JaZonZ

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<snip>While I've been a very vocal opponent of Tanker Attitude since pre-issue 3 days, I'll be willing to sacrifice myself to test your Rage and Aggro management with Rage 3.0 on Test. <snip>

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Good thing we have non-tankers generous enough to keep stirring us up in forums discussing tanker issues.

(jeez, the sarcasm train is on the move tonight.. WOO WOO!)

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Just some informal research about the claims that the "devs are ignoring tankers."

Since the 1st of this year, Statesman has posted about tankers over 14 different times. Many of those about this rage change either in this thread or in threads on the test server.

Statesman has posted about Blasters once. At the beginning of the Blasters and Burn thread in this forum.

He posted a half dozen or so times in the controller issue thread before it was locked. There have been zero posts specifically about scrappers and defenders. Kheldians got the second most posts, mostly about upcoming changes and how Statesman himself saw the Kheldian AT being played.

So if Statesman and the devs were ignoring Tankers, I guess they just completely forgot that 3 other ATs in the game existed.

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Yeah, I feel really bad for the poor ailing blasters. I sure do wish they were given what they need to be a fair and leveled AT with the rest of us....

I am so just kidding. I love blasters, and as this Rage situations is in flux ... well I hope it is... I've had fun gathering debt with my blaster yet burning it right back off again as quick as can be... that reminds me, need to update my sig.. got me a level on MB. WooT!

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I tried the perma-Rage no crash bug, it got interrupted and I got chain held by Malta and killed before my empath friend could get off one heal. Now, if you did not have your Rage 2.0 cycle cut into, it was quite effective but we knew that it would not stay like that.

For about 2 hours or so, I soloed in PI today after Rage 3.0 went live. And I switched it from 3 recharge SOs back to my old pattern of 2 recharge and 1 To Hit buff SO (Rage is perma with 3 SOs sans Hasten). So it is back to 15 seconds of downtime minimum from 1 Rage to the earliest chance to use it again. The 10 seconds down soloing is not bad, although I am unsure of how well it will be in teams at this time.

As for your toggle-crashes? I am not sure here. I lost no toggles in my multiple uses of it today. I simply watched my end more closely then I used to. -25% end is far more manageable then -100% end, even though yes, the no end loss bug negated that, but we knew that was not going to stay. Now I for one am not doing cartwheels over Rage 3.0, but after experiencing 2.0s total end loss a couple times, I find it far more preferable.

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I think this is a fair point. That comes down to preference and that is fine. You are better with 25% end loss 10 seconds of no attacks. I'd rather have 0% and have my end regenerate up enough for me to act instead of waiting 10 seconds. I feel those are just a matter of preference but I do see your point and why you like 3.0 better than I do.

My main concern and what no one seems to be talking about (though I'm still reading through posts for the last couple of days) ... How is this version of Rage more Casual than using original Rage? My qestion is basd on this post (link)

I will concede that for soloing it might be tolerably "casual". If you lose track of your "egg timer" and you combat is simply just interrupted, only a few things like Sappers and such can really ruin your day as you stand actionless.

However, for teaming it is a huge inconvenience. Tankers seem to function as a steady flow of damage and agro management combined, especially with puch-voke. I've been told by poster to just hit a Taunt before my "egg timer" goes off and I'll hold agro for 5 seconds and only sweat 5 more... Post 40 if people go from 100% health to 0% health it normally happens in less than 5 seconds. I believe this also happens pre 40, but I'm just discussing what I know with the experience I've had with Rage 3.0.

If a tanker plays it perfect we still have an approximate 5 second window of lost agro maneagement ever couple minutes.

I'm still of the belief that this is less convenient, harder to keep track of and less "casual" to play that it ever was before. Unless the devs are just doing a back door "make it situational", I don't understand how it is more a casual to use power. It is now a power we have to monitor closely, especially in groups.

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If 41 is the max...then how can you do this with higher level heroes? We had 2 level 50s in the trial in with a level 38 controller and had some issues. Mainly that we couldn't do damage to the hydra with the particle cannon (despite blowing up the force fields). Is there some kind of safety in effect for this trial? Do all the higher levels need to exemplat down for the duration?

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Though this is a Trial it isn't a Task Force. So it works just like a mission. 38-41 is the range that you can be in and be allowed to get the mission from the contact, after that anyon can join your party. The only restriction after that is the mission is located in the Abandoned Sewers which is a Hazard Zone that requires yo uare 36 to enter.

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I think a big part of why this went live is:

a) They did not get enough data from the test server (this is why I think a lot of stuff goes live and then gets tweaked), especially the aggro retention in the 10 second down period. I know that except for Tanker night, the test server is pretty empty.

b) It's a ton better then Rage 2.0, so even if people dislike Rage 3.0, it's vastly superior to Rage 2.0. And they wanted to get a better Rage live, even as an intermediate step.

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IF you are someone with 5 or 6 slotted hasten, and you have 2 slots in Rage, and you have access to SO enhancements, the overlapping of Rage 2.0 kept endurance from dropping. Technically, I feel that a small exploit kept the power playable until devs made a better decision about Rage.

Even if one did not choose to use the exploit, I personally would rather use 5 seconds to back up from a fight to turn toggles back on and gain enough endurance to throw my next punch than stand for 10 seconds without any action.

I want this poster to know I think these opinions are well thought out and viable, but I just don't agree with them. I personally don't consider 3.0 superior at all. I don't think 2.0 was good either, but 3.0 is not much safer and much more difficult to work with.

I definitely have a strong opinion in that I believe this falls VERY short of a fix for the problems Statesman verbalizes here.

3.0's current endurance drop still drops toggles a lot, and the 10 second wait is annoying, a slowing of damage output and simply diverts the danger to teammates that likes the tanks tanking.

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"Oh you just haven't seen good anime."

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The last good anime was Star Blazers.

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i hope thats a joke

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Even if it was a joke, it is hard to argue with.. in some repecs.

DERAILMENT: Neon Genesis Evangelion..... mmmm mmmm.. Yay original ending, not the new endings made for people yelling about not feeling closure.., A definite competitor with old faves of my like Starblazers.

RAILMENT: And to weigh in. I'm fine with Anime costume additives and I have a feeling for those wo do not like Anime theme there will be a good numbers of items that you can use to compliment your non-Anime design. If there is anyone on the dev team that I trust, its the design department (as in the art and object and model design).

This is certainly not a game buster issue like major power changes. It should still be enjoyable. Beside, they are releasing this internationally, and perhaps this kind of thing will keep it popular on a lot of markets... Larger Market, more stuff, more bulk, lower prices?????? we can hope, or at least more stuff for your buck which is fine too.

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Current comment from Statesman is found here.

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btw, thanks for that link. My prior post was not aimed at you. It was aimed Statesman. I really appreciate you pointing that post out.

My general point is that Invul/Unstoppable, and now SS/Rage have both been handled in a way that was very inconvenient for me the paying the customer.

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Current comment from Statesman is found here.

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this is all and good, but with Dev Digest not updating right, why didn't he repost in the string he started... ....... GGGrRRR Rage Rising!!!!!... wait, nah forget it now i'm tuckered.

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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasn’t getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!

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I just want to report in and let you know that over the last 2 nights (about 3 hours of play) of FORCED live server play testing, I have confirmed that yes indeed, the zeroing out of endurance is MUCH more difficult to play. I've died once in that three hours, I've had bail outs from teammates multiple other times since this has gone live. All due to toggle drops from the endurance drop in the middle of a fight. Each time a villain with a mezz attack will disorient me or hold me and then kill me a slowly or as quickly as they want.

This doesn't feel very casual to me... oh, and before someone tells me it is a mistake or that it had to go through to get the other updates out or send me towards the post from Statesman that says he doesn't like this, FIRST point me towards the Dev post that explains why it went live at all. Also, one that explains why I have to stop using a key power for 2 days, just to be safe especially when this was the original change to make is safer in the first place. Please Please Please show me why so I can stop looking at how much I'm paying for this game per month and questioning my decision to do so.

Coupled with the Unstoppable change, and no respec for a week after that went live, I'm going on 2 weeks of not being able to play my main. Can I get a $5 credit or something because this is silly? Don't worry folks I already know the answer to that question.

I guess I'll go buy a couple of recharge redux and replace my ToHit buffs with those for a while and hope to use the overlapping Rage exploit to keep my end from dropping.... boy, I'm glad they made Rage much less power gamer.....

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Mittens, LOL. I'm curious as to your build just to see how some other players are doing it, doesnt mean I'll change mine, being stubborn like I am I'm convinced I have a good build.... And thank you very much for the links.

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I recently stripped a slot out of Hasten to put somewhere else and to lengthen the time between Hasten enduced Endurance drops to levle out my endurance... I implied in a post earlier I had 6 slotted hasten. I just wanted to make it clear that was a very recent change on my part.

All damage type except Lethal/Smashing (and except Psi of course) land somewhere between 80 and 90 percent with white enahancements if I have Unyielding on. If I turn Temp Invul on I have about 92% Lethal/Smashing (have math written down somewhere. This is my best guess)

As you can see Rage is important to my build, thus why I'm on this thread discussing it.

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Defense : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Melee : Super Strength
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Temp Invulnerability /DamRes
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Jab /Dmg
Slot[03] Level 2 : Punch /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[04] Level 4 : Dull Pain(Inv) /EndRdx,Heal
Slot[05] Level 6 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[06] Level 8 : Unyielding Stance /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[07] Level 10 : Haymaker /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[08] Level 12 : Resist Elements /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health /Heal
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Resist Physical Damage /DamRes,DamRes
Slot[14] Level 24 : Knockout Blow /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[15] Level 26 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Rage /Rchg,HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf
Slot[17] Level 30 : Resist Energies /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[18] Level 32 : Invincibility /EndRdx,DefBuf
Slot[19] Level 35 : Taunt /Rng
Slot[20] Level 38 : Foot Stomp /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx,EndRdx,Dmg

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<snip> i bet i can hit +10's when i pick up Focused Accuracy. LOL....

I have no ACC's in any attacks because of rage and invincibility.

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I felt so adequately accurate that The Pirate King actually went Pyre at 41.. I figured pirates like to play with gun powder and justified it for my character. I can't wait to get Fireball and do a Macro that says "Give 'em a broad side, Matie!!!"

Oops I digress... I don't like rage as is, changes it back! I want my drunken sailor pirate!!!

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I'd lke to know when to stop socketing my defensive powers for one.


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I have some info for you.

This damage reduction and defense info is wonderful and seems accurate in practice.

This Calculator is nice too.

I usually calculate everything based on white enchancements. I set my enhancement level, character level and enemy level all at 40, so I'm always ok at white enh time, better at green and not so bad when they go yellow.

Together they make it really easy to approach yet not exceed your resistance caps too much... Though I have heard that exceeding resistance caps isn't all bad. If your resistance is ever debuffed, it will take into account your excess.

If you are interested in my Invul build which I used these tools to make, I'll be happy to post it for you, though I don't like to push my builds on people.

EDIT: because I forgot to take off my winter mittens before typing this apparently. Silly type-o's

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well when picking it up at 28, i would use it situationally until you get to 29 when you can add slots to it. A casual gamer should be able to grasp this concept as they have lvl'd 28 times already...and at each lvl they are adding enhancements to improve their powers...

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This assumes they have hasten and its 6 slotted. And yes I know a couple of level 38s that don't use hasten. Sure I think they are nuts but they do it.

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Im 47 and I do not have Hasten. It is totally wrong for my concept and I have no desire to lose end suddenly. That is a big part of the reason I dislike the test Rage that went live. I used to use Rage when it was a stun very rarely until I found out about Uy cancelling it. Then I used it more but not all the time.

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I applaud the not using Hasten by the way.. I've actually considered dropping it since I don't need it for perma-unstop anymore. Haven't quite found an attack chain I like yet, however this Rage thing might mess up any chance of that happening for various concept reasons.

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Now on to the accuracy. I realise it takes accuracy enhancments but if the powers description doesnt say it increases accuracy (like Build up for example) How do you know what to believe ? Maybe its another error that it takes the enhancments. And how much of a bonus does this give ? or maybe you can stear me to a sight that lists power bonuses and % caps, I'd lke to know when to stop socketing my defensive powers for one.

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I edited a post of mine 1 or 2 back with my "testimony" on ToHit buffs in that power.. check it out, its interesting stuff. I totally rely on it for Acc.

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well when picking it up at 28, i would use it situationally until you get to 29 when you can add slots to it. A casual gamer should be able to grasp this concept as they have lvl'd 28 times already...and at each lvl they are adding enhancements to improve their powers...

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This assumes they have hasten and its 6 slotted. And yes I know a couple of level 38s that don't use hasten. Sure I think they are nuts but they do it.

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Rage is just a damage buff, looks like a roughly 30% increase and once it wears off it gives you a defense penalty and a 100% endurance drop.

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it's an 80% increase to your base damage.

It is also a buff to your acc. I don't know the numbers for acc.

2 To hit buffs in rage and 2 to hit buffs in invinciblity you can hit MOGd PP's that con purple.

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I just went and tested it with out rage I hit a grey con mob for 668.9 and with rage for 854.62 and a green con mob without rage 491.6 and with rage for 628.09 this isnt an 80% increase and the power says nothing about an accuracy increase in its description. (All tests where done useing knockout blow on mobs that where same level minions of the same gang type)

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I don't know if he is right but he said an 80% increase in 'base' damage, not enhanced damage. You could try deleting all your damage enhancements out and punching someone with and without rage. I'm at work or I'd go check it on test. Someone, DO MY BIDDING!

EDIT: as for the ToHit Buff. I have no hard core numbers but with 4 SO ToHit buffs in it and no ACC enhancements in my attack and NOT using Invincibility, I'm able to hit most +5s consistently. If I had to slap an estimate I have about 75% acc or more with most +2 and +3s. I can even hit +6 and +7 regularly enough to defeat them, if I pop on my single slotted Invincibiliy (and it just has an end redux in it)

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accept when you first get it at level 28, that isn't possible. And if they don't want it to ever have a penalty, then they should just make it never have a penalty. This is hardly a solution for the non-power gamers, as they claim it was... It doesn't matter, they are going to change it and probably make it worse... Doom, Dispair and Agony on me Whoa!!

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Most key powers need more than 1 slot in the game to be useful...hardly a power gamer tactic....

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agreed to a certain extent (though I have quite a list of powers I consider 'key' that are just fine with 1 slot), but I hope you aren't shadowing my point and you see it's still valid. Not sure why they would do this just to encourage people to overlap Rage. Multi slotting that power for other reason (endurance, ToHit Buffs) is not power gaming, specifically perma-hasten, combined with exactly 2 recycle redux for the exact purpose to overlap so as to not experience endurance drop, I think is advanced planning... that isn't casual gaming. Why make it more complex when their goal is to make it easier on casual players.. this whole think just stinks the more I think it out.

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Rage is just a damage buff,<snip>

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Not just damage, and a ToHit Buff which I like ... dang.. why did I have to point out another positive about Rage.. now it will get taken away too.... Doom, Dispair and Agony on me! WHoa!

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RAGE IS FINE!...

why is everyone whining?

No more disorient....and

uh....if you have perma rage your end doesn't drop.

2 Recharges in Rage....
6 Recharges in Hasten...

and you are good to go.

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.. accept when you first get it at level 28, that isn't possible. And if they don't want it to ever have a penalty, then they should just make it never have a penalty. This is hardly a solution for the non-power gamers, as they claim it was... It doesn't matter, they are going to change it and probably make it worse... Doom, Dispair and Agony on me Whoa!!

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<snip> Some day I want to be able to arrest things by actually knocking them out, instead of standing there waiting for them to bruise themselves to death on me, or beat me until THEY pass out from sheer exhaustion.

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Ok, if I could have a power that makes people exhaust themselves to defeat trying to beat me up... I would have a perma-smile on my face while playing my tank. Bah perma-unstopp, I want Perma-exhaust

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Since States specifically said the end drop was too harsh, it's pretty obvious that they are working out something else, and that this going live is a mistake or a temporary slide along with the other changes. Especially since if you just make it perma- the penalty does not even happen after first time per zone. You never lose end on subsequent crashes. It was like that on test and it went live like that. Any Rage users reading this thread please realize that if you can afford 3 recharge SOs or have Hasten and can make Rage perma- via that route, you can ignore the Rage crash after the first one per zone, baring being slowed at a bad time. If you cannot then be very careful when you use it, until they fix this.

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I have Hasten 6 slotted and a single recharge SO in Rage and that has me perma and I still dropped 5 times on one mission last night before I hung up the power to wait out the fix.

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This is odd, since so many have has the same results of the no crash. The only thing I can think of for your situation is some other condition you have occuring that is causing it to make it drop, when it is not for many of us. I do mean another power is making it drop, but that a certain combo of effects is making it check for the drop for you. The devs should have a new test version out soon for us to try. Until then we have to make due.

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I have the same situation however, I'm 41 so I have some yellow and white recycle reduc so my hasten is just shy of perma right now and as a result, I think Rage is the same.. So the drops are probably as a result of not quite perma but close. Make all them reducs green and maybe it would work. I am not planning to do that till 42... (so close)... however I hope this change is reversed before then.

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To jazonz

I see what you are saying I would reply more indepth but i am kinda winded since i got my new job (I wanna play CoH not spend the rest of the day making an Adequete post). I will be better and more descriptive on the weekends.

I think I am lucky I never built my tank to revolve around Invincibilty or Unstoppable which yes i do have different ideas. The main issues I have with Unstop is its supposed to be the penultimate power yet you have groups like Malta that can Stun you out of Unstoppable. We tanks stay quiet way too ofter because for most ATs damage is Damage. The big problem is the higher lvl you get the more prevelent Psionics becomes. The truth is Invul Tanks are still good after I3 but I do not think Psionics should be so Prevelant. I think some of the High Lvl Villian groups need to be retooled and I do not mind if say for example a Stone Tank is better for fighting against a certain Villian Group while an Invul is better against another.

For Rage I think its penalty needs to be reduced but I do not think it it should lose its bonus to accuracy and damage. Rage should stay the same in its gains but drop the stun penalty. I will state i do not mind losing Perma status for Rage. It should not be that big of a deal that when rage drops you might have to wait an addition 8-10 seconds to pop it again. Perma status can be cheese in all honesty and I think many players should look to Viable solutions other then heavily rely on Perma powers. I do not rely on Perma Powers infact I think Dull Pain Sucks a Perma power and I preferred slotting it with Health Enhancers(I healed so fast with 6 health enhancers that I was not noticing damage).

I actaully thought about how Rage could actaully take Hitpoints away from us as penalty aka Energy Transfer but a little more stiff.

We tanks sit back and let the Dev "nerf" us and all we say is "This underated and Useless power is okay it does not need change" . For example we won a major victory with Invincibility (Invince need to be toned down) as we complained about the I3 change and now we are getting a better revamped Invincibilty. I think we should complain more about how SS should have lessened End Cost and how powers like Hurl should be changed as Hurl is useless aswell (maybe Increased Base Range and Damage?). SS needs a lot of changes and we need to stop being quite and tell the devs we want a balanced SS.

As for the idea of no Change....There will be new Issues that will change us anyway. Like it or not I3 was good in many ways as it gave us combined Toggles and a better Unyielding (A tank could always get stunned out of Invincible and Unyielding Stance Sucked). I will gladly pay the price of having to manage my Endurance if my Health is not a concern.

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I see your piont. I think we have difference in focus not a difference in opinion.

I would like to point out that having that zero-ed out Endurance drop hit live, confirmed my 'trust of devs' concern that I voiced in Steel's and my earlier conversation. It may be a mistake, or perhaps they did not want to remove it so they could get all the other good changes out for DA stackagble armor and such. I'm all for that. I just wish they had warned us it was going live for a couple days and they would bechanging it back instead of silence and board downage and still no response. Hopefully statesman is true to his word and that it will be changed. I'm still bracing for the subsequent change to be undesireable.

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I was just on live and ran rage a couple of times and it looks like it's only a 90 to 95% drop in end, not 100. This is something that I can live with as an Invul/SS tank. It allows me to keep my teammates alive if I watch what I am doing and keep trak of time(now if I could only wear a watch that won't clash with my tights). Anyways, I thought I would post this, if any one else has different resault, let us know please.

....And thank you for you surport.

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I ran around for a bit last night. Rage dropped on me about 30 times. Only 1 time was I able to keep 1 out of 2 toggles running, probably because a well timed tick. All other times the 2 toggles i normally run would drop completely. I ran a 'standing still doing nothing' test 3 times. Just with 1 endurance cost Temp Invul running. On those three Rage drops, TI dropped every time. I also have the Accolade that gives me an extra 5 endurance. I still drop all the way to zero.

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You're a bit off base, and apparently not looking hard enough. Statesman said in response to the unpermastoppable issue that this was NOT a move by them to make the SS set weaker, it was a move by them to restore BALANCE to the SS set because <drumroll!!> powers like unstoppable were never meant to be used perma, and because people were, their toons were much more powerful than they should have been.

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Oh you forgot your <rimshot>. I think you might want to go back and read that thread again. It dealt with players dropping a majority of their powers and just keeping unstoppable. Super Strength was not addressed as being unbalanced. It was Invuln tankers that was being looked at. Granted lots of folks have Invuln / Super Strength tankers.


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I've seen a couple people discussing this and though I do not feel the burden of proof since I didn't start this conversation in the first place, I feel a burden because my memory is pretty good on this subject. (Statesman posts only date back to 1/10 when I searched by his name, so anything he said is gone on this subject. If someone can find it please share the link.)

Statesman specified that Unstoppable should not be an unending supply of endurance for little risk. And that it made most other powers in the set obsolete. He felt it gave a clear advantage to Invul over other sets because of the endurance and the awesome amount of damage resistance it provided. He also admitted that Invul changes "brought us in line" with the rest of the tanks and scraps. (whether you agree or disagree with the changes, it doesn't matter. That is what he said and I hope he posts here and corrects me if I'm wrong but I do remember fairly clearly)

He never said click powers were not meant to be perma. He only specified Unstoppable as never meant to be perma.

Unstoppable was changed in a way that I did not agree with but I don't think the way it was changed should justify similar changes to Rage.

The first poster quoted above .. and I quote "...Statesman said in response to the unpermastoppable issue that this was NOT a move by them to make the SS set weaker, it was a move by them to restore BALANCE to the SS set..."

As I recall, Statesman made no mention of Unstoppable being an SS related situation. No matter what your secondary, Unstoppable provided extreme protection and nice endurance production. In fact, having Unyielding be able to cover one's stun needs when Rage goes off is actually a counter to that belief. (even though I realize it makes Rage a little more dangerous since we have toggles to deal with these days)

Now to my opinion. Ultimately the endurance issue and the near bullet proof status protection is what was taken away with the change to Unstoppable. This trickled down to slowing damage output as a result of slotting more end reduction and/or running toggles.

It is nothing less or nothing more than that. I did not like how it was handled. I believe it was a suprise change and a build breaker for a good number of people (scrappers and tankers). However, I won't agree that Statesman ever said that all click powers should be changed and I don't think it is appropriate to stir that kind of support to unperma click powers across the board based on claims of what Statesman said that can't be proven because forum server cleaning erased them.

This response isn't to argue, just to clarify.

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..When does a tank ever have to Pop rage? Why haven't any of the Rage supporters answered this question?

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I use the power Rage whenever it is available (which is near perma). I have 1 recyc reduc and 4 ToHit buffs in this power. All attack powers (6 slotted) are 1 end reduc and the rest damage. I pop on my single slotted Invincibility if I have trouble hitting. I can defeat some +7 Lieus over a long period of fighting but I normally only fight +2 and +3s for efficient XP...

If Rage is changed to a toggle or an endurance penalty drop at the end like Hasten I will drop Rage as a power. Hasten is already dipping into my valuable endurance resources along with my new dependance on toggle.

With Rage I can solo more quickly because of higher damage output and in a group I do not use it if there are mezzers around. I use Invincibiliy to supplement in ToHit buff which is just enough to hit reasonable often and helps me keep agro in groups (along with new Taunt and punch-voke).

I think my above tactics are reasonable and allows my tank to be tolerable soloing and still be a agro machine in a group.

If I felt forced into dropping Rage, I would sacrifice 1 damage enh per power for Acc thus reducing my damage. This would be the second damage enhancement loss per power for my main. First dam enh loss was as a result of tweeks to Invul.

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Why should the Defender on my team have to devote himself to covering the Rage tank because the Rage tank wants to be selfish and outdo the Scrappers?

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I do not outdo or even keep up with either of the 2 regen scrappers I knock around with, with or without Rage. See above tactics for my answer to teaming concerns. Also, I dropped Unstoppable also to keep from being "selfish" or more accurately, inconsiderate really. Dodging out of a fight ever 3+ minutes is annoying but I think you would probably agree with me on that if I'm reading your responses correctly.
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That weakens the team when the defender has to devote his attention to ONE CHARACTER because that said Tank wants to use Rage.

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If a player expects a defender's 'finger on the triggle' and aiming always at them, that is rudenss problem, I agree. A more conservative play style mode as I mentioned above should be used. I will usually talk to a defender before using it. If they don't mind keeping an eye on me, why not use it as a valid tactic? Out of the last 3 Defenders I played with all were happy to still get useage out of powers such as Clear Mind.

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Yes we do and currently Haste is a far superior power that leads the question why do we need Rage? Yes Rage is a choice and currently a horrible choice.

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Hasten is very good. I have that as well. Rage along with and 1 recharge reduc is alwasy on. I will just have to disagree with it being 'horrible' here. That's fine. I really think that it is still more preference. My only hard data is that at level 41 I can do missions on Invincible difficulty or fight +3 hunting and get a bubble (1/10 a level) an hour easily solo. A little better than that teamed (only using Rage occassionally). Not the hardest data but I'm satisfied with that XP rate.

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I'm just asking to please leave that choice available and don't change Rage.

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Why? Its already broken why does it need to stay broken? As it stands the Devs will think the current rage is either A.) a power with a penalty that can be mitagted by Hardcore players trying to make it work or B.) needs fixing and badly so to be more appealing and appropriet 7th tier power.

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After the invul changes, I have a trust problem with the devs. I am worried the Rage changes will either cost it's perma-ability or cost me more endurance. These are both unacceptible. If you think "fixing" it equals leaving it alone but removing the stun penalty, then I'm on your side. Maybe making it cost 5 more enduarance to activate on top of that, I'm still with you... anything else is a grey area.

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Rage needs to be changed and why are you so afraid of the changes when we have a say? If it can be made better is it not worth it? By the way I am not trying to be rude and i do not want to give you the impression i am trying to discredit you or anything. This is an online RPG and with that you should get used totweaking and retweaking characters. Its NORMAL (unfortantly) and its a part of the game and if you do not like it do not play RPGs as its worse in the Paper and Pencil format.

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As I stated above. I'm worried about what changes dev will make. My trust of them is low after many hours leveling an Invul tank to spend about 6/10 of a level (about 6 hours if you get my reference) of my time or more testing changes and testing final builds to take live, after the infamous invul 'tweeks'.

As for credibilty. I'm not too worried how I appear to others based on responses to my posts in these forums. Anonymity is good like that.... But since it came up, I have the following creditials to offer, though I doubt my mentioning it really matters. I've played pen and paper RPG for 17+ years, just recently quit because of time constraints. (all spare time goes into playing CoH with my wife or doing something responsibly and adult like.. bleh) Actually my main tank is based on a fairly recent Champions character of mine, loosely. I've played multiplayer games (not massive multiplayer) for about 3 years or so. This is my first Massive Multiplayer.

I'm sure you are right that lots of changes happen. Though not a MMP, updates were made in Age of Mythology that completely changed my staple civ builds in that game. I adjusted. I can adjust here, but I only have patience for so much testing while I pay the bills. Likely this will be my first and only MMP... actually this whole experience has made me rethink online gaming as a whole and what I personally would tolerate. Hate to leave my post on a sour note but that is not aimed at anyone. Just not very satisfied with online gaming of late. Dissappointment in PC game releases last year have been disheartening. CoH was a breath of fresh air, however, some of the recent changes I've seen and experienced can hardly be classified as tweeks and have borderline ruined the game for me. This is not grandstanding for I plan to try to muscle through to 50 just to have a "completion" of sorts, however if many more tweeks happen I won't be completing the game I started so 'completion' has no point which equals me quitting.