the Defender has buffs. -
Quote:Electric has been nerfed in that its attacks do less damage per hit. (Than previously under permadom) It does have reduced Endurance cost, and its melee attacks, including Thunder Strike, recharge faster. It actually does more DPS than before, but less burst damage and less AoE. So in terms of raw damage, it's probably a nerf.So Ele did get hit. I had heard people talk about that, but they did not go into detail.
It's still an extremely good set, though. I feel like I'm doing way more damage than before, since I was never a permadom. It really depends on whether you are coming from that performance, or from permadom levels. -
The facts are, Energy Assault, Fire Assault and Psi Assault recieved much higher End costs due to their individual attacks doing more damage per hit. Psi Assault particularly got nerfed because Psi Shockwave was reduced considerably in power. To restore the End cost would mean reducing Energy Assault's damage, making it perform the way it used to under permadom, and would be impossible for Psi Assault. PSW is unlikely to be put back before pre-nerf levels, that's just not possible.
Elecrtic Assault actually uses much less End now that it did previously. My own Electric Dom pretty much doesn't use End any more, I have yet to reslot him for the new stats. My Fire Dom was never a permadom, so I don't see any disadvantages, all I am doing is better. I'm sorry that double and triple permadom was nerfed, but if I am doing as well as I am with just regular Domination, then any Dom should still be playable. The only reason for abandoning the character is you are disappointed at not doing so much better like you were previously. -
If you set up a keybind, not only does it make teleport easier to manage, but it makes it much less likely that you'll need Hover. I do have some characters that take it for concept reasons (they have the ability to fly, but teleport because it's faster) but as long as you can get the next teleport off in those three seconds, you won't fall out of the sky. And even if you do lag a bit, 90% of the time you teleport before you hit the ground anyway.
The Endurance Cost is a bigger issue, but you can either slot for End (so you don't run out) or Range (so you get to your destination before you run out) or even better, both. -
Quote:Not "way better", but about 27% resistance compared to 20%. This is in proportion to their base modifier for (personal) resistance, 100% for Defenders, 75% for Corruptors.Defenders already have epic armors that are way way better than the ones corruptors have.
Corruptors have more hit points, they have weaker defenses. Defenders have less hit points, they have stronger defenses. Seems like it's supposed to be in balance.
Interestingly, those same shields are exactly the same (where applicable, Dark Embrace, Charged Armor, the other shields are comparable) for Masterminds. They get better personal defense, even though their buff/debuff powers are weaker. -
Exemplared players will still recieve XP as normal, with the new system. So there will be no loss of XP. There may be an option to turn off XP, if you want to recieve influence instead, as in the old way. But you will not be forced to choose this option.
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Quote:Well, it was said that it was a melee-heavy set. That's likely to be a problem with AV's, unless you plan on darting in and out of range.This may be a silly question, but the set seems a little odd in the fact it only has two st ranged attacks. Couldn't that be problematic in tough fights or AV battles where you don't necessarily want to be in melee range? I ask out of ignorance since I've never been able to get a Dom past the 20s, so I don't know. (I suppose you could use Fissure for that, but that'd be an end sink, blowing an AoE (repeatedly) on a single target..)
I wasn't really aware of Fissure's Targetted AoE nature, though, that kind of suprised me. Maybe it's intended to be a compensation for its lack of other ranged attacks. High End cost, maybe, but the truth is I regularly use AoEs on single targets. I slot them for End because of that.
The Primary could also take up some of the slack, possibly even Lift, Propel, or Levitate.
Definately makes me wonder, though. What would an Earth based Sniper attack even look like, or would such a thing even exist?(Ice has no Sniper, so it's not like they're required)
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Quote:Personally I would say that Masterminds are just as powerful compared to the other ATs in the game as Controllers are. Like Controllers, they are able to overcome their base damage and damage caps through the application of additional damage than a Defender doesn't get access to. So if we are limiting the comparison to ATs with buff/debuff attributes, then MMs and Controllers seem to be the standard to which we are trying to balance.You do realize that you are ignoring the possibility that Defender could actually be more in balance with the other ATs that you're not looking at than the Controllers. And, if that is so, then Controllers would, indeed, need to be tweaked a bit instead of Defenders. Balance is funny that way.
Corruptors are in many ways bound by the same limitations as Defenders. They do not have problems with Force Field having no damage boost because they do not have Force Field, but I expect this to become a more prominent issue with Proliferation. They also do not have problems with Empathy having no damage boost because they do not have Empathy, and the Set they get to replace it DOES have damage boosts.
Still, there are team-oriented sets that Corruptors get access to, such as /Thermal, /Cold and /Sonic, which do not perform solo to the same level as /Rad, and /Kin. In this, they are similar to Defenders, and need much the same closer look. It is noted that in Going Rogue Defenders will have to compete with Corruptors, but it is also true that in Going Rogue Corruptors will have to compete with Controllers. And Corruptors do NOT have better buff/debuff powers than Controllers. (in fact, in many ways Controllers are stronger with the same Secondary, as they get better results with the Set's control powers)
This is not to say that Containment is not like trying to kill gnats with a shotgun, and it could not use to be more concentrated in the area in which it is trying to be of help. That's not necessarily nerfing Controllers to help Defenders, though. And thus probably not relevant to this particular discussion. -
It's all about the sound bite.
Does sound nice for those who wanted gems or crystals for Ice Armor. Then again, they'll have to take Stone Armor, not Ice. -
Quote:Well, according to the devs they didn't want to use the Propel animation because it's already known to be a problem because of its cast time. Still, it seems to me like the Legacy Chain and Circle Earth Casters have different animation speeds with the different and smaller versions of their rock throwing attack. Stone Spears isn't that bad, though, and maybe we will get the "fling pebble" animation eventually in another Set.I'll admit that I'm a tad, just a TAD, mind you, disappointed in Stone Spears. I hope they change its animation, or that of Fissure, so we don't get two of the same foot stomping animations (three if you take Earth Control for thematic synergy). A little variety while I'm beating the daylights outta people would be nice.
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Quote:Well, considering that it probably still going around that the End cost increase was to balance the increased base damage, and the fact that Psi Assault (which was essentially the only Dom set with massive AoE damage) has been intentionally and obviously nerfed, it is still possible that people buy into the claim that this is a nerf.Oh no dominators have higher base damage now and gain more from external damage buffs and IO's. Pleas fix this it's terrible.
/sarcasm off
The truth is, though, that the increased End cost and recharge is only for those sets that have gotten more powerful attacks, or the two PBAoEs that got greater radius. Outside of Psi Shockwave, Flares, and Combustion, all the attacks were made stronger in some areas and weaker in others, but they are still doing about the same damage in the long run. Total Focus takes longer to recharge now and costs more End, for instance, but it should do a lot more damage each time it does hit. -
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Quote:This is not due to no damage buff, you HAVE the damage buff you used to have with Domination ALL THE TIME. This is due to Dominators having few AoE attacks, and to an extent the increased recharge on those AoE attacks. Not all AoEs got increased recharge, though, Thunder Strike actually can be used more often now. Whirling Hands and Ice Sword Circle take longer to recharge now, but they have a much larger radius of effect.My 2 main issue's with Dom's are...
1.) The complete lack of AOE DMG (Due to no dmg buff, and increased recharge)
Quote:1.) Either add a smaller dmg buff with domination, or Add a containment aspect to it while it is up. Similar to controlers. Maybe instead of doing double damage it could be half on top of what is being done.
Quote:2.) Decrease the end costs of the powers back to pre i15
The other sets (except for Fire) have always had those higher End costs. Use the same strategies you would use for them. Fire, well, Flares and Combusion still have had their excess Fire damage removed, and it seems as if it will stay that way. -
Quote:The scaling of Enhancement strength to level is supposed to emulate this. In short, they have recorded what levels you got your powers at, but they can't know what levels you got each slot at. (So when you respec you can actually just pick slots in any order) When you go down to level 10, your Enhancements go down to like 6%, so even fully slotted you won't be any stronger than a normally slotted character of that level.3) This one I'm not so sure about, but it popped into my head and could be interesting...keep all the powers, lose all the enhancement slots that you would have down to the exemplared level. People could keep powers but they won't be as strong? Not sure if it would work, but might help keep some resemblance of balance.
In fact, this is kind of an inconvenience when Exemplaring, because if you've slotted around having SO's for accuracy, when you exemp down you'll have less accuracy than someone of that level who has slotted one or two SOs or DOs. You'll probably have more damage, though.
Quote:4) Allow higher players to chose the level they exemplar down to. Example: lvl 35 mission holder. lvl 20& lvl 45 teammates. When getting into the mission, lvl 45 teammate gets pop up (or maybe a slider where exemp buttons are now on team window) allowing themselves to select a level between 35 and 40 to play at, defaulting on level 35 if they don't select to change it. Unexemplar button to quickly unexemplar if team is in trouble at sacrafice of rewards until reexemplaring. Rewards gained scaled as is now based on selected level. lvl 20 teammate gets sk'd to level 34. Allows teams to still function as is now for higher teammates. Allows people who out level mission holder to keep recently earned powers unless they go too high, in which to continue getting XP they would now anyways.
The idea here is to give the exemplar the powers for the level 5 (or 3) levels above him, but for the sake of XP he's still the same level as the mission holder. -
Quote:It would not be "no benefit", it would be half the benefit. It's not like "base damage" is 1/10 of your damage, it's 1/2 of it. And this is an issue Brutes already have, when they are at full Fury, they don't get as much benefit from team buffs.While that would solve the problem of Fire/Kins farming solo, it would also mess up controller values while teamed. (ie: no benefits from assault, AM, someone elses FS, etc.). It would also make using damage inspirations pointless except for boosting base damage.
Controllers used to get no benefit from buffs, though, in PvP back when Containment damage was unresistable. And this is the problem, if you make Containment constant so it can't be buffed, it also can't be debuffed. So Controllers will do a lot more damage in situations where the team's damage is debuffed. While this might be useful, it seems more like a function Defenders should have, not Controllers. And it wouldn't effect the extra damage dealt to a foe with a -Res debuff anyway.
As much as I hate the Critical mechanism, there really isn't any way to make it work any other way. -
Quote:Well, while the Dominator Secondaries are arguably stronger in principle than the Defender Secondaries, because they include melee attacks as well as ranged, and melee attacks generally deal greater damage, the fact is, both Dominator Secondaries and Defender Secondaries have the same purpose: they deal damage. Castle went out of his way to say that the concept behind the Dominator revamp would be that Dominators will have two "Primary level" attributes: control and damage.They did something similar with the Dominator secondaries (ranged/melee as opposed to melee/defense) and all the powers already exist and are seen together in all four of the melee ATs (tanks/scraps/brutes/stalkers).
Defenders, on the other hand, get one "Primary level" attribute, buffing and debuffing, and a secondary attribute of damage. A secondary attribute which is weaker than a Tanker's, and no stronger than a Controller's. When a Controller doesn't even HAVE damage as its secondary attribute. To argue that this is intended because a Defender is supposed to be a support class invalidates the purpose of its Secondary.
Note also that with the same purpose to their Secondaries, dealing damage, Dominators have a 0.90 to 1.05 modifier to their damage. The offensive buffs of a Defender must go very far to boost a modifier of 0.65 to this level. Even 0.85 (which is what I usually calculate as the average boosted damage for a Defender) would still be considered "secondary". So even with Buff/Debuff as their Primary instead of Control, they would still, on average, deal way less damage than a Dominator even with melee attacks. (Even if, as I would assume, the Defender melee damage would be raised to be greater than ranged damage, instead of less as it is now)