Jade_Dragon

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  1. I wouldn't mind the idea of an "Enhancement-spec", where I can just unlock all the Enhancements currently in my build and move them into my tray as I wish. Respecs to unlock Enhancements do kind of bug me, since I have so many macros. After doing the respec, I still have a lot of work to get everything back into place again.

    The problem would be how to implement it. I agree that you shouldn't be able to just remove Enhancements willy-nilly, but being able to only remove 10, and trade in the rest, unless you want to simply move them around, seems too far in the other direction. Especially with dual builds. Maybe just a flag, which says, "This Enhancement is locked", when you slot it, then the respec unlocks it for any successive move, until again slotted and locked.
  2. I think one thing that does need to be stickied is the information that it DOESN'T go away. In short, you never want a Crab/Bane dual build. You want either a Crab or a Bane/Huntsman, but once you go Crab, be sure that you never want to go back.

    As I said, my Crab's concept is pretty much built around her being a Crab. I have another character for the Bane.
  3. Jade_Dragon

    Cast times

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobertoLyon View Post
    Propel may be the slowest attack in the game but 0h-so-worth-it.
    And really, Total Focus is 3.3 sec, so it's not THAT much slower than the next fastest attack.

    Full Auto is 4 sec. Thunderous Blast is 3.7. (And that's what I would consider the slowest "nuke")
  4. Jade_Dragon

    PB vs WS

    Yep, the Peacebringer basically is constant and solid, being mainly a damage dealer. The Warshade feeds off his enemies, becoming much stronger against large groups of foes, but not having quite the same ability against smaller groups as the Peacebringer.

    This is not to say the PB solos better than the WS, but you would solo the PB at +2/x1, while you would solo the WS at +0/x3.

    The PB also tends to be more the specialist, better filling the blaster or tanker role as the team needs. His human form gets most of the damage. The WS's human form is more a controller and jack of all trades, while his forms are more general, having both high damage and defense. (When stacked with Mire/double Mire and Eclipse) This fits with the Inherent, the PB tends to complement the team, while the WS matches the team's strengths.

    And one of each is a very good idea.
  5. The problem is that the Mastermind henchmen share the same AI with your enemies. The behavior you want to see, a Bot staying in one place, waiting for a foe to come into range before he begins shooting at him, would be exploitable on a foe. You could stand out of range of his attacks, fire at his with your attacks that had greater range, and finish him off without him ever firing at you or moving in closer.

    Likewise, as mentioned, the AI is programmed for one or two members of a spawn to charge into melee to break up the ENEMY spawn. It makes combat both easier, since the foes aren't protecting each other, but also harder for squishies that have to evade the foe charging at them. If the devs made it so Bots didn't charge into melee, then ENEMIES would never charge into melee, and Blasters would never be at any threat.

    Now, it's more complicated than this, there is AI that "prefers Ranged" and AI that "prefers Melee". Bruisers, Ninjas, Necro, and melee-centric MOBs are all set to prefer Melee. MOBs with good ranged attacks and the henchmen I didn't mention previously prefer Ranged. Still, there's got to be that one Ranged fighter that likes to close to melee in each spawn, and if your henchmen didn't do that, your foes wouldn't either.

    One aspect that can cut down on this is putting henchmen in Bodyguard, as mentioned, they have a tendency to let their foe get out of range occasionally rather than run after them. Another is that henchmen that have run out of ranged attacks and have a melee attack recharged will often run into melee, so they can use that attack. If they don't HAVE a melee attack, or they have enough ranged attacks that they don't end up firing them all off and sitting doing nothing, they will not have this problem. This is why the Medic had his melee attack removed. Fully upgrading a henchman can help solve the problem since it usually gives him more ranged attacks.

    The other thing is that running into melee and giving chase to a runner, while it seems different, is somewhat the same. The chasing henchman is only trying to keep his foe in range. The best way to stop this is to be quick on the Passive key, to stop the chasing behavior and force him to come back. You can do this about running into melee, too, but usually you only have one henchman doing that, while if you've got a henchman chasing runners, they probably all are, either that or your other henchmen have given up and are waiting. In that case you can Passive Follow to call them back. Once everyone has dropped aggro, you can usually set back to Defensive.
  6. The biggest enemies to Masterminds are Kadabra Kill, and that *$#@*&% Calystix the Shaper. Actually, Kadabra is childsplay compared to Calystix's Slag Heaps.

    The best way I've found to get through them is to load up your henchmen with Lucks and hope for the best. Lowering your difficulty to -1 can help, too. This is actually one of the few times I will concentrate fire, you do want to take out the master first, his pets will fall when he does.

    Someone else may have a strategy for targetting the pets first, but nothing has worked for me but to brute force it. Lately, I've taken to dragging one of my other characters in on a second account to do the actual fighting.
  7. Jade_Dragon

    No to Taunt

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
    It grabs the attention of foes for 1 attack only and then the bots attacks pulls them away from you. If you drop caltrops they simply ignore your tauntage and run away. If you just stand there taunting you may get lucky enough to grab the attention of 1 foe during the battle and take 1 attack but the constant pet attacks pretty much cancel you out.
    1) Did you take Provoke, (which is AoE) not Challenge? (which is single target)

    2) Did you slot Provoke for Accuracy? You need fairly good accuracy to ensure you hit everything. At level 8 you won't really be able to slot well enough to make it hit 100% of the time.

    3) At very low level, the taunt effect will not last long. (I believe) It gets longer automatically as you level. You should know with the taunt effect is applied, because you will hear a "blap" noise, and radiating white lines appear around their head. I'm not sure if the lines continue to appear until the effect wears off.

    4) Taunting alone will not draw as much aggro as taunting in combination with attacks. Taunt the foes, and then open fire on them with your attacks and your debuff powers. Each attack you make during the taunt duration will multiply by the taunt to provide the aggro.

    5) If all else fails, you can slot for Taunt, however as mentioned it'll get stronger as you go up in level. So by the time you can spare the slots, you probably won't need them. Just make sure you have enough Accuracy, one or two slots should be adequate. Taunt slots might overcome the flee response from Caltrops, but I don't know, usually Flee takes the higher priority. I particularly hate when Warwolves get into a Caltrops patch, that's just asking for crazed wolfmen dashing around all over everywhere frantically.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona View Post
    At least a few, although Raven from the Teen Titans (with her healing empathy) is the closest to how CoH Empathy works - the others actually sense emotions rather than healing people.
    Yeah, the TV version of Raven seems more like Dark/Dark, but I would call the comic version Empathy.

    I would say Swamp Thing is Empathy as well. Plant/Empathy Controller perhaps.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by prev1 View Post
    Above all I was disputing the intial dev quote "Masterminds are the redside Tank". That statement was made prior* to BG mode being added. It was made on the basis of the go-to/aggressive ability. The idea was that MMs would send pets in first, group soon to follow.
    The initial idea was that the Masterminds would send in the henchmen as cannon fodder, and they would fall to the initial alpha strike. It didn't matter that henchmen "get toasted" because that was the whole POINT. The Mastermind would sacrifice his henchmen to keep his teammates from taking damage, and then resummon them and send them back in.

    In effect, the Mastermind was a Tanker with a built-in heal power, where he could lose a portion of his hit points, and then resummon them.

    This didn't work for two reasons:

    1) Once a henchman died, the aggro shifted back to the team. So while the henchmen were useful to take the alpha strike, their ability to hold aggro during the fight was nil, if the strategy of sacrificing them and resummoning them was used. The henchmen could never really pull aggro back off a teammate that already had it, and so the meatshield strategy failed once fighting began.

    2) Most Masterminds refused to use the sacrifice strategy, either because it took too long and too much energy to reupgrade them all, or because defeat was taken more seriously by the players than by the devs. An alternative support strategy, where the Boss and Lieutenant level henchmen are supported by the Mastermind and hold aggro was found to be superior to the alpha strike strategy. Unfortunately, this still failed quite often because the henchmen needed to take the alpha strike to hold aggro, but could not always survive it.

    BTW, I should add in case people are saying, "Well, that obviously would never have worked, the devs were not serious about MMs tanking" that when Tankers first came out, they were intended to hold aggro WITH THEIR DAMAGE AND A SINGLE TARGET *CONFRONT*. Yes, Confront, although it was called Taunt at the time. Tankers had to go to Provoke in the Power Pool to, you know, actually tank. It took Gauntlet and the Global Defense Nerf to change Tankers from indestructable meatsheilds that couldn't actually hold aggro (i.e., Masterminds) into what they are now.
  10. The basic thing to remember is that stealth and aggro are not diametrically opposed. What stealth does is reduce your chance to get aggro in the first place. Once you have aggro, however, stealth is no longer applicable to the battle. This is true for a Stalker as well as a Tanker, sure a Stalker's stealth is so good they can stand right in melee with a foe and not be seen (and this is true only for Stalkers, and stealth + SS) but once he makes that attack, his foe can see him and outside of Placate there's nothing he can do to lose aggro.

    I actually came up with the concept of a stealthy Tanker prior to Dark, and played a Stone/Axe Tanker with the Stealth power. The basic idea was that I could approach the enemy spawn, getting very close to melee, and avoiding ranged counterfire until I was almost right on top of them. I did have to be careful to warn my teammates not to attack until I made my move, as otherwise they'd be a lot more visible than me. Once the fight began, though, anything I aggroed stayed aggroed on me. The same has proved true with my Dark/Dual Blades.

    Even if it weren't for the stealth, CoD provides Immobilize protection, enhanced Perception, and Defense that does not suppress. Sure, it's only 5%, and there are better places to put slots, but as long as your teammates understand the strategy of letting the Tanker grab aggro before opening fire, you're not going to be penalized for keeping it up.

    The only argument I ever had against it, that it makes your character totally invisible, can be changed at the Tailor.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
    Because its interesting and different. Variety, people, is the spice of life. My original draw to this game was how different all the ATs were, back when controllers had massive control and no real damage to speak of pre-32 (before containment). It gave a whole different feel to the game than playing a blaster or defender. I want to see more of that, more variety. I want to see more innovation.
    I don't think innovation and variety mean what you think they do. You're asking for more specialization, not less.

    Controllers are MORE flexible now. They are better able to handle the situation when a team does not consist of the "Tank/Healer/Nuker" triad.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    No one is meant to be literally the tanker on the red side. The red side was explicitly designed to not line up one for one. The devs have said that the "meatshield" role was primarily the mastermind role, because they are the ones with the big bags of health (split up into lots of pieces).
    Also, the original concept was not for the MASTERMIND to take all the aggo, but his henchmen. If henchmen fail at this, it is because their Threat modifier is too low, and they have no inherent Taunt. It's my experience, though, that henchmen DO have a better ability to hold aggro than most squishies, and they have the Threat modifier to do this. In the absense of Taunt, they hold aggro about as well as a Scrapper, although of course their lower damage does make this somewhat weak. Once you have aggro, though, it becomes harder to pull it off, which is why MMs are better at taking aggro in the first place than pulling it back off a teammate.

    Really, a henchman trying to grab aggro like a Tanker would never survive the effort. In order to succeed, there has to be some mechanism for the henchmen to divide the aggro between themselves. This really never worked as well as the devs planned, thus Bodyguard was introduced to FORCE the division of aggro. All the Mastermind has to do is ensure that he has the aggro himself, and the damage is automatically divided amongst his henchmen. No mechanism was build into the Primary or Secondary to allow this, as the concept wasn't developed until after release, but as long as Provoke exists in the Power Pool (and MMs have a pretty high Threat rating themselves) the tool is at least available.

    I personally would like to see Taunt added to all Mastermind attacks, with a very low value, at least low enough that it has no actual effect. Then, if you slot Taunt, that value is raised enough to actually grab aggro. I think that would be an effective way to increase the aggro handling capabilities of a Mastermind, and give them a good reason to take their attacks. The need to slot for Taunt, though, would keep those who just want to use the attacks for show from getting overwhelmed using them.

    That's not really on topic, though.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Exxar View Post
    Actually, they can more than handle aggro.
    Well, a Dominator or even a Blaster can handle controlled amounts of aggro, but not reliably. If a hold misses or even if there are enough foes that you have to constantly shift target to keep on top of them, the situation can get away from you quickly. It's then up to other members of the team to pick up the slack.

    If you don't have anyone else, then you've got to be more careful about how many foes you engage at one time. The Dominator can pull foes off and try to help manage aggro, but the Brute may have to keep an eye out for him in case there's a run of back luck.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet View Post
    [Steamy Mist, Shadow Fall] And Arctic Fog.
    Note these Resistances are not Smashing/Lethal, but Fire/Cold/Energy, for Steamy Mist and Arctic Fog, and Energy/Negative Energy, for Dark Miasma. They can still be quite useful, but only against specific enemies. (CoT for Dark Miasma, for instance) They also protect against different status effects, Confuse, Fear and Slow respectively.
  15. Jade_Dragon

    Reflection

    Well, Kheldians you don't really have the "big picture" until you unlock Dwarf Form at 20, so to me switching to Crab/Bane/Night Widow/Fortunata at 24 made perfect sense. Maybe it could have been 20 instead, but I think even as low as 16 wouldn't really do it.

    Plus there's the fact that with two builds you can do a lesser version of the Kheldian thing and switch between them. Well, you're stuck with the backpack, but you can switch.

    I'm still trying to figure out why SoA get Patron Powers and not additional powers in the Primary/Secondary. Although I guess they've got to have some reward for the Patron Arcs.
  16. Jade_Dragon

    Voltaic Sentinel

    I believe the answer is:

    1) No

    2) No

    2 MAY be yes, but I don't believe so. It would be kind of annoying to hit Build Up every time you cast VS. And if Build Up effected VS, then any self buff proc of the like would as well, and vice versa.
  17. Jade_Dragon

    WHY dark/?

    I certainly don't hate my Dark/, I love it. I love the idea of sneaking around and being stealthy on a Tanker, and I love the idea of being beaten on for a while, and then draining my foes to get back to full health so they have to start all over.

    I've never played a /Dark Scrapper, so maybe I can't compare how they feel to one another, but honestly, if it's that Dark/ has a Scrapper-like feel, I'm fine with that. I still have Gauntlet pulling everything to me, and the damage isn't so bad that I can't survive long enough to use it. Then again, I'm Dark/DB, and it's possible the stacking of Weaken helps Dark's (low) Def and Res.

    And I agree with Herclea about being able to make my character visible, although that was more a cosmetic issue. It didn't stop me from playing him, just makes me happier now.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Westley View Post
    Just so long as we're clear that you're using a different definition than I am of the word "ignoring".
    Hmmm... I don't know if I would call slotting for the secondary effect instead of the damage "ignoring", but I'm not sure I could say it is providing the same benefit overall to the slots. That would be roughly equivalent to slotting Tesla Cage or Cobra Strike for damage. While it would certainly result in an increase, I'm not sure it is the most efficient increase available for that given slot.

    I suppose it would depend on the secondary effect, however, and the intended benefit. I suppose Sonic's -Res would be a great thing to slot if it could be slotted. YMMV, I guess.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
    Brutes do not. The mastermind AT was the intended to be the redside tanks but have no way to control aggro like a tank. So this "role" was passed onto the next logical choice...Brutes.
    Ah, but see, that's it. Brutes are intended to CONTROL aggro. Not TAKE it. There's a subtle difference, just like the difference between being able to TAKE damage, like a Mastermind, but not hold aggro. A Brute doesn't hold aggro to protect his team, he holds it to increase his Fury.

    If you are playing a Brute well, then the foes that are the REAL threats, the ones that really can kill your allies, are focused on you. The lesser foes, the ones your allies can handle, they're the ones you usually want to let slip by. The Brute, like the Scrapper, is a Boss killer. He's also a Boss aggroer.

    More importantly, it's just as possible to create a Brute that can't tank as it is to create a Mastermind that can. It's just a matter of what powers you take. The role goes to whoever is designed to take it. It's not really innate to either AT, it's just a potential for both.
  20. I have a Scrapper that I play as a dedicated tank role, she constantly taunts and keeps foes on her, and has both Confront and Provoke, so she can main tank or off tank depending on whether a "true" Tanker is available. She's built for that, and usually needs a teammate backing her up to take that much damage for a full team, but that's the choice I made about her build. I certainly don't look down on Scrappers that didn't build for tanking, or aren't able to.

    I keep saying that the Brute is like the Scrapper on blue side, it is not DEDICATED to tanking, but it is able to if it is built for that role. In fact, it should be better at it than the Scrapper. That doesn't mean that it's specialized like the Tanker is, though, the Brute is a damage dealer, and that's its role on the team, just like a Scrapper. The Stalker is the specialist on the red side.

    If you want to build for offense, that's your choice. If there is another tank available on the team, then that role is covered, and you can offtank. If there is not, then your team needs to be prepared for that, being willing to back you up to help you survive the aggro you gain, and watching their own aggro. If you cannot survive the aggro you are pulling and someone else is pulling aggro off of you, then that is a MUCH better thing than you falling, and the aggro you DO have getting dumped onto the rest of the team. That's a team wipe in the making.

    That said, if your teammate was a Dominator, there's not much he can do to handle his aggro. If he's an offensive Corruptor, or has limited self support powers, he can have trouble with that, too. In that case, the best thing you might have done is discuss with a Mastermind or another more defensive Corruptor on the team how he could back you up and pull some of the aggro off you.

    In fact, I've often said a Mastermind is the best teammate a Brute has. The MM is the other redside AT that is supposed to tank for the team, only while the Brute can hold the aggro very well but can't take the damage like a Tanker, the MM can take loads of damage but can't hold aggro. It can help you to grab the aggro of the center of a group, and let an MM's henchmen grab some foes at the edges of the fight. That way neither of the two of you get overwhelmed, and you can both tank for the team. And the MM can heal and buff you with his Secondary.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
    Isn't it amazing how quickly this turned into an argument on semantics when the exact criteria listed for what "Tanking" meant in regards to the thread is listed in the OP? Essentially it means, "ability to herd".
    Well, "ability to herd" does not necessarily equate to "ability to HOLD aggro." A Mastermind can be VERY good at herding, as several videos I have seen can testify to. As long as no one else fires, any amount of aggro is good enough. So then it comes down to being able to take the damage.

    I can see that the OP had a specific tactic in mind, but that doesn't mean the discussion can't turn to more general issues in regards to tanking.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Westley View Post
    In my opinion, a Defender should slot for damage in a "solo" build, and slot for the secondary effect in a "team" build.
    I personally prefer to concentrate my attacks. On a Team build I will choose attacks that have the most powerful Secondary effects, like Irradiate, which has the highest magnitude of -Def debuff, and those that effect the most targets, like say Electron Haze. I will then take less attacks overall than my solo build, skipping several of my single target attacks.

    With less slots, I can concentrate more of them on the fewer attacks, allowing both debuff and damage slotting. That seems like a better choice to me than not slotting for damage on more attacks.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
    My main argument with Fire_Minded's post was his assertion that all Defenders can tank (or even pseudo-tank) and that Blasters have no survivability.
    Well, one can say that the survivability of a Blaster is less than that of a Defender. Even given a Blaster's control capabilities, Defenders often have control capabilities as well, and they have more direct forms of mitigation. (Or recuperation, if you don't consider healing to be mitigation)

    Blaster control powers seem to be single target, and more mitigation oriented. Defender control powers are usually more AoE oriented, and do not provide as much mitigation. However, they do allow greater positional control, which helps keep foes out of melee.

    The extremes, that robustness means tanking, and that lack of robustness means fragility, is certainly not as true. There are Blasters that are survivable, and Defenders that can't tank. But I would say even the Defender that can't tank will have more robustness and less damage than the Blaster that can survive through controls or slows. That's really innate to the concept.

    A Corruptor, on the other hand, might be able to exceed the damage of a more defensively built Blaster. Not really sure, but that would make sense to me. Also, I'm not even trying to make a comparison where a large team is involved. (A large team of Defenders would obviously greatly outperform the standard damage of a Blaster, but then the same Blaster on a team of Defenders would gain the same benefits from them as well)
  24. IMHO, the devs didn't really implement travel power suppression to prevent jousting per se, but to prevent a server exploit that would increase the safety of jousting to complete invulnerability. In short, you could zoom up to a foe, make an attack, and then move out of hand to hand range before the server even recognized that you were IN melee. Not only would you never be attacked, you never could be attacked, because in effect you were using melee attacks at range.

    Suppression means that you have to remain in range long enough for the server to register that you ARE in range, and either process an AI attack, or allow a player with an attack queued up to get it off. If you attack in melee, your opponent gets an attack in melee.

    Conceptually speaking, I agree with the last poster. Usually when you see a character with super speed attack someone, he zips into melee, and then stops for a second while he punches him. If he ducks the return punch, it is his REFLEXES, not his SPEED that allows him to do that. So Super Speed alone doesn't allow you to dodge blows, that's Super Reflexes, the Defense Set. So there's that second before you flash away again where you can be counterattacked. (some other game systems give you an "attack of opportunity", where you can attack out of order when attacked)

    And I'll add that "jousting" and "kiting" are somewhat different, as the former usually refers to melee attacks, while the latter is ranged attacks. The principle is the same, though, that you remain out of range for your foe to attack, while in range to attack yourself. It would be possible to get the same effect with kiting without travel suppression, but it's a bit harder since you have to estimate more where your maximum range is. You could queue up a ranged attack, though, zip forward until it fires, and then immediately zip back before the server could update your position.
  25. Conceptually speaking, Claws/WP is the closest thing to Spines/Regen.

    I think Claws/Fire is what you're looking for, though, so carry on.