Jade_Dragon

Replying back to the OP, I would say that in my experience, Stamina has the largest effect of any of the Fitness powers. But that's mainly because Endurance recovery, itself, is very high. Health raises HP regeneration by a larger percentage, but because base regeneration is low, it's not noticable.

Likewise, Swift isn't really that big a boost in speed, it's only like 10%. No one is going to be darting around like under Speed Boost and blundering into foes. Hurdle is a lot more noticable, you suddenly move a lot faster when you jump, because it's like a 50% boost in jump speed. That could be switched with Sprint, though, so it would boost both jump and run speed by 50%, and then Swift and Hurdle would boost them by 10%.

Y'know, now that I think about it, I wonder if Health is going to keep its resistance to Sleep. I don't suppose it would do any harm, but it seems out of place. The effect was kind of put there because various Status Resistances were put in Pool Powers like Disorient in Aid Self. That would effectively giving that resistance to everyone.

Anyway, the thing is most of the powers are not really that significant until they have been 3 slotted with SOs. "Out of the box", Stamina and Hurdle do provide a noticable change, but not so much that I think "Staminaless builds" will be totally eliminated. Instead you will have "1 slot Stamina builds" and "2 slot Stamina builds" and "3 slot Stamina builds".

Below level 25, coming up with three of the same inspirations to convert is problematic. When you start the game, you only HAVE three slots. For most of the early levels, you have 8. If you save up two of every inspiration in order to ensure the next drop is a third, you will need 16 slots.

So in general, you have to choose a subset of the Inspirations to collect in order to be assured of getting three of them. And you can't use any of them, which pretty much defeats the purpose of having Inspirations. You will use the CaBs, of course, but get no use out of the others unless you want to make it even harder to get threes.

After every fight might be pushing it a little, but I certainly find myself having to Rest a lot in the early levels.

Oh, man, I didn't know this. I've been trying to finish all my arcs before switching sides.

Probably all for the best, as I would have to go Vigilante or Rogue to get to them to finish them. Still, I've spent a lot of time when in some cases I might not have had to.

Hum, does this mean that EATs can continue to take their unique arcs from their Contacts if they "go grey"? VEATs I think get several different Contacts, but HEATs it's always the same one.

I consider it more likely that the Fitness Pool becoming Inherent will open up new possibilities for Masterminds to take advantage of their greater supply of Endurance. Their End costs are very low, but they wil be able to do things like take toggles from the Pool without having to worry about the extra End slot.

I'm talking about that from 1 to 20, an ATs base damage modifier scales from 1.0 to whatever the modifier is for that AT. For an Controller, that's 0.55, so at level 10 a Controller has a base damage modifier of 0.775, and at level 15 it is 0.663.

That's funny. You're saying Rad has more defense than Dark? Even Dark on an MM? I see why you're picking Rad, since MMs can't get it (yet) but it's hardly that much better compared to Dark or Storm.

I was talking about damage, though. So let's talk damage. Controllers get Containment. At its best, that is a 100% boost to damage. Even when Controllers are still getting 0.77 or 0.66 base damage as above. So prior to level 20 Controllers can do a LOT of damage. Even if you assume Containment is only set about 50% of the time.

I was comparing base damage. Inherents introduce a whole new level to the argument. Especially when Controllers are clearly as powerful as they are. (Besides, that really only applies once you start getting APPs, unless you pick up Power Pool attacks, you are in the same situation as a Mastermind with your limited selection of damage dealing powers)

First of all, a Ranged set getting two cone attacks by level 16 is by no means common. Second, the Defender can have AT MOST 5 attacks by that time. The MM can have his third attack by level 8, can have supplemented his attacks with Air Superiority, and use the Vet Reward powers to make up the difference. Of course, the Defender will probably be using the Vet Rewards as well, especially since having only 4 attacks to choose from prior to 16 he probably probably needed to supplement his damage as well. So when it comes to single target damage, the Defender will probably have the edge, but only because of his solo Inherent bonus, and only partially. (Since Sands of Mu and Nemesis staff will not be applying that bonus. They wouldn't be applying Containment for the Controller, either)

Second, except for magnitude of the effects, a /Dark MM would have the SAME Tar Patch, heal and defenses that the Defender has. He won't have Fearsome Stare yet, but the Defender wouldn't yet have Parylizing Gaze. And the Defender is more likely to have skipped something to make room for his attacks.

Prior to 16, the differences are negligible. The Controller will have a few control powers, and hopefully Containment, and the Defender will have about 10% more damage. The debuffs will be a little stronger. (And that will be less of a difference at level 16, too) But the idea that you would somehow be "handicapping" or "gimping" yourself at level 16 is simply not true.

Now, at level 26, or 32, that's a whole different story. By the time you can even get Trip Mine, your Primary attacks won't be doing the job any more. But the idea coming into this was a challenge, and as long as the player faces that with the understanding that he will avoid teaming or use a separate build, that's up to the player.

No, I was really going on the Ember Demon's support powers, although I did wonder how the Hellfire Gargoyle's greater damage emphasis would effect that. I suspect that was by design, the devs were trying to reach a compromise between Protector Bots and Enforcers.

However, I will point out that the Protector Bots have Photon Grenade, and can do damage comparable to the Tier 1s. There are only two of them, but their damage base is higher. (Plus they're a level higher) Of course, you've got to slot them for damage for that, and I prefer to 3 slot them with Defense. That's just me, though, I'm sure others go with a more offensive build.

Probably doesn't compete with the Demons, but Protector Bots are hardly pure support themselves.

Thugs has them beat, but only by a minor amount, and only after 32, where the AoE from Empty Clips comes in. (The Genin do have Exploding Shuriken, but the AI doesn't use it as often) To be perfectly honest, for the vast majority of levels they're tied.

Of course, one thing to keep in mind for Thugs is that the Enforcers give them all a damage bonus (doubled!) past 32. In fact, this could be where a good portion of Demons damage comes from, there is so much -Res flying around that a base damage comparison doesn't really tell the whole story.

First of all, it is EASIER to level a petless Mastermind at low level. Below level 10, you have the same damage as any other AT, and pretty close to the same attacks. Between 10 and 20, you can either fill in with Vet Rewards, if they are available, or go to the Power Pool.

It is a fallacy that Masterminds do not have damage in their attacks. They do, it is comparable to Controllers and Defenders. (And like Controllers and Defenders, that doesn't really start to kick in until 15) They do NOT have that damage if they do not flesh out their selection of attacks, and their attacks DO cost proportionally more End than for any other AT. But if you are willing to take the powers and compensate for the Endurance costs a petless Mastermind is capable of doing enough damage to level.

I haven't played a petless Mastermind since level 12, but I regularly take on Lieutenants and higher with a complete selection of attacks, while the rest of my pets are busy elsewhere. I'm not hurting for damage. If anything, I think it would be the lack of Bodyguard that would break my strategy. But I suspect that the MMs who stay petless past 26 are splitting up the foes and using stealth to take them on one by one.

I'll also note that Traps is one of the few examples that has damage in its Secondary, with Trip Mine. It's also one of the most damaging attacks available to a Mastermind. (And an AoE, which is a big help as well)

Well, that's a little like saying that the Crit rate for Stalkers is 100%, because they can get a 100% Critical every time they Hide or Placate. It's how many attacks come between the Hide or Placate that reduces that rate.

The point is the OVERALL chance of Scourge is going to be considerably lower than 30%. This chance lowers even further when you consider that, in order to have the maximum chance of Scourge, you must be within 10% of the foe being at 0 HP, and most Corruptor attacks will do more than 10% of a minion's HP. Thus, it is more likely the minion will die within 20-30% of 0 HP, when the chance of Scourge is at best around 50%. And that's at maximum, so the overall chance will only be around 16-20%.

And of course as mentioned there are the blasts that do Scourge, but are so far over the foe's remaining HP that the damage is overkill. If the same shot would have killed the foe without Scourge, then the Scourge did not actually change anything.

As mentioned previously in this post, an analysis of Scourge which was once posted on this board concluded the damage bonus was about +7% for a minion, to about +21% for Bosses and AVs.

Well, the thing is, that's not really true. While Nova and Dwarf are complete "out of the box", so to speak, they have a pretty good balance of attacks. In fact, a lot of people swear by going through the 6-12 levels exclusively in Nova form, because with both your Cone and Targetted AoE attacks, you're more powerful than the other ATs that have to wait on those attacks.

More importantly, though, most of the human form powers carry over to the other forms. Basically, any click power, such as Essense Boost, Build Up, Mire, or Eclipse, will continue to run their full duration when you switch forms. You have to switch forms to activate them, but then you can switch back, which is the unique part of playing a Kheldian.

Since the Human form is between Nova and Dwarf in function anyway, you don't really gain anything by staying there. You'll do more damage if you shift to Nova, and be able to take damage and endure mezzes in Dwarf. So by adapting yourself to the best form for the situation, you can accomplish a lot more than sticking to one generic form and muddling through.

Of course, that takes practice, and you've somehow got to divide your slots between all three forms, so in practice usually a Kheldian player will choose to either go Human/Dwarf, Human/Nova, or concentrate on Nova/Dwarf and just have the human form be a collection of utility powers to fire off between forms. And pure Human form is an option as well, although it's a little tougher than going with one of the form builds. (I personally find it somewhat frustrating, particularly in the absense of good mez protection. However, my Human/Dwarf Warshade is currently a primarily Human form, the Dwarf is only there if I get mezzed)

The secret is to use Smoke Flash on the Oni. The Jounin can Hide themselves for their Criticals, but the Oni needs you to give him the crits. Of course, you could Hide one of the Genin, but Fire Breath gives you a little more AoE.

You basically have two types of Mastermind henchmen sets, though. The melee type of henchmen typically start with high damage in the Tier 1s, peaking with the Tier 2 damage, and the Tier 3 typically stands back and has a support role. The Oni and Lich have this in common, although I think the Oni has the edge in damage. They aren't really intended to be the heavy damage dealers for your team, that's what the Tier 2s are for. That way if you lose one of them in melee, the other is still standing.

The ranged type of henchmen are typically the other way around. The damage is fairly moderate in Tier 1, drops in Tier 2, and then becomes massively concentrated in the Tier 3. The Tier 2s typically play the support role, the Protector Bots are purely defensive, while the Spec Ops have a control role, as well as striking from stealth. It's the Commando and the Assault Bot that you concentrate on defending, because they manage most of your damage.

Thugs are kind of an odd compromise. The Punks are weak, weaker than the other Tiers, although in comparison to the other Tier 1s they still deal more damage. The Tier 2s do the majority of the damage, as if they were meleers. But they aren't the ones in melee, the Tier 3 is, whose damage is lower than the Tier 2s, but greater than the Tier 1s. He doesn't really perform the support role, the Tier 2s do, but he's the one the MM wants to concentrate on defending.

It's sounding like Demons fits the ranged pattern, with the Tier 3 doing the most damage. The Tier 2s are obviously defensive in nature, like Bots. But unlike Bots, the damage isn't all concentrated in the Tier 3, or in the Burn patches, it's a little more balanced, like Mercs. Only, they're better defended than Mercs, not concentrating so much on the stealth and control.

You're always going to get trolls and flames on both sides of the argument. You learn to live with it. As for the why, there are many reasons people create petless Masterminds, or MAN builds, or any of the other myriad challenges. The challenge is one reason. Wanting to play a weaker type of "not really super" character is another. Wanting to brag about having played such a character well is another.

I will agree with plainguy, Endurance is going to be your biggest issue. Most MMs don't bother about Endurance since the henchmen do all the work. When the only one to rely on is you, you're going to need to slot heavily for Endurance. Of course, your attacks are not really inefficient, just weak, it's the rest of your powers that are also costing a lot more End. Fortunately, if you want to stay active even if you decide to pick up the pets, the Endurance will still help you. And in I20 Stamina will become Inherent, which will help as well.

As for those who say that you shouldn't even try to use your own attacks when you are between levels 1 and 10, that's just nonsense. Your AT mods haven't kicked in yet, you're just the same as any other AT at that level, give or take. From 10 to 20 you really start to feel the changes, getting to its worst in the late teens. Then again, you wouldn't be doing a lot of damage between 18 and 22 even with all your pets. So that can be a good time to go partial petless.

Beyond that, it's all up to how much challenge you want. Oh, and with dual builds it certainly doesn't have to effect your teammates. You can have one build for fun while soloing, and switch to the other if you get invited to a team.

Good note, although I was talking about secondary effects as a whole across the Set. Like DoT for Fire or Slow for Ice.

I do believe -Res is pretty rare even as a unique effect of a power, though. Piercing Rounds is a good example, but I can't think of any others offhand.

Well, Soul Mastery is redundant with Dark APPs, which Corruptors and Stalkers get, and Mu Mastery is redundant with Electrical APPs, which Corruptors and Masterminds get. Not to mention all the hero APPs which already overlap with Dark or Electricity.

Honestly, if we assume the devs are planning on making the APPs Customizable, while having the Patron Pools keep their graphical thematic link to their Patrons, I don't think there is a problem. Inferno's powers could have its own special "hellfire" graphics, that would differentiate it from a "generic" Fire APP. Plus, I REALLY like the Behemoth summoning. There could even be some unique "signature" powers, like Soul Storm or Electric Shackles.

I like these sets, Inferno and Woodsman especially. My suggestion was to actually double up the Soul Mastery, Mu Mastery and Mace Mastery sets, assigning them on the hero side to Dark Watcher, Synapse and Blue Steel respectively. In the case of Blue Steel, the mace could be replaced by an additional model that added a billy club to the Arachnos Mace selections. Your summons would then be PPD, while Synapse would be associated with Longbow.

The thing is, while the rest of the powers are straightforward, the summons don't really make sense if you have a character who switches sides. You've left Arachnos and gone hero, residing in Paragon City full time, yet you still have access to a Blood Widow or Arachnobot? It would make sense to me, if the technology exists to do this, to switch the pet for an equivalent one from your "new environment".

Behemoths, Tuatha, and Coralax, though, could be found in either area and aren't part of either "side". Behemoths actually are on both sides with the Circle of Thorns. So they could be used as-is, with those three Patrons being unique to their respective sides, while their power is still available to all Alignments.

I think it'll also be faster for the devs to only have to develop two new sets (or even put off developing new hero sets until later) instead of needing to make four new complete Patrons and Sets for them.

In my case, I have a female android character who tends to be very flirtateous for much the same reason. She knows she's a machine, so "nothing can happen".

She's programmed to think of herself as feminine, though, so to her it's more a state of mind than body parts. After all, in reality she is just a computer program, her body is just a temporary shell for operating in the present. So in fact she would probably just laugh and dismiss it as "missing the point" if anyone questioned whether or not she was really a woman.

BTW, I play a Controller who relies primarily on 2 powers from his Primary, and 2 powers from his Secondary. It's called a "MAN" build...