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The only time I ever hesitate to run into a spawn with my Tanker is when I am the off tank. If there is another tank who is better than I am, I let him lead.
That MIGHT be a Scrapper, as I tend towards Scranker builds. But most of the time it isn't. And when that happens, I just charge in and start beating up punks.If I die, well, I'm still the best tank for the situation, and it's up to the team to either back me up or find a tank they don't have to back up.
Honestly, there are times when I need to wait to get back up to strength, or just reorient myself after a fight. If that's the problem, then maybe it's best to wait for the Tanker to lead. But if the Tanker is hesitant to do what he is built for and added to the team for, then that's just a bad player. -
Quote:Well, Warshades, Peacebringers and Brutes have single target Gauntlet, but can only get AoE Gauntlet from AoE attacks -- and Warshades don't even get that, with Mire. So Antagonize is really necessary for Kheldians to tank in Dwarf form since it serves the purpose of their Taunt aura. Brutes get Taunt auras and at least a few AoE attacks they can use to draw aggro, but they certainly don't get Gauntlet to the extent a Tanker does anyway.My Warshade slotted up Dwarf Antagonize for much the same reasons. I don't want to be lumbering around chasing things thank you. I just want them up close so they can be Mired to death.
On Brutes the only one I took it with was my Dark/WP because people were stealing my lovely aggro and hence my Fury. He wants things beside him to help make him immortal. My Claws/Elec has plenty of fury generation ability and the ability to attack from range anyway, so no need for it. My Stone/Fire has Fault up every 12 seconds or so and an excellent damage aura.
Does a Tanker need Taunt? Well, does a Tanker need Gauntlet, a Taunt aura, and Taunt Enhancements slotted in his powers? No, probably not ALL of that. But you certainly need SOME of that. Certainly MORE THAN ONE of that. But you can get by with only three of the four, or even two of the four. And Gauntlet is built in, and it's unlikely that you'll skip your Taunt aura powers. So to me it comes down to "should I either take Taunt or slot my attacks for Taunt?" Well, yeah, but maybe not. It certainly won't hurt. -
Dive into the ground is a good option. However, one I've wanted for a while is "walk into a rest room". There would have to be one nearby to walk into, but there is at least one in every monorail building.
Perhaps a more generically applicable one would be for you to walk into the nearest door and back out. Unfortunately, I doubt even that would be workable with the current game engine. So my suggestion would be to have the "walk into and out of the door" part, but without the actual door. You'd have to position yourself in front of a door to make it work, but you have to do that to sit in a chair, so there you go.
Alternately, just doing the animation in front of a flat wall would be a great way to "fake" a phase shift power.
Or, if you want to be cartoony, have you draw the door on the wall, open it, and then step into it and out of it. -
Quote:Scrappers did not always have Critical, and in fact Critical was the first of the Inherents, it just was not called as such. Likewise, Tankers had a Gauntlet-like effect that multiplied the threat of the damage they did, but Gauntlet specifically expanded that effect to an AoE around the target. In other words, Tankers originally had the "pokevoke" that Brutes now have.The Tanks already had "Gauntlet" and the Scrappers already had the Critical Hits before Inherents every came out.
Around the time Gauntlet was developed, what later came to be Fury was discussed as an Inherent for Tankers. It turned out to be too powerful, and thus Brutes have lower HP and defenses than Tankers. (Although personally I think a lesser version of Fury wouldn't have been overpowered, perhaps giving around a 10% boost to damage, much as Tankers have now compared to at release)
Just to bring up memories of the "good old days", at release Tankers had a Taunt power that hit a single target, drew aggro with their attacks only on the target hit, and had about twice the defensive stats they currently do. Plus no ED, so twice that again if you six slotted. It was considered a necessity to take Provoke from the Power Pool in order to successfully tank.I'm honestly not sure about taunt auras, although I would guess they were there.
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An abandoned Kheldian backstory I used was based on my dog shapeshifter, Element Dog. I wondered if a Kheldian, in the absense of any sentient lifeform, would choose a less intelligent one. I explained it as a superhero who already had shapeshifting ability, who had chosen to become a host to a Kheldian, was critically wounded and on the verge of death. When he happened upon a collie wandering in an alley, he used his powers to merge with the collie, allowing the combined being to be a suitable host for the Kheldian.
My Nictus, for when Going Rogue comes out, is also a "Kheldian comes across a human and offers to merge with him" backstory. He was a Nictus, but like most Warshades, tired of the fighting and wanting to merge with a willing host. Unfortunately, what he took for an Earth warrior fighting against Devouring Earth was actually a Skulls Gravedigger working his way up the ranks in his gang. So his host's evil tendencies will turn him back towards the Nictus side.
The rest of my Kheldians aren't really Kheldians. -
I'll add that I have both a Stone and a Dark Tank -- and at one time they were the same character. My original concept was a tank who could shape rock to protect himself, but also hide in shadows and be stealthy. So I gave him Stealth from the Pool.
When Dark Armor came out, I split the concept in two, the Stone Tanker kept the ability to shape rock, while the Dark Tanker was the stealthy one. While I haven't reached Granite level, I do agree that with Rooted the lack of mobility is a factor. On the other hand, sometimes standing like a rock in the middle of a group is the best strategy, while at other times darting from one group to the next is the best.
Interestingly, when I had both Rooted and Stealth it was an effective combination if my teammates knew what to do. I walked into the group and unstealthed to pretty much "appear from nowhere" and grab aggro. I wouldn't aggro nearby groups since they couldn't see me, and as long as the team stayed back or I drew the group away they didn't see my teammates either. But every build has its situations when it shines, and other times when it just doesn't work so well.
Hopefully, that's all diplomatic enough.
Quote:Another point where, amusingly enough, Stealth came in handy for me. In fact, I had a keybind that toggled off Rooted, and on Stealth. Because that was a VERY common trick with me.I, for one, would be very hesitant to turn off my mez protection as a tank just to get around, but that's just me.
Of course, Stealth also slows you, for which reason I had Swift three slotted with Run Enhancement.
Also, I believe JusticeIsServed was pointing out that big numbers draw AoE aggro. (The mechanism isn't exactly clear, but attacking a Boss WILL get you aggro from the minions in his group) -
In short, Stalkers got raised so that the difference between their damage and hit points and those of Scrappers was about half of it was before. They lost the "Critical on Held or Slept" enemies, and got a random crit like Scrappers, but it increases the more allies are on your team. (With more allies as a distraction, you get more chances for an "attack of opportunity") Plus, if you Assassin Strike a target and don't kill it, everyone else around him loses some ability to hit, and may be Feared.
The above is totally unneeded since the links cover it, but I figured what the hey. -
Quote:As Dechs Kaison pointed out, this is more due to the starting point of a Brute when he is solo, compared to a Tanker. On a team, a Brute can reach the same caps as a Tanker. However, it is harder to reach those caps (since he starts further from them) and Granite particularly cuts into the damage the Brute usually relies on to make up the difference.I'm not sure if you've tried Granite Tank vs. a Granite Brute.. But my Granite brute is crap compared to the tank.. sure he can deal more damage, but unless it's smashing lethal damage.. forget about it.. the trade off for the speed and such does not put me anywhere near on par with a tank..
The Granite Brute may be the best Brute suited for tanking, but it is not the best Brute suited for bruting. And it may not even be the best tank, overall. Which is what I think Dechs was trying to say.
Quote:Further, unless it's changed, MM Pets have more aggro generation than any set villain side. I think the threat level pets are assessed at is only second to tanks.
The only part about an MM that Can't tank as well as it's a bit harder than it is with a tank to hold aggro..
An MM henchman is usually pretty good about keeping aggro off of non-Brute redside teammates for a short time, but it's sporatic. It helps to either go in first, or right after the Brute, so your team is pulling aggro off you, not the other way around. Beyond that, the Tankermind strategy is needed for "true" tanking.
Honestly, on a small team the MM is usually the best suited to hold aggro, while on a larger team the Brute is the better. -
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Well, Mass Confusion does have a lower chance to hit than Seeds, but has a greater range, and about the same area of effect. It also is a Psionic attack, which means it has no positional defense against it, while Seeds is AoE, with no typed.
I think the main thing is, though, Mind Control has Confuse in the same set, and as the devs have pointed out, they don't balance individual powers against individual powers. In the time that you can cast four Seeds of Confusion, you can cast one Mass Confusion and 30 Confuses. If Plant Controllers had to wait as long between recharges with Seeds, their ability to use the Confuse effect would be severely reduced. Whereas you could remove Mass Confusion entirely and Mind Controllers would still have Confuse. Which is in some ways more useful, since you get to choose the targets.
Add to that the ability to use it without alerting the foes, and I don't think Seeds is all that inconsistent. A Plant Controller can Confuse about twice as many foes as a Mind Controller (maximum of 64 in a 240s period, compared to 46) but the Mind Controller has more precise control over WHO he controls. And that's if you hit 16 different targets with every application of the AoE. I've found most people, myself included, prefer to keep Confuse to a minimum, so the occasional AoE, followed by keeping one foe locked down with the single target Confuse is more useful than just throwing them around willy-nilly.
YMMV, though, I guess. I suspect Plant Controllers, like Storm Defenders, live for the chaos. -
Quote:Well, as I said, the concept of Proliferation SHOULD eliminate the differentiation. That doesn't mean the devs won't make exceptions for individual Powers or Sets, though. I would prefer to see Stalkers get an earth-themed variation that replaces Granite Armor (and I don't see why you think Scrappers can't have it) but at the moment Stalkers can't get Shield either. So unless they get a special version later, there may still be some AT exclusions.I am cashing in my chips when stalkers and scrappers can roll stone armor.
Still, Stone Tankers are not the only "true" Tankers. -
I still use it, as it's helpful for getting odd combinations, like both +100% Recharge and +100% Damage on Follow Up.
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In short, any AT without any powers would not be that much different from another AT with no powers, but when you add powers, even passive ones, the ATs do have different modifiers that make those powers stronger.
So a Tanker will have higher defenses than a Blaster because 1) he will have access to more passive and toggle defenses and 2) those defenses will be stronger for the Tanker.
Note that, for instance, if you compare a Tanker to a Defender, 2) would be the same, but 1) would be less. The Defender simply has less defenses that effect himself, even though those defenses WOULD be the same if he could get them. For a Scrapper or Brute, 1) would be the same, but 2) less. Plus, of course, the Defender, Scrapper and Brute would have lower HP. -
Proliferation should completely eliminate this. So as far as Power Sets are concerned, there should be no difference between Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers. Yet, there is no argument that Stalkers cannot tank as well as Tankers. It is not a matter of Power Sets, it is pool of hit points, and defensive capability.
Quote:Masterminds, like many ATs simply *can* tank if built and played a certain way.
Honestly, while I compared Masterminds to Defenders, they are actually more like Controllers without the controls. They have pets, which Controllers have, and powers they can use to buff those pets or their teammates. They're really more like Defenders with pets.
And while neither a Brute nor a Mastermind can cover both aspects of tanking as well as a Tanker, working together, they can. Probably better than two Tankers. -
Yeah, the Dom reputation for high AoE damage was due to PSW, and is no longer true. I never was true for the other Secondaries. Fire has some AoE, and Psionic Assault is still somewhat better than the norm, but you will never beat either a Corruptor at range or a Brute in melee for AoE damage.
Not sure if this is what you meant, but it is Controllers that do extra damage to targets they are holding. This makes a Controller's AoE damage pretty high, although they really lack the single target damage to match it, unless you invest heavily in Pool attacks.
Also, I like to think of Masterminds as doing large amounts of very low AoE damage. Although most folks tend to concentrate their fire, I have found that if you spread your henchmen out and let them pick their own targets, they tend to hit multiple targets at the same time, which is effectively AoE. It's just you have six henchmen firing six different single target attacks at (up to) six different foes. -
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Quote:You confused me, then I realized there's a typo. You meant the female is the fire demon.While the female ice demon is in normal form holding the guns, the pistols use cryo rounds (with blue laser sights) and she can use the Fire manipulation powers, including blazing aura and hot feet.
I like it, although the ice demons powers have to wait for level 40. -
Where will you give it to them? Add a sixth power to an Patron Pool? Do you plan to add a sixth power to all the other Patron Pools? You realize that you'll also have to add a sixth power to all the Hero Epic Pools as well, otherwise "the devs hate blueside".
In short, Physical Perfection was created specifically to pad out all Epic Pools to five powers. So you'll have to create a new Power to pad them all out to six powers. Obviously both sides will need to have that new power, so now you need to pad them all to seven powers. And of course the new powers you create will have to be put on both sides, so now they're all padded out to eight. And nine. And ten. And eleven... -
That's really been going on with Tankers and Scrappers since the beginning. Brutes are merely more robust that Scrappers, while being able to match their damage under the right circumstances. My take is that you'll pick a Tanker if you want to tank, a Scrapper if you want consistent high damage output, and a Brute if the Fury mechanic appeals to you.
I believe the devs mentioned Tankers might get a look if they turn out to be too overshadowed by the "hybrid", but I don't see anything more than a minor tweak to the Inherent. -
My thoughts exactly.
The point is a true one, though. There are plenty of animations and stances for weapons held in a single hand, or two weapons each held in a hand. There are no animations for two handed weapons, though. Except possibly the Stone Mallet.
Personally, I think the fastest way to get Staves out there is to implement a Bo Staves Power Set, which would have a small staff in each hand. If the animators want to get crafty, I would think they could make you fit the staves together into one for some of the attacks. The basic stance, though, would have to be with the two hands holding the separate pieces of the staff.
Of course, we have the Nemesis Staff and Blackwand that are held in the single hand (and wielded one handed) but that might look awkward for a whole power set. -
Defenders and Corruptors are the only ATs that are really close to one another. The idea that "Corruptors are like Defenders that have damage like Blasters" isn't really true, they have about 15% more damage than Defenders, but that hardly makes them Blasters.
The other amusing thing is that the CoH ATs are hybrids to begin with, so the CoV ATs are hybrids of hybrids.
This has been the way I have always described the Villain Archetypes:
Brutes have the role of Scrappers but play like Tankers
Stalkers have the role of Blasters but play like Scrappers
Dominators have the role of Controllers but play like Blasters
Masterminds have the role of Tankers but play like Defenders
Only Corruptors don't fit this sequence, they have the role of Defenders and play like what is referred to as an "Offender", or a Defender with a balance of offense and defense. No villain AT plays like either a Controller or a pure support Defender, as there are no pure support ATs villain side. -
I have a shapeshifter I came up with four takes on. The original character was a dog, named Element Dog, that had the ability to shape change, and thus could make himself as intelligent as he wanted to be, and give himself the ability to speak and so on. Along with my other main characters, I created him back when I was in high school. So I had the concept, and had to fit it to CoH. As well as being able to change into any material or animal, he could also absorb matter to make himself grow, and even heal people by touching them.
Take #1: Genie Gold
Since there were no dogs or even canine heads in the game at the time of release, I couldn't create Element Dog as is. So I gave his powers to another character I had created in later versions of the story to be Blue Diamond's love interest. I figured that since she was a human already, she would not learn of the ability to change her own shape right away, and even once she did she would be reluctant to try it for fear of hurting herself. She would also be untrained in hand to hand combat, and reluctant to fight. Her body automatically heals itself and adapts to toxins or other dangers in her environment, as a sort of instinctive defense mechanism, though.
I had already come up with the idea of the genie as the representation of Element Dog's powers (his power comes from a potion which is generated by a magical bottle) so as I thought about what powers a genie would have, I came up with the concept of her as a sort of air elemental. Having learned that she can blend herself into the air around her, and change its form, she can create clouds of smoke and toxins. She can also "reach" through the air to touch enemies or allies, and cause or heal wounds. She can also immobilize foes by using her will to "solidify" their bodies, preventing them from moving. If the target has some kind of super defense, like rock skin, she can weaken it, as well.
And of course, as genies are tricksters, I though of her using the air around her to create shapes and illusions to fool her foes. So she became an Illusion/Radiation Controller. The Radiation was her ability to create toxic clouds, and of course she could also heal and boost her metabolism and that of the allies around her. She really came into her own for me when Power Customization came out, and I was able to make her Illusions and Radiation both a bright gold color. Her powers just look gorgeous, and like they have a common theme, and I really enjoy playing her now. At first, she was really just going to be a team based character I kept around for emergencies, but she's level 30 now and still going.
The shape change I've kept to a minimun, but she often uses a common trick of the original Element Dog, which is turning into a vapor. I figure that fits the genie concept. I gave her Stealth for that power, plus Phase Shift. She can also fly by growing wings, and I tied a keybind to her Flying power so she changes costume when she does. At some point, when she gains an armor power from the Epic pool, I may give her a costume that has like steel skin or reptile scales or something. She is still far too frightened of using her power on her own body and messing up, and also, a little bit vain.
Take #2: Element Beast
When City of Villains came out, and added canine heads and the monsterous legs option, I decided it was time to try a humanoid Element Dog look. I still couldn't make him an actual four legged dog, which was basic to the original character, as he could turn into a human or humanoid, but never felt comfortable that way. I decided to try a "werewolf" look anyway, figuring that Element Dog could choose that form to fit in better with all the other superheroes, returning to his natural dog form when not "at work".
Of course, he had to be a villain, so I had to change his backstory somewhat. Fortunately, I was already working on bringing my main villain, the archrival to my hero characters, to CoV. I had decided to create an "alternate universe", where my villain, Silver Bolt, beat the heroes, leaving only one, Blue Diamond, to continue the fight. Silver Bolt then turned the powers from the defeated heroes to some allies that would be villains like himself.
So I created Element Beast as a dog, but without the friendly advice of my hero characters to guide him, he never developed a human personality, or even learned that he could increase his intelligence. Although he can speak and has a rudimentary level of knowledge (about that of a child) he still has a dog's point of view. He is vicious, and territorial, and really only uses his power to make himself more powerful in combat.
Although he obviously has enough knowledge of his power to transform into a half-human, half-wolf, I figured he would rely more on changing the substance of his body into armor, much like the original ED did, but without changing into other animals or a vapor. So I created him as a Dark Melee/Stone Armor Brute. Dark Melee I chose mainly for the self heal, I wanted him to have as many healing powers as possible. It's a primarily punching set, though, like he's using his claws, and the Dark could be clouds of vapor that he creates around his fists to choke his victims, just out of instinct. Eventually I colored the clouds a sickly gold, to match Genie Gold's concept. His main power, though, is turning his body into stone.
Unfortunately, the character hasn't really appealed to me that much. I stopped playing him around level 8, and then recreated him as a human, named Golden Genie, for another alternate universe twist. He has exactly the same powers, but more insight into his powers, so I use costume changes to make him change his skin into steel. I also created a couple of different costumes for Element Beast, one where he is huge and bulky, and another where he is smaller and slender, but armored. He does not have wings in any of his forms, though, as Flying and Stone Armor don't mix well. Instead, I use teleport to represent him melding into the ground and appearing somewhere else.
Take #3: Element Dog
Next, when the villain options came over to hero side, I decided to create Element Dog proper. I also created a villain version I named Golden Fang. The hero was a Claws/Regen Scrapper, while the villain was a Claws/Regen Stalker. For the hero, I gave him wings all the time, while the villain I used a costume to let him grow wings when he wanted, figuring he would be more stealthy if he didn't have them all the time. The claws, of course, were the dog's claws, while Regen I used as his ability to heal himself, and adapt his body to move faster and resist toxins. The ability to shape change kind of fell to the background, as I decided to concentrate on him using his one form more to fight the bad guys.
Of course, for the Stalker his ability to Hide was his turning into a vapor, while I gave the hero version Stealth for the same reason. Likely I would give him Phase Shift eventually. Unfortunately, while I am really amused by the animation of the Claws Assassin Strike, neither version of the character has gotten really far. I would probably use multiple costumes to create effects like him forming steel or scale armor over his body after using Dull Pain, but neither character has gotten past level 10. So for now those takes, like Element Beast, have been abandoned.
Take #4: Element Dog
Finally, when I hit level 50, I unlocked Kheldians. I had always considered using a Kheldian to represent Genie Gold's ability to shape change, and now that I had canine costume options as well, I decided to go back to the original concept. Element Dog could now be a true shapeshifter, although there would only be two "animals" he could turn into.
I created both a Warshade and a Peacebringer. The Peacebringer was given wings since he had the innate ability to fly, while the Warshade I gave him no wings, and the ability to "sink into the ground" teleport. In the end I decided I liked the Peacebringer version better, and redesigned my Warshade as a side switching villain I named Umbral Unredeemed. Both versions were "dancing" Tri-Forms, as that perfectly fit ED's tactics of changing forms constantly in mid-battle.
ED's ability to heal himself was best represented by the Peacebringer. The Warshade had the better stealth for "vapor form", (and his powers looked more like vapors too) but I went ahead and gave the Peacebringer Stealth, too. I added an "armored" costume which uses various scaled and insectoid chitin body parts to make it look like he used his shape change powers for when he has his physical damage Shield up. He doesn't have the other two shields, but I have a keybind which automatically drops him out of a form, puts up his shield, and changes his costume. Another keybind will switch him back to his "normal" form.
Of course, the humor of the character is that he isn't a Kheldian, he's just imitating their forms. Plus, he's not human in any form, he's a Dwarf, a Nova, or an Earth dog.I got him to level 30 as a Warshade before changing him to Umbral Unredeemed, and my remaining Peacebringer version is something like level 26, and I plan to keep going with him. The only problem I have at this point is that I can't customize his powers to match Genie Gold's. Hopefully eventually I will be abe to, and he will have the same golden light effects for his powers that I love so much for Genie Gold.
Anyway, this is a really long post, but I think it's a good example of a bunch of different techniques you can use to make shape changing. You have Kheldians for actual forms, Stone Armor for changing the material of your skin, and costumes for even more drastic changes. It really just comes down to what you want those different shapes to do. You pick the Power Set that fits the effects of the shapes you want. It's still pretty limited, as you can't turn into ANYTHING, you have to pick from a selection of forms. But honoestly, I don't think there's any way around that in a computer game anyway. -
Yeah, while a Dominator isn't traditionally what you would call the tough, brawny type, the ability to hold down your foes is in itself a form of damage mitigation.
I do have a Dom I like to think of as tough (he's a dragon) but he would probably be TOO tough if he was able to just shrug off damage and control people like that. I settle for just a couple of shields. For one thing, I can turn them on during Domination and say the effect makes him tougher as well. (Plus, you get mez protection with Domination, which is another defensive ability. I won't keep you from taking damage, but it'll keep you from being unable to retailiate to damage, which is somewhat mitigation) -
I believe each attack or control power activated builds the same amount of Domination. So single target vs AoE doesn't matter. Although as mentioned PBAoEs can be fired out of combat, and Snipes can be charged and cancelled.
When in a team, though, the amount of Domination you build depends on the number of teammates. So it does build faster with a large team. -
My advice is to create a bunch of characters of all Archetypes, all 10 of them if you can manage it.
You can usually tell which you like and which cause you problems by level 10 or so. You have plenty of slots, so there's no need not to develop altitis.
The Archetypes in this game are way more flexible than the classes in most other MMOs. You can create Defenders that deal damage, Controllers that get into melee, Scrappers (or Stalkers, Ninjitsu especially) that use control powers, or anything you like. Of course, the Blapper, or Blaster that gets into melee is a common build here that you probably won't see anywhere else.
Just play with it, experiment, and have fun!