Jade_Dragon

Well, the problem is that while at high level, that Scrapper might be shrugging off the ranged attacks like they're nothing, and having trouble facing the greater damage of the melee attacks, the squishies are being hit by the ranged attacks and taking just as much damage as the Scrapper in melee. After all, the squishy doesn't have that much protection.

So if the squishy is taking 400 damage per hit at range and 4000 damage per hit in melee, it doesn't make that much difference. You're talking about the difference between dying in one hit, or dying in two or three hits. Unless you've got the Defense to keep those hits from coming close together, which is gonna take some IO slotting, you're still gonna die. And you might still die of a (un)lucky streak anyway.

Really, the "range is a defense" argument only applies to the "Tank Mages" of the game. Blasters and Dominators protect themselves from damage by either holding the foe, or killing it before it can kill you. And sometimes standing back and plinking from a distance can land you more damage than taking a chance and trying for a high damage melee attack.

Energy Transfer for Brutes and Stalkers are single target attacks. In short, Tankers have wierd attacks that are all AoEs even when they are not AoEs. Just check the Brute, Stalker or Scrapper version of the attack on whatever site you're using if you want to check what the EFFECT of the attack is going to be.

This actually came about with Gauntlet, but it's what makes Gauntlet work the way it does.

Similarly, I think Ablating Strike for Stalkers is an AoE so the Sweep combo can be an AoE knockback like it is for everyone else.

This is basically why you didn't see many people going around with a shield as their only "weapon". If you're going to take a big piece of metal and make a weapon out of it, you're going to a) sharpen it, b) mold it into a top heavy mass and conk someone with it, or c) shape it into a point and propel it into someone's body at high speed.

The whole, "shape a shield into a frisbee and throw it at people" gimmick is just that, a gimmick. Marvel Comics' gimmick. Although superheroes with shields are rare, most of them just use them as that, a shield. And even Captain America doesn't really use his shield for the majority of his attacks, he punches and kicks just like everyone else.

Since Shield Defense is a high offense set as it is, you could say that the offensive bonuses from Against All Odds are due to the fact that you've got a shield behind your punches and body slams. The animations aren't exactly there, but the engine can't really support a body slam anyway. Shield Charge is the closest the game could come.

I will add that that link has somewhat of a PvP focus and is set after CoV came out, and thus doesn't really reflect the "Tank Mage" concerns of the early CoH development. In the terms he is talking about, most COH ATs are Tank Mages, and certainly Defenders are. However, Tankers are no so crippled in damage output that they can't solo, Scrappers are not Rogues, with no effective defense, Blasters have SOME damage mitigation (even if it was mainly control powers at release) and so on.

My main point, though, is that originally the concept of the "Tank Mage" revolved around soloing, since if you were a tank and a mage at the same time you didn't need a team. By his own admission, Defenders can't do these things unless you group them in a team where their buff/debuffs stack. So in essense, the devs got around the Tank Mage problem by radically weakening the Tank Mage Archetype (the Defender) but allowing them to support each other to become a team of Tank Mages.

Putting it another way, the traditional Tank Mage is Ranged/Defense, but the non-EAT equivalent here, Ranged/Buff-Debuff only allows you to apply the Defense to someone else. The stacking of powerful buffs was also very much unique to CoH, and isn't really that prevalent on other MMOs. Neither a Tank nor a Mage is really a Buffer. (Usually, the Healer fills that role, with that very limited type of buffing, heals)

The original concept of the Tank Mage revolved around the idea that if you could kite, keeping foes out of melee range, while still having the defenses of a meleer; you could avoid any counterattack, while the few times you blundered into melee range would not last long enough to be a threat. The phrase once used in the development of this game was "kite with impunity". On other words, the traditional Tank Mage uses range to make itself effectively immune to damage.

The reason such a combination was effective was because, in MMOs which relied on forced teaming, such a combination could solo. A team needed a "tank" and a "mage", and if you were both you obviously didn't need the team.

In modern MMOs, such as this one, there is a higher number of ranged attacks wielded by MOBs, and they are more effective as well. Thus, staying out of melee becomes less of an issue for survivability. Thus, the "Tank Mage" has evolved to encompass ANY combination of high damage and high survivability, whether in melee or not. In the traditional sense, due to intentional design by the devs, only the EATs are Tank Mages, but in the modern sense, every one of the ATs, given the proper circumstances, could be described that way. There is no "class" in this game that lacks either the damage or the survivability to progress without having to rely on a team.

In truth, ATs with high damage have lower defense, and ATs with high defense have low damage. ATs that are capable of both damage and defense, like Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors, MMs, Kheldians and SoA, usually are not equal to either the "pure" Blasters or Tankers in their damage output or defense. So unless you want to use the term in regards to a particular AT being "overpowered", I would simply call a Tank Mage a hybrid of Ranged and Defense which is good at both, but not superior at either.

Honestly, while SoA are better "Tank Mages" overall than Kheldians, Kheldians have the additional ability to shift into a specialized Tank or Mage form on the fly. I agree this would appear to be a handicap to the pure "Human Form" Kheldians, but that is the way the AT is designed. And Kheldians do have less of a team support role, and more one of direct damage.

This is likely the most detailed description of the problem. It was not one thing, but a combination of things. I think the -Recharge is more of an issue than you are giving it credit for, though. Maybe not for each of the Power Sets separately, but stack the two together, and you have a powerful AoE slow which is reducing the Recharge of all foes, and stacking single target -Recharge on whoever you are are hitting.

Control powers can be compensated for, as noted for Dark Armor. Lack of damage is certainly a problem, but it would not be a problem IF the set had high Fury generation. Dark has -Acc, which as a damage mitigation tool does not reduce Fury. So with all the same tools for both controls and damage mitiigation, Ice/Ice has two factors reducing Fury generation while Dark/Dark has only one.

It's certainly possible that Ice/Ice would work fine under the current implementation of the game, but without actual testing of that, I wouldn't be 100% sure. And the only ones who can do testing of that assumption at this time are the devs. I'm sure they're not putting off the Proliferation because they don't want to, but merely because so far there have been possibilities that would take less investigation and testing to ensure they are not still facing problems in implementation.

And I would say in general that is the best answer to the OP's question. There may be no "good reason" those Power Sets aren't available to all ATs. Merely, those examples are problematic of issues involving their porting, and up until now there have been less problematic choices.

Also, check out this list of "Why don't X get Y?". It is as far as I know complete. (And not yet obsolete, although Electric Control is apparently coming "soon")

I would call this the difference between a Dominator and Controller. While Controller damage can be pretty impressive, that's with holds and buff/debuff powers to back it up and provide survival time to deal the damage. A Dominator, like a Blaster, concentrates on taking out foes as fast as possible. The damage is not ultra extraordinary, (like a Blaster) but it is adequate.

Another difference between Dominators and Controllers is that unless you build a Scraptroller, or choose one of the ranged-centric Dom Secondaries, you will usually find the Dom closing to melee a lot more often than the Controller. The Dom can beat the Controller for the damage (and maybe even a Corruptor) but he's got to close to melee to do it.

Comparing programming to any other architectural discipline in the world, it would be basically akin to assembling a house by first constructing the wood -- atom by atom. You then must design exactly how each nail will interact with the wood, how a saw will cut it, and how electrical outlets will be recessed into it and the wires strung around it. You must then design all the laws of physics that allow electrons to flow, construct the plastic shells around the wiring, and account for how the wires will be joined at splice points.

And that's just to start. Then you have to create drywall, concrete, lamps, fixtures, plumbing, gas piping, furniture, appliances, etc., etc., etc.

In general, a Blaster does not necessarily do more damage with his melee attacks. Rather, it is more a case of having those extra attacks available, with high burst damage, which can be gotten off between the weaker blasts. As there are usually only two or three melee attacks available, you'll want to "fill in" with the blasts even in melee.

For ATs with nothing but melee attacks, like Scrappers, you might see that they have some advantages over ranged. The basic attacks, like the first two you get, are generally the same. They do, on average, 1.0 and 1.64 respectively. You generally have an AoE, which corresponds to a PBAoE for the meleer, a cone, which may or may not correspond to a short cone attack, and some sort of control power or debuff.

It's the most powerful two attacks that are the difference, though. A Blaster's most powerful attacks are the Burst, which has a restricted range, and a Sniper, which has a very long cast time. By contrast, a meleer usually has a high damage attack, which does way more damage than a Burst attack, and takes no more extra time than a regular attack. Blasters often get this attack (such as Total Focus, or Thunder Strike) plus they get other melee attacks which are more like the heavier attacks for the meleer. That is, a Blaster's Energy Punch is more like a Brute/Tanker's Bonesmasher, and a Blaster's Bonesmasher is somewhere between Bonesmasher and Total Focus for the Brute/Tanker.

Finally, if you have an attack which does a whole lot of damage, like Total Focus, it also takes a long time to recharge. So its damage over time, when you calculate that in terms of recharge, is pretty much equal to every other attack. Power Bolt does way less damage than Power Burst, but it can be fired much more often. If you have an attack that puts out a whole lot of burst damage in a small animation time, though, you can go to the next attack right away and put out even more damage. So usually the amount of damage you can put out in the CAST TIME is considered more important than the RECHARGE TIME.

Again, Blaster melee attacks do more damage than the meleer equivalents in the same amount of time. And they put out more damage than the ranged attacks in the same amount of time. So even though you can't use them that often, when you do have them available you want to use them. That's why they're designed that way, not so you can use them constantly, but so you can use them quick and get back out of range.

I know that's a wall of text, but hopefully it was all helpful.

Amusing apocryphal story: Often I use Snipe in melee range because I have already used all my ranged attacks at range, and they have yet to recharge. I will hit my target with a hold, which buys me enough time to get off the Snipe, and fire it.

Being as I tend to use attacks as they come, though, that is not always the case, and I would not recommend it as the best use of DPS, or even the best use of the duration of the hold. I'm not even sure I can say that I'm remembering correctly that it's as useful as that. (And that's what "apocryphal" means. The More You Know. )

Honestly, I tend to use Snipes more often on Defenders, were I can be assured of getting good Def or -ToHit, which will keep it from being interrupted. I just thought I'd point out some of the ways that you can keep a Snipe from being interrupted if you want to use it.

I second this observation. It may have changed in I17, but the last time I did a respec, I know it was working.

[edit] Of course, now that I have read the thread, this post basically says nothing, but there it is.

Defenders vs Corruptors is sort of a Tortoise vs Hare comparison. Corruptors get the greater damage to start with, and get a high burst damage at the end of the fight with their Inherent. However, power per power Defenders get higher values for their buffs and debuffs. Thus, IF the Defender can buff his damage or debuff his foe's Resistance to the damage, his damage overtakes the Corruptor's as the buff/debuffs build up and stack.

I'd also like to add that while the Defender gets the better numbers for Defense, Resistance, and Damage/To Hit debuffs, the Corruptor not only gets Scorpion Shield, but higher Hit Points as well. So again, the Corruptor has the advantage in the absense of buffs, but once the Defender starts applying them, he closes the gap to be closer to equal.

The solo bonus helps the Defender equalize his stats when he doesn't have a lot of teammates to help him, or lots of foes to maximize his buffs. It also really helps those Defenders that don't have a damage boosting power to start with. Even so, the numbers seem to show that there's really not that much difference. Defenders just tend to take a little longer to get to the maximum damage, and tend to be more slow and consistent over time.

I read this, and I see "Propel", and I am happy.

My answer to this has always been that no one is saying Kheldians shouldn't have an established color scheme to their powers, but they do not have to all be EXACTLY the same shade of that color. After all, all human beings do not have exactly the same skin tone. So while Peacebringers are bright and blue, and Warshades are dark and purple, the exact frequency of their energy may vary from individual to individual.

The Ice Sets and Stone sets have ranges of colors that fit the theme of those sets, so Peacebringers and Warshades could have their own palletes, too. I'd like to see more colors than just blue and purple, maybe greens and yellows for Peacebringers and reds and deep blues for Warshades, but still limited to light shades and dark shades respectively.

And why can't there be a bright pink Peacebringer?

That's the bigger issue. Allow the color customization without the forms, and it will stand out even more than Granite Armor.

I do wish there was some way around that, I'm sure it would make people happy for Granite as well.

While I would honestly love to see the Tesla Cages graphic, the power itself is too weak for a Controller. Shocking Bolt is probably closer to the actual attributes.

That's probably obvious, though.

I did this. Of course, Rest had a MUCH longer recharge back then than it does now, and I built my concept around it, my character wasn't actually Resting, he had to stop to draw energy out of the air around him to recharge his "batteries" after every combat.

The problem was, while I could get the recharge down, the amount of time the power actually took to work could not be changed. The End rate cannot really be enhanced, it's already close to the cap, and the HP regen rate caps with only one Heal Enhancement. And the cast time was a significant part of the time as well. When the Recharge ended up being reduced to about where I had it from slotting, I gave up on the concept.

I currently keep one Recharge and one Heal in it, which is probably one more slot than everyone else uses.

I actually have to agree. You know there's been talk about a power that can pull foes to you in this game before.